[EagleRiverDee]

Warning: this is a vent!

I went home at lunch today, and as usual my 17 year old step-son was still in bed. This kid has never had a job, and has everything handed to him on a silver platter. Not by me. By his Dad, his mom, and his grand parents. He's a nice kid, but he's incredibly lazy and doesn't help around the house at all. Every time he wants money, his Dad hands it over. I'm frustrated, because in my belief the job of a parent is to raise kids to be productive members of society. Ensure they get an education, and learn respect and manners, and develop a work ethic so that when they become adults and enter the work force they have the skillsets necessary to succeed. In my opinion, my DH is not making this happen. His oldest son began doing drugs at 15, and my DH was in total denial and wrote it off as a phase. That son is now 22 and still doing drugs, has failed most of his college courses (which my DH shells out endless money for despite the fact that the kids' college fund is running out) and works at a pizza joint because they don't drug test, and we own the place he lives in and rent it to him at a subsidized rate. The younger boy doesn't do drugs but he's just so lazy that I can only envision that he's going to end up living at home in the basement until he's 30. He's got no ambition, and no shame about the fact that he doesn't lift a finger around the house. He always has an excuse. He doesn't work during the school year because of his studies and his sports. I'm actually fine with that, I think those are fine reasons. But in the summer last year he didn't work because early in the year he sliced his foot open and was in a walking boot most of the summer. So despite the fact that it didn't seem to stop him from doing anything else he wanted to do, it apparently crippled his job hunt efforts. This summer he doesn't have an excuse. My DH chalks it up to "he's insecure" (BS! This kid is one of the most self-assured social kids I know. He's lazy!) and "he's just being a teenager" (same excuse he made about the older boy and his drugs).

I am so frustrated. I feel like these kids have both been utterly failed by parents that have enabled them and made them feel entitled. I have almost zero say, as it was impressed on me early in the relationship that the "kids have a mom and don't need another" but this is simply not how I was raised. I was raised with a work ethic and if I wasn't working my parents found plenty of work for me to do around the house. I'm very worried that neither of these kids is ever going to grow up and stop using us for money. My DH doesn't seem to feel the way I do- he makes excuses constantly for both boys' failings and only does something about it if I finally lose my patience and blow up.

Which is what happened today. Up until now, I've made a few comments about how I felt that getting a job was an important thing for the 17 year old to do, to learn a bit of work ethic and get some job experience and to earn some spending money instead of always hitting up his father. My DH finally told him this week to get a haircut and go out and apply for some jobs. So far, the haircut hasn't happened. The boy has every excuse for why he can't get a job and frankly I suspect he's not actually applying or he's sabotaging his applications in some fashion. When I went home for lunch today, he was still sleeping soundly and I just lost it. I pounded on his door and told him to get his butt out of bed and go get a da** job. Then I called my DH and basically vented on him and told him that so far as I was concerned either his son gets a job or he gets a chore list every day that he has to complete. The problem is that even if my DH agrees, it's always temporary. He will enforce something for a little bit and then just let it go.

We've been together 12 years. This isn't something I want to end the relationship over by any means. But I want some sort of means to effect some actual change here. I just have this terrible fear that we're never going to be able to retire because neither of these kids is ever going to grow up and act like an adult and that they're just going to leach off of us indefinitely- and I know my DH will let them do it.

And the thing is, it's not the kids I have to find a way to get through to. It's my DH. So long as he's willing to enable the boys, there is nothing that will change.

What do I do?

[seagirl]

Do you do his laundry or buy food or cook for him? Stop all of those things. If his father wants to enable him, that's one thing. But if he asks you where his clean clothes are or where his plate at dinner is you can just say "you are an adult and can do these things for yourself or pitch in."

Stop all attempts to convince him to be a worthwhile member of society. It won't work and will just annoy you.

Then take up the practice of meditation. Seriously.

[EagleRiverDee]

Originally Posted by seagirl

Do you do his laundry or buy food or cook for him? Stop all of those things. If his father wants to enable him, that's one thing. But if he asks you where his clean clothes are or where his plate at dinner is you can just say "you are an adult and can do these things for yourself or pitch in."

Stop all attempts to convince him to be a worthwhile member of society. It won't work and will just annoy you.

Then take up the practice of meditation. Seriously.

I don't do his laundry, clean his room or any of that. I do cook for him when I cook for us. I have actually thought of stopping that but I know the result would be an angry husband who would then cook something for him instead and so I'd have marital problems and no change in behavior from the step-son. I might try it anyway, though, with some advance warning to them both.

Yes, deep breaths and meditation is probably a good thing.

[serendipity907]

If he has been brought up this way then I wouldn't blame the son so much. Maybe having a proper talk to him about why you want him to have a job/do chores/have a better routine and see why he is reluctant to do it.

