I'd say my experience is opposite of Kira. I tended to put off eating until I was very hungry and then would eat too much. I now eat @ every 2-3 hours so I never get a chance to get hungry.
This describes me as well. I get so into a project, book, game, activity, that I don't realize I didn't eat until it's way later than it should be.
I have been on the other end of the stick too though. I recently was offered help with my food choices from a friend who is a nurse. A serving of almonds is 3? 3???!?!?!?!?!. It's hard to know what to eat, how much, etc. Prevention magazine says you have to eat x amount of the almonds to get a nutritional benefit from them, but the nurse says 3. Frustrating! I followed her plan for 2-3 weeks & lost 15 pounds, but went to bed hungry a few times.
I think for me it's going to have to be give & take & a LOT of planning to not be hungry. Mandalinn82 is a great inspiration for this. She decided she wanted to lose weight but not be hungry, so she researched good recipes that are healthful. She's still my inspiration.
I asked this question a few months ago and felt like I got kind of slapped down for it, as if I was suggesting that people should be willing to be hungry all the time to lose weight, or that people should endure symptoms of low blood sugar and wait hours to eat. I must have worded it wrong because you're getting lots of good responses, Kira!
When I started that thread (months ago, I think), my question was really more related to the thought that, for many (most?) of us, it probably wouldn't hurt us to learn to live with that slight feeling of hunger once in awhile, to learn that we don't have to drop everything and find food as soon as the first twinge hits us, as another poster suggested. It's interesting, because in the past that's exactly what I did--I would stop what I was doing and make sure to eat (and eat and eat) at the first sign of hunger. It was as if I was somehow afraid to experience that sensation. And now that I'm more accustomed to feeling it occasionally, it's kind of comforting to realize that yes, I can be a little hungry and the world will not stop turning. A few almonds (more than three!!!!!) will tide me over, so I keep a small can in my desk and in the cupboard here at home. But if I don't have them, I am learning to just distract myself, because snacktime/mealtime will be here soon. It actually makes me feel more in control over my food. But fear not, there is no danger of me becoming anorexic! I still like my chow, for sure. I just don't have to have it IMMEDIATELY at the first pang of hunger anymore.
It's nice having several snacks planned throughout the day!
It's nice having several snacks planned throughout the day!
This is what I'm learning! Apples & peanut butter are booooooooring, so I added no sugar added applesauce & lowfat string cheese. If I wait too long, it's disaster.
But yes, a few nights of going to bed hungry did not kill me. Mostly I am too tired after the gym to eat much of anything anyway, so having milk usually is a nice compromise.
I'm definitely afraid of being hungry. I think it stems from constantly dieting when I was a growing teen athlete.
I remember I used to feel actually panicky that I would not get to eat enough-- I used to go to school, and then do sports for hours after school. My mom would give me one orange for a snack and tell me that was all I "needed".
Maybe I've pretty much outgrown it now-- at age 48-- but for years the idea of restricting food made me severely panicky.
I got hungry reading this! But then, it was breakfast time. The only time I get really hungry--uncomfortable and hungry is sometimes when it is time to prepare supper. I can't have a snack to assauge it--so, I usually have a diet Coke. I've tried water--but for me, when I'm ravenous, there has to be a certain "mouth-feel" to it--and coffee and diet Coke are the only things that have it. (And I won't drink coffee before dinner. I have too much of it as it is.)
I believe I read somewhere that individuals who are overweight do not tolerate pain or discomfort as well as, say, an olympic athlete. Obviously, if this is true, there are exceptions, some of you posted above! But I often wonder about that. I am not pain tolerant at all. At our dentists office, they have a gizmo which you can control yourself to "lessen the pain" of having your teeth cleaned. The Hygenist there has remarked that I am one of those few who crank those pain meds way up--higher than most.
And funnily enough, it was realising that my weight was contributing to the almost permanent pain I was in which finally motivated me to do something about it.
But is hunger a form of pain?
For some, more than others, I'd think judging from the responses.
I've had this in my mind for a long time and sometimes still have to remind myself that hunger does not equal death. I'm sure I got that notion growing up poor, afraid money would disappear and we would starve. I've also developed some negative associations with hunger, the "starving model," which reflects social ideas I don't want to support. They are such strong associations that I have to consciously work to break them, wasn't really even aware of what I was thinking until I started pondering it.
I think what sometimes makes people bristle at the suggestion to "endure" hunger to a greater degree, is that it requires the assumption that one isn't already doing so. "The reason you're fat is because you eat whenever you're hungry!" No, I can truly say that is not true for me. The bigger problem was ignoring hunger until I was so ravenous that good judgement would go out the window.
When I was little (after age 5), if I said I was hungry, they'd say "good, that means you're losing weight." But it really meant that they didn't listen to me and were teaching me not to listen to myself as well. The message that really was sent was "don't eat for as long as you possibly can stand it," so that's what I did.
In high school I lost 70 lbs over the course of 2 to 3 years. I did so with a combination of amphetemine diet pills, and eatig disordered behavior. Basically, I'd eat only on weekends - and my parents mostly supported me in the behavior, because I think they felt that an overweight person couldn't have an eating disorder. If I had a salad with little or no dressing for dinner, they were ok with that (even though 150 calories MAX, isn't enough fuel to exist upon).
Learning to control hunger has been much more helpful to me than learning to ignore or endure it.
I don't think anyone is making a VALUE judgement on the issue, Ms Kaplods. And I don't see anyone 'bristling" at the suggestion. NO ONE is suggesting that anyone endure anything! And I'm so sorry that you had such a tough time as a child.
