My arms are too big
 

I am one who tells any woman LIFT! You will not bulk up. And it's true! It's very, very difficult for a woman to bulk up with lifting.

So why am I? :?:

My arms a flipping huge! I thought it was fat. I keep waiting for them to shape up. I caught a glimpse of myself doing the pec fly this morning and holy shoulders, triceps, and biceps. HUGE! I want small very defined arms, not muscle man arms. :no:

My friend laughed at me. She agreed it's all muscle. She's noticed it for a while apparently. :( She said less weight. Yeah, sure. I get that. One, I don't wanna. :rofl: Two, how do I undo what I've done?:^: Wait for them to atrophy? That's insane.

You are not alone Eliana! If I had a nickel for every time someone told me that women do not bulk up, I'd have enough saved for lipo, a boob-job and a trip someplace warm to show off the work! When I was doing a lot of lifting (and by a lot, I mean 3 or 4 times a week for an hour) my pecs actually became square like a guy's. Freaked me right out. I think your friend is right: the theory is less weight more reps will tone without adding to the muscle body. I have a friend who complains that are arms are too skinny. 8) Ya' gotta learn to love what you've got.

BTW, good for you for having all that muscle! It keeps your bones strong!

There are different types of fat, fat that surrounds muscle and fat that is interwoven with muscle. So you may still need to lose the fat that is interwoven in the muscle. Also, when you lift weights, your arms tend to retain water for a period of time. And lastly, you should realize that flexed muscles definitely look bigger so if you are working your muscles, then yes they will appear bigger than at rest.

You still have 20 lbs to go, I don't know, I'd just go with it to see what happens and yes you could lower the weight and let them atrophy.

Flippy-- can you define "tone" for me?


You can do 2 things to a muscle--- make it bigger, or make it smaller. You cannot change the SHAPE, or the length of the muscle...its part of your genetics. "toning" is a made up magazine word that appeals to women who fear "bulking".

Definition of "tone" :

tonus
[tō′nəs]
Etymology: Gk, tonos, stretching
1. also called muscle tone. The normal state of balanced tension in the body tissues, especially the muscles. Partial contraction or alternate contraction and relaxation of neighboring fibers of a group of muscles hold the organ or the part of the body in a neutral functional position without fatigue. Tonus is essential for many normal body functions, such as holding the spine erect, the eyes open, and the jaw closed.
2. also called tone. the state of the body tissues being strong and fit.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.

Originally Posted by mkroyer:
You can do 2 things to a muscle--- make it bigger, or make it smaller. You cannot change the SHAPE, or the length of the muscle...its part of your genetics. "toning" is a made up magazine word that appeals to women who fear "bulking".

Kind of true, but certain types of exercise are more likely to create short fat muscle. Pilates and other exercises for dancers and gymnasts are designed to strengthen muscle without making it bulky so that you get a long, lean muscle mass. A ballet dancer needs to get strong and still look like a gust of wind might blow her down, so they tend to concentrate on things like pilates.

I want to be strong and look like a gust of wind might blow me down!! :D Sign me up!!

LOL!

Too bad I have the grace of a cow. :rofl:

Originally Posted by RoseRodent:
Kind of true, but certain types of exercise are more likely to create short fat muscle. Pilates and other exercises for dancers and gymnasts are designed to strengthen muscle without making it bulky so that you get a long, lean muscle mass. A ballet dancer needs to get strong and still look like a gust of wind might blow her down, so they tend to concentrate on things like pilates.

This is body fat levels, not "short" muscle. Muscles are the same on everyone, you can't lengthen it anymore than you lengthen your leg. The difference is that people like ballet dancers keep their diets diet and have much less bodyfat

Eliana -
Can I vote for loving yourself for what you can do and not being to stressed about size? You've said you love to work out and feel strong, so go with that and see where it takes you. You are making good progress, weight-loss wise and increasing fitness and health-wise, so I say count your blessings and be happy with the awesomeness that is you.

Originally Posted by sacha:
This is body fat levels, not "short" muscle. Muscles are the same on everyone, you can't lengthen it anymore than you lengthen your leg. The difference is that people like ballet dancers keep their diets diet and have much less bodyfat

I concur, I am a bit wary of showing pictures of people online without their permission but there is a girl at my CF gym who looks like she could be a ballet dancer. She has a very low body fat and lifts heavy. I was mad last night because I used 83 lbs for our back squats and saw she used 93 lbs. If only I had known, I would've tried 93 lbs. Anyway, she lifts a lot of weight and is one of the stronger female members at our gym but she is very thin. Low body fat.

