Food IS pleasure!
 

My weightloss journey has brought me some radical changes lately and I'm having a "shout it from the rooftops" moment.

***Disclaimer: I feel it's important that when we give advice on the forums that we do so only from our own perspective so I want to openly share that I do have a diagnosed eating disorder, and that I am treating it by using Intuitive Eating techniques under the supervision of a nutritional therapist.***

I've been a compulsive overeater/binger for at least 2 decades in my life and I always knew in the back of my mind that eating disorders are not cured by diets or "lifestyle changes." So now that I'm finally addressing some of my food issues I have come to realize that food has sucked for a long time. I have my old standby binge foods and although I've gotten so bored with them I still reach for them for safety. But they don't bring me pleasure, they really don't. I wasn't enjoying food anymore. I was feeling guilty over every little decision, calling myself all kinds of bad names and ridiculing myself over "bad foods."

Since I've released myself from all that I've really been enjoying food. And not just the foods I've missed while dieting (I love you carbs!), but a whole slew of other things too. Eating is an event every time! I eat whatever I want, whenever I want, just as long as I do it mindfully and eat only when hungry and stop when I'm full.

Anyway, I've been so sad around here lately, everyone is so hard on themselves, restricting the bejeezus out of their food choices and then feeling virtuous for eating below calories or avoiding an evil food. I want everyone to remember that food can be pleasurable, that we don't have to avoid it or to banish it from our lives. Enjoying food does not mean we are bad or weak willed or destined to be fat. We don't have to punish ourselves in order to lose weight, we've done nothing wrong, and if we gained some weight over the years it's nothing we can't fix.

Health first! We must prioritize our emotional health first, and then our physical health will follow suit.

The trick to sustaining weightloss for me has been to find and enjoy foods that are healthy for me. That has been my journey. One in which I started by cutting all foods, including the ones I really used to like, and then slowly introducing new ones that I had never tried before, find delicious and can eat a lot of without piling on the pounds.

I haven't been able to reach a midpoint or balance yet. I either diet or binge... but as far as I can recall, I have been doing this for over 20 years. Every time I start believing that food is pleasure... I slip into the "just one" lie.... which leads to just one day, then just one week, then all the freaking time.

I just have NO control whatsoever. Food cannot be pleasure for me. I have to get my pleasure elsewhere.

It doesn't have to be pleasure, but it doesn't have to be torture either. There are many things that bring us pleasure and food is just one of them.

The problem with not seeing food as potential pleasure is that all the people in our lives will do anyway. I don't want to be the girl who brings her own lunch to a picnic. I don't want to eat before I go to a party. I don't want to watch other people enjoy food while I can't. I don't want to feel like I'm powerless in front of food, like I can't meet my friends out for drinks and dinner. I'm a social creature and social functions serve food. I have to learn to live in peace with that.

For me, this has always been switched, prioritize physical health, and then emotional health follows suit :) But I definitely see what you're saying!

I'm one of those people who restricts myself and becomes really happy when I get in a day below my cals and zero junk food (see I'm already profiling my food choices lol) But I also think that it's because that's the only way I've lost weight. I wish I could stay within my limits and have a little bit of everything, but for me, it's a little too much freedom and I don't trust myself yet. I know sometime down the line (if I ever reach maintenance) it's something I will have to learn how to do.

Wannabe- I know you follow IE, when you crave something, do you eat it and then that's it, the craving is gone? Just to give you an example of how my mind works, if I'm craving cake, I will eat one cake (sara lee snacks for example), but having introduced that taste makes me crave more sugar, it makes me irritable too if I can't have it. Does that ever happen to you? This is part of the reason why I have to have restrictions with myself.

This. I had a good friend who finally had the honesty to bring to my attention how illogical my relationship with food was. Our group of friends was talking about food and he mentioned how I should add bacon to something. "I don't eat bacon." was my response. He sort of looked at me incredulously. He said, "Locke, you don't eat bacon, you don't eat sandwiches, you don't eat french fries, you don't eat ice cream... what the **** is wrong with you? Those are delicious foods that you should enjoy the h*** out of. Don't eat them for every meal, just eat them in moderation and don't feel guilty."

His insistence that I enjoy what I am eating and don't look at them as "trigger" foods is what pushed me into IE. Pleasure is my goal at eat meal and this has been the key to bringing sanity towards food back into my life. I'm willing to admit now that I'm a foodie- I LOVE food. I eat junk food. I eat healthy food. I just eat food and I eat it so that I enjoy it- slowly and savoring each bite.

The idea that certain foods have the power to make you fat is everywhere in our society. Every time I pull up a news website I see at least one article that says something like "THE TEN FOODS YOU SHOULD NEVER EAT AGAIN." or "STOP EATING THIS IF YOU WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT." In my experience foods don't have the power to make you fat. You can overeat on fat free cottage cheese and celery. I know I have.

I know this is addressed to Wannabe but I thought I'd respond, too. When I eat something like candy I find that I will crave it more regularly but that the cravings don't have the same power over me like they used to. Right now I am craving chocolate covered marshmallow candy. I haven't eaten anything like that in years- maybe it's Easter that's evoking the feeling, it doesn't really matter. Anyway I just ate lunch about an hour ago and I still feel like I don't need any food- my hunger has been satisfied. So I acknowledge that the craving is present and I tell myself that when I'm hungry if I'd still like to have some of that candy then I can have some (or something similar, I've got a few different kinds of chocolate at home). When I get hungry again I'll imagine myself eating the chocolate candy- how do I feel? Most of the time even if I'm craving chocolate I will feel like I'd rather eat something else, like some chicken and salad. Sometimes my body really does want the candy so I eat it. It's amazing how little power cravings have when you know you can satisfy them at the next time when you are truly hungry. It doesn't make me go crazy from deprivation because I know I can have just enough to satisfy my craving without making me feel ill.

