48hr fast for autophagy
 

Hi everyone,
Kfunk and I have started this thread as we are attempting a 48 hour water fast to kickstart the process of autophagy and avoid loose skin as we lose weight.

Anyone interested can google autophagy and loose skin. The basic premise is this: After a certain amount of time fasting the body hunts for unused and damaged proteins that it can break down into amino acids and use to sustain itself during the fast. Loose skin counts as unused damaged protein. This means that potentially your body will consume its loose skin during the fast. My own conclusion from the research I've done is that 2-5 days is the sweet spot for autophagy - longer doesn't necessarily mean better... but avoiding all food is necessary. Less than 3g of protein will stop autophagy.

So kfunk I am currently making my last dinner for 2 days!! Butter baked chicken and cauliflower cheese...oh boy I am going to miss food.

Although anyone is welcome to join us I would like to stress that this is not intended to be a competitive thread in any way, nor is it intended to advocate long periods of fasting. Please take into account your own physical and mental state before attempting a fast. We are not offering medical advice or making any judgements on this thread - just support.

I am very intrigued, I have read a lot about IF and some of the science behind it is, IMHO, really solid. I too have read that people who fast regularly do not have problems with lose skin. For myself, I have not fasted for longer than 36 hours, as I am still breastfeeding my toddler. But I definitely want to try longer fasts once I switch my baby to normal milk, which should be around January next year. So I''ll be watching you!

BTW I didn't find my 36 hours fasts any harder than 24 hours. It really depends on how you eat before that - fasting is super easy if you're already on keto, or at least on a very low carb diet. Fingers crossed for you, I think it very likely once you get over 48 hours, you will want to make your fast even a little longer!

Hi ronja, I am eating keto so hoping this will be a smooth transition. I also do intermittent fasting but never longer than about 22 hours so this is a first for me...
I've finished my dinner now so the clock has officially started! In terms of loose skin I'm pretty ok apart from my mommy pouch from carrying my massive babies :( I really don't want that to end up sagging and baggy and I am also a strong believer in the science behind autophagy so I have everything crossed...
Btw, I am also breastfeeding but my 'baby' turned 3 yesterday and only has milk first thing in the morning and last thing at night so I don't think it'll be a big deal for me. I will monitor my milk though and let you know.

Interesting. I had not heard of this and will have to research it.

Good luck MrsMcsMuffins!!! Please tell us how the method works for your skin. I am really curious. I've been looking for a solution for my lose skin that costs no money but I may be too big a wuss to try fasting.

BTW: My "baby" just turned 15 last month! He started at 10.0lbs.

Originally Posted by MrsMcsMuffins:
Btw, I am also breastfeeding but my 'baby' turned 3 yesterday and only has milk first thing in the morning and last thing at night so I don't think it'll be a big deal for me. I will monitor my milk though and let you know.

Wow, congratulations on breastfeeding for so long, it's quite rare! My baby isn't a baby either, she will be 2 in January so perhaps I shouldn't be worried either, but I did notice my supply to drop a little when I'm fasting...hence why I never ventured to make my fasts longer.

I will be happy to follow your fast, if you feel like sharing any thoughts and feelings, it will be very interesting for me. I wish you the best of luck!

Also, I don't even want to go into describing my mommy pouch. Two set of twins, need I say more? I just try not looking down there very often :D

Thanks ronja, I'm just a hippy mommy at heart :) I can't believe I'm admitting this but I actually took photographic evidence of my mommy pouch about an hour ago!! I'm hoping to take another at the end of the fast and monitor for improvements...and share the pics if I'm feeling brave...
Eagleriverdee - definitely look into it if you're curious. I have a biochemistry background and can't overstate how much sense autophagy makes from my perspective. Lots of people describe scarring and skin tags disappearing on these fasts (fingers crossed for stretch marks please God!)
BigFatMomma - I hear ya, the thought of being foodless for days is not pleasant...but it is completely free!! :D

MrsMcsMuffins we seem to have a lot in common, re being a hippie mother :D as well as having some scientific background, though mine is more biological than chemical. Must be why this whole thing makes sense to us. Congratulations on being brave enough to take "before" pictures. Are you expecting visible differences after 48 hours of fasting?