Originally Posted by RunnerChemist:
Eliana -
Can I vote for loving yourself for what you can do and not being to stressed about size? You've said you love to work out and feel strong, so go with that and see where it takes you. You are making good progress, weight-loss wise and increasing fitness and health-wise, so I say count your blessings and be happy with the awesomeness that is you.

Awe, thank you. :^: I WAS really proud of my arms until this morning. I guess I thought I had melting fat and that once the fat was gone I'd have these small but muscular arms. So when I saw all muscle I was quite taken back. I have these size small shirts I want to get into and with muscle arms like these it isn't going to happen.

Probably the smartest thing to do is just keep on doing what I am and see what they look like at goal. 20 pounds may well make a difference.

thank you sacha

Sorry, keep their diets in check, not diets diet, LOL. YW girls, I know this is a myth that's hard to break and keeps people from lifting!

Originally Posted by sacha:
Sorry, keep their diets in check, not diets diet, LOL. YW girls, I know this is a myth that's hard to break and keeps people from lifting!

It does, and I agree! I hesitated to post this because of that. I will still tell any woman who asks that women simply do not build muscle the way men do. But I swear I can really pack on the muscle.

Eliana, i hesitated to even bring up the "toning" myth.
Most of the time i keep my mouth shut--- ignorance is everywhere and i cant save the world lol!
But for you, i feel there is hope...... didnt want to take the chance of letting you linger in ignorance

Eliana, if it helps, my arms look a lot bigger while I am lifting and then calm down a little bit the rest of the time. I have to admit that I get a kick out of how muscular my arms look when I am lifting. (shhhh....don't tell anyone, but I wear sleevless shirts to the gym on purpose so I can admire my arms---oh, the shame! The shame! :lol: )

Anyway, I want you most of all to feel good about yourself, but I hope that you will just continue to be amazed by your fabulous body and accomplishments. You are such an inspiration and I think you look amazing.

I posted about the same issue on this forum about a week ago, and got pretty much the same reassurances - you're just not thin enough; it's really all bodyfat plumping up your muscles, and they look much bigger when you're flexing than when you haven't worked out for a while.

I'm here to say that, while those things are absolutely true (anything more than like 15% body fat will make you look bulkier than you actually are), it is also NOT JUST IN YOUR MIND that you may have built an uncomfortable amount of muscle for your own preference. And it is also true that you can build strength without adding as much size by choosing a weight you can lift for more repetitions, or by doing primarily body-weight-resistance (Pilates/Bosu) type training. I was doing the New Rules of Lifting for Women program 3x/week religiously, and, at ~23% body fat currently, had gotten an uncomfortably "bulked up" look to my arms. I decided to back off on the heavy weights to 2x/week for now, and added more High-intensity Interval training as well as Pilates to the mix. Until I get below 20% body fat, I think this will result in a - to me- much more pleasing upper body shape. And trust me, I am continuing to get stronger anyway - I just managed my first completely assistance-free pull up last week.

Good luck, and midwife is right- just look at how far you've come, and how well you're doing. Muscular arms are WAAAY easier to "undo" than weight gain!

neurodoc - I hope you don't feel your concerns were dismissed. I can definitely understand your concerns. I've been noticing somewhat lately that my arms look more prominent immediately after a workout but also know water retention can cause that.

I also think it is somewhat a shame that conflicting messages are put out about women and muscle. Muscle is sexy but then someone starts pointing to pictures of elite body builders and saying that lifting weights will end up with you looking like them. For some women, they might want that and I say more power to them. To the other women, I say you have to understand that those women have been lifting weights for years, sometimes taking 'supplements' which increase muscle mass and are heavily dehydrated to accentuate the muscle definition. It is true that women can build muscle but I don't think that is a bad thing. If you don't want to, then that is up to you. I don't think muscle showing on women is manly, I think it can be very feminine. And yes, muscle is hard to gain, easy to lose so scaling back on weight can cause atrophy. So if at any point, you want to lose muscle, it is easy to do so.

Overall, I wish there was more mainstream embracement of muscle on women. I think it is a shame that the idealized bodies tend to be those of waif like models with twigs for arms and legs. I think muscle is empowering, I think lifting is empowering and that is why I do it. I also recognize that other women may not feel the same way as I do. That is ok too.

Originally Posted by mkroyer:
Flippy-- can you define "tone" for me?


You can do 2 things to a muscle--- make it bigger, or make it smaller. You cannot change the SHAPE, or the length of the muscle...its part of your genetics. "toning" is a made up magazine word that appeals to women who fear "bulking".