Totally legit question! Again I must reitirate what my personal goals are:

1. STOP BINGING
2. Alleviate guilt over my food choices
3. Lose weight

In that order. Stopping the binges is crucial because life sucks trying to hide my binge eating. Guilt makes my life suck even more. Deep down inside I know that if I can accomplish Steps 1 and 2 that step 3 will kind of resolve itself.

So cravings, yea I get cravings. Always have, always will. For a long time I approached cravings like evil doers floating around my brain that I had to STOP, keep away! Distract! or I'd try to fool them with something else "no no you can't have chocolate, here have this calorie-free fat-free stupid grape instead" lol we've all been there right?

If I want that brownie, I eat it. I sit down, eat it slowly, make yummy noises to myself, tell people this is the best brownie I've ever had and then I go on about my day. I've done this many times and you know what? Once I've managed to eat it without guilt then it's gone, the craving is satisfied. Honestly I can't promise anyone that I will lose weight this way and I'm not claiming to! All I'm saying is that I'm enjoying eating right now without fear of being punished by myself.

I wish I could be more helpful but I'm not far enough into my journey to prove weight loss yet. I can tell you though that eating food without guilt and without reprocussions has been life changing to me. Since I've started eating this way my binges have reduced by 90%, there are bags of cheetos in my pantry that I haven't touched in days, I can eat with my family and not feel ashamed of the food I ate, and I am starting to really enjoy the feeling of HUNGER in my body because I know I can solve it quickly and easily and with much less food than I once thought I could eat.

I find, for me, that once I get the simple sugars out of my system, I enjoy food and eating very much so and don't feel like I'm missing anything. I take a great deal of pleasure out of making very tasty foods. But, I've been at this a long time and have had successes and relapses and every. single. relapse has to do with eating too much simple sugar foods. Which yes, give me a LOT of pleasure too - for awhile. And then they make me feel lethargic.

When I ditch those simple carbs, I feel good and sprightly and energetic. So, I do have to eliminate things from my diet. I've tried over and over to try to have some in moderation. It simply doesn't work for me. There is no moderately eating oreos for me. it's the whole box if I buy them.

I'm with you girlfriend, if I've decided one thing it's that I am am going to enjoy eating and any weight I gain I will have enjoyed my way to gaining. No more secret eating or binging without satisfaction.

I'm in a wonderful place at the moment, eating rationally, exercising comfortably.

One day at a time.

For me to succeed, especially in the face of lots of potential regains every time I loosen my habits or have another baby, I have made peace with doing this for life and doing it in a way most people aren't willing to do. I agree food can be delicious and enjoyable, but it isn't a hug or a friend. It isn't a security blanket. And is no barometer of my personal value or moral good.

I enjoy the things I eat, they're delicious and satisfying to my body and soul. But I can't eat everything I enjoy and remain slender. I've lost too much weigh and am down too far to stay here without daily work. Some foods just have to remain birthday treats or planned-for, scheduled indulgences. Some things I will probably never eat again, because they aren't worth the price they exact on my body and mind. But daily food isn't misery or drudgery and I'm not ever going to be able to make food just about fuel - I ENJOY EATING! So for me, it's been finding that balance of what nourishes my body best and then working that in a way that satisfies my taste buds, remains flexible for my lifestyle, and doesn't cause me grief by beginning a cycle of cravings.

So yeah. I eat whole foods 90% of the time (processed means flavored sunflower seeds, the occasional pork rind, and some sausage), very low carb, and will do this come rain or shine for the rest of my life. It's awesome, because I run well and am free of most of my food demons so long as I stick with my plan and restrict off plan treats to intentional days, infrequently, and keep an ironclad promise to myself to get back on plan the very next day with no ifs, ands, or buts.

I don't have an eating disorder, my issues are hormonal and physiological first, with some exacerbating factors like stress that can worsen things. We all have our own battles to fight but I'm so happy I've found the solution to mine. And I learned a hard lesson just last week that trying to take what other people think should work for me, even when my own experience has been to the contrary, and hope it magically works for me this time? Nope, no magic, just epic fail. And now that I'm back to my safe, happy food spot, it's amazing how much better I feel both physically and spiritually. Their suggestions were good for many and meant to be freeing, but I can't ever eat like that and maintain my weight and sanity.

We all have to find what works for us. There's some basic suggestions that might apply across the board (ie: if you find it unsustainable then don't start it at all, begin as you mean to go on!) but there is truly a spectrum of ideal human nutrition, depending on the individual body, and when you add our brains, lifestyles, and habits to the mix it becomes plain that while we're in this together as fat chicks, we're all unique in our solutions :)

Amen, and again it's important to understand what one needs to get out of life. Fortunately I'm not plagued with alarming health issues such as diabetes, blood pressure, or have genetic health issues on the horizon. YET! My weight has provided me with plenty of chronic pain and mobility issues and so it's not possible to do extreme exercise anymore, ever probably. But like I said before, my whole purpose is to have a pleasant relationship with food and I'm ok being overweight as long as I don't binge, or harass myself with negative thoughts about any kind of food.

