GUys, I was hit lightly when I was younger. If I did something wrong my mom would hit me hard enough for me to feel it but nothing abusive. It really depends on the strength and force they use. Obviously, dragging the child or strangling or even slapping forcefully is horrible, but let's not say that hitting is necessarily bad. (the old fashion way, the mother has a ruler in hand and says to the child "Now give me your hand...")
I don't think anyone said hitting was bad. I was spanked as a child, and I don't think it was a bad manner of discipline. The bad thing is when the parents cross that line from discipline to abuse. Some adults just can't seem to remember that what may feel like a light tap to a 150-pound adult could practically become a debilitating punch to a 30-pound child! I don't have any children yet, but when I do, I'm sure I'll slap a hand or pat a bottom a few times, but never hard enough to do any harm. My mother used to spank us at home, so when we were in public, all she had to do was threaten to do so, and we would shape up right quick
My neice has corner "time outs" as punishment most of the time, but some situations just require a more direct and immediate response, so she's been slapped on the hand and such at times, and she's a fabulous kid. When she was 4, she used to have this habit of head-butting people (not like running head-first into them, but just standing or sitting near them and leaning forward and bouncing her head on them). It was cute when she was little, but the older she got, the more painful it became! She was also getting to be just the right height so that if she was standing facing her father, a head-butt could easily drop him to the floor in the fetal position, if you catch my drift. One day, we were shopping, and she was sitting in the front of the shopping cart. Well, my sister was pushing the cart, and my neice did the head-butt thing and hit my sister in the chest, so my sister hit her in the forehead (certainly not hard enough to do any damage, just a little slap). She certainly didn't like being hit, so she stopped head-butting people right then and there. They had yelled at her countless times to stop doing it before, but that one smack on the forehead was all it took to make her stop for good
I agree with Jilly, there is definitely a line between discipline and child abuse. The sad part about rampant child abuse is that many people are afraid to discipline their kids at all and then others that think violence will keep their kids in line or whatever it is that they think and that's part of the problem in todays classrooms. I feel for children's teachers even though mine are grown up.
I often feel I should stay out of spanking discussions because of my unconventional views on the subject, but since some people have already expressed their views here, I think I can too. I think I represent the "other" side.
I am 100% against hitting a child under any circumstance. Period.
My son has never, ever been hit, spanked, slapped, smacked whatever (except playful smacks -- I'm talking about hitting as a form of discipline or expressing disapproval). Our reasoning was, when you spank a child, you teach them that it's ok to hit people when they do things that displease you. So, we made a vow when we married that if we ever had kids, we would use alternative methods of teaching discipline.
He is now a mature, healthy, good-natured teenager. He never went through the 2- and 3-year-old hitting phase so many kids do, and I think it's because he never learned to use hitting as a form of expression.
We did lots of time out, removal and talk. Lots of talk. We still do the talk discipline (sometimes it drives him crazy! )
Both my husband and I were spanked (but not abused by any means) as kids and we just felt that wasn't the way we wanted to raise our child. We wanted to try something different. I think we were successful -- our kid is proof.
It really hurts me to see children hit, even if it is just a "light smack on the bottom or hand".
Good for you. You can also advocate for the child directly to the mother when you see something like that going on. See http://www.nospank.net for all kinds of information on why it is never OK to hit a child.
Lulu, thank you SO much for that site. I have bookmarked it and will be returning to read it all. I never even knew there was such a site.
I've often been made to believe that I'm too namby-pamby for not spanking. That's one reason I tend to not reveal my views on it much any more, in person or online. I've always felt as if I was in a very small minority and been made to feel that those of us who don't spank are trying to be "holier-than-thou".
It wasn't an uncomfortable enough feeling to make me reverse my views or actions, though.
I was spanked...when I deserved it. And it wasn't done out of anger. But that guide you posted Lulu...it makes it sound like ALL spanking is terrible violent abuse and that every kid who is ever spanked will become another Hitler...or worse.
I don't agree with extremism. If someone doesn't want to spank their child, that's up to them. If I want to spank mine, that too should be up to me. What happened in this instance wasn't spanking, but yes...I'd call it abuse. But there are also those who want to involve the police when a parent is trying to get control of their child in a public place and gives them a light swat on the bottom. And that's just too extreme for my tastes.