But the underlying questions are still these: do we fear hunger? Do we view hunger as an enemy that has to be wrestled into submission? And does this perception or definition of hunger ultimately prove to be somewhat self-destructive? That is, are we spending huge amounts of energy out of fear? When we could be spending this energy more productively IF we can accurately assess our hunger and put it into perspective?
Perhaps hunger ISN'T an enemy -- perhaps the distinction between "normal" hunger and hunger that should be dealt with is actually a TOOL that we can incorporate in our quest for health.
And for each of us, the answer will be different -- as you recall, my original post asked for thoughts to the matter, not a definition that would suit everyone...it is simply a springboard for self-reflection.
I don't think anyone is making a VALUE judgement on the issue, Ms Kaplods. And I don't see anyone 'bristling" at the suggestion.
I never said anyone here was, I was responding to Windchime's post that she felt "slapped down," for a similar question.
As for my childhood, it wasn't "tough," at least not more so than anyone else's. Just like anyone else's my experiences not only in childhood, but throughout my life have shaped who I am. That's it.
As to the question "are we afraid to be hungry?" I was only answering for myself.
And for me the answer is NO.
When I eat too many carbs, I do spend large amounts of energy dealing with hunger, but fear has nothing to do with it. Insulin-response has everything to do with it. It's a physiological response, not a mental one. And when the problem is physiological, the best solution will also be.
I guess the reason I came to my conclusion is due to the following:
I think what sometimes makes people bristle at the suggestion to "endure" hunger to a greater degree, is that it requires the assumption that one isn't already doing so. "The reason you're fat is because you eat whenever you're hungry!"
The last sentence, in particular, really led me to understand from your post that you believe a value judgement is implicitly placed on overweight people specifically with respect to the issue of hunger and hunger satisfaction. And you gotta admit that the way you've phrased this can lead to this interpretation, no? I was simply stating that no one has put this value judgement out there during this thread. And I don't understand how your post is in response to Ms. Windchime's experience, but that's just me...
No offense meant. I must have pushed a button, here...
My question was just meant as a tool for self-reflection, that's all and not a judgement that "the reason [overweight people] are fat is because [they] eat whenever [they're] hungry".
But it still begs the question -- How DO we evaluate and deal with hunger? And is it possible that the issue of hunger and discomfort and what is acceptable to an individual has to be considered along this path at some time? And perhaps our own conception of hunger and our perceived need to address it might need some examination? The question is just a springboard for conversation and hopefully, greater self-understanding.
As always Kira...interesting question.
I was actually watching CSPAN this am.David Kessler, author of The End of Overeating was discussing this.He talks about the obesity epidemic and that being afraid of hunger is a huge factor in its development.He states that years ago people rarely ate between meals.Now people graze all day.He also says this behavior is hardwired in out brains before 5 years old.And often we (parents) are constantly offering our children food and dont have set meal times.I have actually read his book and would highly reccomend it.Very profound information.He also says that in order to change your weight and lifestyle, you have to want something more.And yes...he says you do have to sometimes whitenuckle it.
You Rock My Girl Kira!!
The thing with hunger is this. It's a natural response that was created in humans to signal that we need to replenish. It may be out of whack for some as Kaplods has shared on various occasions, and I would assume that the hunger response is probably out of whack for some of the super skinny people of the world too. I personally don't "like" to be hungry. It hurts, it makes me feel weird, but I do endure it when necessary because I am sick and tired of being fat, and I don't want to be any more!!!!!
I will "suffer for a few hours" if it means that I am in a healthy weight range and nourishing my body with proper nutrients. But, I have found ways to combat the hunger beast that allows me to eat a LARGE amount of food, and still lose weight. No drugs, no willpower, and no white-knuckle behaviour is required when you develop recipes that are full of fiber, low in calories, and packed with vitamins. I definalty can fix 1200-1500 calories worth of delicious and filling food for a day that would put a competitive eater to shame.
For me, having lost the weight and all through the process - I was/still am TERRIFIED of being hungry. I used such a strong word, because that's just how strongly I feel about it.
I get light headed and woozy and feel as if I'm going to pass out. I do my absolute best to avoid that feeling at all costs. That's why I eat so frequently, ALWAYS plan in advance and that's why where my calories come from are SO important to me. That's why I can't do those 100 calorie packs and sugar/carb laden foods. They don't stick with me. They don't satisfy me. Which is why I need/require SUCH nutrient rich foods. I despise, despise, despise being hungry. When devising my plan, that' was one of the major things I needed to address - how to avoid hunger. And I'm thrilled to say that it is NEVER an issue for me. Anytime I overspend my calories, it's got nothing to do with me being hungry.
Now back in the day, the 287 lb day that is, I don't think my fear of hunger was quite as strong. Of course being the all day eater that I was, it rarely came up. And if I was even a little tiny bit hungry - I ate. And since I wasn't all that particular, it didn't matter what it was. If it wasn't satiating food - I just would eat more. That's not to say that I ate ONLY when I was hungry, because nothing could be further from the truth. I ate whatever I wanted, when I wanted, hunger had nothing to do with it.
Kira, I think you've posed another thought provoking topic here. I think I'll glance over some of the responses now. But not until I go make myself a little something to eat. I'm just beginning to feel a tiny bit - maybe hunger. And I've got to nip it in the bud before it turns into an all out hunger. Can't let that happen.