I've spent too long thinking about "trigger foods." Well, everything is a trigger food lol. I can't worry about what one food will lead me to do, or how one taste of something will cause havoc or whatnot. I see too many people fall into that cycle of restricing-losing-failing-weightgain to follow suit.

I drink at least 8 cups of water a day. Don't eat any junk food, candy or fast food, and don't drink any soda. Try to eat mostly fresh fruit and vegetables, fish and lean chicken (without skin).

I don't have to give up chicken skin. That's the best part.

Just referring back to what Locke said about "my body wants candy". It may be but i don't think it means your body needs candy. I've come to the conclusion that that feeling of "my body wants candy" when i'm craving it, means that my seratonin levels are low or that there is some other hormonal disturbance e.g. leptin, reason for it.

I came to this conclusion firstly by observation of my own experience, though at that point i wasn't saying "my seratonin levels are low", I was aware that it was connected to something to do with my mood or if it was at the end of a diet and i'd lost a lot of weight, that this may be a trigger.

It was only on reading the articles on nutrition wonderland that i began to see how it could indeed been seratonin and my intuition about my mood was correct. and also the other thing about my weight and leptin.

Either way, a craving is some sort of body out of whack message but it does not mean the body needs sugar. So if you give in, there's no reason to think you are doing your body a service. But i'm not saying you must not give in. There is nothing wrong with a little sugar. But for me, it tends to lead to a binge so its best to avoid it if i can.

The leptin craving is the hardest one to resist i have found. Of course i didn't know it was leptin at the time but now that i've read about leptin on nutrition wonderland, i can see that it was leptin and i understand why the craving persisted for so long. I mean days and days but coming and going. At that time, luckily i was fairly unable to go and buy some junk but i was making dumplings boiled in milk with sultanas in order to satisfy that craving. At least it wasn't' causing me to put on a lot of weight right away. I could go back back to controlling my food and eating well but eventually on returning home and stopping my journey which was cycle trip, i certainly did gradually start eating more and more.

None of this is about wannabe's post. It is just addressed to what locke said. I was going to reply to OP but i've taken up my energy on this now and need to go do something else.

Thanks for the effort. I rarely ever just eat candy- I find that I don't feel well afterwards. If I have a sweet tooth I distinguish between a craving and something more important by imagining myself eating it- if I imagine feeling good after it then I will have a small serving, typically with a meal. I find that sometimes I am lacking complete satisfaction with an evening meal if I don't have a little bit (sometimes less than one serving) of something sweet. I think this resonates with many food traditions (dessert appears to be a cross-cultural practice) so I allow myself that small indulgence. I feel like I have given myself a bad name by saying that I like junk food all the time. I have a very strict interpretation of "healthy food" (a lingering part of my ED). Just for example here's what I ate today:

B: Bagel w/ spinach cream cheese
S: Small (<1oz by eye) amount of peanuts
L: Sourdough bread, Irish porter cheese, tomatoes, pickles, and an egg.
D: Warm kale salad with bacon, almonds, dates, and parmesan cheese.

Except for the bagel and bread (each of these were palm-sized) many people would consider this a healthy-ish plan (based on your own beliefs).

I eat very small quantities of high quality foods that I enjoy. This doesn't lead me to bingeing on sweets afterwards in my program so I keep it. If I were to find, all things considered, that allowing myself two small squares of chocolate with an evening meal made me an out of control sugar fiend then I wouldn't continue, but it hasn't. I feel like people focus on this one part of IE- the "unlimited junk" factor but they think that means just coming out of a diet mentality and eating all you want. If you come out of a period of food restriction and then give yourself permission to eat anything you're going to eat a lot of your favorite "forbidden" foods at the start. I know I did. This was, however, an essential step to showing myself that I was allowed to have things that I wanted. This is a process-oriented, not goal-orientated technique. I am not the same as I was when I started IE. My meals and eating habits are much more sensible now, and I've only been eating this way for a little over three weeks.

I LOVE your post! I just wanna give you a big hug honestly :hug: It so spoke to me.

I am a binge eater, tied very much to my emotions. I get depressed & I just wanna curl up & stuff my face.

I have talked it out with my sister in the past & food was tied to so many happy moments in my life that I think it really has nothing to do with the food itself but the feelings of comfort it sparks. In one of my very worst windows of depression I had a pattern of sitting on the couch, watching my favorite movie & eating pizza. It was like a every other day almost thing! And I mean a whole frozen pizza.

The food wasn't making me feel good. Most of the time I didn't even love the food really. Like in the moment it seemed to be so good but afterwards thinking of it, it wouldn't be something I would go crazy for or count it as my favorite food even. It wasn't great.

But the feelings of comfort, the memories, etc.. made me feel good emotionally. Like I was feeding my emotions and not my body.

But then afterwards I would hate myself for eating it. Put myself down. & then even in the past when i was trying to be healthy it was so

But the best times I have actually had with food was times I was cooking. Making recipes, paying attention to the ingredients and actually eating real food. I never want to hate food. I think part of this journey is trying to come to a healthy relationship with food.

I see others just straight cut things out like, I can never eat this whole list of items. And I personally could never do that. I wanna have a dinner with family, go out to a restaurant, try a new recipe and yes even eat my favorite foods. I just need to learn moderation. Food will always be there and if I can't learn self control then one day I will snap and binge again. I also think denying myself might just make me want it more, knowing I could never have it again would tempt me to just break the rules and eat it.