A fellow hippy/science nerd :D Hooray!! There's not enough of us about you know...
I don't think I'll see much of a difference after 48 hours; however, I want the before and after pics as I intend on doing this regularly. So hopefully I'll see a good change over time. I'm thinking once every fortnight but will adjust it dependng on how things go and how I feel afterwards.

mrsmcsmuffins, thank you for starting the thread!! I am eating dinner as I type this. Where are you from? I noticed you had dinner hours ago!

I hope to make it to breakfast on Thursday morning as well, but its nice to have a fall back plan in place if that happens! I once did the Master Cleanse for 25 days, my only cheat was gum. Since I started my journey I have done a couple 30 hour water fasts and it was so hard!! I really hope that having you as a buddy makes it easier!

muffins and ronja can you guys give me examples of the foods you eat while you do keto? I wonder about the sugars in fruit and what other foods are off limits when it comes to meat and dairy. I have heard very good things! I already cut out wheat so that wouldn't be a problem. I am guessing you cant have peanut butter? Its nice to see real life examples instead of what I can find on the internet!

Hi buddy :wave:
I'm in the UK (and just getting up for work - boo) but regardless of the time difference I'll be here to cheer us on.
As for keto yes it does put the brakes on fruit a lot. I only eat berries now. I think that fruit tends to get a lot of good press that it doesn't deserve. Fruit is basically nature's candy, it was designed to be sweet and make us eat more and more of it, and that is a problem for me with fruit, I could quite happily plough through a punnet of peaches in one sitting. It's far far better to get vitamins and minerals from vegetables and avoid all that sugar.
I eat plenty of butter, I fry foods in homemade clarified butter. I pile butter on top of my vegetables (this has actually been shown to increase the vitamins you absorb from veg too). I drink coffee with heavy whipping cream instead of milk (milk's no good on keto - I will have a tsp of milk in a cup of tea but that's my limit). I also count 'net carbs' not carbs so that means I subtract the fibre from a food's carb content as you don't digest fibre. I stay under 40g of net carbs a day but I'm usually naturally under 30g anyway.
A typical day of eating for me would be:
Coffee, no sugar but 2 tbsp heavy cream
2 fried eggs and 2 strips of bacon
A big salad dresses in olive oil and red wine vinegar with a protein like chicken or whatever is leftover from dinner the night before (cheeseburger salad is delish!)
Steak or another meat of choice served with plenty of vegetables covered in butter or gratin'ed, baked in butter, cream and cheese - yum.
3 squares of 85% dark chocolate (not strictly keto as does contain sugar but acceptable in small amounts). I like Moser Roth 85% dark from Aldi, only 4.6g of carbs per 25g of chocolate but that's before I subtract the fibre so it's actually less :D
Btw - yes you can have peanut butter! Yay. I love PB. You can get some great versions made without sugar or make your own. Roast some salted peanuts gently until golden then blend in a food processer intil you get PB. There's some good youtube videos of it.

Good morning!!! Its 7:45 am my time, I just got to work. I am in MN in the US.

I woke up with a grumbly tummy, and am missing my coffee!!!! I am drinking some plain green tea now for a little caffeine boost (I hope that is okay!)

You have been up for quite a while now, how are you holding up?

Thank you for the Keto ideas!! My favorite treat lately is frozen green grapes, they would be difficult to give up! Besides grapes and strawberries, I don't eat very much fruit. I love steak and other meats!! For sugar... do you have a range where you aim to stay under? I think that would be the hardest part, I fear that there is sugar hidden in pretty much everything!

I am pretty good with carbs as it is now, but I am sure I eat plenty of carbs that are in vegetables. And also my coffee creamer, gluten free toast have some, but I think that the toast would be really easy for me to cut out.

How long have you been doing Keto for? Do you think you will keep going with it after you meet your weight loss goal?

kfunk6113 and MrsMcsMuffins how are you feeling, how is the fast going? I woke up today thinking of you. My baby kept me up since 4 am and I really threatened her with formula so that I could get some sleep - and fast :D :D :D I really can't wait to try a longer fast!

wow, so many weird autocorrections, edited for clarity!

Good morning ronja!! I am only hour 14, so I am doing pretty well so far. I am really tired though!! Oh no, I hope that she sleeps well tonight so that you both can get a good rest!!

