How vs. Why
 

(Mods, feel free to move this if it’s not in its proper place.) This is just something I was thinking about, and I decided that I’d share my thoughts.

The other day, my boyfriend was telling me how he saw an extremely obese woman riding a scooter into the Y. He then asked me how someone could get to that weight. (He wasn’t disgusted by the woman or anywhere close to it, he was just genuinely curious as to how that could happen.) At the time I told him that it’s not just physical, but mental.

Now that I’ve had some time to think about it, I’ve realized that he and others like him are asking the wrong question. The question is really why people become overweight or obese, not how. I think everyone here knows how they gained weight or, for those like myself who have been overweight the majority of their lives, how they never lost weight. Discerning how we gained or never lost weight is not difficult if we’re honest with ourselves. Discovering why we gained or never lost weight is incredibly difficult; it’s a knot of emotional issues that is hard to untangle.

All too often people, even people who should know better, assume that others are obese because they just don’t have the willpower not to be. I think that if more people realized that it’s a question of why and not how we might make progress towards dealing with obesity as a social issue.

I think the hows and the whys are important, but I think they're both often overlooked. The assumptions can drive the treatment attempts, and may be ineffective because of the assumptions.

I spent most of my life thinking that the "why" had to be social, emotional or mental. I never guessed that it was physiological (it's really the only avenue I never pursued, because I thought low-carb eating was unhealthy, so I never attempted it). I thought emotional problems drove my eating, and eventually learned that my eating (the carb content) was causing the emotional problems.

The whys and the hows are both important. There are no universals in obesity. There are genetic, physiological, biological, cultural, social, financial and emotional factors, and the role and importance of each is unique to the individual.

I was taught to believe that only severe emotional problems could result in morbid obesity. To be "that fat" you had to be really messed up in the head. I suspect it was the motivation for choosing psychology as my field of study, both as an undergraduate and in graduate school (for my M.A. degree) - trying to figure myself out.

The answer was truly so simple, it was right under my nose and I never explored it. Low-carb eating actually solves all of my emotional issues - I'm a saner, more rational person when I avoid high-carb foods and keep my overall carb content low. I suspect a primarily genetic issue (for a lot of reasons).

It's taken me nearly 40 years to find the solution to my problem, because I was looking for my answers (for both the hows and the whys) in the wrong place.

Suspecting physiological problems when the how/whys are psycho-social, or suspecting psycho-social when the how/whys are physiological will both likely result in ineffective treatment. We need better diagnostic tools and better treatment strategies, for now experimentation is all we've got. Often people fail because they repeat the same experiment, expecting new results despite past experience.

“If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten.”

I so agree with this. Although I would never go around saying this, I have always felt that many people who are overweight may have underlying psychological issues that they need help with (myself included). I doubt if anyone would deliberately choose to be unhealthy and deprive themselves of pride of appearance. I also understand that some medical conditions contribute to obesity, but most of them can be overcome with effort. I have heard people say that they simply "love food" as a reason for their overweight. This does not ever ring true to me.
Your observation is correct: The "why" is always important. The "how" we already understand. Our society judges from the outside, and sees only
lack of willpower.

I highly disagree that everyone who is overweight has a "why" or even a "how". Sometimes it's just what is. Personally, I had to find out the right weight loss combination that would work for me and the number one factor has been patience coupled with simply making a commitment to a plan. We live in a very fast paced society and all, ALL weight loss advertisements, which are EVERYWHERE, spout about getting the weight off in 6 weeks. We want it now. Anything less than immediate is considered sub-par.

Getting over that mental factor has been the secret to my success. I never took my weight gain casually. I have been fighting it tooth and nail since the day it started piling on. I have no mental hang ups about it, no bingeing problems, and for the most part, I love myself. :D

Hmm.. interesting topic. I have to say that, for *some* people, there may not really be a why. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. My eating habits before losing weight weren't really THAT bad. Honestly. The problem was my portion control. I mean, I NEVER ate fast food, literally. I stayed away from the majority of processed food type stuff at the grocery store. I ate plenty of vegetables, fruits and proteins. I even bought whole wheat in place of white whenever I had the option. It was never in hopes of losing weight, it was just kind of my lifestyle.