I hate that I have so much guilt over food. Like my sister is trying to lose weight along with me & just today we were talking & she told me she ate a doughnut as if it were the worst thing possible. I don't want that. I don't want to be like omg I ate a cookie I should throw myself off a cliff.

It is so easy to just hate on yourself, put yourself down. Make a mistake? You are the worst person ever in the history of the world.

I remember reading once how we would NEVER tell a friend or family member that they are ugly, stupid, fat. If my best friend was trying to lose weight and ate a big slice of cake I would never tell her omg you fat cow, you are a horrible person & don't deserve to be happy!! But I had no problem telling myself that.


Anyways though my point is I so think that this is so much of an emotional journey as it is a physical one. I have to learn why I do things, why I wanna stuff my face when I am not even hungry. learn to LOVE MYSELF. Learn to break the negative cycle. Learn that I will make mistakes & that is ok. learn that food is NOT my enemy.

Locke i'm not going to go into any length in reply. I've made my point. Its not like i haven't tried to eat sweets in moderation. Some of us just seem unable to do it. Of course who knows in a few years i may feel differently. But for now, this no sweets is working well for me and i have no problem with it at all. When someone offers it to me and i say no, i don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. Its just like saying no to a cigarette. On the other hand if someone offered me lavender ice-cream with a toffee thing decorating it and a stick of something else in it that was amazing, i would eat it. Rest assured if there is something special on offer, i'm going to eat it. But mostly the food around on offer is not special and not worth the price i would pay. Not even most chocolate is that good.

I'm more interested in addressing what moon kissed is saying now.

Moonkissed. I don't know how old you are. You sound like you might be younger and not done much experimenting with diets and stuff. And it sounds like you may not have done any therapy but i can't tell for sure. You may be doing it now. I'm 50.

Anyway i think you would benefit from a counsellor/therapist. Even if some people think they don't get any benefit from it, they do. They just don't realise it, otherwise why would they go see someone for 10 years if it doesn't help.

So I am a binge eater too. I used to eat for comfort after i quit smoking but as i got better at solving life problems, food wasn't my main go to, counselling was although i still got cravings when my mood sank. and food just became a bad habit. Especially sweet food.

I want to address you because, i think you would benefit from knowing more about how hormones and mood interact. How low mood makes you want to eat. Its a physiological thing. I find that understanding this makes me work all the harder at keeping my mood up. I've only learnt about that this year. See my last post for the info.

I have more skills at managing my mood now and can address things fairly quickly so that i can resist the temptation to binge when my mood sinks. When it happens, i find a counsellor quickly. I often use the phone helplines for that. And then a real life person because that is better still. But while i'm on a diet, i'm also trying to eat non sweet things when my mood sinks. I'll just eat anything else but try to make it low cal. Last time it was wine that worked for me because it was night and i needed to go to sleep anyway. So just one glass of wine. But not more because that makes your mood worse.

I gave up major guilt a long time ago. I am still a little bit ashamed when i eat tons of food but i don't hate myself over it. And so it doesn't make my mood worse. If you can get rid of the guilt, its a major advance. So i don't get the snowball effect that can come from overeating. So i'd say learning to put guilt aside is the first thing to try to address and doing it with a counsellor is going to get you there really fast. I think you can trust me on that.

Secondly, one of the reasons why i find leaving out sweets to be useful is because when i don't eat sweets and my mood is fine, i like eating healthy food. I enjoy my food. And i will eat anything freely except sweets because basically i don't have a problem with any other foods. But while i am on a diet, of course you have to restrict the amount of high calorie foods because if you don't', you will leave yourself hungry.

And if you going against what you want, you may want it even more but in quitting, i am so committed to it, i don't feel any tug at all. I don't want it even more. Its a free choice i make each time.

the point about high calorie or junk foods is that the satisfaction does not last very long. But lets just talk about a few nuts. Say you eat a cupful of almonds. That's a lot of almonds and a lot of calories but they are generally good healthy food. There are 826 calories in a cupful of almonds according to the site i just looked at.

for far less than 826 calories, i can eat a plateful of food and i will be much more satisfied. That's why its advisable when on a weightless kick to restrict certain foods and to choose your foods wisely. So i wouldn't recommend pizza more than once a week. And if you eat pizza once a week, i wouldn't recommend kfc another night. Doing so will make it all just too hard. Low calorie nutrition rich food is the way to lose weight most easily. It helps your mood (read that link again) and will satisfy you the most.

There are a lot more pleasures in life than food. Since losing weight movement is so much more pleasurable. No sleep apnea. Back pain gone. I can hold my own with 20 somethings on a basketball court again. Tennis is a pure joy. Waking up with no pains again.

The key for me was and is a process of finding foods that I love and that are also healthy for me. If that means eliminating foods I feel from my experiences and research are unhealthy, best decision I ever made. I still get the pleasure of food while at the same time getting healthier all the time.

This is just what worked for me. But yes absolutely, for me, I needed to eliminate foods. Even in social settings. Still more than enough wonderful foods to choose from.

I've been thinking lately how a Way of Eating is like being a parent. You just can't do everything you used to do and like as a parent. Can't go out to the wee hours on weekends, can't go to a movie anytime you want. You have to restrict things. But you also experience so many other pleasures, just like you do when successful at getting healthy.

And in most of our lives we experience restrictions in spending. We know we can't get everything we'd like. And if we really want something big we have to give up other stuff along the way. So most of us in other aspects of life experience restricting things in order to reach goals.

But everyone needs to find what works for them. In fact I'd say what works best IS best. If moderation is they key and it works, embrace it and go for it.

