Supersets, really?
 

Hi all,

I've just finished reading the "New Rules of Lifting" and for the most part I liked it and found it very intuitive--for one thing, it is completely consistent with the regimen you guys helped me to set up for myself. :)

I'm puzzled about the supersets though, and I'd like to be either convinced that I need to do them, or given alternate ways of mixing up my workout. The NRL suggests supersets such as squats/lat pulldowns. In my gym, those are on opposite sides of the weight area. I'd have to set up the squats, do a set, walk all the way across the gym, set up the lat pulldowns, do a set, walk back to the squats and hope that someone else hasn't jumped in, etc etc. It sounds very awkward and slightly confusing to me. Plus, I've become very comfortable with my upper/lower splits...

Are supersets really the best/only way to mix things up? As I've mentioned, I've basically been doing the same stuff since the beginning of June. I like the compound exercises, I like the upper-lower splits, but I have stopped progressing so quickly and I feel I'm getting a little stale. What about switching up my rep/set routine? I pretty much always do 3x10-12; when I can do 3x12, I increase my weight. Are there ways to mix up the reps/sets that will give my body a new challenge and keep it on its toes?

Thanks for your suggestions!

I haven't read NRL...it's on my list, but that's a long list these days. I love using super-sets for lots of different reasons, but personally I would NEVER do lat pull downs or any other back exercise when I'm doing leg exercises. I like upper/lower splits or push-pull splits or body group splits.

I use super-sets for a variety of reasons:

• to speed up a workout (throw in a set of abs after each set)
• to pre-exhaust a muscle group (do step-ups before you do squats)
• to completely exhaust a muscle group (do squat jumps after you do squats)
• to increase endurance (do squats, step-ups and squat jumps)
• to do mini-circuits which accomplished all of the above (squats, one legged deadlifts, bosu jump squats, rest, repeat)

Unless I'm training for power (which I don't anymore), I always do super-sets and/or giant sets. The set-rest-set-rest get kind of boring after a while. If you've just started in June, you might enjoy adding a super-set to a few of those exercises, but I wouldn't get too crazy yet. If you like upper/lower splits, you can easily super-set either the same muscle group (step-up, squats or db chest press and pushups) or the opposing (chest press- one arm row, squat-hamstring ball pulls).

Or another way to superset without putting a lot of load on the muscles is to add a lighter balance exercise after a heavy weight exercise. For example, pullups (assisted or not), then a lighter one arm row than usual on a bosu ball.

Super-sets aren't the only way to mix things up, but they do help. You can also look at balance exercises or plyometrics if your joints are up to it.

HTH,
Mel

The reason that this is very consistent, at least pertaining to the part of the advice that I gave you previously is because Alwyn Cosgrove (along with Mike Boyle, Chad Waterbury, Brooks Kubik, and some others) is someone I have been heavily influenced by.

You don't NEED to do them. You should try to understand why they were included in the program and then make a decision from there whether or not they are a fit for you based on the goals you are looking to achieve and, of course, the equipment and facilities you have available to you. You didn't specify which particular program you were referencing, but for Alwyn uses them heavily to create what he likes to call "Afterburn" or Metabolic Disturbance. These are terms to describe EPOC which is Excess Post-Exercise Oxygen Consumption, which is basically the scientific way of describing the level at which your heart rate remains elevated in the hours following exercise. EPOC is heavily linked to intensity. The EPOC after an aerobic bout has been found to be minimal, while an intense anaerobic bout has been seen to creat EPOC for up to 36-48 hours. Alwyn tries to maximize EPOC by getting you to do as much work and at as high an intensity as possible while keeping the workout to a reasonable time. He likes to accomplish this through supersets, and in particular he likes to use different muscle groups to allow the first group to recover while the second group is working. This allows you to go heavier than you would normally be able to and since intensity is the % of your 1RM that you are working at, this means you are not only increasing the amount of work that can be accomplished by the superset but are increasing the intensity as well.

It is not the only way. You can increase the amount of work you are currently doing in your workout, simply by reducing the rest periods (although this likely will cause you to work at lower intensity).

Equipment availability is always an issue. You can always substitute exercises in these cases to make things work and it is all dependent on your availability. Unfortunately the others of NROL or any program not specifically tailored to an individual will have to base their programs on average facilities. In this case, if your facility has a power rack that either has a top bar that can be used for pullups or has a pullup bar attached or has a pullup bar near by, you could do pullups or assisted pullups instead of the lat pulldowns.