I suspect it's not purely laziness and is probably part insecurity. He has been raised to be lazy and hasn't been pushed out into the world-That's not exactly a trait which breeds confidence imo.

I'd definitely try and not get angry with anyone about it-Just approach the son and offer to maybe help him get started looking for jobs or check his CV etc.

[ANewCreation]

I suggest that you find a peaceful time, when you've calmed down , and explain to your husband that you can not continue living this way. Then simply ask him to go to counseling with you. If you can find someone to help navigate these troubled waters then you will gain some coping skills and your husband may very likely be open to doing something different because the advice will be coming from a neutral party.

It's cheaper than a divorce and could save not only your marriage but your financial future as well.

I wish you the best of luck.

[usmcvet]

Counseling sounds like the only answer.

[RandomPaige]

As being a child of remarried parents, I can see how difficult this can be. Theres always a transition of some sort in which teens see their parent's sig other as a disciplinarian and not just "dad's girlfriend"

I support the counselling, as certainly your DH needs to see eye to eye with you in order for this process to succeed. It sounds like your DH hasn't exactly put you in an easy position. You don't have to "mother" the teenager, but he needs to respect the fact its your household as well.

If at all possible, I'd see if you can set aside some time to have a serious conversation with your DH without distractions. Have you explained to him how it makes you feel when he says that his son "has a mother"? I would hope he could see that you want his son to succeed and build the confidence one gets from the onset of their developing a sense of independence. I remember the first time I went out to dinner with a friend and didn't have to have my parents pay for me. It felt phenomenal. My parents, while they were watchful, couldn't really tell me what to do with the money I made on my own.

Thats really how we all start to manage and appreciate our money.

You might try suggesting that if the teenager doesn't want to get a job, perhaps he can volunteer or start taking on more household chores initially. I think once he realizes how much working for free bites, he'll turn around.

As being the youngest, I think my parents were the hardest on me. The week of my 16th birthday I was out applying everywhere. I also knew that if I wanted gas money, movie money, etc I had to work for it on my own.

What are his interests? Is it possible he could find a job somewhere that suits his interests? My brother started part-time at the batting cages as he loved baseball.

It certainly will be tough. My parents fought (and still fight occasionally) about

[daniprice]

I've worked with teens most of my life, even when I was one. I don't know. I am thinking back to the teen version of myself. When did the school year end for him? It is June. Did it end so long ago? I was always exhausted when the school year ends, especially when I had lots of after-school activities. I would need some recharge time and teens tend to need that. Is he a good student? How are his grades?

I think your step-son will be more likely to inspiration, than shaming. You may have expectations based on how you were raised but that has little to do with him. Sounds like his dad needs to step in and find ways that your step-son can have both a productive and enjoyable summer. I do think a little recharging is good. Is he starting to look into college yet? Does he have standardized tests to prepare for. Are there summer jobs he would have fun with? Could you make the conversation with your husband less about saying negative things about his son and more about the things your step-son needs to do to look good on a college application or to build employment history. Maybe if you take a more constructive positive approach with your husband he will want to boost his son up instead of just trying to defend him.

[sontaikle]

When I was a teen my parents could have hounded me for hours to get a job and I probably wouldn't have. I needed a fire set under me--in the form of not having money.

If I wanted things (go out with my friends, buy video games, etc.) I would have to pay for it. My parents refused to give me anything.

My teenage brother put it best recently: "I don't like working, but I like having money."

I didn't even have a "real" job until I was 18 and done with high school, but I did lots of odd jobs to get money prior to that. 17 year olds don't generally need a whole lot of money, so perhaps there are friends or neighbors who need work done?

[Glory87]

The summer after my freshman year in college, I was staying with my dad and my stepmom in Florida. My stepmom, god bless her, said "okay, today we're going to go apply for jobs!" And so she drove me to the local movie theater, local clothing shops and finally to Busch Gardens where I got an amazing job for the summer. I found out I really liked earning money and I've been a workaholic ever since.

[EagleRiverDee]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will try to re-approach this from a different angle with both my DH and my step-son using your advice.

[RandomPaige]

Good luck Dee

[GlamourGirl827]

