On another post someone metioned the connection of seratonin and carbs. Well, I know enough to know that low levels of seratonin cause depression and I know that I sometimes run into that - especially in winter/darker months because I suffer from Seasonal Affect Disorder (SAD). Well, I did some more searching as that post piqued my interest and how did I not know about the connection between carbs and depression when I experience it myself? How dense can I be.
And what irony - I feel better and it's better for my health if I follow a lower carb diet (lowers my cholesterol, decreases my appetite, etc) YET, it also lowers my seratonin levels so that I probably get even MORE depressed in winter than if I would follow a higher carb diet. AND NO WONDER I can't keep the carb monters at bay in winter when my body is screaming for carbs to boost my seratonin levels in the only way it knows how.
It's almost cruel! I blogged about it today (links to some articles there, but you can also google carbs and seratonin to find tons of stuff on it), but I guess I still need to discuss it more - how do I combat this?
How do I stay on track with eating that WORKS GREAT for me 6 months of the year, but causes derailment in a HUGE way in winter? I cannot do a cycle of gain and lose yearly like this. And once I start eating carbs, I cannot stop wanting and eating more - up to a satiation point - which leads me to gain like 50-60 pounds over the winter!!!! (Even one article said that people with carb cravings eat up to 800 more calories a day than those who are NOT carb cravers). 800 on top of maintenance is 42 pounds in half a year. OMG THAT IS ME!!!!!
I am finally figuring out what my problems/derailments are, but how can I be sure to not get derailed when it's brain chemicals????
Anyone else take seratonin boosters/antidepressants during the winter months. Does it help? Others in the same camp as me?
I don't know about the carb thing. I get mine from fruits, veggies and breads with whole wheat. Back when I ate a ton of simple carbs, I still had the winter blues, so I don't think they're the cure for it...at least, they weren't for me.
The only thing that fixed my SAD was relocation. It's not the reason I moved, but it's the biggest reason that I'm so glad I did. I realize that relocation isn't an option for everyone and am not suggesting you start packing, lol, but nothing else helped.
Winter is a beast. For me, winter is a huge downer and can drive eating. I do not take anything for it, but I'm told light therapy can be immensely helpful. Have you tried that in winter? It might be a less involved experiment than trying a med first. I agree with Stripes though, relocation is nice, IF you can do it.
Winter is a beast. For me, winter is a huge downer and can drive eating. I do not take anything for it, but I'm told light therapy can be immensely helpful. Have you tried that in winter? It might be a less involved experiment than trying a med first. I agree with Stripes though, relocation is nice, IF you can do it.
I have sort of tried it. Two years ago in early April I got one and it seemed to help, but... it was also getting lighter.
This year I didn't use it as I thought my computer RIGHT by window was giving me enough light (it's floor to ceiling and a foot from my work chair). But perhaps I should. recommendation though is to get up early to sit under it. Well, winter already makes me exhausted and need more sleep, so the idea of waking up to sit under a light is, well, super unappealing.
And no way to finagle relocation. My husband is fairly high up in Govt (as an economist and actuary). "My" job might be relocatable, but I have no plans of deserting my husband.
I think it was my post that you're responding to. There are supplements that are the later stages carb digestion such as tryptophan or 5-HTP. My physiology professor told me about them but I would definitely do some research on them and ask your doctor. If you raise your serotonin levels too much you're at risk for serotonin storm which can be extremely dangerous.
My mom takes anti-depressants in the winter to help her deal with SAD. I take high dose vitamin-d because I'm almost always deficient (I get really bad sun rash so I stay covered a lot).
BerryBB, has high-carb eating ever effectively treated your depression? It hasn't mine. In fact, I feel worse all the way around when I'm eating high carb. I feel so much better, physically and mentally, when I go low carb. So I'd take the low carb/serotonin research with a grain of salt. If I were you, I would use low-carb eating to treat your body and light therapy to treat your mind in the winter. Just my 2 cents!
BerryBB, has high-carb eating ever effectively treated your depression? It hasn't mine. In fact, I feel worse all the way around when I'm eating high carb. I feel so much better, physically and mentally, when I go low carb. So I'd take the low carb/serotonin research with a grain of salt. If I were you, I would use low-carb eating to treat your body and light therapy to treat your mind in the winter. Just my 2 cents!
It does make me feel worse, but it does gibve me temporary energy boosts. I literally could do nothing all winter long and sleep about 11 hours a day. The carbs help me push throigh the day and give me a temporary high, but at a huge price.
If I were to up carbs, it would have to be in things like apples and such. Not anything simple as that makes me start something I cannot stop.
Try the light therapy again. You have to start small (30 min-hour) and work up to about two hours if you can. In the morning. And be consistent! Every day! (Though for me monday through friday at work was plenty.) Start in september or whatever month is slightly before you usually feel it.
Diet can treat some things, but its not the end all be all. You're stuck in a catch 22 if you're trying to treat the depression with carbs.
Try the light therapy again. You have to start small (30 min-hour) and work up to about two hours if you can. In the morning. And be consistent! Every day! (Though for me monday through friday at work was plenty.) Start in september or whatever month is slightly before you usually feel it.
Diet can treat some things, but its not the end all be all. You're stuck in a catch 22 if you're trying to treat the depression with carbs.