Hi kfunk and ronja. Well it's 4.30pm here and I'm holding up well :) Not missing food at all and at 6pm I will have hit 24 hours - yay!
Kfunk I'm 100% sure I will stick with keto after I've hit goal yes. I started eating keto 15 years ago age 20 for health reasons as there's a lot of cancer in my family and I know that cancer cells pump out insulin and feed on sugar. I ate keto continuously until I was 29 when I fell pregnant. I had terrible morning sickness and was hospitalized a few times. Also at the time there was some debate as to whether ketogenic diets in pregnancy can reduce the baby's IQ slightly and I didn't want to risk it. I ended up having a second baby and my pregnancy break from keto turned into a full 6 years.... :o
I'm never been as overweight and unhealthy as I have in these past 6 years. It was difficult to admit that I had to go back to keto once I got a taste for sugar back but as far as I'm concerned it's the only way for me.
I don't have a target for sugar because limiting carbs naturally limits sugar. The only thing I would say is I try not to eat more than 10g of net carbs per hour to avoid insulin spikes but as I only eat about 30g of carbs a day that's generally not a problem.

I am glad that you are holding up and that you don't miss food!!! I dooooooooooo, but my mental resolve is strong!!

That is awesome that you will continue with Keto long term!! I am so ignorant when it comes to this subject, but about 9 years ago I had a type of blood cancer, so it is very interesting to me that eating Keto could potentially prevent a reoccurrence! Have you ever noticed any negative impacts from eating more fat in your diet, I guess the only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be high cholesterol?

I am so glad that you are doing this with me, I don't think I would last if I had attempted it by myself :)

You are less than 20 lbs. away from your goal, that must feel amazing!! I can't wait for that day, but at times it feels like it will never get here!

I agree that when you have sugar in your diet, you crave it, I have noticed that my cravings for processed food and other junk food, fast food, etc. has been greatly reduced by eliminating wheat. I still have my moments of weakness, but its not every day anymore lol.

I seem to be hung up on sugar on the keto diet, and I had it in my head that I needed to be looking at the sugar information food labels, but sounds like I can just go by the carb count instead!

kfunk6113 hang in there, you can do THIS! You will be amazingly proud of yourself when this fast is over, I am sure :) Still following you, girls!

Thank you for cheering me (us) on!! I just poked in on your thread and commented, you are doing marvelous!!

kfunk6113 thank you so much! I do try. But you have just inspired me to try for a 36 hour fast tomorrow. I had my diner now at 8 pm (Europe) Tuesday and I will try to fast until 8 am Thursday....water, tea and coffee only! See if I can manage... if not, I will have a light diner tomorrow and make it 24 hours only. But I would like to reach 36.

Go ronja!! Didn't know you had a thread going....I'll pop in and cheer you on :cheer2:
Kfunk, it's the biochemist in me coming out again (and I'm so sorry, I really don't want to blind anyone with science or push my views exclusively) but I believe high cholesterol is pretty much a myth. Cholesterol is very very late to the party in any cardiovascular event. Far far too late to be the culprit in my opinion. Cholesterol is so essential for every cell in our bodies that if we don't eat enough then our bodies actually make more of it. My husband has hereditary 'high cholesterol', we don't worry about it and he sure doesn't take statins! I really feel that there's no compelling science that cholesterol harms anyone and I personally eat plenty of it.
All of my scientific background, everything I know about chemistry and biology all lead me firmly to believe that sugar is the villian of the piece is almost every non-communicable illness known to man. Sugar makes us hungry, sugar makes us fat, sugar makes us ill.
It's your choice kfunk, I'm not telling you how to eat but I would say look at all your options. If you don't feel calorie counting and low fat is working, if you feel hungry, if the weight isn't coming off as you'd like then take a look at other diets. People don't fail at diets, diets fail people. Keto keeps my mood good, keto stops me feeling hungry - it's 8.30pm here so I've been fasting for 26.5 hours now and I feel great. Keto works for me so I don't worry about fat because I'm proving that fat works great in my diet.

MrsMcsMuffins yet again, I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. First they told us cholesterol was bad, then they said there is "good" and "bad" cholesterol while in reality, it's sugar that causes cardiovascular diseases, as well as many other auto-immune disorders. It makes sense both biologically and evolutionally, our bodies are adapted to process fat, while sugar - not so much.

