General Diet Plans and Questions - So about this low/no carb thing..




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Doxy
08-19-2013, 09:13 PM
I've done some reading online about my body shape.

I have an apple shaped female body, also known as Androgenic. Luckily, this fat is much easier to get rid of than the fat of a pear shaped woman. On the downside, the fat is much more dangerous. I gain weight like a man would gain wait, mostly in my face and stomach. My thighs are a bit chubby, but I definitely look like I have a beer belly and wouldn't be surprised if people often thought I was pregnant after a large meal.

Anyways, from what I've read I should cut out carbs. Dammit! That means all the "good" stuff is gone! It makes it really hard having to eat meat and vegetables all the time. What can I do? Should I be going to calorie counting route instead? I just don't know! I also thrive on routine, would it be beneficial to eat the same things every Monday, Tuesday and so on? Like a weekly meal plan?

Anyone with a similar body type feel free to post any advice you have. Can I have a cheat day where I can eat carbs? Are some carbs good? I'm so lost! I'm not sure if I put this in the right spot or not, either. Sorry!


Annik
08-19-2013, 09:26 PM
I am doing the Ideal Protein diet -- one of the many different styles of low carb/moderate protein diets.

I thought that I would really struggle without the carbs. But if truth be told, I have fewer hunger pangs, a lot more mental clarity, generally feel happier ... for me it has been a form of liberation.

The object of low carb is to get your body into a state of ketosis (google ketogenic nutrition or ketosis). It takes a few days to get there but once you are through the door, the programme works for you.

'Cheating' throws your system out of ketosis... in other words it really defeats the purpose.

Through staying on track, this way of eating has done more good for me than any other way before. Although I won't be in 'phase 1' forever, I am working on adopting the concepts as part of my lifestyle.

Hope this helps!

Doxy
08-19-2013, 09:34 PM
I should mention I don't really have the money to do any fancy diet things where you have to have the meals delivered, etc.

I have the money to get groceries from the store and that's really it.


skelley331
08-19-2013, 09:53 PM
You best option would be to follow the Atkins Way, go to atkins.com and you can buy everything from the store, and you eat low carb, vegetables, fruits. There are 4 phases and it's free.

Electro
08-19-2013, 10:01 PM
I do dukan and have been very successful on it, never hungry, foods available from the supermarket etc. The book is helpful, but you can get the lists of allowed foods online easily, there are no supplements or special foods except oat bran that you need and it has a plan to follow through to stabilizing your weight loss.

After the first few days my energy levels went up, bloods are good and strangely my pear shaped body has tamed itself into being curvy but proportional for the first time ever! Oh and no loose skin yet!

Matisse
08-19-2013, 10:11 PM
Or calorie-count and still eat carbs, although in lesser proportions than usual. I eat around 30 % of my caloric intake in proteins and I do not feel hunger much.

Studies which have matched proteins intake have seen very little difference between low-carb or low-fat.

With minor variation (maybe a pound or two here or there), any differences in the total amount of weight loss or the composition of the weight lost (again this assumes adequate protein intake in the first place) are very minor. Rather, the majority (easiliy 90% or more) of the change can be attributed directly to the caloric intake of the diet. Macronutrient composition makes a tiny, approaching negligble difference.


http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html

I would not trust the claims of "eating according to your body shape", but I would trust caloric balance. That's good and proven science.

Doxy
08-19-2013, 10:22 PM
Or calorie-count and still eat carbs, although in lesser proportions than usual. I eat around 30 % of my caloric intake in proteins and I do not feel hunger much.

Studies which have matched proteins intake have seen very little difference between low-carb or low-fat.


I would not trust the claims of "eating according to your body shape", but I would trust caloric balance. That's good and proven science.

Well, like I said I've done a lot of reading on the subject. My body accumulates a different kind of fat completely than a pear shaped woman. The fat my body accumulates is called Visceral fat, and there are easier and harder ways to get rid of it. A diet that works for a pear shaped woman wont necessarily work the same way for me.

Anyways, low carb and calorie counting sounds like a lot of work. Eggggh, I wish I could just find a diet that I can more easily stick to. It seems like there's carbs everywhere I look...

I should also mention I don't live alone so I can't always control what sort of food is in the fridge and pantry.

Jacqui_D
08-19-2013, 10:38 PM
I am pear-shaped, although in recent years, I have put on belly fat. I am sort of following the Slow Carb Diet. Here's a thread I began a few weeks ago when I started this diet: http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/other-reduced-carb-diets/285287-slow-carb-diet.html. It explains what I'm doing. The reason I switched from calorie-counting to low carb is because of the insulin issues in my family and my own sensitivity to carbs. The diet has been really easy for me, I have a cheat day each week, and I've lost 14 lbs in a month, and that's the most I've lost in 4 years.

mariposssa
08-20-2013, 01:16 AM
Chris Powell from Extreme Makeover Weightloss has a low carb, carb cycling plan. He does have a book that came out and he has a lot of information on his website about carb cycling. With cycling plans you have days where you eat lower carb, but the next day you can eat more carbs. I have been doing a similar plan for about a year. The thing I really like about this plan is that I can always tell myself that tomorrow I can have that fruit, dark chocolate or reward meal. Here is a link to his site. http://chrispowell.com/carb-cycling-101/

MauiKai
08-20-2013, 07:07 AM
Doxy, this book has 2 super easy, very well laid out diets in it: http://www.amazon.com/Curves-Fitness-Weight-Management-Program/dp/B0022SRGGE/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1376996695&sr=8-5&keywords=curves+book

One is higher carb, one lower. I always thought it was like "dieting for dummies" and requires very little prep or thought into getting a good diet going.

Wannabeskinny
08-20-2013, 07:38 AM
Well, like I said I've done a lot of reading on the subject. My body accumulates a different kind of fat completely than a pear shaped woman. The fat my body accumulates is called Visceral fat, and there are easier and harder ways to get rid of it. A diet that works for a pear shaped woman wont necessarily work the same way for me.

