Really angry
 

I just had a discussion with someone who "is tired of hearing about eating disorders" and thinks that fat people want to be fat and that if they didn't want to be fat they would do something about it. It has gotten me so angry! I know people that are naturally thin think this way but I'm sure they don't say it out loud most of the time. According to her, eating disorders (specifically BED) is a made up thing that people use as an excuse to overeat. She claims that it is really hard for her to maintain her 115lb weight and that she has to give up on a lot of treats, but that fat people don't want to be bothered with the hard work she does to maintain her weight. She also thinks that calorie counts showing up on menus is really stupid because she "doesn't need someone to tell her that a 16oz steak is enough food to feed 4 people!"

I'm seething right now :tantrum::tantrum::tantrum:

It just goes to show: people who don't have weight problems simply don't understand, and they never will. You'll never make people like her be compassionate towards your situation. You really just have to ignore those people.

WOW. Ignorance is bliss, I guess!

I struggled so bad from an eating disorder, and I stayed really thin. I was in the same mindset as her- I saw people eating, and it put me in this mindset that I was somehow superior, and people who were fat had no excuse. Eat little to no calories, exercise for 3 hours a day, and they would be golden. But then my recovery came... I started eating more, exercising less, and somehow found myself at 230. I now see how difficult it truly is, and I feel sorry for people who think that way.

On a side note, I kind of agree with the menu thing. Before I get flamed for it:

Going to a restaurant while dieting isn't hard. Diets and weight loss instill a certain sense of knowledge. Yeah, diets know a 16 oz steak can feed a village, so we don't get it. Either by intuition or set diet regulations we know to get the small 6 or 8 oz steak with a side of steamed broccoli and a small baked potato with onions, bacon bits, and no cheese. I don't think that seeing the 800 calorie and 25 g fat count next to the chicken alfredo will make much of a difference. If you're on a diet and REALLY want the alfredo, you know it's unhealthy and a cheat meal, so it won't make a bit of a difference. Restaurants are evil and unhealthy, so if it's really a big deal, avoid them!

That's why I don't normally don't sweat too much when I go out to eat, because I know what my body needs for nourishment and how I am going to get that... unless it's an epic eff up,I don't worry.

Back to the friend... yeah I'm sure that 115 is REALLY hard to maintain. If I was talking to said person I probably would have slapped her even though I'm farrrrr from a violent or outspoken person.

Some people are really lacking in empathy, sheesh.

I consider myself an empathetic person, but, it's true, there have been some things I don't fully understand unless I or someone close to me experienced them. Some examples are: before I had children, and when I saw a parent really struggling to try and manage a difficult child, I would wonder why the heck couldn't they control their child! Now that I am a mother, let's just say, man, I really know what that's like... now, I'm like, how can I help! Another example is sympathy for chronic pain sufferers, and everything that goes with that - I watched my sister deal with 10 years of intractable pain and multiple back surgeries. I also have a lot of sympathy for smokers trying to quit, having watched both my parents smoke for decades, then try to quit, and then finally successfully quit.

And then, obviously, I straight up know what it's like to be obese :( The complexities of one's relationship with food in this and instances of eating disorders are vast. I think your friend said outloud what a lot of people actually think. It REALLY pains me to know that obese people are thought of as gluttonous lumps : / I have read a few studies on prejudices toward obese persons and, frankly, it's beyond upsetting. The worst for me was reading what nurses and also teachers thought of the obese. I found it demoralizing to read. These opinions are pervasive, and I wouldn't waste time or energy on the disturbing comments your friend made.

It really sucks that people are not more empathetic....however that being said, there are times I agree.

This is why I agree and this is maybe where your friend is coming from.

It seems to me, that people in general...not just us fatties LOL. but in general people like to look for an "excuse" as to why something is not their fault. You know, the Twinkie Defense. That is where it seems to have started.