I never exercised, though. For some reason, I had told myself that the "average" busy, working and college going woman just didn't have the time. (Maybe this is even true, statistically. How many people REALLY do work out regularly?)

Anyway, if anyone is interested in some math: I recently looked up the calories to maintain my weight when I was heavy, and although the calculator may be off, the number I got was 2384 calories a day. Like I said, it may be somewhat off, but even if I count how many pounds a week I lost at the beginning of my journey. Let's say 3 pounds/week. So that's 3500 X 3, right? Which is 10,500 calories/week that I ate in addition to the 1200/day (or 8400/week) that I ate in the new plan. So, I ate 2700/day (10,500 + 8400, then divide that by 7). BUT, in my new plan, I worked out every day. I burned A LOT of calories because I was out of shape and heavy. If I burned even 400/day, that would mean that before I started I was eating... 2300/day.

Anyway, I know this is very long winded but it's actually something I've been thinking about. Everyone assumes that there are "reasons." Jillian Michaels always tries to get through to contestants and find the root. Is it possible that some people just eat too much and don't realize it? I understand that this is absolutely not the case for everyone, but some people? Does there have to be something wrong with me psychologically?

Well, there's always a how. You know, the physical explanation. But otherwise, I agree with what you are saying. I have no emotional hangups with food. None. I have wavering self-esteem at times, but I've thought about it a lot and concluded that I definitely don't have emotional eating problems.

No, for me it was as simple as falling victim to societies dietary standards and not realizing it. Sharing half a bowl of Mac' N Cheese and a burger isn't a normal lunch? What? (Thanks hubby...) My mother doesn't calorie count, she believes in just eating a round diet, when you're hungry, and you eat what you need. Eh, not so simple for everyone. In high school, not an issue. College? Well, my caveman, eat-when-you-can and as-much-as-you-can instincts combined with out of whack portions everywhere you looked for weight gain and poor knowledge of nutrition.

There was no "why". Just ignorance, more or less. (I knew better, I think, at some point. It just a long time to admit that I couldn't eat the way I wanted to. Which is to say, what I'd become accustomed to.)

So, for some there will be deeper "why" issues worth going in to. But it would be completely impossible to look at a person and know. There are just too many possibilities, and not every one of them is going to go deeper than the surface. For some, it really is just ignorance, laziness, health problems, etc.

I guess the easy answer is that the "how" is obvious and the "why" is not obvious, or even universal.

I grew up obese and never really had a chance to know thin properly. I knew thin bitterly, as something I wanted but didn't know how to obtain. I knew thin as clothing sizes and popularity. I didn't know (or wouldn't accept, what have you) thin as health and happiness. So that may be why I never tried to lose weight - because I was trying to acheive happiness through everything except healthiness. It's complicated, but that's probably my reason when it boils down to it.

The "how" is bad eating habits, not exercising, not taking responsibility for ourselves, and all of that lovely mumbo jumbo. The "why" cannot be so easily explained, in my eyes, because it's different for everyone.

This still doesn't make it any easier to answer people when they ask me why I decided to lose weight! I always say "health" but it's really not that simple.

Is it possible that some people just eat too much and don't realize it? I understand that this is absolutely not the case for everyone, but some people?

While I've got other issues going on like PCOS/IR, I agree with this.

Some foods just don't trigger my "fullness" button. I can put away a Mcdonald's meal worth 1000 calories and just not feel full!

But I make a burger and a baked potato at home and I'm stuffed.

A whole loaf of the "puffy ballon bread" kind of loaves is nothing. I bake bread myself and one slice is filling.

Ready to eat cereals are like air. Rolled oats? Quite full after that.

I think there's something about manufactured/processed food that is messed up somehow. And if people have a lot of that going on in their diet, they may eat more just because they aren't feeling full.

A.

I do think that America's view on food has ruined a lot of people, especially families. The view that bigger is better and junk food is a required staple in every household is pretty massive. It's commonplace to buy several cases of soda, candy bars, ice-cream, frozen pizza, and other processed garbage at the store, then stop at McDonald's on the way home, and then "pretend" you've cooked a meal by slapping together Hamburger Helper.