How is toning a made up magazine word if it's in the Mosby's Medical Dictionary as a perfectly good word to use for describing muscle?
It's also in Webster's dictionary: normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus

I frequent a predominantly male exercise forum and they use the word tone all the time to describe muscle. Why is it an issue on this forum?? :?:

ddc - 'tone' is somewhat of a dirty word because magazines tend to sell the theory that there is a difference between 'toning' and building muscle. So 'toning' is for women, 'build muscle' is for men when truly, there is no difference.

Yeah, that's how I've always heard it:

Horses sweat, men perspire, ladies glow.

Men build muscle, ladies tone.

ddc, I want the muscle in your avatar. ;) That's the arm I'm going for! I DO want muscle, but I want a small arm too. When at rest I want small and when I'm working I want a nice large mound. I think muscle is very sexy.

I think I just need to be patient and wait and see what happens. While I don't feel any fat on the bicep I think there is some in the tricep. There's more to melt, I'm sure of it.

But dang, what an image in the mirror! I too wear sleeveless shirts at the gym so I can admire myself!! LOL!

Eliana - have you actually taken measurements? Mirrors are very deceiving.

Originally Posted by nelie:
Eliana - have you actually taken measurements? Mirrors are very deceiving.

Yep. Haven't lost an inch in a long, long time. But I have gone from 14 inches down to 12.5. It's just been 12.5 since April-ish.

It definitely sounds like you are transitioning and since you haven't gained any inches, that seems like a good sign, no? Even though yes I know you want to lose them.

Thanks Eliana :o
When I took that photo (in May, I think) I was probably still 26-ish% body fat, but I tend to store my fat in my lower body. I still have the stubborn underarm flab :mad:
At that time, I was following a dvd workout by Margaret Richard called Sculpture. It's a killer upper body workout. I don't care for the lower body section of the workout though. Anyway, I use 3 and 5 lbs dumbbells. And I would call it high reps. So, I don't know if you might want to go that route for awhile. Also Jari Love's dvds are low weight/high rep.
Oh, btw, I just measured my upper arm and it's 12" unflexed. So, really not much different than yours.

Good luck to you. You've made tremendous progress so far! Good job :D

Was JUST going to post a new thread on this 'til I stumbled across this thread...my thighs are freakin' HUGE and 2 weeks ago, I was almost back into my size 6 jeans very comfortably and this week, my thighs feel "swollen" and very tight fit (tighter than several lbs ago).

I tend to build muscle in my calves/thighs very easily, not so much in my arms. However, I do NOT aspire to have arms like Madonna or even worse, the new pictures of Cameron Diaz. For me personally, I don't think that would be attractive. I still want to look "soft" in a sleeveless dress.

I am giving Visual Impact for Women by Rusty Moore (founder of Black Book for Fitness) a go and leaving Jillian behind for a while.

He swears that women can bulk up to a degree that they are unhappy and it is not all that hard to do if you are doing the wrong exercises. It is obvious from the results thus far that squats and the elliptical are my enemy if bulking up is not what I want.

He also believes that lifting to failure (or even at 10 reps to failure) is another thing to not do, stop at the point that you become aware 5-10 more reps would be difficult.

He said cardio has gotten a bad rap over the last 6 yrs when it is exactly what a female needs (HIIT specifically) in her fitness routine. I will be doing this for several weeks, it's a 12 week program and let you know if I notice a difference.

Niecy, interesting. That almost goes against everything I have been doing. :D LOL! Since I started this thread, which was about how big my arms were, I can honestly say I am now quite proud of my arms. But I like a little roundness to them, as in GUNS! I think they're soft when they're relaxed, but boy can I pop a muscle! I've achieved my arms by lifting heavy, 6 reps up to 15 reps, and usually to failure.

As for cardio, yeah I agree. Cardio has gotten a bad rap and that makes me sad. I think cardio and lifting both have their place. Cardio has helped me possibly with weight loss but mostly with my BP, my HR and my heart health over all. I think I probably have a really strong heart. And all that translates to more endurance for daily activities like walking up and down a hill to sled with my kids, running Christmas decorations up and down stairs, hiking, dragging in groceries, etc.

I'm always interested in these threads, because I have "big arms" too. But here's the deal for me: as I lost weight, my skin shrunk much better in some places than in others. (I am 43.) The skin on my back, butt and legs is pretty good and tight, better than I expected! The skin on my belly -- well I don't remember who else brought it up around here. Let's just say in an upright position I look pretty good, but when I'm doing pushups OMG you don't want to know what kind of weird way it sags.