Anyways, low carb and calorie counting sounds like a lot of work. Eggggh, I wish I could just find a diet that I can more easily stick to. It seems like there's carbs everywhere I look...

I should also mention I don't live alone so I can't always control what sort of food is in the fridge and pantry.

Any shape is going to encounter difficulties. One is not "better" than the other and certainly do not require a different type of diet, I don't buy that at all. We are all humans, and eating has to do with the right stuff going in. That's all.

There's a world of difference between a no-carb diet and a low-carb diet. I wouldn't do a no-carb diet if you paid me a million dollars. Not that it's not a valid diet, it's just not right for me and no-carbs makes me just as crazy and miserable as a full-carb diet.

Being healthy is about eating good food, fresh food, not too many carbs, not too many fats, mostly vegetables and good fruits, some lean proteins and you're good to go. Portion size is the most important element of all of this. I use a combination of paleo-style eating, avoiding wheat 90% of the time, eating within a calorie range, and avoiding all sugar. I also do IF, and avoid snacking. Each of these is a diet method, but I've combined parts of all of them that work for me, and by doing this I'm able to stick to it. I prefer to call it a strategy rather than a diet.

You say you like routine. A lot of people find success in eating the same breakfast and same lunch every single day. This way you don't have to "think" about what you're going to eat and as long as those meals are nutritious then you shouldn't have a problem. I pretty much eat salad with grilled chicken or tuna every single day for lunch.

Annik
08-20-2013, 08:01 AM
Studies which have matched proteins intake have seen very little difference between low-carb or low-fat.



http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/is-a-calorie-a-calorie.html

I would not trust the claims of "eating according to your body shape", but I would trust caloric balance. That's good and proven science.

Good and proven science?

Thermodynamic Edge For Low Carbohydrate Diets: SUNY Downstate Researchers Say All Calories Are NOT Alike

In a paper published in Nutrition Journal (Open Access, available without subscription at http://www.nutritionj.com/home), two researchers from SUNY Downstate Medical Center show that low carbohydrate, high protein diets can be expected to be more effective than low fat diets, going against long standing prejudice of the nutritional community, which has claimed that only calories count.

(PRWEB) July 31, 2004 -- “There are numerous examples of low carbohydrate diets being more effective than low fat diets with the same number of calories. It doesn’t always happen but it can happen,” said Dr. Richard Feinman of the Department of Biochemistry. “The nutritional establishment has been reluctant to accept this, because they say it violates the law of thermodynamics. However, they never seriously look at the thermodynamics, which not only says its possible, but it is to be expected.” he added.

In their paper, Dr. Feinman and Dr. Eugene J. Fine explain that thermodynamics is as much about efficiency as it is about energy conservation. Carbohydrate is an efficient fuel, whereas protein is not. On a low carbohydrate/high protein diet, even though total energy is conserved, more energy is wasted as heat, a process known as thermogenesis. This energy comes from burning fat.

The researchers stress that “the human body is not a storage locker. It is a machine and the efficiency of the machine is controlled by hormones and enzymes. Carbohydrates increase insulin and other hormones that regulate enzymes, leading to storage rather than burning of fat.”

“Of course, people are different” said the authors, “but many people are sensitive to the effects of carbohydrates and for them, a low carb diet is going to work well.”

The practical point is that getting rid of the idea that “a calorie is a calorie” opens the door for serious research into what kind of diets will be most effective and which people will benefit most. “This is important,” they explain “because millions of people are seriously trying to lose weight on low carbohydrate diets, and instead of being given directions on the best way to do this, they have been largely discouraged by health professionals and self-appointed expert groups. The obesity epidemic is too important to allow this to happen.”

Note to editors/reporters: You can read the entire scientific paper by going to http://www.nutritionj.com/home and clicking on “Provisional PDF” at the bottom of the headline.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb145415.htm
__________________

nelie
08-20-2013, 08:44 AM
Good and proven science?

Thermodynamic Edge For Low Carbohydrate Diets: SUNY Downstate Researchers Say All Calories Are NOT Alike

In a paper published in Nutrition Journal (Open Access, available without subscription at http://www.nutritionj.com/home), two researchers from SUNY Downstate Medical Center show that low carbohydrate, high protein diets can be expected to be more effective than low fat diets, going against long standing prejudice of the nutritional community, which has claimed that only calories count.

(PRWEB) July 31, 2004 -- “There are numerous examples of low carbohydrate diets being more effective than low fat diets with the same number of calories. It doesn’t always happen but it can happen,” said Dr. Richard Feinman of the Department of Biochemistry. “The nutritional establishment has been reluctant to accept this, because they say it violates the law of thermodynamics. However, they never seriously look at the thermodynamics, which not only says its possible, but it is to be expected.” he added.

In their paper, Dr. Feinman and Dr. Eugene J. Fine explain that thermodynamics is as much about efficiency as it is about energy conservation. Carbohydrate is an efficient fuel, whereas protein is not. On a low carbohydrate/high protein diet, even though total energy is conserved, more energy is wasted as heat, a process known as thermogenesis. This energy comes from burning fat.

The researchers stress that “the human body is not a storage locker. It is a machine and the efficiency of the machine is controlled by hormones and enzymes. Carbohydrates increase insulin and other hormones that regulate enzymes, leading to storage rather than burning of fat.”

“Of course, people are different” said the authors, “but many people are sensitive to the effects of carbohydrates and for them, a low carb diet is going to work well.”

The practical point is that getting rid of the idea that “a calorie is a calorie” opens the door for serious research into what kind of diets will be most effective and which people will benefit most. “This is important,” they explain “because millions of people are seriously trying to lose weight on low carbohydrate diets, and instead of being given directions on the best way to do this, they have been largely discouraged by health professionals and self-appointed expert groups. The obesity epidemic is too important to allow this to happen.”