Just relating what worked for me. And eventually with what I did it ended up not being about restrictions at all per se. After awhile, for me, I simply didn't want my former foods anymore. But never would have gotten there without intentionally restricting them at first.

And I was ready to embrace this approach. 47 when I started. So I understand it isn't right for everyone or for a particular time. Just throwing out that restrictions can work. Does not mean it is the only way or the way anyone else should choose.

I find that if I eat something regularly, I start to crave it when I don't get it. Growing up, I hated salads. I started eating them with DH and after a while I was shocked when I craved one after some salad-free days. Similarly, some foods that I haven't eaten in a long while have fallen off the "I want" list. Once in a while, I do eat something that I remember as being delish, but I'm usually (just usually, not always) very disappointed in it.

On a normal day, my WOE incorporates food guidance (tailored by me for me and constantly evolving) which restricts when I can eat (by choice, since I know this helps me manage my hunger) and limits/restricts my usual food selections (by choice, since I know how certain foods affect my hunger). But I love the food that I do choose to eat and I love the fact that I can eat as much as I want in my window and I don't miss the foods that I limit or exclude on a regular basis.

My current WOE doesn't make any food permanently forbidden. I ate out at the Outback a few days ago and had a very large complete meal, including bread, blooming onion, creamy onion soup, garlic mashed, meat&veg, and dessert. I also ate a piece of fruit just before I arrived at the restaurant, because the last thing I wanted to do was eat a big meal and still feel hungry (I don't eat earlier in the day and I have a large appetite).

I left the restaurant stuffed, and after I got home... I was hungry again within an hour. And I chose to eat more (my eating window was actually still open).

This is why I choose to limit my sugary and starchy carbs as part of my regular eating (I stick to very small servings of foods that I know I can handle). I know my limits and if I eat too much of them, it just makes me hungry again soon after and then I will feel deprived if I try to fight it. But I do still eat "normal" amounts once in a while because my current WOE seems to allow me to integrate exceptions into my lifestyle once in a while without overall weight gain.

All that said, to the OP, you know your own priorities and your first priority is to find a way that you can avoid binges and your second priority is to deal with emotions/guilt over food. Restrictions may affect you in more negative ways than they affect me so they may not be appropriate for you. Similarly, you might not have the same issues I have with starchy carbs. I hope you have found the best way you can deal with those issues and I truly wish you fantastic success.

Also, I don't think it's a big deal, since many people don't pay a lot of attention to the forum that posts are put in, but you might want to consider the "Chicks in Control" forum instead of (or in addition to) the "Weight Loss Support" forum.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. Restrictions have caused chaos in my life. I'm a complete failure when it comes to dieting! I just can't seem to get it right. And the binging after a diet is intolerable anymore, self destructive to the Nth degree. Obviously lots of IEers can handle restrictions, just look at normal eaters, they all eat intuitively and are able to fluidly restrict a food and allow it occassionally without many problems. But I suspect that their ease around food has more to do with not being dependant on eating for reasons other than hunger than it has to do with self-control. They maintain rational thought when it comes to food and I find myself acquiring more and more of rationality around food. I can't seem to stay on a diet for more than a few days or weeks before I go bonkers and fall into a long deep binge. The binges last longer than the diets do. I can't explain what that's done to me mentally.

I totally agree with food that's lying around on offer. When I was restricting myself I'd binge on anything! Now I'm a lot more picky and choose only foods that I have to have. If I want a cookie it's got to be a specific cookie, it can't just be whatever is within reach. If I'm craving that delicious cookie that my local bakery makes then I cannot offset that craving with a chipsahack cookie. I've tried before and the only thing I accomplish is eating a bunch of bad cookies and then since I've "blown it" anyway I just head over to the bakery and satisfy my craving for a real cookie. Now I just go to the bakery, get my cookie, enjoy every morsel of it without guilt and move on in my life.

I wish I would have had some of these realizations when I was younger. You're way ahead of the game kiddo.

YES! I love this post and your use of the word "balance" because that's what it feels like to be free of guilt about food choices. The consequences of restriction are harder to take for some of us. The truth is that you cannot cure an eating disorder with a diet and any kind of restriction causes me to freak out. Been doing that for decades and it's only gotten worse. This may seem like a radical approach but this is the very first time that I feel like I'm making real progress with my ED. My process is very slow, it may not result in drastic weight loss and my goals are to be free of my demons. My binge behavior causes me to lie about eating, eat secret meals in between meals, hoard food, and then torture the people I love with dieting advice. Imagine a person who goes through 3 different drive thrus in a row hoping to get the right combination of foods to sate her ----> that's me. Obviously a simple diet will not cure this.

I know what you mean about everyone tooting their WOE. It's all well-intended but each of us know what will and will not work in the long run. Like you, I just want to eat in a way that will maintain my sanity. I'm acting as if I'm already at goal. I'm in maintainance mode as far as I'm concerned. If I can be as sane tomorrow as I am today I'm happy.

:cp: If I could wish anything at all for you, it is for you to keep that mindset you have now! (and not to get too rocked when it takes short vacations now and then!)

We all have to find our balance, and be ok if our balance is different than other people's balance.

I wasted years trying to eat in a style that was suited to someone else and not to ME.

Food used to be a "black hole" pleasure for me, I sought it out more than any other available pleasure -- to quite an unhealthy extent.

Now food is just one of many other pleasures. I've mostly given up foods that make it harder to maintain a good life balance, and embraced foods that make it easier.

I'm all about easier.