I want to really dive into keto once my Whole30 program is over, but I worry about counting carbs. I know with my lifestyle I need a diet that is mentally simple to follow. When I was on paleo/primal, I just knew what to eat and what to not eat. Counting and monitoring carbs seems like lot of work to me, so I'm not sure if I can do it.

You can do it ronja! I did it for so long (9 years before my break for babies) that I never had to count. I just knew. To start off though you can look at some good visuals on dietdoctor.com - he gives examples of what Xg of carbs looks like in veg or fruit or bread etc. When I feel like tracking I also use cronometer.com and it works it out for me.
It's easier for me to have a list mentality though so things I don't eat and things I do. That helps me naturally stay low carb. So I don't eat bread, cereals, fruit (except berries), potatoes, sweetcorn, etc. If a dish has those foods in it I know I'm not going to eat it and that will naturally lower my carbs without me counting them. I do suggest using cronometer or something similar at first though to get your head around it.

ronja Good luck with your fast!! We have the exact goals in mind. I would like to make it to the morning on Thursday, but if I cant then I will eat a light dinner!!


mrsmcsmuffins Congrats on making it through the day!!! I hope tomorrow is better for me, but I am in a really nasty mood right now. (24 hours in) and feel like I could cry at the drop of a hat. I did have a couple small cups of green tea, is that okay? The rest was water.

You never have to feel the need to apologize, I asked and I enjoy what you ladies have to say!! This is all very interesting. Would it be safe to assume that artificial sweeteners are just as bad as regular sugar?

Is there a big difference between keto and other low carb diets, like aitkins, for example? I have no problem eating the same foods over and over again, so I think that counting carbs might be pretty easy once I get the hang of it. I would be really curious to track a normal week to see what they are before I start trying to cut them. I think that they must have been through the roof before!! Thank you for the links, I will definitely check them out. Do you have any favorite recipes that you sub ingredients out to make them keto friendly?

I think you have inspired me to take some pics of my stomach as well. It would be nice to have something to look back at in the upcoming months.

You ladies will be reading this when I am in bed for the night. I hope you both have a good start to your days!!!

I'm sorry you're not feeling well kfunk. It's ok to eat if you need to. Please don't feel it isn't. I had an advantage because I was in ketosis from my diet before the fast. Listen to your body and don't make yourself ill :hug:
I've just woken up for work and it's hour 37 for me...guess we'll see how today pans out. I bet as a nice side effect of fasting yesterday though that we've lost a pound or so... losing 1lb would take me to my halfway point and my second mini goal...baby steps :)

Sorry kfunk - missed your point about atkins... Well atkins is a ketogenic diet, it's one of the original keto diets going and it was my way into keto when I was 20. I love 'old style' atkins and think Dr. Atkins was a true visionary. 'New' atkins? Not for me. I think Dr. Atkins would be rolling over in his grave right now if he could see his old team recommending protein bars and shakes on the induction phase, eating more carbs or reducing saturated fat. It's a real shame but I think the atkins corp lost a lot of money after Dr. Atkins' death (there were some stupid rumours going round that he died of a heath attack when in fact he slipped on ice and sustained a head injury) and they needed to counter the bad press by paying lip service to the low fat mandates of our time.
So in a nutshell, if you can find an OLD copy of Atkins Diet Revolution in thift then great but I wouldn't sign up to the new atkins programme.
Other than that, you don't need to follow a particular named diet to eat a keto diet. Sign up to a fitness tracker and just track it so you keep your net carbs (carbs minus fibre) below 40g a day. That means basically no fruit except small amounts of berries, no bread or wheat products, no grains of any description, no starchy vegetables like potatoes, corn, yams, etc and no beans. I do love cronometer.com because the default setting on that is 40g carbs per day and it shows you the percentage of carbs, fat and protein in your diet each day. A good ketogenic diet is high fat, not high protein. You need to aim for about 75% of your diet to be fat each day. About 15-20% should be protein and the rest carbs. So you see that's not a lot of carbs!! A good rule of thumb is if a carb is not a vegetable that grows above ground or a berry then don't eat it.

Just a very quick messae (my kids are home from school so there is no way I can sit at my computer) but I will pop in later to check on you ladies. I have been fasting today and so far so good. No cravings, just a few hunger pangs but nothing I can't manage. I have a headache though so I may eat some clear broth later tonight, I will see. STay strong my friends, we can do that, well, you definitely can :)

muffins how is your day going so far? It is about 8am here. Do you think that you will break your fast with dinner tonight, or breakfast tomorrow? I am pretty sure that I will end up making it to breakfast tomorrow, but I will eat dinner if I feel sick when I get home. I have a headache today and I am guessing that comes from caffeine withdrawal.