So now, we have people that make a living putting blame on other people. It is McDonald's fault that we burn ourselves on coffee because we cannot possibly know on our own that it is hot. McDonald's makes us fat, not the fact that we eat it twice a day and sit around for 18 hours at work, in the car or in front of the TV, soda is at fault for our obesity, not the fact that we only drink soda. It is the fault of the food companies because they do not label things clear enough that the jumbo size Kit Kat may not be a good idea and contains fat. It is the hair dryer companies fault that someone electrocuted themselves while using it in the shower. It is the video game and entertainment industries fault that our kids have ADHD and are prone to violence.

Somehow, all of these things are just kind of "duh". Yet, we have an entire industry suing, bringing laws into effect, and basically taking any personal responsiblity from us, and depending on other people to make sure we are not so stupid as to not stick a qtip all the way into our ear canal.

So I do get it, as a fellow fattie who has struggled for 20 years with a weight problem, people are insensitive jerks and not everyone falls into the "not my fault" category. However, some people do. I personally am a combination of the two. I am fat because I like to eat and don't like to move. It is really (for me) that simple. So. In my case your friend is correct.

Where your friend is completely wrong however, is putting everyone in my same category. On the flip side, I think that people need to be a bit less sensitive about other peoples insensitivites and maybe not assume that every skinny fit person is being judgemental, or does not understand, because maybe, they do.

To me it is kind of like being mean nasty and intolerant of people who are mean nasty and intolerant. They are equally the same.

I realize that my opinion is probably not very popular, all I can do is speak for myself.

My suggestion, is just either blow her comments off, which may be difficult because she obviously has negetive feelings regarding your weight. OR, try talking to her. Maybe she has her own weight issues that she is dealing with, and her extreme view and attitude are because she has to fight everyday her own urges.

LazyLioness, I have to say, for me it's the same. Except for the "I am fat," which for me would read "I have been fat..." Yeah, there have been extenuating circumstances, stress, health issues, etc but at the end of the day, I know what I am doing each day and know where it is taking me in the gain / maintain / lose continuum. I alone am to blame when I tilt towards the gain.

Wanna, I'm sorry your acquaintance (friend??) made you angry. I can't imagine why she would have thought it was okay to say those things to you. :mad:

I think most people are insensitive and unjustly prejudicial on at least a few topics (and I think it's usually a lot more than a few.)

I have mixed feelings about the general idea that there are thoughts that are ok to think, but not to say.

I think often the "ok to think, but not to say" prejudices actually end up being the most damaging, because if they're never spoken, they're also never challenged.

It's always easiest to blame and judge harshest the people who are least like ourselves (or most like the worst elements of ourselves).

I don't usually get angry when someone's prejudices are showing, but I'm also very likely to point it out, including my theory that it's easiest to point out those flaws in others that we do not see in ourselves (even if others do).

I agree with some points made here. Honestly I hate the idea of lumping people all into one group. It only further reinforces the idea that as long as you're not a part of that group having the problem, you can throw in your two cents about why someone can't overcome their issues (happens with all kinds of groups drug addicts, parents with unruly children, etc etc). Sure some people are their own worst enemy and can only blame themselves for their health issues, but at the same time it's not my place to judge and determine how easy it could be to 'fix' their problem. You have to fully walk in someone else's shoes to understand what their life is like. I saw a documentary (or a show) a loooong time ago (might have been on Lifetime)... anyway it was about this thin teenage girl who was conventionally pretty and would definitely be considered a popular student, who basically had to go undercover in a high school wearing a fat suit/makeup to make her look just like she was 100lbs heavier. This girl, behaved like she normally would, outgoing, charismatic quickly discovered how cold and cruel other kids were to her just because she was fat. She had to sit alone at lunch, kids would constantly make fun of her. Boys were cruel and dare each other to ask her out while she was in ear shot. When she did private interviews she would cry, (and lets be honest at the end of the day she could just take off that fat suit), but she would still cry because she was genuinely hurt that no matter how nice you are people take one look at you and make the conclusion that "You are this, you are that, you don't deserve my respect or sympathy."

