Sigh. I'm feeling really frustrated today in another forum I basically got told that I "Seriously didn't know what I was talking about" because I relayed my own experience that high-rep workouts could build muscle to a lesser degree too...

Maybe just not as quick or as much as traditional weight lifting. I think this is likely a beginner thing if your already lifiting you probably won't get the same benefits, and will more build endurance then anything, but Ive been working out for 4 months with 3 of those months doing Jari Love DVDs and I KNOW I've built muscle but apartly I'm lying or an idiot or something. My muscle isnt visable yet as I have a lot to lose but there is definately hard bulk under my fluff that has never been there before.

My point of this post does anyone know of any studys done to show it's not pointless? I've read some things and I can't remember where at. Obviously I will hit a wall at some point doing what I do but I keep increasing my weights so I am lifting to exhaustion and I'm still doing okay. Some day I might have to change my style of workouts

I just want to know if anyone has any data to support that its a perfectly fine way for beginners to start off. Not that there is anything wrong with heavy lifting I know that.

My preference for doing what I do has to do more with not getting bored because I don't mind working out with my DVDs. Plus some people just dont have heavy equiptment and I like to be able to tell them you don't HAVE to have it. Just some body-weight and small dumbells maybe a small barbell will do it for you for now.

(Who currently uses 18lb barbell and 8lb weights to Jari Love DVDs)

-muse

I'd be interested to find out myself......
don't you just hate the forum bashers? It seems to me that some people just LIVE to act all holier than thou on these things, and there's almost ALWAYS two sides to every story.
I'm certainly no expert on weight lifting, because I just started this myself about 8 weeks ago. But I do know that depending on what your goal is, it shouldn't be necessary to infinitely increase weight or else be "wasting your time". I personally have increased my weight some since I started, because my behind was WEAK when I started. But what I have increased alot is my reps. My goal is not to be able to leg press 300 pounds, or to look muscular. I incorporated strength training to aid in my weight loss and feel stronger.
Of course, if your goal IS maximum strength capability, then higher reps really probably won't do you much good. But strength training doesn't HAVE to be about that.
Before I gained all this weight (pregnancy), all I ever had to do to stay in shape is yoga. Yoga (and pilates) are a form of strength training that use only your body weight for resistance, and repetition, not weight increase, is the secret to it's success. I recently started doing pilates at home, and I must say that it has worked my muscles harder than anything I've been able to lift at the gym yet. Ever seen how lean and muscular someone can be from doing pilates or yoga long term? It has NOTHING to do with lifting with the highest weight possible 3-4 reps to exhaustion.
Besides-lifting can also be part of a cardiovascular routine. Adding hand weights to your video routine makes you work harder than you did without them, therefore increasing the intensity of your workout and the results you'll get. BRAVO. And I don't care how much weight you are lifting, if you don't lose pounds and decrease body fat at the same time, you won't be able to see that "bulk under your fluff" (luv that), so if what you are doing is working for you, then just ignore all of the naysayers with the superiority complexes and keep doing what you're doing, girl.

From what I remember, there are shocking methods that involve using lower weights, but you're still lifting to failure with these.

And while I prefer lifting higher weight with lower reps, I realize everyone is different. So if what you're doing now is working for you, I don't see any reason to change it.

Higher reps with very low weights=cardio. There is nothing wrong with that, but it isn't the best way to build strength. High volume workouts with challenging weights is one of the best ways to build size and just about every bodybuilder trains that way.

Strength athletes train for power using lower rep ranges, less volume and more explosive reps. IMHO, if you are trying to lose weight, you are better served by focusing on building strength rather than size. Once you have achieved your goal weight you can focus on bodybuilding.

My strength/weight goal for 2006 is to perform a strict military press with bodyweight, so I am focusing diet, cardio (~5hours/week), and a low volume, heavy overhead press regimen. My pressing looks like this:

Seated Overhead Press from collarbone: (warm up)45#x5 135#x3 185#x1 (ladders, 2min. between sets)210#x1/2/3/1/2/3/1/2/2

I missed the last rep of the ladder, so I will not increase the weight until I can easily complete all the sets in the ladder.

If I wanted to use a more "bodybuilding" approach to my overhead press, my work sets might look more like this:

145#x10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10x10

The above would be a very hard workout, but would do less to build strength and more to build size than the lower rep scheme.

Rep count depends totally on your goals and your experience. I mix up my workouts alot. I tend to lift mostly like a bodybuilder, keeping my reps in the 8-12 range, but every once in a while, I'll do a high rep day (15 or 20) with light weghts, or a body weight day on wobbly surfaces.