We are lazy and everything has become easy to accommodate us. Food isn't food anymore, it's chemicals and drugs, but we're too tired to fight against it.

A little OT maybe, but it just disturbs me.

I think I agree with your assessment. My problem for years was portion control. I did not eat normal servings. 8 weeks ago when I began measuing and weighing it was shocking in some instances! Like pasta - we eat a lot of pasta and when I saw how little one 2 oz serving of pasta was I realized that when I normally ate it I piled about 6 servings on to my plate!!!!

I recently wrote a blog post about why I am fat. I think for years I have bought into there must be an emotional/mental reason.....and there may have been and food became a comfort, but the bottom line is the excess food made me fat. Now I need to go write an update. Thanks for your post - it makes so much sense.

I used to think there was a "why" for me, and I worked very hard, by God's grace, to get to a mental place of forgiveness and health with that particular issue.

But that didn't change the eating. I just ate too much, of the wrong kinds of things. And the doctor's "wrong kinds of things" were not MY kinds of "wrong kinds of things".

Finally, like Kaplods, I realized that carbs were the key for me. I've been insulin-resistant and dx with PCOS for years, but it never really connected with my eating. My doc told me to exercise more, but since there were no immediate changes that fell by the wayside quickly. And being told to eat "healthily" just doesn't cut it when you're carb-sensistive.

I am pretty firmly convinced now, from the studies I've read on insulin resistance, that I have the genetic disposition to insulin resistance, and when I gained weight as a child it was because of that. Then, of course, I tried eating whole grains to lose weight... which only made me hungrier, because my body wasn't able to utilize the carbs in the food I was eating, so I kept eating. It's a vicious cycle that feeds on itself -- hunger --> eating carbs --> body not able to utilize carb-energy, so sends hunger signals --> eating carbs.

Now I'm more able to short-cut that cycle by cutting back on grains, sweets, and starches. I can SEE the results of my food choices in by blood glucose monitor readings. I can SEE the results of my exercise in the readins. I'm seeing the weight slowly but surely disappear.

This "version" of my weight-loss life has been a revelation to me.

I totally, TOTALLY 100% agree with you.

I know, without a doubt that I got to 333 pounds because I was lazy, and tired of fighting it. I gave up, I didn't care, and I kept in the back of my mind that I'll "do it" later. I became addicted to the computer and Lifetime TV. I drank too much, I became a slave to "box/cans/bags" of food and basically said "F" it. I was the queen of excuses, the lady of denial.

That is HOW and WHY for me.

(Oh and BTW it pisses me off to no end when I see morbidly obese people taking/using all the motor carts at our local Wal-mart. They park their cars and walk in the store (under their own power) and set down on a cart...Then the little old ladies hobble and struggle to get their walkers out of their cars and can barely make it into the store, and then have to walk it to shop because all the fat people are using up the motor cars. )

I'm right there with you, sister! The very people who ride those scooters, take the elevator to the second floor, use the handicapped methods of entering a building, etc. are the very ones who complain about being obese but "just can't seem to lose the weight." I understand the pain of being morbidly obese, but when I see commercials that shun exercise and dedication in favor of pills and easy way out methods of getting the weight off, I am stuck thinking about how LAZY America has become. I've literally lost all of my compassion for people who refuse to lose weight because of being stubborn. :mad:

Our laziness has made us fat and now we are trying to find lazy ways to get thin again. It's madness!

I have a family member who is morbidly obese, possibly as heavy as I used to be when I started, and she has a handicapped ticket for parking. The thing is - she isn't handicapped. Her mother was handicapped (because of morbid obesity actually, but she was definitely legit still unable to walk) and now this person is using that to park in handicapped spaces.

I am sad when I think about things like that for too long.. it's just depressing, isn't it?

One reason: http://xkcd.com/418/

Second reason: I have a bad case of "if some is good, more is better". This made and kept me fat for two reasons: one, the tendency to order the large of everything, because it's only twenty cents more or whatever. Like I was wasting something if I didn't get the most I could handle. But two, and this is also a big deal, it meant that when I dieted I ate 900-1200 calories a day, because if fewer calories was good, a LOT fewer calories were better, right? Which lead to binging and a general dread of dieting. Learning to moderate my intake has been a huge trial. As a Terry Pratchett character once said, "I don't really have middle gears, you know?".