Note to editors/reporters: You can read the entire scientific paper by going to http://www.nutritionj.com/home and clicking on “Provisional PDF” at the bottom of the headline.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb145415.htm
__________________


The difference in diets is really small, I'd rely on reading through some of the pubmed stuff from NIH versus a press release for a single study.

Basically, a lot of the studies show that in the short term low carb diets show a bigger scale loss (not necessarily fat loss) but in the long term, it evens out. What is more, is that the low carb diets tend to have fewer participants who stick through it in the long term. So if you want to lose fat, eat less, move more and find something that works best for you. If you have trouble sticking with low carb, then tweak it as in the long term, the studies show it doesn't matter.

Annik
08-20-2013, 09:05 AM
The difference in diets is really small, I'd rely on reading through some of the pubmed stuff from NIH versus a press release for a single study.

Basically, a lot of the studies show that in the short term low carb diets show a bigger scale loss (not necessarily fat loss) but in the long term, it evens out. What is more, is that the low carb diets tend to have fewer participants who stick through it in the long term. So if you want to lose fat, eat less, move more and find something that works best for you. If you have trouble sticking with low carb, then tweak it as in the long term, the studies show it doesn't matter.

This has not been my experience. For one thing, superior satiety with low carb/moderate protein (hands down!) means it is easier to stick to this way of nutrition.

I could share many more studies but this is a forum!

One of the best books I've seen -- written by a group of scientists -- is The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living (Volek and Phinney, et al)

The nutritional establishment -- like any establishment -- is resistant to new ideas.

nelie
08-20-2013, 09:25 AM
This has not been my experience. For one thing, superior satiety with low carb/moderate protein (hands down!) means it is easier to stick to this way of nutrition.

I could share many more studies but this is a forum!

One of the best books I've seen -- written by a group of scientists -- is The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living (Volek and Phinney, et al)

The nutritional establishment -- like any establishment -- is resistant to new ideas.

Well low carb isn't a new idea, it has been around for at least 40 years but I think what we've seen on this forum is people use a variety of ways to lose weight and maintain their weight.

Annik
08-20-2013, 09:39 AM
Well low carb isn't a new idea, it has been around for at least 40 years but I think what we've seen on this forum is people use a variety of ways to lose weight and maintain their weight.

40 years is not a long time in terms of changing the establishment!

I agree that people use a variety of ways and I am not advocating low carb for everyone.

But for those who struggle with insulin resistance, it is a far superior way to go.

Hands down. I have been through calorie counting and weight watchers countless times.

Low carb is the first time ever that I am having excellent results, a high level of satiety, improved mental clarity, more energy, and I can actually see this way of eating as being sustainable in the long term, ie for life.

No other method has opened these kinds of doors for me.

Weight loss is not a one size fits all. You have said it yourself! There are a variety of ways.

Garnet2727
08-20-2013, 10:39 AM
I'm a different sort of critter. When I've tried to go low carb, I've gotten ill. I experienced low energy, headaches, body aches and my personality...well, let's just say that calling me a witch on wheels would be kind. I never lasted long on low carb.

I started my most recent weight loss effort with Weight Watchers online and even though I'm still using their tools, my main focus now is counting calories. I'm happy with what I've accomplished even though my weight loss has slowed down quite a bit this year.

Different strokes for different folks. Each person has to find their own sweet spot. My sweet spot includes carbs.

Annik
08-20-2013, 10:49 AM
Garnet,

That experience is quite common... side effects that come with withdrawal process from sugars... one of the most addictive substances in the world today!

For some people, that can last a while. I think ordinarily it takes a few days for the withdrawal to complete.

Here is a recent article about sugar addiction: 5 Clues You are Addicted to Sugar
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/sugar-addiction_b_3502807.html)
Annik

Garnet2727
08-20-2013, 12:06 PM
Very interesting article, Annik. Thank you for posting it. In addition to WW online, I also use My Fitness Pal and I generally stay below 32 grams of sugar a day. A real eye opener for me personally was spaghetti sauce! Like the article mentioned, Prego spaghetti sauce is just loaded with sugar.

I tried low carbing on Atkins for a solid month and never got past feeling really ill. The body aches, head ache, brain fog and er, spending a significant amount of time on the toilet, never went away. I was miserable all the time. I lost almost 20 pounds that month but gained it right back, and then some, after abandoning that approach. Of course, I would have gained weight regardless of any diet I'd tried and failed at because my response to that was to self-flagellate and eat mass amounts of really unhealthy food.

mariposssa
08-20-2013, 02:18 PM
I think one of the big problems is that people think of low carb in terms of Atkins or trying to eliminate carbs. There is such a thing as moderate carbs. You can limit carbs instead of trying to eliminate them. If you go that route the "induction flu" that was mentioned above is much less severe and the ability to stay on plan increases. Most people naturally eat less calories on lower carbs because the meat, green veggies, and healthy fats keep you feeling full longer.

Buffinlovin
08-20-2013, 02:36 PM
I would think that the best diet for you would be the one that fits closest to your own lifestyle now. If you like carbs, I wouldn't say cut them out completely, as you may just build up resentment, which tends to increase the urge to binge (kind of like the scenario where mom tells you not to eat the cookie, so really all you want to do is eat the cookie).

Calorie counting sounds like it would be a good jumping off point for you...apps like LoseIt, Myfitnesspal (which are completely free online, or on smartphones, Ipods, Ipads, Android devices, etc), and many others will also track things like carbs, sugars, protein, etc. and you can tweak what you eat to lower or increase those intakes. They have a built in database of food so you don't manually have to figure things out (unless you have your own recipe, but they even have a recipe calculator to find out the calories for the whole dish and each serving).

I use Myfitnesspal, and keep an eye on the macro-nutrient intakes. I know through trial and error that I am sensitive to sodium. I've lowered my carb intake to about 50-125g, which actually was unintentional until I realized that higher carb foods had higher calories, so I avoided them so I could eat more lol! I monitored my own body's reactions to what I ate, and have found a balance that works for me and that I can maintain long-term.