Of course your friend obviously isn't as cruel as those kids in the school, but it's no different. She has this idea that all fat people are "lazy, because we can't be bothered with hard work of losing weight", "we are ignorant, because if we don't want to be fat we would be smart enough to figure out how not to be", worst of all that "We could be just like her, if we cut the treats and made the choices she makes we wouldn't be were we are." All of this is the same crap we hear from people who have never had to walk a day in our bodies. I'm not saying there aren't people out there (fatties included) that will do anything to preserve a delusion that nothing is wrong when something truly is. No matter what you tell them, they'll make their excuses and find ways to trick themselves into thinking it's not their fault. We've all met people like that. I have a friend who is thin, but is in poor health and she tells me constantly how she has no energy. On the outside, she hasn't made drastic changes to her diet, but she does what the doctor recommends, she's forgetful so sometimes days are worse if she forgot to take her medication etc etc. Yes it grates on my nerves sometimes because in my mind I might think if she changed her diet and was more strict about being consistent with her meds she'd be better, but instead of riding her and telling her it's her own fault I try to encourage her to take care of herself. Why? I'm blessed that aside from my weight I'm not sick. I don't have a lifelong chronic disease that zaps my energy. I don't know what her body is like so can I really stand there and say: "It's you're own fault!" The difference between myself and your friend is I don't look at every sick person who is unemployed at home and think: Gosh, what a leech on our society! If they just took their medication, and do what the doctor told them to do they'd be fit enough to work like the rest of us.

Sound familiar? "Gosh, what a drag on society! If they just exercised, and ate better they'd be fit and thin like the rest of us."

I think it's obvious your friend has found her personal comfort in controlling what she eats, and given the fact that it's considered hard work gives her an elitist attitude with a complete lack of empathy for those that struggle elsewhere. It apparently makes it difficult for her to understand why others may have found their own personal comfort in, say, eating in excess. But we all have different demons and different ways of coping with our issues.

As for nutrition information in restaurants, I think they're needed. Assumptions on calorie counts have no common sense in them, regardless of whether you're aiming for healthy or not. I don't recall off the top of my head, but there's a chain in California that serves a grilled chicken breast sandwich that's over 1000 calories, not including a side!

Well, if she has to work really hard to maintain 115 pounds – she’s not naturally thin – and probably is in a constant state of hunger, which makes her miserable and causes her to lash out against people that (she thinks) are not working as hard as her – overweight people. I’d be pretty miserable too if I had to cut out treats or not have a 16oz steak every now and then.

I am EQUALLY tired of people just blaming individuals. Society and businesses and government share A LOT of the blame. From overplaying fat to downplaying carbs IMHO.

To allowing happy meals and mass advertising at kids. For increasing the price of sugar and decreasing the price of corn. For NOT having calorie information on menus until recently.

For having food islands where (and believe it or not everyone has a car, money etc,) there are NO good food choices for the reality of what people face there and their resources.

To making foods, intentionally, many times sweeter than anything before to hook people. To introducing super sizes and pricing them so aggressively. And it goes on and on.

Yes you can take control IF you have resources which not everyone does. But our environment and society are GEARED to making us fat not healthy. And that is huge. And I think it is absurd to just point to individuals.

So if you want to be healthy you have to constantly fight against all these forces. Doable of course. But it should not be set up this way to begin.

I have an example that just occurred recently. We were at a camp out event at our local park. Food and drink were provided. There was a grape juice marketed to kids. It boldly proclaimed on the front NO ADDED SUGAR!

It was so concentrated though it contained 45, 45 grams of sugar in a 10 ounce serving which this was. We didn't let our daughter have any and I sure as heck didn't taste it. But it must have been overwhelmingly sweet to hook young ones.

Yes you could read it in the back. But you know what this stuff happens the whole world over. People are stressed and time loaded. Britain suggested a red, yellow, green system for foods. If a food product met all of some guidelines it would be a green.