Take your time and read through the book a few times. Don't focus so much on the workouts, focus on the explanations and the underlying principles. If you can determine why the particular program was designed in the manner it was, that is actually far more valuable then the program itself.



hmmm. I don't like the word "comfortable". Training is all about going beyond your comfort zone. However, I think you mean that you mean that from a physiological and psychological standpoint, you have found upper/lower splits to be a better fit for you at this time. In which case, you need to find an upper/lower split that will both challenge you and direct you toward your current goals. There may or may not be one in NROL. Or once you have become more familiar with the elements of program design by reading the thoughts of people like Lou and Alwyn among others then you will be able to design or adapt programs of your own to suit your needs.

Like most things in training as in life, "it depends." It may or may not be based on your goals and the reasons they are included. As Mel's post pointed out, there are many different reasons to utilize supersets. Some of which or none of which you may find applicable at any given time due to changing goals.

You can change exercises, you can change orders of exercises, you can change set/rep schemes, you can change the tempo at which you lift. There are many different ways. Since you are still fairly new, I'd probably start by just rotating in some new variations of squats, deadlifts, rows, etc.

Hi guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I’ve been giving this quite a bit of thought because I’m not entirely sure what I think I should be doing at the gym at the moment (and actually, I’m not sure what I should do at the gym TODAY!) and I’ve been trying to think it through.

I got that. It has worked out very nicely. :) The main thing I like about the book is that it does try to give you the principles behind the whole thing, unlike the Body Sculpting Bible, which has lots of exercises and almost NO principles. I want to accumulate the knowledge that will allow me, like Mel and Depalma, to switch up my workouts frequently, but for this, you really need to have a strong grasp of the principles underlying the system. I’ll go back to the book as I try to sort everything out. It really is a very helpful book.

So here’s where I am with everything. I keep losing weight and I’d like to stop so I’m trying to cut down on cardio a bit and put more of an emphasis on the weights. The upper/lower splits have worked for me because I go to the gym, run for 30 minutes, and then spend about 20 minutes doing weights. But I have been forced to acknowledge that the running is taking away from the strength training and that I should be doing cardio and weights on different days. Radical, I know.

So I’m wondering if, given that I need to split cardio and weights, FBWOs aren’t perhaps better than upper/lower splits, if for no other reason than that I’ll do more work on each half of my body this way: say 3 times a week with 2 or 3 days of cardio. The FBWO might also work better with my schedule at the moment.

I went ahead and did a version of the Fat Loss I supersets in the NRL book the other day. This was squats/DB rows; deadlift/military press; lunges/ball crunches. 3x15 of each with 75 seconds rest. 75 seconds is a very long time! I definitely lifted longer sets with heavier weights than I ever have before, because of the rests and upper/lower supersets. And because the weights were heavier and there were more reps, I got really high heart rates followed by rapid drops, so I noticed the HIIT effect too.

So perhaps I’ll go ahead and try 6 weeks or so of this Fat Loss I program with the full body, with my own variations of the exercises. I figure it’s worth a shot. The first day was fine; for the second day I think I’ll do something like this: Squat/lat pulldown; Deadlifts/DB incline press; Lunge/crunch.

All the variation is in the upper body sets, because I’m just starting with the crown prince deadlifts (i.e., the regular ones) and I’m still suffering and progressing with the lunges and because my one tangible goal in the gym is to squat my body weight. Actually, will doing different variations of squats help or hinder that goal?

The only thing is that when I do an UBWO, I ordinarily do 2 pulls and 2 pushes: 2 backs, 1 shoulder, 1 chest. Will my upper body be getting enough love if I only do rows and military presses one day, and chest presses and lat pulldowns another?

If I do some version of that for 6 weeks or so, then I can reconfigure the supersets to do push/pull and stuff like that.

Sorry for the long post, but thanks so much for helping me think everything through.

I have nothing to add, except to say that I for one am benefiting by you thinking this all through. I suspect that others are too. So keeping asking (and answering Depalma and others :) ) I'm off to check out NRL, having ascertained that yes, indeed, my library does own it.

Oh, how timely. Amazon just delivered NRL into my sweaty little hands a couple of days ago and I'm just now getting ready to dive into reading it. Very cool.

I like supersets for the time-saving advantages. Normally I would do a set, of lets say dumbbell chest presses, rest 45 seconds, then do the next set. Well, by supersetting chest presses and one-arm rows, I follow the 1st chest press set immediately with the one-arm rows, and thus save time.