As far as fat people on scooters go: I really think one ought to withhold judgment. They may well be fat because they are immobile: someone might have half a foot missing or a really bad back or something and be quite able to walk across a parking lot, but not walk and stand throughout a grocery store for an hour, and that lack of exercise has lead to weight gain. Not the best choices, perhaps, but not worse choices than many of the rest of us made--just worse consequences. Even if only 10% of those people are "legitimate", it's better for my mental health to give all of them the benefit of the doubt than to go around angry. And I am sure that "legitimate" 10% (or more) of morbidly obese + handicapped people catch **** from people making assumptions, and I am sure the guilt and shame they feel is beyond imagining.

I think not everyone's experience is the same. Growing up, we never had junk food or boxed foods in the house and we hardly ever had fast food (although I did like taco bell bean burritos growing up). We also didn't go out to eat in general very often as we didn't have a lot of money. My mom cooked everything from scratch and she still does. She also took me to nutritioinists/various doctors from a very young age as I started gaining at the age of 6. So we often ate vegetables, fruit and I learned to read labels at a fairly young age.

She also enrolled me in ballet/tap dance and I was part of normal after school activities. In the summer, I had a pool membership and the pool was a mile away. I walked to the pool every day in the summer, and walked home. I also walked other places and had a bus pass to take me places that weren't in walking distance. When I got into high school, I would take exercise classes every day and I specifically took up weight lifting. Oh and the school was nearly a mile away which I walked to/from school.

Anyway, despite all the above, I was 300 lbs by the age of 14. Why? Well mixture of things I imagine, I had PCOS which wasn't diagnosed until my late 20s. I also became a binge eater from a young age. And yes you can get fat on 'healthier' foods.

The why I became morbidly obese isn't as important to me as the how I can personally fight it.

Yeah, I have to second the notion about giving the folks in the scooters the benefit of the doubt. :^: It's the chicken and the egg thing, ya know. My mom had surgery 20 years ago that damaged a junction of three nerves so now she is in constant nerve pain, like being stung by bees 24 hours a day. She went from 90 pounds (4'11) to 195 lbs (and shrunk to 4'9"). She can barely walk and I wish she'd get a scooter. But she doesn't want to be seen as one of "them". Her weight gain is because of the disability and not the other way around.

And as far as scooters go, the event that helped trigger my weight loss was me slipping down some stairs while one of my legs was caught behind me. I ended up straining a knee ligament. I could barely walk and when I did walk it was quite painful. I never used any scooters in stores but at work, I asked about parking in the handicap spots because the parking lot was actually quite a distance from the front door but the handicap spots were 20 feet from the front door. They told me to go ahead after I explained my predicament. Anyway, despite there being plenty of handicap spots, there was one person who complained that I was parking in the handicap spot without a placard. I felt bad parking there but I was also enduring a lot of pain at the time and it wasn't as if I was taking a spot away from anyone.

My husband and I would be thise people. You wouldn't know it to look at my husband, so you'd be pissed off, but the truth is he has a degenerative joint condition. He was told at 17 (when he was a fit, young athlete) after his first knee surgery, that he would be disabled by 30 (by sheer force of will, he made it to 35).

He gained weight as he became less and less able to be as active as he was in his teens, even though he worked extremely strenuous jobs and went to the gym for 3 hour workouts 3 times a week (when I met him nine years ago, when he was 31). His doctors say it's possible that the extra weight actually may have helped slow the joint degeneration (because his bone density and muscle mass allowed his bones to do some of the work his joints and tendons would have otherwise had to do). If he'd been fat and inactive, it would have sped the degenerations - but fat and active was a combination that may have actually been moderately helpful - bad for his heart, but it added several years to his working life.

Of course, now that he is unable to work, there's no "up side" to his weight, and he's having a hard time getting it off. This guy who even at his highest weight, did jobs most men weren't strong enough to do, now uses a cane in the winter and on bad days, the Walmart carts.

He is a fat, disabled man who when he loses the weight will be a thin, disabled man, but people will believe he only has a right to use the cart when he's thin.