They did studies. The system was SUPER effective. SUPER. Consumers LOVED it. But the food companies got it stopped precisely because it was so effective. Instead of trying to make more and more products that would get a green label they just stopped it.

So yeah, it isn't just individuals.

I am bulimic and a binge-eater, at times full-on and at times "in remission". Yet, I understand where he comes from. Because A) he has absolutely no idea what it feels like and B) there are some people who successfully overcome it.

The thing is, if your friend is really so tired of hearing about eating disorders, then it has to do with him instead of you or us. Know what I mean? Something about eating disorders is rubbing him the wrong way, and affecting him on some level. I feel sorry for him, for what he feels that makes him tired of hearing about us.

I don't know if that made sense at all!!! Sorry :)

Like what Krazy said!!! :)

Dybbuk that movie is Fat Like Me with Kaley Cuoco. Highly recommendable.

@ggbsy: Yes! That's it, I also remember seeing an experiment on TV that kind of followed that premise of the movie. So I might be blending all the events together but I do remember that movie now. Thanks!

I agree with you that personal responsibility often seems to get lost in the equation but I think the issue of food addiction or other food disorders is far more complex than the examples you've listed.

Really? I am not sure what you experience, but I don't find in my experience many people know about corn subsidies. And they certainly don't know, the vast majority, we set prices for sugar and tariff the heck out of imports to the point where sugar is more expensive in the US than anywhere else.

A lot of people don't know about food islands. They certainly haven't watched the Men Who Made Us Fat or similar stuff.

What I see day in and day out and all the time everywhere is people blaming individuals. A few isolated law suits or even many law suits doesn't mean in everyday society people aren't blaming individuals. I don't often hear look at that person McDonalds sure made them fat. Do you? What I hear is look at that fat slob or some such.

It is a complex issue. Personally it helped me as an individual to recognize all the forces making it easy to be unhealthy and overweight. That was me. It was empowering as an individual to know hey that was out there. On two levels. It made me want to 'stick it' to the Man or whatever you want to call it. Added emphasis for me to get healthy. And two it helped vastly for me to know it just wasn't me. There was billions and billions of dollars being poured into making it extremely easy to be fat. And the USDA recommendations were not, for me, healthy recommendations. Not horrible, parts are great, but not overall.

But on a daily basis people just talking, they are overwhelmingly blaming individuals. Unless I have lived in completely non-representative cities and social environments individuals are not getting off any hook in society. Not in person to person interactions.

I don't think JohnP was responding to your post....

We all have personally responsibility, that is for sure. I have an eating disorder that I didn't choose to have, but it is definitely my responsibility to manage it.

I'm sure your thin friend does, in fact, work hard to be thin. Good for her, it is no easy task for most people. But her personal experience doesn't mean she's an expert. She's an expert only in her experience. I'm an expert only in mine. But, I think if she were to read a bit more extensively on the topic with an open mind she might find that eating disorders do in fact exist.

Now, that doesn't sound likely to happen, so just take deep breaths Wannabeskinny, and let it roll off you.

I also think it is fair to recognize that the cards are getting stacked against all of us. We face a veritable barrage of images/smells/cultural cues about eating that influences us and shapes our perspectives (mostly negatively I feel).

Food manufacturers spend millions on research to make food addictive -- mostly nutritionally void food. That doesn't seem like a good thing for any of us. I thought this was an amazing eye-opening article on the subject: The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food.

I'm not saying I'm not ultimately responsible for my health, I am. But I think that person you spoke with was really over simplifying matters.

I was just saying I don't think 'personal responsibility' at all gets lost in any equation. I see people almost always blaming the individual who is overweight. Look at him or her, look at what THEY have done to themselves.

I admit it is complex from a health perspective. And yes as an individual you have to take charge.

But no matter how many lawsuits there are or are not, that doesn't change the fact that we almost always blame the individual virtually in whole for their weight. So I disagree with the other poster but also JohnP saying it somehow gets lost. I don't see it.