I do still have days where I don't count calories (usually holidays or big get-togethers), but I don't let myself go all out with eating whatever I want. I still try to maintain portions similar to what I eat now, but I loosen the reins and allow myself to enjoy what I'm eating. I'm going to have to do that at maintenance anyways.

There is no one diet that works better than others, no matter body shape, weight, size, etc. I agree with Wannabeskinny on this one, I don't think a particular diet will have more effect on one body shape over the other. I had originally thought I was apple-shaped because when I was at my heaviest, I had what I like to think of as the pregnancy belly (I'm not pregnant). As I'm losing weight, I'm noticing the weight around my hips and thighs are staying the same while my torso is thinning out, so I actually think I'm more pear-shaped or brick-shaped.

Creativian
08-20-2013, 02:42 PM
Just to be clear, not all "carbs" are the same. Vegetables, beans, rice, and doughnuts all fall into the category of "carbs" but have different effects on your health. The worst are refined carbs like sugar and white bread. Find out what works for you. Maybe it will be enough to cut out just the white bread and sugar. If that doesn't work, try cutting down on the grains and potatoes. Some diabetics may have to go as far as cutting out the sweeter fruits. It depends on how healthy or damaged your metabolism is.

Annik
08-20-2013, 03:45 PM
I think one of the big problems is that people think of low carb in terms of Atkins or trying to eliminate carbs. There is such a thing as moderate carbs. You can limit carbs instead of trying to eliminate them. If you go that route the "induction flu" that was mentioned above is much less severe and the ability to stay on plan increases. Most people naturally eat less calories on lower carbs because the meat, green veggies, and healthy fats keep you feeling full longer.

Maripossa,

I have never tried the Atkins diet so can't speak for it. I am doing Ideal Protein and if you follow the protocol, used their foods, etc, you end up eating about 40 carbs per day. (Because of the cost factor, many people choose not to do the IP food packets and use alternatives instead. It can be done once you understand how the programme works.)

Also, if you follow the IP protocol, you don't have to track your carbs. The programme naturally does it for you. Out of interests sake, I do track my daily carbs. I average about 30 a day.

Contrast this to when I have tried to lose weight by counting calories: a 6 inch roast chicken subway sandwich with 320 calories would easily have been a meal on counting calories. But it has 47 carbs so for Phase 1 of the diet, it is off the list.

The diet also involves balancing the alkalyne/acid content of the body. Most of the food that is recommended in Phase 1 leans to being alkalyne.

And not all veggies are freebies. Many vegetables -- particularly root vegetables -- are high in carbs and sugars, so they are off the list.

Despite what seems like limitations, the programme really has been liberation for me for precisely the reason that you mention: 'the meat, green veggies, and healthy fats keep you feeling full longer.' It is really true. I have very few hunger pangs.

As for protein, my understanding is that Atkins is a free range protein diet, ie, as much protein as you want. Ideal Protein limits protein to 8 oz a day. Too much protein can apparently throw one out of 'ketosis' -- the fat burning state that the body achieves by following the protocol.

My typical days starts out with a smoothie in the morning (includes an IP shake. I add in some spinach, cayenne pepper, tumeric, ice cubes made of a ginger infusion that I make + some ice cubes made of coffee. I also add in some stevia.

Lunch = a large salad, one of the IP packets with 2 cups of vegetables.

My supper everyday because I like steak = 8 oz grilled steak, large salad, grilled veggies.

In the evening, I have an IP protein pudding as a snack. I also have a daily supplement of coconut oil and a multivitamin.

Drinking lots of water is important because it is through the urine that the body excretes burned up fat.

My experience with this kind of eating has been absolutely positive. I plan to stay this way for life because besides losing weight, it has also helped with many other things, too. I have read that a ketogenic diet is recommended for people with depression because of the way that it can help the brain function more effectively.

My average weight loss has been over 4 pounds a week over the last 12 weeks.

Annik

Annik
08-20-2013, 08:59 PM
For anyone who is interested, a free online copy of the book written by the doctor who designed The Ideal Protein Diet is here: http://www.trantiendiet.com/site/spip.php?rubrique28

Ideal Protein is one of many versions of a ketogenic diet. Not all of them require purchase of special packets.

Wannabeskinny
08-20-2013, 09:26 PM
I tried low carbing on Atkins for a solid month and never got past feeling really ill. The body aches, head ache, brain fog and er, spending a significant amount of time on the toilet, never went away. I was miserable all the time. I lost almost 20 pounds that month but gained it right back, and then some, after abandoning that approach. Of course, I would have gained weight regardless of any diet I'd tried and failed at because my response to that was to self-flagellate and eat mass amounts of really unhealthy food.

Atkins is not "low carb" as you describe here. I can relate to those symptoms when cutting out carbs entirely. Low carbs is entirely different, you can have less carbs with fantastic results.

For example if I want some carbs I just have less. Just one slice of bread for a sandwich instead of 2. Small portions of rice or pasta. One piece of dark chocolate as a treat instead of a bowl of ice cream. There are ways to reduce carbs and see good results.

Radiojane
08-21-2013, 11:34 AM
The healthiest eating is generally lower carb. Green veggies, meat etc. I would check out Mark Sisson's carb chart: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/press/the-primal-blueprint-diagrams/#axzz2ccNi2xYE

100 grams a day is still quite a few carbs, making it easy to adjust to in an every day, long term diet.

Whether or not you decide to go low carb, you need to watch your calories too. Ketogenic or lower carb diets are not a license to lose control of your intake, but this isn't generally a problem because most find this sort of diet more satiating.

If you do cut your carbs drastically, expect to feel like crap for a few days to a week. Google "carb flu". Mine was ****. Now I feel amazing. That being said, a carb level is a personal thing. I do fantastically on 20 grams a day, which is super low, or induction level for atkins. Others, cannot function at all. So you need to give yourself two weeks to get past the withdrawal, and then focus on how you feel and tweak accordingly.