The skin on my arms shrunk to a certain extent and then stopped. Over periods of lifting and not lifting I came this conclusion: I can have upper arms that are 12" around and flop visibly when I gesture -- and I'm a teacher, so I gesture a lot, in front of lots of people -- or arms that are 12" around and don't flop because there are muscles inside. And I have decided to do the work for the not-floppy.

And the measurements really are the same -- I have a mole which is a handy marker for the tape. So something in there is "bulk" or "tone" or whatever you want to call it that is firm, not floppy.

I suppose if I had to categorize a look I am going for, it would be a dancers' body. Definitely not a ballet dancer, a little too lean for my liking, but like one of the "Dancing With the Stars" type physique.

If I didn't feel like such an idiot dancing alone in my living room, I would do it. I used to go to clubs back in my 20's and I have to say, it kept me very fit. So I have to deal with a treadmill at this point.

I do agree, lifting/strength training/resistance is a much needed component. I won't say any of us could ever begin looking extremely "manly", it would seem steroid usage or some other hormonal supplement would have to be in the picture for that, but I've used this term here before on another thread, I have such short legs that a good deal of muscle would in my eyes begin to make me look "squatty" or possibly even a little stout in the lower body. Should have realized to stay away from the squats! :dizzy:

i'm totally fine with my muscle getting as big as it wants. i just want to SEE the muscle. aside from being in a bathing suit (which hasn't happened in a really loong time) muscle on my arms is a passing thought. i do push ups or lifting with my arms rarely. i can feel the muscle, my arms have shrank considerably. i really just don't care that much about my arms. once i put on a t-shirt i look fine.
legs on the other hand. that's all i ever post about. all the workouts are focused on legs and cardio. i want to see muscle when i where shorts. i want to be proud to wear shorts this summer. and darnit it's going to happen. real shorts, not those darn burmudas because i hate my knees.

i'll never have that dancer's body. totally at piece with that. i just want to look fit :) and i'm on my way :D

I've read if you want to increase muscle size, you have to lift heavy with short reps and have a calorie surplus to rebuild the muscle. So I'm thinking if you want smaller arms you should lower the weight and increase the reps.

In my own experience, I recently bought free weights and I was lifting 10 lbs. I increased the the weight to 15 lbs for my normal routine and yes my muscles got way biggger, but in a way that I wasn't aiming for.

I wanted to decrease the size of my arms, and it seemed that increasing the weights really bulked them up. They looked swollen, so I've dropped back down to just bodyweight exercises (like pushups, dips, etc.)

They have gone down considerably but are still muscular. And when I get back to weights, I will lift only 10 lbs for my arms, because I'm going for a lean muscular look.

Keeponmoving, I had the opposite experience. Yes, they bulked up initially, which is why I started this thread. I was disappointed with what weights were doing to my arms. But I noticed around this forum that all the avatar pictures I most admired were from our heavy lifting women! So against my own judgement, I started lifting even heavier. The fat has now left and what remains is a nicely sculpted muscle on a lean arm that only "pops" when I want it to.

This is wut i was so concerned about. I really want nice leaned and toned arms. Apparently, ive been useing bricks LOL

yes bricks...

since i dont have any weights at home.

So would a 10lb weight be good to lean in those arms? o-o;

Originally Posted by D O L L:
This is wut i was so concerned about. I really want nice leaned and toned arms. Apparently, ive been useing bricks LOL

yes bricks...

since i dont have any weights at home.

So would a 10lb weight be good to lean in those arms? o-o;

Since starting this thread, I actually INCREASED the weight I was using and my arms slimmed down. I just needed to be patient and wait for the remaining fat to disappear. My arms are now 11 inches in diameter and I am very pleased with that. :D

Originally Posted by Eliana:
Since starting this thread, I actually INCREASED the weight I was using and my arms slimmed down. I just needed to be patient and wait for the remaining fat to disappear. My arms are now 11 inches in diameter and I am very pleased with that. :D

oh wow gratz!

cuz i know we have to put in cardio to burn the fat around the muscle. I though increasing the weights will make ur arms look bigger lol

Originally Posted by Eliana:
Since starting this thread, I actually INCREASED the weight I was using and my arms slimmed down. I just needed to be patient and wait for the remaining fat to disappear. My arms are now 11 inches in diameter and I am very pleased with that. :D

so glad to hear this :carrot: heavy lifting rocks. I love what it does to my body

Visual Impact for Women
 

Niecy, how did Visual Impact for Women go for you? I'm up in the air on it, trying to decide if I want to try it. I can't find Rusty Moore's credentials and I don't like just following any blog that I'm not confident is accurate information. There don't appear to be any real reviews out there, only plugs for the book.