I on the other hand, have fibromyalgia and 95% of the time will stay home rather than use a cart on a bad day - because of the stigma of using the cart when you're overweight - again I feel that I only "deserve" to use the cart when I'm at a normal weight.

My FIL who recently passed away had MS and PAD and used a cart (full-time, so he had his own). He didn't become overweight until AFTER he became disabled, but for many years (until his amputation) he also looked like a healthy, fat man who didn't deserve to use the cart. Initially, when he first started using the cart, he could walk under his own power for quite a length of time, but because of the risk of falling, his doctor wanted him using the cart.

Sometimes appearances can be deceiving.

That is a big'ol buncha truth right there! America's food has become mostly processed, bagged, boxed, frozen, canned stuff. If a meal takes more than 20 minutes to prepare, then it just ain't worth it, and it oft-times ends up with a "honey, could you swing by Subway on your way home?!?!?!" :dizzy:

This is part of my overweight problem. I don't like to cook. NEVER HAVE. At 46 years old, probably never will. But through trial and error, I have learned easier ways to prepare food without relying on processed junk. That's not to say that I don't open the occasional can of corn or peas, but I would much rather have corn on the cob or REAL potatoes as opposed to the fake boxed kind. And if you stop & think about it, most processed food IS full of chemicals & so forth. Heck, even FRESH fruits & veggies can be chock-full of chemicals and pesticides, which is why so many doctors, etc. are touting the organic route these days.

All I know for sure is how/why I got to this particular weight (for the ....6th?.... time in my adult life!!!!) and what does/doesn't work for me to get it off. HOW / WHY did I get this way? I love food, and I eat too much of it. Ouch. But true. :cbg:

I'm definitely in the "who cares" camp about how and why. When people ask how I'm losing weight, the basic answer is eat less, move more, and the opposite of that would be the reason I gained - ate too much, didn't move enough. Maybe I don't have some deep understanding of why I did that, but for me, that's less important than making the choice to commit to a healthy lifestyle and sticking with it.

The one thing that has actually been the biggest revelation for me is that my commitment to this lifestyle doesn't have to be perfect and if I mess up, I just need to pick myself up and keep going in the right direction. Before, if I wasn't perfect, I would just give up. Now I just let myself enjoy it if I go off plan, and then just make the better choice the next time. If I get to my goal a day later that I would have, or even months later, what does it matter in the end?

for me, it had a real emotional component, I was a compulsive binge eater for many years. I felt addicted to food and like it was all I thought about. I had periods of dieting and losing lots of weight -- and food and eating would be all I thought about.

once I broke through some of the emotional garbage, I had to deal with breaking bad habits. and I had to adopt new exercise habits, which actually took me quite a while. I didn't feel like doing much as 300 plus pounds, believe me. Lazy? I felt more embarrassed, uncomfortable, scared. I felt terrified walking into the gym at 260 lbs. I'm sure there was lots of denial going on as well, not WANTING to have to deal with it. (Still have some of that.)

I'm sure there are physiological factors that go on with my weight loss too.

It's taken me A LOT of mindful, constant work to get to the point where I am now, which is still some distance to the finishing line.

just wanted to quickly add that I personally feel that will power has had very little to do with it

I have to say that I am quite surprised to hear from 3FC posters that think that laziness and ignorance is the main reason for obesity and that seeing them using those carts is anger inducing. Could it be that those who have overcome a significant weight problem feel that since they did it, everyone should be able to?
This view perpetuates society's continued disdain of fat people. As I lose weight, I realize the many reasons that people are heavy and I try not to judge them. I have not walked in their shoes.

Laziness and ignorance are not at all the same thing. I was ignorant about weight loss: I thought I could only lose weight if I ate no more than 1200 calories a day, I thought there was no point in exercising if I couldn't stay in the "target zone" for 25 minutes, I thought a calorie was a calorie and macronutrients didn't matter. When I learned about these things, I lost weight.

I am not ashamed of my ignorance--it's not a character flaw, like laziness would be. Many doctors are ignorant about those exact same things. Saying that ignorance contributes to obesity in this country is a comment on our society, not on individuals.