Food is highly pleasurable but I would also say it's important not to encourage people who are trying to lose weight to eat trigger foods if they still find them triggering. "Just a little" for the sake of proving one's willpower to one's self is easier said than done, and people on long term caloric deficits are hungry.

I don't restrict any food groups because I can have "just a little" and move on - but a lot of foods that exist (mainly those containing high amounts of sugar) have absolutely no nutritional value and should be consumed with the same sort of caution and restraint that one would use recreational drugs or other vices.

I wouldn't dream of encouraging anyone to eat something they don't want to eat. I'm used to eating for reasons other than hunger. Thus, eating is behavioral for me and I'm approaching my eating with a behavioral solution and part of that is not to subscribe to the idea of trigger foods. Foods don't trigger me, habits and emotions do.

This is my opinion, and it's not meant to reflect on the OP or anyone else here.

I don't ascribe to the idea of food BEING pleasure. Food is fuel. That doesn't mean I have to hate the fuel I put in my body. I don't force myself to live on broccoli and kale and dry over cooked chicken breast. (I happen to like all of those foods, except I prefer my chicken to not be dry and overcooked ;) ) But I also know that candy, fried foods, junk, soda, fake sugars, processed foods come with consequences that have NOTHING to do with weight. They damage the body, even though you can't necessarily see it on the outside. Not right away at least. Those items cause harm inside the body. There are medical studies out there to prove it. (No, I don't play the internet game of "Oh yeah? Show me!" We're all adults, and can each do our own research. I have no skin in the game of you taking my word for it or caring about what I say. The info is there for those who seek it.)

So, for me, I choose not to view food as recreation/fun/pleasure. I've done a lot of hard work to try and learn to treat food as what it is, a necessary component to keeping me healthy and able to do and experience the things life has to offer me. I'm never going to, as an old lady, sit there and say "I remember this bag of oreo cookies I ate once in 2014, it was so good!" But I do suspect that as an old lady I will be able to say "I remember that trip I took to *someplace* and how much fun I had! I was able to do this, and that, and this!" Things I wouldn't have been able to do if I allowed myself to abuse my internal/physical self by allowing myself to eat things that I know just aren't good for me. Hey, I may feel great for a few minutes when I eat that cake. I'm not saying I wouldn't. But minutes aren't worth it, I'm aiming for the long view. I won't remember that cake in a month or a year. But my body is a long term investment. I'm the only one who can manage and protect that investment. So I do the best I can at that. It's a process, and I'm not perfect.

I am not sure how I should take that lmao! I am actually 31... I guess to be honest I am not very mature for my age. I surely do not feel 31. Kindof feeling awkward now lol

Oh i agree with you there for sure. I have an anxiety disorder. So it is very easy for me to fall into a negative frame of mind I guess. I often joke that it is like chicken little, the smallest thing can happen & I am like omg the sky is falling, the world is going to end. I panic. I am healing & getting better. Finding ways to cope and manage it. But it is always there. I am far better then I used to be.

I think I am partly lucky there because I am not big on sweets or junk food really even. I will take it or leave it honestly. I am not having huge sugar cravings and I can always pop a small piece of dark chocolate and be content. My issue is carbs. It made up my entire diet. I am a hugely picky eater, not big on meat but give me pasta and bread I will go nuts. That is all I would eat was huge carb filled food 90% of the time. It is like take everything you will eat & 90% of it is the thing you wanna cut out/lower & it can be a whole mess.

I have struggled alot with finding out what I should eat. I am diabetic/pcos so on top of it carbs should be managed. I had alot of guilt about not going on a super low carb diet. There is currently a huge love/hate relationship with food for me. I am trying to end that though. Like I know where I wanna be, even if I am not there yet.

My other issue is that it was hard for me to eat enough calories. I would be afraid that eating 1500 calories was far too much. I couldn't find that balance. I was always eating not enough or I would binge & go over. Because on a normal day I wouldn't eat all day long & then binge at night far too often. And idk for me when I would binge it seemed out of mind I guess so I wasn't aware in the moment how much I was eating. So to sit down to a real meal, it seemed like so much food.


And when I meant I wanted to be able to eat anything and not restrict myself I don't mean just eat crap all the time at all. IDK if I came across that way? I just meant that if one day I want to go out for pizza that I shouldn't hate myself for it. If I grab a cookie it won't be the end of my world. I don't way to hate myself for those choices, second guess myself, or feel guilty about it like I am doing something wrong.

I want a healthy diet. I want 99% of my diet to be whole natural, real food, veggies and fruits & healthy stuff. I wanna cook meals instead of just grabbing some processed crap all the time.

I am not sure why people jump to the conclusion that if you're not on a popular diet it means that you're eating junk food all the time. I don't think it's dangerous to suggest that people enjoy the food they are eating. It's far more dangerous to try to suggest that someone cure an eating disorder by cutting out whole food groups and I'm a good example of that. Diets have made my ED worse and worse and if I don't take control of that now I will live the rest of my life this way.

I took the wrong advice for a long time. A long long time. Long enough. I've trusted everyone but myself and packed on the pounds in the name of virtue. I don't expect anyone to understand that unless they have a diagnosed eating disorder. And binging is not enjoyable at all. Now that I'm not binging I have a new appreciation for food, it's enjoyable to me and I don't need permission to find enjoyment in it. Some of the happiest times of my life were accompanied by food and I feel no shame about that.