I've often been made to believe that I'm too namby-pamby for not spanking. That's one reason I tend to not reveal my views on it much any more, in person or online. I've always felt as if I was in a very small minority and been made to feel that those of us who don't spank are trying to be "holier-than-thou".
I think you did an excellent job of stating your opinion without alienating those who DO believe in spanking. You're absolutely entitled to your views, and I think it's important for both sides to understand the other--whether they agree with the other or not, understanding is important, IMO. I would never say anything negative to someone who doesn't believe in spanking--they're entitled to that opinion. Just because I do believe in it (not as a SOLE source of discipline, mind you, but at times) doesn't mean I think EVERY parent should feel the same way
I agree that repeated slaps to the face, really hard spankings, etc. are really wrong.
I was spanked as a child, but to this day I tell my parents that it never did any good. Hitting me really wasn't much of a punishment, because the pain goes away in a couple seconds and then I was off to make mischief again. What really worked for me were all the time-outs. I HATED to be made to stand in a corner for 5 minutes. I would stand there crying and whining the entire time because I hated it so much. I almost never repeated what I did to get time-outs.
But I think there ARE some kids that will not respond to anything but physical punishment. The problem is when the parents cross the line into abuse. I have an uncle with 6 kids and he (last I'd seen/heard) would spank them VERY hard, repeatedly. Often he would leave welts on their bottoms/legs. I was so young when I saw it happen, though, that I could never speak up. Just horrible.
I was smacked as a child and it didn't work - I was a little monster. I decided I wouldn't smack my daughter but use time out and discussion. Despite my good intentions I actually did feel it necessary to smack her on the hand on three separate occasions when she was young and kept on doing something which was potentially dangerous that could kill her.
She's now nearly 28 and we both remember all those three occasions. She's fine about it and says she thinks a smack was about the only thing that would have made her take notice of me. Its me that is left with the feeling I should have handled it differently (although I'm not sure how!)
The government here in the UK is trying to get it made illegal for parents to smack their children. I think they are worried about the fine line between chastisement and abuse but there is a lot of opposition to the proposal mainly because it is said that the most serious abuse happens in the home where there aren't any witnesses.
you guys, in the summer while I was in NYC I was on the train. Some woman sitting across me hit her child hard and let him dangle by the wrists. The child was crying and then a man approached her and said "Ma'am, I'm a child advocate from [insert some government dpeartment here], and I believe what you're doing is wrong. This is not the way to treat your child."
The funny part was, after the women said "Let me teach my grandchild, okay?" back to the mean, the kid screams at the man, "Dont yell at my grandma-ma! SHe a nice lady!" Funny thing was, no one even cared to say anything else. The train was packed but no one was going to approach her for hitting her child.
That just shows how much no one really cares on the subway! I wouldn't interfere either, only because I know discipline is different within parents.
It's scarey to approach people on the subway. You never know who has a knife or gun or who is going to follow you out shouting obsenities in your face or threatening to beat you up because you got into their business.
I've been lucky so far in that I've never seen a child being abused. I did see a bunch of rowdy teenagers start pushing an older man around. I did go and push the button to talk with the driver. He had a policeperson waiting at the next stop. He got on and the teenagers ran off.
I was spanked as a child, but to this day I tell my parents that it never did any good. Hitting me really wasn't much of a punishment, because the pain goes away in a couple seconds and then I was off to make mischief again.
Haha, I was just the opposite! My parents would put me in the corner or send me to my room (we didn't have toys or anything in our rooms because my mother ran a day care out of our home when we were little, so we had a "play room" where we kept all toys), and it did NOTHING because I would just sit there and do my time and then go and do whatever it was I was doing again. With a swat on the bottom, on the other hand, I felt physical pain and did not wish to repeat that pain, so it taught me to stop doing that (just like spraying water in a dog's face--it's an uncomfortable feeling, and that discomfort becomes associated with the bad behavior).
I guess it just goes to show that it's not only the parents who choose different methods, but also the children who respond differently to different methods.
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