Hmm. I would agree that all cash flow in his dierection needs to be stoppped(of course that means your DH agreeing to this). This included gas money, cell phone ect.)
I really feel for you as I have no patience for teens / young adults that grow up getting their parents to pay for everything. I fortunately/unfortunately grew up in a very poor (welfare, section 8) home through my early/ late teens. My mother was a single mother, and there was no option to ask her for money. I hate to say this, but she was lazy herself. Back then is wasn't work fair, she just stayed home living off the government. To this day she's lazy and married a crappy guy with enough money for her to leach.
Honestly, my first job I was 15 and most of the time she would take my pay at the end of the week for bills and food, so it wasn't like these kids that has jobs to buy nice things while their parents still pay for their meeds like shelter and food.
I worked all year round, school was not an excuse not to work. I left home at 19, and my bf (not DH) came from the same situation, and moved in with me when he was 18. Honestly, our parents couldn't afford us nor really had the room for us. (Not together I mean seperately) so we did the adult hing and moved out. We've never been give help. We worked and went to school. None of our parents gave us a dime. They could becaue they were poor themselves.
But you know what, we are both college educated, sucessful adults that learned how to manage money and be responsible. We are now upper middle class home owners (my nor his parents ever owned! I actually lived in motels and shelters at times growing up) We had no choice but to be responsible, unless we wanted to live on the street. I know nearly no parent would even think of throwing their kids (well 18 year old minimum) on the street, but let me tell you, the laziest kid will usually get his act together when faced with being homeless/ without food ect.

My cousin had the life your step son has. She is 28, has 3 kids. Their credit is dead, rom charging up cards, never paying. Her mom buys their groceries, gives them money for bills. Her husband's mom gives them moeny when they need it, pays for their gas money. Their children have no insurance because his job doesn't offer it. She has said recently that her mom is going to pay for the kids to have private health insurance. They spend their money on expensive furniture, while the have bill collections places calling them all day. Honesly, I'd say about 30- 40% of their income is from the parents! And yet she keeps having kids, and has no shame about this. She goes out and gets drunk and has her mom drive her to and from the bars. She also had an affair for a few years (she told me this herself) and would bring the other man to her mom's house so her husband didn't find out. She operates on the assumption that the world owes her eveything and she should not have to work for it. She doesn't work actually. She's barely ever held a job. And someday when her mom dies...she going to be so incredibley screwed.
As a parent, I believe our job (I have 2 kids) is to raise our kids to live well after we are gone. They shouldn't need us (financially, I get emotionally is different) as an adult.
Good luck.

[Justwant2Bhealthy]

There seems to be two schools of thought on this subject ~

1) Some people believe that they should support their kids financially until they are 18 or 21 years old, esp if they are still in school. They think that their kids shouldn't have to work until they are finished school as well (and that includes paying for all their post-secondary expenses as well).

2) The others are like yourself (and me too) who were raised (out of necessity and/or belief) that they should have to earn their own way and/or at the very least, contribute to their spending money & post-secondary schooling.

The worst of it is when the two opposites get together, like you and your SO. This causes serious conflict. My sister went through the exact same thing. One daughter felt she shouldn't have to work or contribute (just like her Dad believed) and so she didn't.

The other sister agreed with her Mom and helped out (esp after Dad moved out on his own; as he didn't feel like being married or responsible any more -- surprised?) He was spoiled rotten by a doting mother (of an irresponsible, wandering & unfaithful father); all the boys left their wives (twice).

Sadly, the #1 kind of parents, just hand kids money -- so they don't learn the need or responsibility of earning money for later on in life. Some do OK, but some fail miserably as you have heard here.

I guess you need a quiet talk with your SO to discuss the difference in your belief systems. Maybe you can come up with a compromise, i.e. like a small chore list (clean his own room, do his own laundry, take out the garbage, cut the grass, etc). We were raised that we had to do chores for our spending money becuz when you grow up, you have to work for your money (it was considered a kind of practice).

Some would say that becuz he is a step-son, that you should leave the end results up to his parents (esp his father, in this case), but that doesn't mean that you can't express how you feel with his father. Although, it sounds like you have had a hand in raising them.

My parents did let us have a couple of weeks each summer to do fun things (at the beginning and end of summer break). We were able to do our sports and clubs; plus take trips if we wanted to as well (i.e. go to the CNE or concerts, etc). Of course, we had to pay for that ourselves but they would give us rides and such.

Two of my siblings did not work; they were very shy and refused (both saying that was our parents job). Interesting, eh; but they both grew up to be hard-working people (one good with money; one not). The other four of us all worked willingly as we needed the money just to have decent clothes (all hard-working: two good with money; two not). Btw, I started working at only 12 years old, which is too young, in my opinion.

Counselling may help, but you may be able to sort it out on your own. Be forewarned: some counsellors believe teens shouldn't have to work either. Just food for thought; hope it helps in some way. I agree: try not to let this stress you out too much ...

[EZMONEY]

DEE there isn't really anything I could add to the advice you already have but I will share with you the way I grew up and what I passed on to my kids and maybe there is something of help in that.

But first remember...the child has to WANT to work, for a job to be of value to them...as a kid and as an adult. There has to go goals and rewards of some type....growth...achievement.

My dad worked a lot in construction while I was a kid. He had to! He had 4 kids and a stay at home wife (which most of them were back then ) When I was about 8 years old he started taking me to the job on Saturdays about once a month. Usually on days when it would be a short one. He would have me pick up drywall scrap, sweep the floors, and push him around on his scaffold sometimes...and sometimes he would have another employee with him that brought his boy and we would play! He would usually give me $3-5 for the day, which would always go towards a toy that I wanted. The deal was this...

if I earned 1/2 of it, then he would pay the rest.