Are there other pleasures in life to be enjoyed? Yes. Am I enjoying them? Yes. I finally have time to now that my face is not buried in a binge. Do carbs bring me pleasure? NO they don't!! But the freedom to eat them if I want them is a privilege and pleasure I've denied myself long enough.

The "idea" of trigger foods that you have unsubscribed from is a real issue for many. Simple carbs and sugars screw with blood sugar and insulin levels and can generate dopamine rushes and cravings. I do not identify as a sugar or carb addict, but after a giant pasta dish or too much dessert I often feel like I might be turning into one, and get horrible gnawing sensations that literally never happen when I tone down the carbs. It is entirely possible to "sit with it" and still lose/maintain, but if satiety and moderation is the goal, the path will be trickier with lots of sugar and carbs.

What you're doing can be done within the intuitive eating scheme. I am careful to eat refined carbohydrates in small portions because I feel sick after eating them if I don't. Many times if I have something sweet it is with a meal that contains protein and fat. I don't enjoy sodas, big plates of pasta, donuts, etc. because I feel my heart beating faster from the carb load after I eat them. Do I still have a craving for a donut? Sure, every once in a while but I remember that they make me feel like sh*t after I eat them. I may opt for a donut hole instead.

IE is a psychological game. If I tell myself that I can't have donuts, that they are poison, junk, etc. I find myself compulsively thinking about them. To be obsessed with what you can't have seems to be a very common human reaction to restriction. Here's an example from my life: when I went grain free I saw a newspaper article in my paper reviewing a restaurant famous for their chicken and waffles. I felt myself get angry and jealous at the people pictured in the restaurant eating these poisonous, fattening foods. Don't they realize how they are giving themselves diabetes and heart disease??? I craved eating chicken and waffles so badly that I went and binged on frozen toaster waffles and frozen chicken nuggets- foul junk that I didn't even taste.

Now that I've given myself permission to eat whatever I want I don't feel any sort of compulsion to eat foods. Chicken and waffles? Of course they're delicious but I just haven't felt like eating them. I can be happy for the people I see walking down the street eating ice cream- ice cream is delicious! How much fun is it to walk down the street on a sunny day eating an ice cream cone? Of course the pleasure comes from discipline and moderation. The biggest mistake I have made in my life is equating the pleasure of secretly stuffing myself with a carton of ice cream alone in my house at night with the pleasure of walking down a sunny street with a friend and eating an ice cream cone.

I spend a lot more time thinking about sweets when i'm eating them without restriction than when i'm not eating them at all. I also spend a lot more time craving them.

As is often said around here, we are all different.

Trigger foods are real for me, and I have little doubt they are real for a fair number of other people as well.

I, personally, don't think it is dangerous to recommend that people cut out their trigger foods, at least for a while, as one potential option that is at least worth a try. As it turns out, white bread wasn't adding all that much of value to my life. It was adding alot of struggle and mental mind games, though.

To each their own.

I totally agree with you. When I hear people say things like "juice has no place in a healthy diet" or "cereal is evil," I often think all that fierce energy is misplaced. It's in our nature to enjoy and revel in food. Yesterday I was at a catered party, and one of the people I talked to said, "Eating good food has healing powers, just like medicine."

Nothing wrong with searching for the intersection between tasty and healthy. My own definition of healthy is comparatively broad. I sure don't want to live on a planet in which fresh baguette, fragrant cheese and a bottle of fine red wine spread out over a picnic blanket isn't considered healthy.

F.

This is my story and very personal but I wanted to share. Last year, 2013, my beloved uncle came to live with us. He was my dad and I am his closest living relative. We had been trying since he retired to get him to live with us. He refused. He had developed pretty bad dementia and we just finally got the move with all his doctors telling him he had to move. It was devastating. I remember one particular day we were at the Waco Zoo for hours. Then we went out to eat. Less than 30 minutes after leaving the zoo he didn't remember he had even been there. At that moment I just wanted to crawl up into a little ball and die.

It was so heart breaking. My wife and I also adopted our beloved daughter after years of trying to have a family. She was 2 at that point, 3 now. I realized she would be just 15 when I hit 60. My uncle is only 22 years older than me. Nothing could be harder than getting dementia. NOTHING. Certainly not food. I was determined.

So I had all the motivation in the world, I was on a motivation high. So I told myself I don't care how much it is going to stink...I am NEVER eating the way I used to. I was also so tired of being hungry all the time and aches and pains and being lethargic and un-athletic. I choose to eliminate foods. I had my uncle's example, and I felt his diet gave him dementia, and however hard it was going to be I knew it was NOTHING compared to the pain I would inflict on my family and myself if I got dementia.

So I was ready to eliminate food that was keeping me hungry and overweight and unhealthy as I saw it.

For me it worked. Again I think motivation and timing was everything in my success. I also want to say that not only do I not crave the food anymore it actually makes me ill now, much of it. I used to go to a great restaurant in the Austin area, Pluckers. I loved their wings. I went back after not going for a few months, a couple of months ago. I got a massive headache when finishing the wings. It was scary and intense and made me very frightened. I hadn't experienced that before. I got home and wondered what could it have been. I've changed our oils at home completely, I called and they cook in soy oil. I looked up soy oil reactions and the most common one is headaches.

Our bodies are amazing. Sometimes too amazing for our own good. When I went often to Pluckers the soy oil effect was not so much. I couldn't even feel it, my body was dealing with it. But after eating 'cleaner' I could feel the impact. Just last week similar thing happened. Went to a restaurant haven't been for a few months. Before I was fine in it. I tried to order clean but I don't know their oils used or how much sugar or HFCS I might have been getting. I left feeling woozy and dizzy. My body just isn't used to what I used to eat anymore. So not only don't I miss it now, it often makes me sick.