I have a 'how' and a 'why'... and they are both a pain in the butt to manage!:D

Yep, I completely agree with Shmead. Ignorance is very different from laziness. As I had said earlier. I was ignorant about portion size. I was ignorant about exercise. I was not lazy. I am not lazy.

Oh and on the topic of the carts in stores, for some reason it never occurred to me that people used them without having a "medical" need for them. For some reason, I just always assumed people who used them needed them and no one would choose to use one if she/he didn't need it. :shrug:

I agree with Shmead
But we are lazy in the US and Canada.

I of course agree that laziness and ignorance are not the same thing. Both were given as main reasons that people are overweight, which did surprise me coming from this forum.

I once was berated in a grocery store for using the cart. I was obese at the time. My kneecap had also recently dislocated (I had a congenital knee defect that has been surgically corrected in both knees which caused this). I basically hop/limped into the store (my partner dropped me off right in front)...I had crutches, but quickly learned that they were near impossible to manage on the cart (they're longer, and when you turned, they'd take out things on shelves), and impossible to use while pushing a regular cart or holding a hand basket, so I usually didn't bring them into stores - I verified a motorized cart was available visually, then left my crutches in the car).

I got on the motorized cart, so grateful that I wouldn't have to basically hop around the store. Other than one leg being held relatively straight on the cart, I didn't have any obvious signs of being temporarily disabled (I had my brace on under loose sweatpants). I was able to stand to get items off of high shelves by hoisting myself up on the cart handlebars, all weight on the good leg, and I did this to grab something.

A woman in the aisle laid into me HARD about "lazy fat people" using the carts, taking them from people with ACTUAL injuries, that she saw me stand up and get things off of high shelves, that I ought to be just ASHAMED of myself for taking carts away from people who needed them, and that I'd lose weight if I just got off my butt and walked a little bit. She just kept on going. That is, until I silently rolled up my pant leg to show her my nearly full-leg brace, at which point she beat a hasty retreat (literally turned and walked away without another word!).

I went home and sobbed. And I started putting my brace on OVER my pants after that, if I thought I might need to use a scooter.

We never, ever know why someone chooses to use a scooter. It had never occurred to me that someone might think it was just "fat people being lazy" until someone publically berated and humiliated me.

Why? Laziness, I can see--I don't think obese people are any more likely to be any more lazy than anyone else--but it seems obvious to me that ignorance is a major cause of obesity in this country. That's not picking on anyone or insulting anyone or anything. I'm not saying "ignorant" as some sort of code for stupid or low-class. I mean I, a college-educated, fairly intelligent, perfectly capable adult woman was deeply, deeply ignorant about weight management and it contributed to my obesity to a significant degree. I think that my experience is pretty common and that even the people that are supposed to know this stuff--first and foremost, doctors--do not.

I truly do not understand what in that is a controversial statement. I am not being coy here--if I am implying something mean-spirited when I say "ignorance contributes to obesity", please illuminate me: I assure you it is unintentional.

I guess maybe the better wording would be...

UNMODIVATED instead of lazy. BUT to me they end up with the same result.

...or ridden on their scooter!

(I'm sorry! I couldn't help it! My totally twisted sense of humor rears its ugly head! :devil: forgive me??? :^: )

I agree with you - I'm the same way. I was so ultra-thin during my hi-school & college years & now that I've hit a high of 192 after dieting/losing/gaining/dieting/losing/gaining for two+ decades, I too realize the many reasons that people are fat - and I try not to be judgmental. I try not to be judgmental even on myself! -and believe me! - that ain't easy!

While it's true that some people may be lazy/ignorant, there are also quite many who have had physical ailments, emotional toils, or even mental problems that many of us have simply never dealt with. These kinds of problems can & do cause weight gain for a lot of folks. Who are we to judge? I'm fat, you're fat, they're fat, he's fat, she's fat - so what? The important thing is that we're HERE & trying to do something about it, even if we're not all completely successful, even if some of us put the weight back on after taking it off, and some of us doing it several times ("that'd be me, y'all!) .... the point is, fat is fat. Doesn't matter why or how or even how fat we are. Losing weight is never easy, it is not (well, shouldn't be!) quick, and it takes a great deal more than simple will power.