I am also an apple. I lose best on low carb, but I know plenty of other apples who do weight watchers and do just fine.

nelie
08-21-2013, 12:31 PM
The healthiest eating is generally lower carb. Green veggies, meat etc.

I shall disagree, there are plenty of healthy foods that aren't low carb including legumes, whole grains, some starchy vegetables (such as sweet potatoes). There is nothing wrong with low carb, and I say if someone wants to try it go for it but I've also seen a lot of people on this forum who get frustrated as they find low carb isn't for them and feel like they have failed.

Matisse
08-21-2013, 12:54 PM
I agree, Nelie. Carbs and sugars, especially processed sugars, are two different animals.

Fruits score really high on the satiety index. (http://www.mendosa.com/satiety.htm) They help with regularity. So do complex carbs. If someone is anemic like me, it's really difficult to hit your iron level with cereals like oats, bran or legumes.

Yesterday, I had a steak for dinner, thinking I was making a deposit in my iron bank. At the end of the day, I hit only 40 % of my recommended daily allowance and that's because I skipped breakfast.

Matisse
08-21-2013, 01:14 PM
I wanted to add something. In the last month, I have tweeked with my nutrition and I found that if I had a lunch without much carbs and natural sugars, I experienced huge energy drops and I could not have an intense workout. Eating a peach would help me get right back on my bike or cardio machine and exercise for longer than I had planned.

Someone like me has no energy without fruits.
_______

I am not dissing the people on little or no carb. To each their own, but I know it isn't for me.

Mrs Snark
08-21-2013, 01:21 PM
I am an "apple" (you can check my profile pic to see my "before" appley shape).

I'm also a vegan, so I'm not a "low carb" eater -- though I definitely don't eat junky, high-glycemic, empty carbs. But my diet is heavy on fruits, veggies, beans, lentils, sprouted grains, whole wheat.

I have no problem shedding the weight. My problem isn't carbs, it is terrible eating habits, lol.

Anyway, just wanted you to know that as a self-defined "apple" you may have other options than "low carb". Not that there is anything wrong with eating low carb -- I always say whatever works for you and makes you feel good! I just didn't want you to think your body shape precluded you from other choices! :)

Radiojane
08-21-2013, 01:52 PM
I shall disagree, there are plenty of healthy foods that aren't low carb including legumes, whole grains, some starchy vegetables (such as sweet potatoes). There is nothing wrong with low carb, and I say if someone wants to try it go for it but I've also seen a lot of people on this forum who get frustrated as they find low carb isn't for them and feel like they have failed.


True, but most people that haven't been watching what they eat or are making unhealthy choices regularly (pizza, chips, sugary treats or soda etc) are generally eating well above 250g of carbohydrates per day. A cup of sweet potato (baked) is 41g.

Even not counting carbs, I think most people would find switching to plant and protein based eating will result in a lower intake of carbs.

nelie
08-21-2013, 01:59 PM
True, but most people that haven't been watching what they eat or are making unhealthy choices regularly (pizza, chips, sugary treats or soda etc) are generally eating well above 250g of carbohydrates per day. A cup of sweet potato (baked) is 41g.

Even not counting carbs, I think most people would find switching to plant and protein based eating will result in a lower intake of carbs.

Yeah but this people eating pizza, chips, sugary drinks generally aren't trying to lose weight. You can also eat a low carb diet of only bacon. Most people that have lost weight through a moderate/high carb diet are eating quality carbs that are filling otherwise you burn through your calorie allotment quickly.

I personally eat a higher carb diet myself because it is what works for me, anywhere between 180 to 260 g per day.

Garnet2727
08-21-2013, 02:34 PM
So what is low carb? I'm getting confused. :dizzy:

I don't generally pay much attention to carbs but they're tracked for me in My Fitness Pal. In looking back over my food diary, I'm generally below 200 but above 125. Is that high carb?

Sorry if this is a thread derail.

nelie
08-21-2013, 02:39 PM
So what is low carb? I'm getting confused. :dizzy:

I don't generally pay much attention to carbs but they're tracked for me in My Fitness Pal. In looking back over my food diary, I'm generally below 200 but above 125. Is that high carb?

Sorry if this is a thread derail.

I think the answer depends. Some low carb diets dictate 50g or less, others say 100g. I think you are moderate to high. It is more of a percentage of your calories. Generally, carbs are around 60% of my calories, give or take.

mariposssa
08-21-2013, 03:06 PM
@Garnet2727 I think you will get different answers from different people. I do a carb cycling plan with low, moderate, and high carb days. I eat 30-40 carbs on a low day, 100 on a medium days and have one meal on Saturday and Sunday where I don't count carbs at all. But, I also count and cycle calories. Saturday & Sunday are my higher calorie and higher carb days.

sluggo88
08-21-2013, 03:26 PM
mariposssa are you doing the Chris Powell plan

Matisse
08-21-2013, 04:28 PM
There are different definitions to low-carb diets. A meta-analysis done by Dr. Hu & al. defines low-carb diets as diets where less than 45 % of caloric intake is taken from carbs. So that is not especially restrictive. Here is the abstract from this research.
____________________________

Am J Epidemiol. 2012 Oct 1;176 Suppl 7:S44-54. doi: 10.1093/aje/kws264.
Effects of low-carbohydrate diets versus low-fat diets on metabolic risk factors: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled clinical trials.
Hu T, Mills KT, Yao L, Demanelis K, Eloustaz M, Yancy WS Jr, Kelly TN, He J, Bazzano LA.
Source

Department of Epidemiology, School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine, Tulane University, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112, USA.
Abstract