I don't know Berry, I took Zoloft for years and gained the most weight I ever had...and all a complete carb overload. Pizza, bread, sugar....you name it.
I know there's got to really be some sort of correlation between anti depressants and carbs, but not sure exactly what.
I guarantee you id never go back on them again. Between the gain, the side effects, and the difficulty coming off them, I'd find it hard to believe that's a good answer for you.
When I was 100 lbs overweight, low carb/low fat/low cal was my get out of jail card for 7 months. Now I have a 20 lb regain to shed. Low carb is a sure-fire way to control hunger & cravings, but this last time, my brain didn't function well. I felt tired and listless, moody. I'm not sure if it's low cal or low carb or both that's the issue. Now that I've increased carbs and cals, I feel alert, energetic, happy mood & longer, deeper sleep. But I am still struggling with the extra weight. What to do? I feel like a lab rat in my own experiment!
fwiw....
All SAD lights are not alike. I've tried a few and only one helped--the Sunbox (desk lamp). 25 minutes is what worked for me, and I could surf the web and drink my coffee while using it. There is a specific distance to maintain between the eyes and the light, for best results.
There are different classes of anti-depressants. Even within one class such as the SSRIs like Zoloft, some have different profiles so that if one SSRI has negative side effects, another might not. If SSRIs don't do the trick, there are other meds that work differently.
Fwiw, there is a book called something like The Diet Cure or The Mood Cure in which they discuss the use of amino acids (over the counter) to correct brain chemical imbalances that cause urges to overeat. It has a good website where you can get the gist of it without buying the book. They claim to cue a lot of things--which makes me skeptical, but it's an interesting read. I tried some of the supplements--5HTP gave me insomnia, L-tryptophan made me sleepy (I didn't try it while on low carb).
Back to the dilemma...is there a way to find a balance of low enough carb to prevent craving & hunger but high enough to maintain good mood? Are the carbs in winter an attempt to the boost feel-good chemicals in the brain? Or is it just that the pleasure from those foods is an way to soothe a falling mood? I was thinking that if we crave carbs in winter because our brain is trying to make more serotonin, etc, maybe eating non-triggering carbs would be the way to go. I don't get triggered at all by yams!
fwiw....
All SAD lights are not alike. I've tried a few and only one helped--the Sunbox (desk lamp). 25 minutes is what worked for me, and I could surf the web and drink my coffee while using it. There is a specific distance to maintain between the eyes and the light, for best results.
There are different classes of anti-depressants. Even within one class such as the SSRIs like Zoloft, some have different profiles so that if one SSRI has negative side effects, another might not. If SSRIs don't do the trick, there are other meds that work differently.
...
Back to the dilemma...is there a way to find a balance of low enough carb to prevent craving & hunger but high enough to maintain good mood? Are the carbs in winter an attempt to the boost feel-good chemicals in the brain? Or is it just that the pleasure from those foods is an way to soothe a falling mood? I was thinking that if we crave carbs in winter because our brain is trying to make more serotonin, etc, maybe eating non-triggering carbs would be the way to go. I don't get triggered at all by yams!
Yes, it is true, not all lamps for SAD are created equal. The one I have is the doctor's recommended one and you are supposed to sit within 12 inches of it for best results (for up to 30 minutes).
And yes, on the different anti-depressants. If one doesn't work, I'll try another.
And yes again on which carbs to eat - "IF" I up them, it should be non-triggering carbs used solely for upping my seratonin levels. Not the triggering kinds, but things like whole grain bread (not white bread!), or carrots, etc.
Back to the dilemma...is there a way to find a balance of low enough carb to prevent craving & hunger but high enough to maintain good mood? Are the carbs in winter an attempt to the boost feel-good chemicals in the brain? Or is it just that the pleasure from those foods is an way to soothe a falling mood? I was thinking that if we crave carbs in winter because our brain is trying to make more serotonin, etc, maybe eating non-triggering carbs would be the way to go. I don't get triggered at all by yams!
The only way I found was by experimenting. I don't pay much attention to ratios but my body seems to like eating a few carbs and hates eating too many carbs! The line is blurred but I'm getting better at identifying my own needs. For example, I've tried all kinds of breakfasts, and all kinds of carbs for breakfast. After much experimentation it turns out my biggest energy comes from a big hit of protein, a serving of veggies (not fruit!) and a little bit of crabs either in the form of a slice of toast or a potato, diced and sautéed with onions and peppers. That means I'll make eggs with zucchini or spinach or whatever veg is around, a side of mushrooms because I'm a mushroom freak and potatoes or toast.
Anyway I've experimented with each meal this way to find the right balance. For some reason one of my meals, usually dinner but sometimes lunch I don't need any carbs at all and I don't miss them. It's weird. Probably because I had a satiating amount of carbs earlier in the day - starting my day with restrictions has serious consequences. So no matter what meal I'm eating carbs never account for more than a quarter of the food I'm eating. If I try to limit carbs any more than this there are serious consequences in mood, energy and it sends me back to binge land.
Another thing that keeps this all in balance for me is raw food. When I eat a lot of raw veggies I feel especially great though I haven't figured out yet how much is too much because too much makes me more hungry for some reason.
Last edited by Palestrina; 06-06-2015 at 08:05 AM.
The carb debate is "trickier" than I thought.
