HI All -

Thanks for those insights, Karen - I too have been following the thread on L&S and sometimes feel that I'm in the slow lane compared to people over there - is it maybe a guy thing? They really seem like they're all in a huge hurry. Maybe we chicks are more aware of the inner journey as well as the physical one.

One of the things I am so excited about with this program is that between BFL and reading over on the Krista Smash website, it's like this great big "Aha" moment...NOW I get it. So I'm thrilled that not only am I seeing week-to-week progress with my body responding to the new regime, but I know how to live and still be the shape I want to be.

Great discussion - thanks!

BethO

Well, I'm speaking as someone who has never done CPB and AFAIK, never will. But I completely understand that point that was made: why cant't CPB be discussed in a rational, pros/cons manner just like any other program out there?

It's tough to criticize BFL over at L and S; it seems like if a person complains or is upset over so-so results, they're made to feel that it was their own fault. But geez, at least we can point out perceived flaws of the plan (ex:many regulars do not do the empty stomach for weights) without getting pounced on by Bill Phillips wannabes.

If you mention Leanness Lifestyle, which is quite similar to CPB as far as loads of cardio and calorie tracking/restriction, it immediately gets torn apart; you are warned you "will lose muscle". BodyRX? Oh ho-hum, a few people do okay but life without cardio isn't worth living, right?

But in yesterday's thread, all rationality left the building; I saw people hysterically defending a program they hadn't even done! Offering to pay double and triple the rates and they hadn't even signed up?

I'm sure Pam is a wonderful person, but I don't think she is doing this out of the goodness of her heart any more than Bill Phillips, Scott Connelly, Keith Klein or David Greenwalt is. And it's sad that even commenting on the cost provokes the reaction that one just dissed Mom, the flag, and apple pie.

Laura

Hey! I just discovered that Krista Smash is right here in Toronto! She apparently just finished a PhD at the university I'm taking courses at, and does personal training sessions! How cool is that! I think I know where I'm aiming for Challenge 2...

BethO

Mel, your comments over on L&S about CPB were great! But the reaction was typical I guess. Now that I understand what CPB is all about, thanks to you and Mrs. J, I'd no more pay that kind of money for a cyberprogram than I would for a magic diet potion.

I find it interesting that Erik is doing CPB, free probably, and at the same time, being the personal liason between Dr. Connelly and the rest of us who work on BRX. Must be tough to keep the adoring fans, (us), from knowing what the good doc is up to, even from knowing what the **** is actually wrong with him!

Personally if I were to pay anyone from L&S to 'train' me, it'd be Cnik..but I don't have to, cause Barry graciously gives me help for free.

What's more? I eat whole eggs, the yolk included, NOT just 4500 eggs whites at a time. *S*

Congrats Mrs. J on your surgery, I hope you heal well and look fab!

Good morning,
 

I missed the L&S fireworks! Maybe I'll catch up today.

My personal perspective, at 49 I have been on so many diets, lost and gained, yadayadyada for so long that I am jaded. I need to sustain enough enthusiasm to keep on track, but much more than that and I can turn into a raving lunatic, compulsive, and not very happy. If I am working on it, can tell I am smaller than I was a month ago, well then I feel skinny. Of course I'm not, but if my clothes are loose and I feel strong and healthy then I am as good as there. Well, not totally true, there will be random days that I feel like a cow, but they are random - not every day.

Been struggling to workout, but so far this week I am spot on. Things are good.

Hi everyone!
 

Well, having started a semi-war yesterday on L&S I felt a little gun shy here, too. I'm one one Pam's walking wounded. Yes, I had "success" on the plan and managed to drop 7 scale pounds in 8 weeks, which is the ONLY weight I've lost in 1 1/2 years of BFL and Camp PB type programs, but the net result was a sense of total failure, constant hunger, muscle loss, and a return to destructive eating behavior disorders that I thought were behind me 15 - 20 years ago. It is not a sustainable way of life, and the rebound effect is nasty. As Karen said, it is a comp or pre-comp diet and if you are not aiming for a short term goal (comp, wedding, whatever), IMO it's just another yo-yo diet. No one who achieves low body fat for comps can keep it there- Pam herself is having problems. The short-term effects are exciting- which is why you see those exuberant posts on L&S ( "I lost 8 lbs my first week!"). Yeah, but you also did 5-6 days of cardio, up to 60 minute sessions, and in my case ate as low as 850 calories some days. Aside from the extra cardio, the workouts are standard 4 day splits that you can find anywhere.
IMO, which I guess I've made overly clear, finding a good local trainer and doing lots of research on nutrition to find what works for you is the way to go. Yeah, I pay more per hour on an occaisional basis for my sessions with my trainer, but I get more out of it. He is always available to answer a quick question in the gym or by phone without charging me every time I talk to him, helps me with my nutrition as part of the fee, talks to ME rather than sending out the same bulk emails to 150 clients, and has a whole lot more BB trophies from himself and clients than Pam. I just feel I got taken.