You are doing so well!!! I can't wait to be back in the 160's! Do you notice a pretty drastic difference compared to where you started at?

Not sure if you saw my questions about artificial sweeteners (diet coke)...

Thank you for explaining about Atkins and Keto. I do agree that it seemed odd that the new style of Aitkins included those things! I have a lot to read about, I know nothing!! I love potatoes, beans, oatmeal will all be difficult to give up, but the rest should be okay.

ronja we were typing at the same time!! I am glad that your fast is going well so far. I also have a headache. I took some Tylenol this morning and also some IBprofin, so hoping that will help soon! I hope the rest of your day finishes up well, mine is just starting!!

Hi ronja and kfunk - hope you're both feeling better now. I'm on hour 46 now and feeling great. Pretty sure I'll make it to tomorrow. That should give me some great autophagy benefits. I might be imagining it but my tummy skin definitely felt smoother this morning so I'm willing to stick it out. I can easily see me doing this on a regular basis.
As for sweeteners, I'm not perfect and I do eat them. I like a can of diet coke occasionally and will bake with stevia. I try and avoid them if possible as I find too many sweeteners cause cravings for sweets and it's true they're not the best for you...

muffins You are doing awesome!! I am pretty sure that I will make it until tomorrow morning. I think this has been a bit more challenging because I was a bit stressed out to begin with. I think it would work better for me to do this on the weekends! That is awesome that you can tell a difference in how your stomach feels!! I am actually trying to cut out diet coke, this has been a battle for me though. It is so good and helps me while loosing weight because it feels like a treat.

Oh my, ladies, you are both amazing!!! You are rocking this!! Thank you so much for inspiring me to get back to my fasting routine. It's now 6 pm and I haven't eaten since 8 pm last night. I'm totally going to make it until breakfast tomorrow, but not longer, I'm still worried about my milk supply and stuff. However I find fasting on Whole 30 really easy so I want to repeat a 24 or 36 hours fast twice a week now!

ronja that is outstanding!!! I am leaning towards starting the whole 30 program myself, I really like hearing about your journey!! Great job!! I love having this support system in place, it makes it much easier!! I will probably be joining you for some of your 24 to 36 hour fasts :)

muffins have you been sticking to water, or have you had black coffee or tea?

Go ronja! You can do it.
Kfunk, it's great you want to go for whole30. Anything that reduces starches and sugars will help drastically.
As for me yep I have been water only. I don't even want to consume anything on the off chance it stops my autophagy - even a tiny bit of protein could stop it - because although the weight loss is a lovely benefit the main aim of this fast for me is autophagy.
But the weight loss is a lovely benefit! I got myself a pair of jeans 2 weeks ago knowing they were a size too small and I couldn't zip them up - they zipped up tonight... and I have noticed the edges of my obliques appearing again so I'm very happy. Just hoping to see plenty of autophagy and no loose skin at the end of this! I'm currently on hour 51 and feeling fine :)

Good morning ladies, hour 61 here and I've just woken for work. The way I'm feeling I might push this to 72 hours (but no longer) and do that once a month. I feel fine. Also ronja my 3 year old is having his morning drink so pleased to report that it's made no difference to my milk supply. It might be because he's older and my supply is well established, I wouldn't fast with a baby, but anyway no difference to my milk at all :)

MrsMcsMuffins wow, that's really impressive! And congratlations on zipping up those jeans, it's things lke this that make all the effort worth the wile. You are quite amazing, really! I just finished my 36 hours and no change in milk supply either, I'm not sure why because in past it was always affected by fasting. Maybe the baby is older, as you say, but I still don't feel comfortable with longer fasting while I breastfeed - perhaps it's now more a mental thing than anything else and I may change my decision in future. For now I want to stick to those 24-36 hours fasts once or twice a week and kfunk6113 it would be lovely if you joined me sometimes. I find it so much easier to stick to my plan when I have support on here. My husband is lovely and very supportive, but both him and my mum want me to be happy and healthy and fasting is a little too unorthodox a thing for them so I don't really talk about it with them and just do my thing more or less privately.