The effects of low-carbohydrate diets (≤45% of energy from carbohydrates) versus low-fat diets (≤30% of energy from fat) on metabolic risk factors were compared in a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. Twenty-three trials from multiple countries with a total of 2,788 participants met the predetermined eligibility criteria (from January 1, 1966 to June 20, 2011) and were included in the analyses. Data abstraction was conducted in duplicate by independent investigators. Both low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets lowered weight and improved metabolic risk factors. Compared with participants on low-fat diets, persons on low-carbohydrate diets experienced a slightly but statistically significantly lower reduction in total cholesterol (2.7 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: 0.8, 4.6), and low density lipoprotein cholesterol (3.7 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: 1.0, 6.4), but a greater increase in high density lipoprotein cholesterol (3.3 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: 1.9, 4.7) and a greater decrease in triglycerides (-14.0 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: -19.4, -8.7). Reductions in body weight, waist circumference and other metabolic risk factors were not significantly different between the 2 diets. These findings suggest that low-carbohydrate diets are at least as effective as low-fat diets at reducing weight and improving metabolic risk factors. Low-carbohydrate diets could be recommended to obese persons with abnormal metabolic risk factors for the purpose of weight loss. Studies demonstrating long-term effects of low-carbohydrate diets on cardiovascular events were warranted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23035144

nelie
08-21-2013, 05:06 PM
I went and looked at the abstract of 2 recent studies (late last year) and they didn't mention the carb count but they had high carb, moderate carb and low carb. I wish they would've said in the abstract how much each denoted. Anyway, they said that the difference wasn't the carb count in long term weight maintenance but protein count which is interesting.

Another study compared low carb (<20g) and high carb over a 6 wk period (very short period) and the weight loss difference was insignificant between the two groups but the only difference was the low carb group had an increase in LDL cholesterol. Although really 6 weeks is too short for a study, they should really be a year or more for weight loss and weight loss maintenance (IMO).

mariposssa
08-21-2013, 05:16 PM
mariposssa are you doing the Chris Powell plan

Sort of...it is a very similar plan to his with rotating carb days. But, I guess you could say it is customized to work better for me. He has some rules I don't follow and I have some of my own that aren't part of his plan. I was already doing carb cycling before I heard of his plan; but I adopted some of his ideas.

Wannabeskinny
08-21-2013, 05:19 PM
So what is low carb? I'm getting confused. :dizzy:

I don't generally pay much attention to carbs but they're tracked for me in My Fitness Pal. In looking back over my food diary, I'm generally below 200 but above 125. Is that high carb?

Sorry if this is a thread derail.

Low carb means that you eat SOME carbs and keep it to a minimum. Remember the food pyramid from yesteryear? That indicated that the bulk of our diet should come from starches. Breads, cereals, corn, potatoes, rice etc. Many of us grew up this way, it was the most economical way to feed a family. Most moms would dole out a big portion of carb with a pinch of vegetables and protein. Low carb living directs you to switch that up, limit the carbs in portion and up the ante on veggies and proteins.

If you do calorie count for even a few days you'll soon realize that carbs cost a lot of calories, that's how I learned my lesson. I would limit the carbs so that I could limit the calories. I could eat way more veggies and protein than carbs and stay under my limit.

Matisse
08-21-2013, 05:23 PM
Strange, Nelie. Dr Hu & al. meta-analysis concludes the exact opposite. I guess that science has not come to a conclusion on the effect of low-carbs diets on LDL cholesterol.

Compared with participants on low-fat diets, persons on low-carbohydrate diets experienced a slightly but statistically significantly lower reduction in total cholesterol (2.7 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: 0.8, 4.6), and low density lipoprotein cholesterol (3.7 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: 1.0, 6.4), but a greater increase in high density lipoprotein cholesterol (3.3 mg/dL; 95% confidence interval: 1.9, 4.7)

nelie
08-21-2013, 05:50 PM
Strange, Nelie. Dr Hu & al. meta-analysis concludes the exact opposite. I guess that science has not come to a conclusion on the effect of low-carbs diets on LDL cholesterol.

Interesting! that is why no single study is proof :)

This was from Hernandez et al (they call it high fat here but they refer to it in the abstract as restricted carbs at less than 20 g/day)

CONCLUSIONS:
Weight loss was similar between diets, but only the high-fat diet increased LDL-cholesterol concentrations. This effect was related to the lack of suppression of both fasting and 24-h FFAs.

JerseyGyrl
08-21-2013, 06:40 PM
I'm one of the rare, long term people on Atkins:) I've been dong Atkins 9 years and 4 months. I don't eat bread, rice, potatoes (with the exception of 1 sweet potato a week), pasta. I also don't typically eat fruit, with the exception of some occasional berries in the Summer.
I enjoy this way of eating and it works for me. That being said, its not for everyone.
I chose this way of eating because I knew it was something I could do long term (complete lifestyle change).

Radiojane
08-22-2013, 12:17 PM
Yeah but this people eating pizza, chips, sugary drinks generally aren't trying to lose weight. You can also eat a low carb diet of only bacon. Most people that have lost weight through a moderate/high carb diet are eating quality carbs that are filling otherwise you burn through your calorie allotment quickly.

I personally eat a higher carb diet myself because it is what works for me, anywhere between 180 to 260 g per day.

Which is my point. Generally when people begin to try to lose weight, they automatically lower their carb intake. If 260g of carbs works for you, that's great.

Diets are completely subjective. Aside from extremes where you completely slash out a food group or a macronutrient, there's very little you can do wrong. I think you'll find that most people doing low carb arent living on bacon.

levoguette
08-22-2013, 12:43 PM
Anyways, from what I've read I should cut out carbs. Dammit! That means all the "good" stuff is gone! It makes it really hard having to eat meat and vegetables all the time. What can I do? Should I be going to calorie counting route instead? I just don't know! I also thrive on routine, would it be beneficial to eat the same things every Monday, Tuesday and so on? Like a weekly meal plan?

Anyone with a similar body type feel free to post any advice you have. Can I have a cheat day where I can eat carbs? Are some carbs good? I'm so lost! I'm not sure if I put this in the right spot or not, either. Sorry!

I did not read through the whole thread, so I'm not sure if anyone has already posted this, apologies in advance if so.