But here is the rub. The only way for me to get healthy was to tackle it by individual effort. Even if lawsuits were successful, doubtful in America, how is that going to help me if I was 5 years from getting diabetes? I can't turn back the clock to no super-sizing and healthier school lunches that I have already eaten. I have to fix it for me.

But I do hope to help my daughter and her peers. I will work to ban fast food ads on kids TV programs, especially young kids, and happy meals. I will work to help get her school district to serve healthier food, and a lot of other things to make it a less toxic environment for her.

Very insightful points!

Great insight thank you! I don't doubt for a second that she works hard to maintain her figure, I don't think that all thin people have it easy or anything like that. I can recognize hard work when I see it, after all I do have a graduate degree, started my own business and lead a very successful career and take care of my toddler! I'm no stranger to getting the job done. And I can see and appreciate the hard work that goes in to someone's nutrition. I clearly see people eating only a little of dessert or passing on the bread basket or going for a walk after a big meal. I don't knock her for it and I don't think it's easy for her. She's just better at it than me. I'm not so successful at it. It's not laziness, it's just hard in a way that she can't relate to.

Regarding calorie counts on menus... Really? We're going to argue about this? If you don't like it don't look at it. Like I told her (she's an acquaintance, not a friend, she's a friend of a friend that shows up sometimes at common social functions.) I said to her that I don't like tilapia at all. But it shows up on menus anyway, I just skip over it. I need those calorie counts, sometimes the count is astronomically different than what I would have calculated on my own.

I think your friend is kind of ignorant and lacks empathy! She is just one of the many people who are prejudice to people who are overweight and people who have mental health problems. Also eating disorders are vast and encompass a huge range of symptoms and I don't think gluttony and eating disorders are related. She's assuming that because she can maintain her weight of 115lbs without binging or becoming malnourished everyone must have the ability. Weight loss is a lot less about self control and motivation than people think, your body defends it's current weight. Tell her to go do some research before she starts spewing out her uneducated opinions!

I'm not really sure what you're reading but I'm usually seeing the opposite of personal responsibility in these types of conversations.

It's HFCS.

It's food manufacturers.

It's insulin.

It's something.(But it's not the dieters fault.

I enjoy reading and learning new things and I've read a ton on this subject but I don't know that I've often read many (any) publications or blog entries that blames the individual. You wouldn't sell many diet books if the premise was how it's all our fault. No one wants to read that and it's not true anyways.

We can agree on one thing. It's a complex situation. You can't seperate genetics from environment.

Unless I am missing something you're "arguing" with someone who agrees completely with you. :D

I think she meant she was arguing with Ms. "I'm too cool for fat kids".

I love calorie counts on menus! That makes life so much easier. I hate holding up a line in a restaurant or having to stand off to the side for five forevers before I order while I look up everything on a menu so I can determine what I can/can't eat. If I go in and there's calories on display, then all I have to know when I walk in is how many calories I have to play with and can choose from what I can clearly see is within my limit.

Salads can be a killer! I calculated a salad I was considering at Fatz the other day that was only 3-400 calories by itself, but the dressing that came with it made it a almost an 800 calorie salad! Um, yeah, thats why available calorie counts are important. You might be thinking you're being healthy when you're just eating some lettuce drenched in sugar oil bacon flavored juice. YUM!

While I may agree with many of your comments I do not agree with this one. Most people make a big deal out of the "coffee" lawsuit without knowing all the facts. I am sure most people would feel differently about this case if they knew the facts and/or if the 79 year old woman who had to spend 8 days in the hospital was someone they cared about. Here are just some of the facts that came out at trial:

• McDonald’s Operations Manual required the franchisee to hold its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit;
  
• Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns the worst kind of burn) in three to seven seconds;
  
• Third-degree burns do not heal without skin grafting, debridement and whirlpool treatments that cost tens of thousands of dollars and result in permanent disfigurement, extreme pain and disability of the victim for many months, and in some cases, years;
  