Enough of that. Had killer shoulder and calf workout yesterday, and 1/2 assed abs. First time I've really pushed shoulders HARD since having rotator cuff problems a few months ago. Felt great to get back to the big-boy dumbells for presses. Asked one of the regulars to spot me on my last set of presses which I barely squeaked out, but it felt great when I finished and he said "yow! that's a lot of weight- only 10 lbs lighter than I use on my last set!". My shoulders feel a little sore, but good sore, not hurt. Yipee!

Today I have a session with my trainer scheduled to do legs, so I won't be walking after 3:30 :lol: His pet project seems to be to find the limits where I complain. hasn't yet ;) I may fail, but I won't complain. :D

bye and thanks for the support :grouphug:

mel

Jeez you guys. This is why I LOVE this board! I just gotta say that I wish I was as BRAVE as Mel. It takes courage and guts to stand up against the majority of posters. I am totally in your corner - I believe we all are here!

The thing I want - what I want for EVERYONE - is to be happy and free of having to worry, obssess, etc about food. Just be able to eat healthfully - without having to think too much about it. That was the neat-o thing about BFL for me - it's basically a 12-week 'let's learn how to eat and train, and at the same time live a normal life'. Let's face it - there will always be good food out there. In fact, in my job doing meetings, I HAVE to go out to dinner quite often - and since we are a large group we usually have a set banquet menu. So having the option of a Free Meal or Free Day is good. The key to this (or anything else) is making it WORK FOR YOU, to have it fit into your own personal lifestyle. Of course you need to make changes - you can't expect change without making change - but the beauty of BFL is the fact that doing it 'by the book' you can get the workouts done in less than an hour a day, and just eat 'regular food', albeit six times a day. (which I always maintain is what most people do anyway - they just 'forget' about those snacks they get out of the vending machine or the Girl Scout Cookies they just scarfed down!)

Whew! Let me add 10 cents about a trainer vs. CPB, because that was being used as a comparision at the L&S board 'debate'. It's true that there are a ton of bozos out there - but the good ones are out there if you look. Kind of like trying to find a plastic surgeon - you're making a big investment in your health, so you want to do as much research as you can before you decide on the right one. Krista actually has a great article on this at her site at http://www.stumptuous.com/personaltrainer.html (BTW I love that Krista has so much valuable, unbiased info on her site that is totally free - she doesn't seem to be pushing an agenda other than "GIRLS MOVE THOSE WEIGHTS AND GET STRONG!!" :lol: )

When I used a trainer last year, I knew it was just to get an idea of form and some feedback from an experienced, knowledgable person. Of course around these parts all the REALLY GOOD trainers seem to be located in the East Bay or San Jose - darn it!).

As far as Leanness Lifestyle or Body RX is concerned - I don't know much if anything about 'em - I actually have the BRX book around here somewheres but finding time to read it...aack. But ya know, we all have to do what works for us and will keep us happy, HEALTHY and fit. Weight training is, for all of us I think, a main building block to this - that's why I asked Suzanne to change the name of this forum from Body For Life to Body For Life/Bodybuilding. Just a bit of trivia for ya :)

Getting back to the topic of the thread at L&S...just wanted to say that ROBB IS DE MAN! Gotta love him for saying what he thinks and the heck with toeing the party line...Mel if you ever get a chance to meet him personally I would give him a BIG HUG if I were you! Whadda guy! :strong:

Well back to life here...day #2 post surgery gym workout - I did 12 minutes of moderate cardio, then did mostly upper body - 2 sets of 12 reps for each body part, and a little lower body. I hardly ever use machines, but this week I have been. You know, I gotta say I am THRILLED with the results of my surgery. I'm looking and feeling better each day! Now I'm just waiting for my doctor to let me stop wearing the MONKEY BUTT SUIT (i.e. the garment) which is too big now anyway (I keep washing it in hot water and tossing it in the dryer to shrink it up).

Oof! I just noticed the time - 7:30 - I'd better take my shower before the Window Guyz get here! Laters!

Thank you Mel!
 

I've been waiting for months for someone to say something about Camp Pam Brown that didn't remind me of an unmedicated manic depressive in a state of mania. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock the program or the woman. I'm just leery of trying ANYTHING that has SO many enthusiastic followers and no one willing to come forward to say "It's not for me."

I really appreciate your honesty.

Speaking of honesty... Way to go Mrs. Jim! When you are all healed and Gertrude (your binding garment) is in the back of the closet, I'm sure you will have a blast trying on clothes that you couldn't think of wearing before.

AmyJ

Hello, everyone!