I would caution you against doing aerobics dvds daily with hand weights. It causes overuse injuries, particularly rotator cuff tears or tendonitis, and "tennis elbow".

Mel

I realize it's not the gold standard for building muscle, but I do keep increasing my weights on the Jari videos, and I've really put on some mad muscle. Of course I started with very little tone though. It just makes me sad to see people think so black and white and discourage fledgeling strength builders because they get told what they want to do "won't work at all"

If high reps didn't build muscle churning butter wouldn't give you an arm of steel. Maraton runners wouldn't have iron legs. No you're not going to be a body builder with "lighter" (the word light is reative) weights, but to discount the activity is just wrong.

And I agree with the cardio part it's one of the reasons I choose to do it. I clocked 700calorie burn in 45mins doing one of my Jari Videos.

I think part of the problem is people picture 2lbs dumbells being slung around all day and that's not the case. My Barbell is set to 18. I started with 2 5lbers. As soon as I can finish the set comfortably I increase the weight.

While I agree traditional is the way to go for the more impressive progress it's not the only way.

Well If anyone runs into any articles or whatever please post them here.

Thanks!

Here is Poliquin's article on the benefits of high rep training:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis13.htm

Thanks Robert for the link. Really Interesting stuff.

I loved that link Robert-
I've been doing something that's not quite as organized, but I've found it to be effective for me.
For example-I CAN leg press 200 pounds. I've tried it just out of curiosity, and never tried any higher. But I definitely don't want to injure myself, so I've been doing 4 sets of 10 at 110 pounds. I don't feel like I'm wasting my time just because I'm not lifting the absolute heaviest I can lift. I don't really understand how people can have that point of view, because the way I see it is this......ANY workout I do is better than NO workout. Going from lifting nothing EVER to lifting what I do now has got to be an improvement, and I am definitely stronger now and feel better than before I started.
I think we all have to find by trial and error what works for each of us, and I admire anyone who wants to bulk up-it's just not for me. As a matter of fact, when I first started lifting my dh gave me alot of flack about not wanting me to get huge muscles, and after some research and some help from the people here on this forum, I understand now that it would take ALOT more and different work than what I'm doing to achieve that-but that's not what I'm looking to do here anyway.

One safe way to estimate your 1 rep max is to rep out with a lower weight and then use that to calculate your estimated 1 rep max. Here is an online calculator:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/1rm.htm

For me at least, it is pretty accurate in the 2-7 rep range for predicting my max presses. As your strength increases you will get less and less out of those 4 sets of 110# unless you either change the tempo or increase the weight. Both pressing faster (using as much force as you can deliver to move a sub-maximal weight) and lifting slower change the nature of the lift and make it harder, though in different ways. Keeping track of your absolute strength is useful for monitoring your progress and designing your workouts.

I personally like to lift heavy. I've done up to 600 lb leg presses when I was doing weights more regularly (failure at 12 reps or so). Suprisingly, my thighs never got big but they did lose quite a few inches. I was doing lots of heavy lifting and no cardio for the first few months of my initial weight loss and all it did was end up in me losing a lot of inches. I really did enjoy using the big 45 lb plates at the gym and loading and unloading them on various weight machines Now that I'm doing more of BFL style workout, it is easier to use the machines where plates don't need to be loaded and unloaded. My current gym also has a small free weight section so I don't like it so much.

I've done aerobic programs with weights (The FIRM) and I thought they were fun but I much prefer seperating out my cardio and weights. You will get benefits from aerobic weight training but I think the muscle benefits are a lot less than regular weight training.

cool link robert-
Oh I definitely know I will have to increase my weight-I just started lifting about 2 months ago, and for example on the leg press I started at only 80 lbs and 1 set of 15 reps. I've gradually gone up 2 pounds at a time on all the machines I use-I go up on average about once or twice a week-but I have surely been building strength by being able to increase my reps even though I haven't been trying to max out on the weight. On all the upper body machines I have done the same on the weight increases, but I'm only up to 3 sets of 10 on those. Told u guys I'm weak

I don't have a gym membership anymore, but when I'm ready to start mixing in higher weight lower rep programs can anyone recommend a good DVD that uses a more traditional program layout that I can do at home? What I'm doing works for me now and I keep increasing the weights but not sure if I will stall out at some point so I want to be prepared.

What I have at home is a small aerobic barbell that will hold upto about 50lbs, 5 and 8lb dumbells, and a bowflex machine. I'm considering getting some of those dumbells at Target that are adjustable from 5-50lbs each (Like the bowflex version just a poormans version!) at some point too.

Thanks!