• The chairman of the department of mechanical engineering and bio-mechanical engineering at the University of Texas testified that this risk of harm is unacceptable, as did a widely recognized expert on burns, the editor in chief of the leading scholarly publication in the specialty, the Journal of Burn Care and Rehabilitation;
  
• McDonald’s admitted that it has known about the risk of serious burns from its scalding hot coffee for more than 10 years — the risk was brought to its attention through numerous other claims and suits, to no avail;
  
• From 1982 to 1992, McDonald’s coffee burned more than 700 people, many receiving severe burns to the genital area, perineum, inner thighs, and buttocks;
  
• Not only men and women, but also children and infants, have been burned by McDonald’s scalding hot coffee, in some instances due to inadvertent spillage by McDonald’s employees;
  
• McDonald’s admitted at trial that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;
  
• McDonald’s admitted at trial that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald’s then required temperature;
  
• McDonald’s admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;
  
• Liebeck’s treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.
  
• McDonald’s did a survey of other coffee establishments in the area, and found that coffee at other places was between 30-40 degrees cooler.

Moreover, the Shriner’s Burn Institute in Cincinnati had published warnings to the franchise food industry that its members were unnecessarily causing serious scald burns by serving beverages above 130 degrees Fahrenheit. In refusing to grant a new trial in the case, Judge Robert Scott called McDonald’s behavior “callous.”

Plaintiff: The plaintiff was a 79 year old woman named Stella Liebeck.
Location: In 1992 Stella was riding as a passenger in a vehicle driven by her grandson in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
The Scene: Ms. Liebeck and her grandson pulled into a drive thru at a local McDonald’s Restaurant. After purchasing the coffee, the grandson pulled the car to a nearby curb and stopped the car so Ms Liebeck could add sugar and cream to her coffee. Stella was holding the cup between her legs. When she removed the lid from the cup it turned over and spilled into her lap.
Was the car stopped?
Fiction: I always hear “the car was moving” when Stella spilled the coffee. Not true!
Truth: The car was stopped.
Was Stella seriously injured?
Fiction: Stella only suffered minor injuries.
Truth: Stella suffered 3rd degree burns over 16% of her body. The burns were to her inner thighs, buttocks, perineum, and genital and groin area. The burns went as deep as her bone. She was wearing sweatpants which were literally burned into her skin.
Did Stella require hospitalization?
Fiction: Stella didn’t require hospitalization.
Truth: Stella was in the hospital for 8 days and underwent multiple debridement and skin-grafting surgeries.
Did Stella ever try to settle this for a lesser sum of money?
Fiction: Stella never tried to settle the case.
Truth: There was an early attempt to settle for the medical bills of approximately $11,000. Later Ms. Liebeck offered to settle for $90,000. McDonald’s generously offered $800.
Was the coffee too hot?
Myth: The coffee was not too hot
Truth: Testimony showed that the coffee was heated to 180 to 190. At 180 degrees, liquids can cause burns to human skin in 2 to 7 seconds. Coffee served at home is generally 135 degrees. Many commercial establishements serve coffee in the range of 130 degrees to 140 degrees. A burn risk exists with any coffee over 140 degrees.
Myth: McDonalds was not on notice that there coffee was causing burns
Truth: There was 700 other coffee burn cases that McDonald’s was aware of.
Myth: Stella received $2,700,000 in compensatory damages.
Truth: Actually Stella was only awarded $200,000 which was later reduced by the Judge to $160,000. The trial Judge reduced the $2,700,000 punitive damages to $480,000. Punitive damages were put in place to punish corporations for bad acts. Consequently the bulk of any punitive damage award in the State of New Mexico goes to the State of New Mexico.
Obviously, there is much more to this case than the “stigma” applied by insurance industry. The insurance industry has spent millions of dollars distorting this story to advance tort reform. Don’t buy the 30 second sound bites. Arm yourself with the facts.


Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. Please take the time to look at the links below or do a google search for "facts" of the McDonald's Coffee Case.

http://www.brookslawgroup.com/blog/s...t-coffee-case/
http://www.citizen.org/hot-coffee
http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-...ers-video.html
http://mentalfloss.com/article/26862...coffee-lawsuit

I appreciate nutritional information for chain restaurants. Obviously what you get isn't going to match exactly since there will be some variation in the cooking but it is a good hard reality check. I'm planning a trip in november, to a place with a lot of restaraunts I don't normally have access too I've already been scouring the nutritional information. Planning in advance is the only thing that helps me keep from overeating in any sort of real way.

I'm with ya, I don'ts ee how having that info available hurts anyone. And it helps me... make some smarter choices once in a while.

I'm curious. How hot is coffee normally served? I'm not an expert but I was under the impression that coffee from most places was hot enough to cause serious burns and the only thing that has changed at McDonalds is that now the cup has a warning label?

Not disagreeing ... just wondering since you have done a lot more investigation into this case than most people.

"Testimony showed that the coffee was heated to 180 to 190. At 180 degrees, liquids can cause burns to human skin in 2 to 7 seconds. Coffee served at home is generally 135 degrees. Many commercial establishements serve coffee in the range of 130 degrees to 140 degrees. A burn risk exists with any coffee over 140 degrees."

"McDonald’s admitted at trial that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk"

Further down on the page at this link - http://www.scarymommy.com/message-bo...ent-warning/p1 - is a picture of burned legs. Below that is a comment and a link to a very graphic picture of this woman's burns. They are horrible and I, for one, am disgusted that any establishment felt it was okay to sell something at a temperature that could cause that kind of damage (and they were aware of the risk). I think of my mother, who I lost a year ago at the age of 82, and how I would have felt if something like this had happened to her. Or a child. Or anyone, for that matter.

I have known from a young age that if spill l something hot on me it will probably burn, if it just came off the stove, it is hot.

Did you even bother to read the details? Everyone knows coffee is hot. What McDonald's was doing was serving their coffee at such a temperature to cause severe burns. McDonald's policy was to serve their coffee between 180 and 190 degrees - that's 50-60 degrees higher than the Shriner’s Burn Institute says is a safe temperature. Of course you expect coffee to be hot . . . you don't expect it to cause burns clear to the bone. Even McDonald's said the temperature of their coffee made it not fit for consumption when sold because it caused severe scalds if spilled or drunk.

Regarding the calorie count on menus I was referring to this. I don't approach nutrition and weight loss like this at all. I need the calorie counts. Some people need them and some people don't. I have no problem ordering a 16oz steak if I know it fits into my daily intake or if I'm doing IF. Most of the time I have great leftovers, what's it to anyone?

And this is why there are labels saying irons are hot.

McDonalds (and every other fast food place) admitted to serving their coffee hotter than necessary to ensure that it stayed hot during a commute. Yes I have done research as well. And the lady was parked in her car holding her coffee between her legs. Her own admission.

Was the coffee scalding hot. Yes. Was mcdonalds in some way responsible. Yes. Was the lady who put hot coffee between her legs ultimately responsible or spilling her own coffee on her own lap. Yes.

For me....weight is the same. Yes, I may have a sensitivity to carbs, yes, I may be a good addict, yes, I may have depression or something that causes me to binge. But while these are all reasons, at the end if the day, i still make the conscious choice to put the food in my mouth, sit my butt on the couch and not work out. My choice, my problem, my consequences.

MY responsibility.

I'm not sure if that quote from the article is accurate. A bit of googling on the topic shows that coffee is served at quite a bit higher tempatures but it's all a bit confusing. My 10 minutes of googling makes it seem like industry standard from commercial places is 160-175 degrees which makes McDonald's at the time not significantly higher. All I know for sure coffee at Starbucks is way hotter than what I make at home.

Anyways ... way off topic. :D

Just as an FYI, this was a case we studied in college. So I am familiar. But....

Coffee. Is. Hot.


Any two year old who has grabbed their parents coffee cup knows that.