Karen--congratulations on getting back the to the gym so quickly! You rock!

This is my second week on BFL and I love it. I was really proud of myself on my free day. I ate what I wanted but didn't binge like I was afraid I was going to do (especially since my monthly visitor arrived the same day). I have found that I'm not crashing and burning in the afternoon like I always do and using splenda really helps with my sweet tooth. I also feel like I'm sleeping better. Okay, enough about me!

I saw that thread at L&S. I don't post over there, mainly because I hate the way their boards are set up. I am UBB's b*tch! :lol: Anyway. Mel good for you for stating your opinions! I agree with you 100% that Pam's program should be open to discussion. Sure she may want to help people, but only a fool would believe that she's not out to make a buck off of it also and there is nothing wrong with that either. It's interesting to know that it's basically a competitors diet. When I lived in southern CA, I used to work out a World's Gym and believe me, bodybuilders didn't go around looking like that all the time (ripped, etc). So like Karen said, there is no way that a person wouldn't end up gaining weight again. I guess my point is that a person just starting out that knows nothing about bodybuilding, etc., may end up being disappointed. And not to mention any names, but wasn't the person that was arguing with you (and everyone else) the same person that's very against eating a protein bar?

Hope everyone has a great week!

Oh, and I'm going on a cruise from the 15th to the 22nd. Any tips will be greatly appreciated!

wow wow wow. What discusssions!!! GREAT!!!

It's nice to see everyone here (welcome Jonda!!!). :wave:

I started my BFL stint over at L&S and was a very active member of that board 2 years ago. I enjoy all the information and support there.

However, last year when I was really struggling with perimenopausal stuff, medical issues and then life trauma stuff I started to feel like a freak or a bad BFLer. I know I've been at this stuff for 2 years and I'm basically at the same place where I was pre first challenge only I know a lot more stuff. [When we were doing our own bootcamp/challenge/sprint on here last fall, I almost did CPB but I couldn't afford it then and I knew the price was going to go up. I really responded to our 3fc bootcamp/challenge, I had such a great time of it, and would have loved to have finished before I was called to Boston for a family emergency. If anyone is interested in a 3fc/bootcamp/challenge/sprint, let me know! I'd be up for it again. We had a separate thread and a daily checkin.]

Anyway, I always feel safe to come back over here and moan about things. I get very distressed sometimes and being here allows me to be human. I'm not going to knock L&S because I started over there before there was a BFL contingency over here but I like the fact that over here things are less stringent and more accepting of differing viewpoints. :) And you can read into that what you like. I did enjoy the fact that in the beginning L&Sers kicked my butt but I don't need that or any kind judgment now. I have really struggled and I keep coming back.

On my progress topic: I took "before" pictures this week and have been warming up to cardio (my nemesis). I have done 4 straight days of cardio and will return to the gym tonight to start my weight training. I wanted to get into a cardio groove first because I typically hate it and can easily get lost in the weights and give cardio the short shriff. So this way I want to start with cardio first. Since I have a long day on Tuesday (9-9), I've decided that Tuesday will be free day. More later.

Thanks for being here everyone.

Susan

I should keep my big mouth shut and stay outta it over there, but damn I just hate that cult-like mentality!

So I'm asking questions. If they ban me, they do. But damn why not let people like Mel speak who've not had great experiences w/CPB? Do they realize just where this info comes from??

I think that the reasons I didn't sign up was 1) I couldn't afford it at the time 2) I was having a good bootcamp over here and 3) I didn't know what it WAS. I went onto the website and couldn't tell if it was going to be a comp diet or a more refined BFL or what. I was NOT ready for a comp diet but I was definitely ready to tighten up my BFL routine/food plan. I couldn't tell what I would be getting for that money. I don't want a comp diet, but I would like a trainer to change up my sets (I get very regimented) or to just be there. I remember doing ab work with a trainer at my gym and he really kicked my butt. I couldn't believe how sore I was. I tried to continue his routine but it's hard without someone right there. On the other hand, I have a dear friend who is a personal trainer and to be honest, she is BARELY there with her clients. I've worked out around her when she is doing one on one training and you can tell she is just going through the motions. It's hard to find a good trainer but I think that if I have a trainer, I would like MY goals and expectations to be met, not theirs or to sign onto some plan that is way beyond what I can manage.

And it begins...*S*

oh boy
 

I can't even get the messages to come up, but I see the war still rages over there. Pam emailed me this am. Guess I better not go to the lift this year. or ever. mel

Well gosh Mel, I was hoping you'd drive down there with me! :(

I really wish that you felt like you (or any of the others who have been unsatisfied) could just tell her what didn't work for you. I just feel like people at L and S should know that no program works for everyone, but so far, no one is stepping up and saying that their CPB experience was less than stellar.

Laura