This is my story. I hope everyone including Wannabe has as much success as they want with whatever method/approach works for them. I fully acknowledge had I not had my sky high motivation at that time, I might not have made it pass the transition period. I TOTALLY get not getting over the transition period, it happened to me more than once. But once I did it this time, got over the hump this time, it got easier and easier because my appetite went down so much.

But if this helps one person it is worth it. Perhaps that person will try moderation and succeed, perhaps they won't. Perhaps in ten years they might remember this and think you know I am ready to just go for it now with the eliminating foods approach. I am willing to get over the transition period and just eliminate these things for good or at least try it. And perhaps it will help them then to know it can work for some people.

My last thoughts are these. Everyone is different and I wish everyone the best in whatever they choose. But for me things are PROFOUNDLY different having eliminated foods. I believe for me cereals are for sure 'evil'. I don't spend wasted time worrying about that I have just eliminated grains. And my back pain went away, I haven't gotten sick since then, my allergies went away, 87 pounds and counting went away, my vitality is through the roof. So yes profound changes. Are all these changes from grain elimination? No. But the back pain is for sure, that went right away with stopping my last grain, corn, and it comes back if I have grains by mistake.

When I eat now and I don't have many carbs aside from veggies, my body uses the fat I give it instead of storing it. I have become 'fat adapted'.

OK very last thought. I knew I was unhealthy and the unhealthiest wasn't enough for me to change. We adopted our daughter 2 years ago and that wasn't enough to change. Then my uncle got dementia which as I stated above was devastating.

All three things together were an unstoppable motivating force for me to make permanent changes. Does anyone else have to eliminate foods to succeed? No. I am sure there are many successful approaches. I have chosen to and it has worked beyond belief.

Insulin resistance runs in my family. My grandmother lost a leg and died from complications eventually. My uncle got diabetes and dementia as I mentioned.

Did I 'choose' to consider a fresh baguette to be unhealthy? Did I choose to consider fruit juice or cereals to be unhealthy? Did anyone on the planet 'choose' these all to be considered unhealthy? No. People just noticed the impact foods like these were having on themselves and on loved ones and some reacted accordingly. Those who felt they were negatively impacting them, they may not impact you negatively.

I will say this there are profound differences in what people consider unhealthy or not. John McDougall or Colin Campbell versus say Tim Noakes and Sam Feltham have very different views on what is healthy. My low carb high fat approach for instance, many people consider unhealthy.

But I don't consider fruit juice and bread to be unhealthy to get under anyone's skin or impact anyone negatively in anyway. I consider them to unhealthy because to the best of my personal experiences and all the research I've read I know them to be for me, and I believe them to be for many people. The cheese and wine is great though.

My own balance is a little different. I agree that I won't remember the bag of Oreo cookies I ate 30 years ago, but some of my fondest memories do involve food (often in the context of travel): The buffalo steak tartare I had in Banff, the Sushi Sei restaurant in Tokyo, Bong Su (upscale Vietnamese) in San Francisco, Pei Modern in Melbourne... the baguette, cheese and wine feast we have every year at the cottage, Ed's Real Scoop gelato after rollerblading along the boardwalk... and on and on...

Nope, not giving all that up.

F.

Because the act of sitting and eating that pleasurably, alone or with company and not feeling bad about it is a healthy act of eating. If I on the other hand secretly buy a loaf of bread and eat it on my couch while watching tv and finishing it all so that my husband does not see the evidence then that is not exactly healthy.

Coincidentally before I even read this I bought French bread, Camembert and fig jam, a food combination that I either restrict or binge on. The plan is to enjoy some with a glass of wine for dinner without guilt.

Everyone's definitions of what is healthy might be different. I am completely focused on conducting a healthy act of eating no matter what I choose to eat. My ED is very specific, eat something 'restricted' in secret, in between meals alone, then eat the regular meals too so nobody suspects anything, then get rid of the evidence. And how do I buy that food? With the personal account that I've set up in secret so that nobody finds out. Dude, that's an eating disorder ok? Going grain free is not going to fix that lol.

So my healthy act of eating right now involves eating without secrets, I don't stash anything anymore or eat secretely. I've spent a lot of energy on trying to hide my eating and sometimes that means eating large amounts of food very fast and I can't even taste them honestly. Now I eat as much as I want, I make sure I'm properly hungry for it and that I eat slowly and mindfully so that I notice when I get full, I even take breaks while I eat so that I don't miss those fullness cues. Yes at first this was damn near impossible to do - my hunger/fullness system was completely broken and I'm fixing it. It is easier now, I'm still working on it but it's a skill that I actually have so I'm going to use it. So now if I sit in public and eat a sandwich without judging myself or feeling like I'm being judged, and I eat it slowly so that I pay attention to how it feels/tastes then I consider that a healthy act of eating. This is huge for me y'all! And my binges are nearly gone, I've NEVER managed to not binge ever! I understand that some foods are more nutritious than others and I'm not overlooking that at all, I'm not eating chips and candy all day every day. Far from the truth. But I've spent a long time obsessing about food, and not really enjoying it. Now that I'm not obsessing about it I'm finally enjoying it.

... Oh and all that money I'm saving now from the binging I used to do? ----> goes directly to paying for my out-of-network nutritional therapist. So I'm walking the walk baby. Thank you to those who have been supportive!