Before starting my weight loss, the majority of the foods I would eat were carbs. I love carbs, and I know that although I probably should give them up, if I did, at least all at once, I would very likely fall off the weight loss wagon asap and just become severely frustrated.

My first step was calorie counting, it does not have to be as hard as you think. There are a few websites were you can log in your calories and it will keep track for you, and if you have a smart phone it is even easier! I use LoseIt! on my iphone, it is free, and instead of having to punch in the calorie amounts you can scan the barcode of the food and put in how much you've eaten. I don't think it gets much easier than that!

My second step was started changing all of my carb options to whole wheat / grain instead of white carbs. I also tried making some of my more favorite recipes and swapping a sort of veggie in place of a carb. If you do some recipe searching online, you can find some pretty good swaps for certain carbs. (ie: spaghetti squash instead of just regular spaghetti, mashed cauliflower instead of mashed potatoes, zucchini substituted in traditional pasta dishes like lasagna, I've also even seen people use them as the base of a "pizza" instead of pizza crust, etc)

My third step was then to start being more mindful of the amount of carbs I was eating and limiting the amount of carbs I eat per meal and how I was balancing them out with other food groups.

I would not call my diet low-carb or anything near it, but hopefully as I continue to make changes I will get to a point where I've found that I do not care for carbs as much as I used to. I know it will be a long time before I reach that, but I think taking baby-steps has helped me stick with my diet goals.

Bellamack
08-22-2013, 12:44 PM
ha ha ha those who think low carb has been around for only 40 years are wrong, our ancestors ate that way 10,000 years ago and there is scientific evidence that they had NO tooth decay, NO cardiovascular disease and almost NO Cancer type disease, NO ADD, etc. They ate lean game, fish, veggies and fruits when in season. They ate NO DAiry, Sugar (other than small amounts of fruits) They ate occasional nuts when they found them. THEY were NOT overweight. Our Stomachs were designed for low carb, lean protein, What other species drinks another animals milk? think about it. Grains have only been used as food for a few hundred years and with it came an onset of disease.

nelie
08-22-2013, 01:09 PM
ha ha ha those who think low carb has been around for only 40 years are wrong, our ancestors ate that way 10,000 years ago and there is scientific evidence that they had NO tooth decay, NO cardiovascular disease and almost NO Cancer type disease, NO ADD, etc. They ate lean game, fish, veggies and fruits when in season. They ate NO DAiry, Sugar (other than small amounts of fruits) They ate occasional nuts when they found them. THEY were NOT overweight. Our Stomachs were designed for low carb, lean protein, What other species drinks another animals milk? think about it. Grains have only been used as food for a few hundred years and with it came an onset of disease.

I said the idea of low carb as a diet has been around for at least 40 years. My point wasIi dont think the idea of low carb is revolutionary and new in nutritional circles. And in terms of grains, the latest research for grains shows that grains have been used as food for a lot longer than we previously thought, well beyond 10,000 years ago. Grains have been used for a lot longer than just a couple hundred years and if you look at societies that have a high carb diet beyond western society, you also see virtually no cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, etc. The reason is they tend to eat a lot of vegetables, whole grains, legumes and actually very little meat.

mariposssa
08-22-2013, 02:29 PM
Acually, I don't think that is accurate. Bread and grain has been
around much longer than a few hundred years. The ancient Egyptians made bread. There are many, many references to bread in the Bible. It isn't like people suddenly started eating bread in Civil War times.

The wikipedia may not be the best source ever...but it says bread goes back 30,000 years!!

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bread

Grains have only been used as food for a few hundred years and with it came an onset of disease.

Wannabeskinny
08-22-2013, 05:51 PM
Oh gosh here we go with the carb wars! There are lots of cultures that have lived off grains for centuries without obesity. But my own personal truth is that wheat makes me crazy and hungry. My body tells me this loud and clear. I limit carbs because my body functions better this way. To each their own!

Lolo70
08-22-2013, 06:15 PM
ha ha ha those who think low carb has been around for only 40 years are wrong, our ancestors ate that way 10,000 years ago and there is scientific evidence that they had NO tooth decay, NO cardiovascular disease and almost NO Cancer type disease, NO ADD, etc. They ate lean game, fish, veggies and fruits when in season. They ate NO DAiry, Sugar (other than small amounts of fruits) They ate occasional nuts when they found them. THEY were NOT overweight. Our Stomachs were designed for low carb, lean protein, What other species drinks another animals milk? think about it. Grains have only been used as food for a few hundred years and with it came an onset of disease.

Most of those ancestors died before the age of 30. That's why they never came down with those diseases. Most of us also have a genetic mutation that prevents the normal silencing of a gene in adults that can deal with lactose. So, our body has indeed evolved to use milk. And you have already been corrected about grains.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_evolution/2012/10/evolution_of_lactose_tolerance_why_do_humans_keep_ drinking_milk.html

kaplods
08-22-2013, 06:49 PM
I've found that I feel best on a moderately low-carb diet. I've read many books and articles on various food philosophies: low-carb, paleo, vegan, raw-food (both raw food vegan and raw food omnivorous including raw meat), whole food, slow-carb, good carb....

In every case, the authors attempt to persuade the reader by referencing the evidence supporting their theory. They all neglect to mention the evidence that doesn't fit (or they try to force it to fit or try to discredit the source of the evidence).

Nutrition science is in it's infancy, and there's as much support for high-carb eating as for low. Most (but not all) paleo diet authors tend to deemphasize the importance of gathering (the source of paleo carbs) and overemphasize the hunting (the fat and protein), and more evidence is coming in that paleo diets were often higher carb than the hunter-focused paleo gurus would have us believe.

I'm saying this, not because I object to low-carb or paleo. In fact, I find low-but-not-too-low-carb paleo works best for me, but I don't want to justify my experience or assume it's true for everyone else using false information.

