[Heather]

I did try to find more information on the case that butterfly dreams mentioned, but my google search was a bust. I did find one mention on a blog of someone commenting that they saw someone collapse of a heart attack right after drinking cold water and the paramedics said it could have been a contributing cause, but no other info that really helped put this in context.

Certainly everyone do what you want. It probably won't hurt not to drink icy water after exercising. And maybe it will help. I just think this kind of scary information provided without a lot of context can end up doing more harm than good. Maybe someone will decide, after a workout not to drink water because it's too cold and then have issues as a result of not hydrating properly.

I often hear people on this site say that they no longer listen to research evidence because it all contradicts eath other so why bother. But then we will listen to scary anecdotes and think nothing of it. Maybe it's the researcher in me, but I try to understand where evidence and information comes from. Sometimes the research evidence is contradictory yes, but not so much if you start to understand how the research process works and how it is often mis-reported by the media...

The problem is that anecdotes and stories are less reliable, but because they are so vivid we listen and make our decisions based on them. (and there is a lot of research in psychology that makes this point).

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now. I don't mean to offend any one. It's just that I try to teach my students not to simply rely on anecdotes/stories when they make decisions because of their unreliability.

One final disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor and certainly don't want it to sound like I am dispensing any kind of medical advice at all!

[midwife]

You can vagal and die pooping too.

[Heather]

Originally Posted by midwife

You can vagal and die pooping too.

Midwife -- heh. Yes, I found that information online too!

[Misti in Seattle]

Originally Posted by wyllenn

Certainly everyone do what you want. It probably won't hurt not to drink icy water after exercising. And maybe it will help. I just think this kind of scary information provided without a lot of context can end up doing more harm than good. Maybe someone will decide, after a workout not to drink water because it's too cold and then have issues as a result of not hydrating properly.

I agree completely! I have learned to take anything I read or hear with a BIG grain of salt and check out the facts before I believe it. I just did a small amount of Internet research on this since I have to leave for work soon but I too did not find anything believable or factual.

But like you, I am not medical personnel either and certainly not trying to convince anyone it isn't true. I just personally share your opinion and don't necessarily believe everything I read on the Internet.

And LOL I read that about the pooping too. Be careful, everybody!

[midwife]

I am medical personnel (the midwife in me chokes at this, but it is true! I am educated and licensed and insured...I even have my very own DEA number) and this never came up, either in nursing school or in my primary care graduate level classes.

Is is theoretically possible? I suppose so. It is theoretically possible that an embryo can implant on a spleen and grow to term. It is theoretically possible that my ceiling might crash down on me as I type this message.

Wear sunscreen, use condoms, wear your seatbelts and never drive drunk. Those things are far more likely to prevent death and dismemberment than avoiding ice cold water after exercising.

And please, poop everyday, no matter how many old men have keeled over on the toilet.

[Heather]

Originally Posted by midwife

And please, poop everyday, no matter how many old men have keeled over on the toilet.

[Misti in Seattle]

Originally Posted by midwife

And please, poop everyday, no matter how many old men have keeled over on the toilet.

LOL I was getting worried for a while there!!! Hey we need a better icon for this! Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

[Gardenwife]

Hey we need a better icon for this!

There are some good ones!



You just have to picture them on their commodes.

[Sunnigummi]

I thought the heart has a covering called a pericardium that besides limiting the stretch of the heart (from filling with blood) protects it from such situations. I've had icy water after working out but I think it has to do with internal body heat. If you're overweight, you have more heat than someone lighter than you so that would make the temperature difference more apparent in the case of the overweight individual. I'll look up my physiology books and see what I can find about the heart or ask my advisor - he's good with this stuff.

Also another disclaimer - this is just my opinion, I don't have a medical degree. Take everything with a grain of salt, like Misti said.

[magdie]

I have a question for you. I often throw up after my cardio workout and my DH says it's from drinking water during my exercise. He says if I have an empty stomach and drink a lot of water while I'm on the eliptical, the water will make me feel sick afterwards. Is that true? Is drinking water during or immediately after my workout a reason for feeling sick? I ususally just throw up water since I don't have any food in my belly.
Thanks!

[Beach Patrol]

I know it's possible, but it's RARE. No I don't have a medical degree in any form, shape or manner, but I was a lifeguard for a long while when I was in college, and our water instructor stressed the importance of not getting overheated (easy to do when you're in the hot sun for 8-10-12 hours!!) and if you DO get overheated, drink tepid or just cool water - never ice cold.

When you think about it, it makes sense. After all, haven't you ever taken a little bit too big a bite/lick of ice cream & it went down your throat & suddenly you felt the cold pain in your chest? That's what's happening.

Yup, makes sense!