I remember wanting a special ball glove for Little League. Now under normal circumstances he would buy that but the glove I had was fine, so the same deal was made. I think the glove was $30 way back in 1965, a very nice Rico Carty glove. Because I earned 1/2 of it, over several week-ends, I always cherished it! As you can see, over 40 years later I still remember it

As years went on I was required to go with him every month or so...for two reasons...one to teach me to work and why we do it and two, to spend time with me. Things I really didn't know until I got older.

When I was in 7th grade I was able to work every week-end and summer/Christmas/Easter vacations for the guy that did clean-up for my dad's company. I got $1 and hour. I would make $60 a week in the summer. Do you know how much stuff a 13 year old kid making $60 a week back in 1967? A LOT!! I had my own mini-bike, $$ in a savings account, could buy ANYTHING I wanted at the local 7-11! or as we had back then Speedee Mart

Now I am talking a loooong time ago but I was able to buy any motorcycle I wanted pretty much (ones suited for my age) because I had the $$$. I bought my first car in 1969, a barely used 1967 Ford Mustang, when I was 15 1/2. I bought my first home when I was 19 years old and already owned 1/2 a tri-plex with my dad.

I worked a lot, maybe too much...every day after school, every school holiday break, etc. I still managed to have girl friends and buddies...went to the high school games etc.

When my kids were little they always had a job. First it was putting toys away, then minor chores. All for zero pay. One had to do this because they were part of the family. My ex and I rewarded them for good report cards with dinner at their favorite restaurant (which was always ours anyway ) They never got any $$$ for their grades...school work was they job and they knew it from an early age.

As they got older and wanted more stuff, we gave them additional chores to do to earn money. We always had the do these chores to live in our home that were for free and always had those sweep the patio, clean the garage chores for extra $$$. As they got older we gave them a small allowance, $10-$20 a week for doing their chores. But then we never bought them anything! They had to earn it or hope that when Christmas or birthdays came around they would either get what they wanted or enough $$$ to buy it....which is usually what happened, they have a lot of close relatives

We didn't make them work during the school year as they always played year round sports, right through college...were in scouts/dance/church youth groups and school teams. However, once they were in high school if they wanted extra money besides the $20 they better find a job!

My son would go to work with me or my cousin doing labor work in his early high school and my daughter always worked at our church summer day camps as an aide for $$. Eventually my son started working at the local sporting goods store which gave him all the $$$ he needed, along with going back to the high schools and coaching, right through college and his teaching credential.

My daughter worked not only at the church summer day camps but as a waitress at a 50's Diner and as a"day care sitter" for a well known local resort during her high school summers. She was actually offered several full-time jobs to be child care providers for some very wealthy people...she had other dreams for employment though

Those rules were my rules and my kids grew up with them. It was always expected and never a problem...

now then my step-d and my nephew who came to live with me are a different animal

Step-d's daddy has a lot of $$$...he never made her do anything for work....that is beneath him and his daughter. Easily said when your own mom and dad busted their butts and made a ton of $$$ then died and left it to you in the will....

I won't go into detail, we had a lot of issues in the past but we have gotten past them. We are best buddies now! And she has learned that, now that she is in the real world and daddy doesn't give her anything, she has to work. Her college degree means nothing if she doesn't apply herself! She is doing a great job of that now...making $12 an hour as a vet receptionist and walking dogs on the side for extra $$$. She has learned to value the rewards of working.

Nephew the same way...once he got in the NAVY and realized he had to work to get anywhere things started working out. He is 21 and an E5...a few years ago he was a disaster...expecting $$$ just cause he wanted it...which he got from his mom...but not Uncle Gary

Bottom line...the house is mine...the bedrooms are mine...the food is mine...the shower...water...couch...TV....all of it is mine (and Angie's)...we allow you to use it....

nothing of value in life is free...(well, at least in THIS world )

My son is 31 and just finished his 6th year of teaching high school history and being the schools track coach. A school of 2,500 students. My daughter joined the company she did her honors project with in college and has just finished her 6th year there...they paid for her to earn her Master's...both are doing well. My step-d is well on her way and nephew, after earning E5 is considering the NAVY as a career.

DEE, there is always hope and always a chance to turn things around. Find out what works for you in your family dynamics. But to be honest, if your husband and the ex-wife are not on board, you just may be supporting the boys for a long time...

Several of the guys that work for me, and a couple of relatives, ahve adult children living with them...eating their food, sleeping in....no jobs....

but have cell phones, i-pods, etc....

mom and dad just keep on payin'

although some do GROW out of it...my step-d and nephew did,

Good luck