I read as much as I can, from all perspectives to get the big picture, because the science does not point in only one direction, so I had to experiment to see what works best for me. There is much evidence pointing towards lower carb, but there's also evidence pointing away, in many other directions.

Trial and error is what we're left with "in the trenches," because there is no universally accepted nutritional theory. The science is still steeped in controversy.

mariposssa
08-22-2013, 10:38 PM
Oh gosh here we go with the carb wars! There are lots of cultures that have lived off grains for centuries without obesity. But my own personal truth is that wheat makes me crazy and hungry. My body tells me this loud and clear. I limit carbs because my body functions better this way. To each their own!

You will get no argument from me as my body tells me the same story. Sometimes, I get tired of hearing it...but it is my truth, too. My main "beef" is with those who make any one food the miracle cure or the villain. Wheat, grain, sugar, fat, protein...they all just take turns being public enemy number one. We don't need more research paid for by the people who will benefit from results. We need some common sense, moderation and as kaplods suggested individual experimentation by trial and error. Lower to moderate carbs is what works best for me. I happen to be an apple, too. Maybe that is relevant and maybe not.

Wannabeskinny
08-23-2013, 07:12 AM
You will get no argument from me as my body tells me the same story. Sometimes, I get tired of hearing it...but it is my truth, too. My main "beef" is with those who make any one food the miracle cure or the villain. Wheat, grain, sugar, fat, protein...they all just take turns being public enemy number one. We don't need more research paid for by the people who will benefit from results. We need some common sense, moderation and as kaplods suggested individual experimentation by trial and error. Lower to moderate carbs is what works best for me. I happen to be an apple, too. Maybe that is relevant and maybe not.

I hate it too! Gee I wish I could eat carbs on a moderate level. I'm a smart person, I fully understand that Asian cultures have been eating rice for centuries and aren't fat, that Latin America has been eating corn and wheat and don't get fat, that Italians eat pasta and don't get fat, that the french eat bread and don't get fat, it goes on and on. But somehow, the refined carbs that I've grown up on make me crazy for lack of a better word. I do single out wheat because more than any other starch it hits me where I hurt most. I can eat rice moderately and not be scared of how I'll feel afterwards. Potatoes are dangerous territory but they don't have the physical effects on me that wheat does.

But let's be honest here. The real culprit is sugar, because it's in everything everything everything. But you're right, after some trial and error you really do find out what works best for your body. I point that out because when someone does no-carb and claims it's low-carb they are absolutely confusing 2 different types of diet altogether!

My favorite food is a doughnut. Why? Because it's deep fried wheat smothered in sugar that's why. It's pure evil and those people who can have one and not get derailed are some kind of genius that I am not.

nelie
08-23-2013, 07:23 AM
I hate it too! Gee I wish I could eat carbs on a moderate level. I'm a smart person, I fully understand that Asian cultures have been eating rice for centuries and aren't fat, that Latin America has been eating corn and wheat and don't get fat, that Italians eat pasta and don't get fat, that the french eat bread and don't get fat, it goes on and on. But somehow, the refined carbs that I've grown up on make me crazy for lack of a better word. I do single out wheat because more than any other starch it hits me where I hurt most. I can eat rice moderately and not be scared of how I'll feel afterwards. Potatoes are dangerous territory but they don't have the physical effects on me that wheat does.

But let's be honest here. The real culprit is sugar, because it's in everything everything everything. But you're right, after some trial and error you really do find out what works best for your body. I point that out because when someone does no-carb and claims it's low-carb they are absolutely confusing 2 different types of diet altogether!

My favorite food is a doughnut. Why? Because it's deep fried wheat smothered in sugar that's why. It's pure evil and those people who can have one and not get derailed are some kind of genius that I am not.

Don't be hard on yourself, people who are losing weight on a higher carb diet aren't eating doughnuts regularly. I think it is just about accepting that there is no perfect diet for every one. I see a lot of what I call diet paralysis on the forums because people believe they found the perfect diet but then personally can't follow through with it. Although I eat a higher carb diet, wheat isn't a big part of my diet. My higher carb items are beans, brown rice (or similar whole grains in place of rice) or fruit.

Jacqui_D
08-23-2013, 08:20 AM
I think it is just about accepting that there is no perfect diet for every one. I see a lot of what I call diet paralysis on the forums because people believe they found the perfect diet but then personally can't follow through with it.

Bingo! Our bodies are different. What works for me may not work for another and vice versa. I'm always confused by the authors that want to say "in caveman times" or" for thousands of years," etc. Lifespans used to be pretty short. Why should I be convinced by anything early mankind was eating? (It's a rhetorical question. I'm not going to be convinced.) And my graduate statistics class taught me that the results of any study can be skewed and presented in a way that supports what the researcher believes or wants to believe, so I don't sink all my faith into any study either. The best any of us can do is try to find the key to weight loss for our own bodies and then be kind enough to support others as they find what works best for their bodies.

Garnet2727
08-23-2013, 10:27 AM
You will get no argument from me as my body tells me the same story. Sometimes, I get tired of hearing it...but it is my truth, too. My main "beef" is with those who make any one food the miracle cure or the villain. Wheat, grain, sugar, fat, protein...they all just take turns being public enemy number one. We don't need more research paid for by the people who will benefit from results. We need some common sense, moderation and as kaplods suggested individual experimentation by trial and error. Lower to moderate carbs is what works best for me. I happen to be an apple, too. Maybe that is relevant and maybe not.

*stands up and hollers AMEN!!!*

Monkeysocks
08-29-2013, 06:36 PM
I read a study awhile ago that said that there was some biological factor that meant some people did better on low fat diets, others on low carb. The researchers were trying to pinpoint this factor so that there could be a possible test that would tell you which type of diet would work better for weight loss for an individual.

I know for me it is low carb, but I have to watch fat and calories too. But if I do the same calorie count with higher carbs I just don't lose. Just my experience, I know other who lose fine with much higher carb intake, just watching fat and calories. We are all different.