[Beach Patrol]

Originally Posted by magdie

I have a question for you. I often throw up after my cardio workout and my DH says it's from drinking water during my exercise. He says if I have an empty stomach and drink a lot of water while I'm on the eliptical, the water will make me feel sick afterwards. Is that true? Is drinking water during or immediately after my workout a reason for feeling sick? I ususally just throw up water since I don't have any food in my belly.
Thanks!

That could definitely be what's causing your reguritation. You should have a light snack (preferably protein/carbs) about an hour or so before you work out - something like a banana and a couple of peanut butter crackers or a couple slices of cheese and half an apple. If you're exercising on a totally empty stomach, you're probably not getting the full benefits of your exercise routine. And as hard as we work at exercising, you know we all want the full benefits of our efforts!!

[Gardenwife]

Seems like there are always a few people who get sick when exercising -- the trainers on The Biggest Loser and other fitness shows say it's common.

[BerkshireGrl]

Originally Posted by wyllenn

... Certainly everyone do what you want. It probably won't hurt not to drink icy water after exercising. And maybe it will help. ....

Well, Lillybelle is a RN, and it happened to her, and her doc thought it was a vagal response (though her previous post in this thread now appears to be gone? *Twilight Zone music*)

Anyway, I think it's a fair warning that deserves to be shared. Thank you, Butterfly

There is info out there that I found with Google, including medical studies that document a mild drop in blood pressure and heart rate when drinking just room temp water. Ice water has indeed been found to cause fainting in people, or worse, depending on their health and underlying issues.

There is a natural response in the body to submerging the face in ice water - it stops breathing. It's not so far a stretch to say that taking a big ol' gulp of ice water can shock the insides too, including the heart.

Witness this effect on a boy with heart problems. I bolded some of it.

From the American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology:

http://www.amjforensicmedicine.com

Sudden Death After a Cold Drink: Case Report.

American Journal of Forensic Medicine & Pathology. 20(1):37-39, March 1999.
Burke, Allen P. M.D.; Afzal, M. Nasir M.D.; Barnett, Diane Scala M.D.; Virmani, Renu M.D.

Abstract:
We report a case of sudden cardiac death in a 12-year-old boy after rapid ingestion of a frozen slurry drink. The cause of death was determined to be a cardiac arrhythmia secondary to a previously undiagnosed cardiac rhabdomyoma with associated myocardial scarring. Ingestion of cold liquids has been associated with syncope ["fainting", BG], but not sudden cardiac death. In this case, bradycardia induced by cold-induced vasovagal reflex may have precipitated the terminal arrhythmia. Ingestion of cold liquids should be considered a potential trigger for fatal cardiac arrhythmias in patients with underlying heart disease.

(C) 1999 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.


So, what to do?

Here is a good article from the NY Times on how much water to drink (and what temp)... and it has a recipe for homemade Sport Drink

http://www.nytimes.com/specials/wome...0612_1274.html

Here is a bit of it:
Ideally, two hours before an activity, you should drink about 16 ounces (two 8-ounce cups or a half-liter) of water. Any excess will be lost through urination before the event. But if you do not have to urinate within an hour, drink another 8 ounces. If you cannot drink water two hours in advance, drink 8 to 16 ounces before starting your activity. In either case, continue to drink water throughout the activity, consuming 6 to 12 ounces every 15 to 20 minutes, especially when exercising in the heat. To foster maximum consumption and rapid absorption into the blood, the water should be cool -- from 40 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit -- but not ice cold.

And for magdie, who throws up after drinking water as she works out on her elliptical:

Maybe it's just from all the water bouncing around in your stomach? I noticed that when I exercise on a full stomach (food OR water), I get nauseated too. Maybe try those NY Times tips? Good luck!

[Heather]

Sarah -- Thanks for posting the information. It seems that even in the case you found, they weren't sure of the cause: "cold-induced vasovagal reflex may have precipitated the terminal arrhythmia". And the other literature doesn't implicate death. However, as you noted, I did say it probably wouldn't hurt and might even help to not drink icy water. That seems to be what it boils down to.

My main concern was that people would read about this and perhaps cause themselves worse harm trying to avoid it because of their fears. I think sometimes we don't fear the things we should, and pay too much attention to rare occurences.

Also, I still stand by my claim that as humans, we are very prone to pay attention to vivid information when we make decisions, even if it isn't accurate. Psychologists call this the "vividness effect". And the case that butterfly dreams posted (and poor thing, I think we scared her off! If so, I'm sorry, that wasn't my intent) seemed to be that very thing -- a vivid case, and without a lot of context to boot.

Again, thanks for looking all of this up. It can take a lot of work to be well informed!

BTW, I LOVE the Berkshires! I would love to live in that part of the country again!