We are regulating ourselves stupid and irresponsible. Our kids are learning about food and choices by watching the adults point the blame finger at everyone else.

Everyone has an addiction, everyone has an illness. Everyone has a reason for their bad choices. Guess what. I have an addiction, it's called putting food in face.

I know that sounds harsh and I know that it's not that black and white. But really,honestly let's think about this. We are the fattest nation in the world. And the richest.

We spend time eating crap, sitting on our butts, driving down the block to starbucks, and demanding instant gratification

If all of these "sensitivities" and "disorders" were for real, why are they just now manifesting themselves?

Because fat and excuses and self help gurus are big bucks!

Again, I can only speak for myself. I am fat, because I eat. I eat my feelings, good or bad. It's nobodies fault. It's choices I have made.

That being said. I like the calories on menus and nutritional information on packages. I just happen to not think that its a resturaunts fault I am fat, nor their responsibility to tell me that pizza is full of stuff I shouldn't be eating a lot of.

And yes. When I get to goal, and I work my butt off everyday to stay in shape, darn right I am going to be proud (some would say elitist) about it. Anyone who loses weight , kicks an addiction, graduates or does anything that takes dedication and work deserves to be proud of their accomplishment. Not going to apologize for it. And not going to beat people up for their choices, as long as they take the control and the power..and own their choices.

I love me some calorie counts on restaurant menus. While it's true that people can be surprised that certain meals contain more calories than expected, it can also be true that there are meals containing fewer calories than expected. A beef burger with a salad (dressing on the side) is a very reasonable meal. I have found that rather than limit my choices, the nutritional information provided allows me to experiment more than I normally would.

I think the calorie counts irritate some people the way that having vegetarian or vegan or gluten-free items can irritate them. Maybe they feel they are being judged if they order a high-calorie, animal-killin' dish?

Or they question whether it actually helps people. But rather than admit they're wrong when someone (like me!) says it is helpful, they just say that "society is lazy" or "people need to accept responsibility", blah, blah.

While going up and down the scale (down at the moment), I have come to realize that my intelligence, motivation and personality are not tied to the number on the scale. I am not more motivated to lose/maintain weight now just because I'm in maintenance mode. I am not less likely to initiate a "frivolous" lawsuit because I lost a lot of weight.

You sound just like that acquaintance of mine. And just as angry. I don't know why there is so much anger directed towards people who are suffering. It's not like we hurt others with our eating disorders. Out addictions don't cause us to get behind a wheel drunk, or gamble away our family's savings. You don't need to tell me that I'm in control of my own destiny, I've spent decades if my life hating myself for my weaknesses and feeling hopeless. Your attitude is rather sad, I do hope you achieve your goals. For me, I finally realized that the processed foods I was eating were creating hormonal and chemical changes in my body and that's not entirely my fault. Come on, you said it yourself, we're the fattest nation on the planet. Do you honestly believe that the basis of American principals have changed so much in the last 40 yrs that all Americans just all of a sudden became lazy slobs without good reason? At best that's a far fetched idea and the most cynical. There's a reason things happen.

I have seen other posts by you on this topic and they make my day! :carrot: Seriously! I think maybe the reason that the vast majority of the people here don't agree with this is that it comes very naturally to fat people to hate and blame themselves. Never mind that they were addicted to crap food for many years before they even knew their was a problem, and probably long before the age of majority, never mind that those foods were engineered to make them addicted, never mind that they were told over and over to avoid the foods that were good for them and would help them reverse some of the damage and to focus their attention on eating those "healthy" (wheat thins!) foods that would just dig them in deeper, never mind that it is 100 times easier to find and pay for food that is going to make them worse off. They are fat and they are to blame and if they point any of that out they aren't taking personal responsibility. The whole thing makes me want to vomit. But thank you, diamondgeog! I feel a bit better to know that you are out there. :)

And MamaP, very interesting about that case! I didn't know the details. Sorry the personal responsibility mantra reared it's ugly head in response. I for one am amazed that McD's would purposely do that. Ugh.