It's up to us to cheer each other on; not drag one another down. :hug: to all!

I hope I didn't anger anyone with my comments about laziness and ignorance - they weren't directed at individual people, but at our society as whole. I understand that people have different situations.

As for the scooter thing, I don't really pay much attention to people on scooters, except to give them room in an aisle when they need it. My grocery stores always seem to have enough for everyone who needs one. My thoughts on judgment are pretty much the same as everone else here. The views I have on society aren't because I am judging anyone in society, but rather just commenting about it - taking that information from the amount of processed food we consume, the obesity stats, etc. There's no emotional attachment or intent to offend.

I do believe that.

I mean, I take into consideration that everyone has a different situation. I completely understand that it's harder for some than others. I sympathize with anyone who struggles with their weight - but yes, I do believe that anyone can lose it. I had to learn to believe that so I could START.

For me, it's a complex issue.

I didn't believe in the simple mathematics of weight loss & maintenance. I had weight all mixed up with ideas about being personally damned, in some way, or not being one of the elect. So I lost any sense of agency & self-determination. Looked at in that way, it just seemed hopeless, as if any effort I made was futile because I would always put the weight back on.

My view of this has undergone a dramatic change: Yes, I know I am probably one of the more metabolically challenged, genetically, but I know I can give it a good fight.

I agree that I was ignorant. It's hard to remember just how ignorant. Like trying to go back to being illiterate, in a way. By now, I don't have to think anymore about what the calories are in an apple vs. a banana, or the nutrients in a sweet potato as opposed to a big white baked potato, or how many calories are in a can of regular, nondiet cola. It's easy for me to forget now how much reading I did -- and still do -- trying to keep up with the science of calories in/calories out. I can't believe when, for instance, my mother doesn't automatically know this stuff.

There is also an emotional component. And yes, I've got self-esteem issues. I've struggled with depression.

Also I just don't eat like other people. Food has a druglike allure for me. In another thread, someone was talking about being nearly mesmerized by the sight of cinnamon buns. How she had to talk herself out of them, not look at them. That would be me. In the past, I let myself become weak at such moments. My world narrows down to me & the food. When I'm eating, I'm out of time & nearly out of this world, totally engrossed in the physical pleasure. It's like an out-of-body experience, almost. Or like an infant at the breast.

When something can do that for you -- even though it's only temporary & there's remorse later & payment comes due one day -- oh boy, watch out. Any thought of long-term effects evaporates in the face of the immediate prospect of pure pleasure. It's hard to postpone gratification all the time, even if it is a very adult thing & in part what separates us from animals.

While it's an individual's responsibility to deal with their health, I don't think society is helping us much.

Obesity is rampant in the U.S. and I don't think it's because millions of individuals independently decided to eat more and move less. Portion sizes have gotten large, the car culture remains entrenched, and now many people spend more time in front of a tv or a computer, than a campfire or playground.

I think we can support efforts to make our communities healthier such as getting rid of junk food in schools. Or organizing volunteer sports teams. In my city, I support the efforts to make Philadelphia more bicycle friendly.

I didn't mean to make this sound like a public service announcement, but I care about this issue a lot. :)

Originally Posted by Cglasscock1
Are you really surprised? American Calvinism has always lauded pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Your prosperity in this world is entirely self-determined, by you using your brains & hard work -- continual hard work, six days a week -- to get by. And if you don't do the work, then you're lazy. And you deserve nothing. According to this doctrine, sloth is a terrible sin. Those who do the work are rewarded (with wealth, or in this case, thinness) and those who do not, are damned (with poverty, or fat). Fatness thus is a sign of unforgivable sloth.

ETA: I don't agree with this view, just giving my take on American Calvinism, which has shaped a lot of the popular ideas floating around in the U.S., and how I think it affects ideas about fat people.

I agree that there is a lot of ignorance out there, meaning a lack of knowledge. Someone I know was shocked to learn that all the fruit juice she was drinking was full of calories. To her, juice (100% juice without added sugar) was healthy and in her mind, that mean it wasn't something she needed to think about in terms of calories and weight. So yeah, she knew that cookies or ice cream could be fattening but thought that "healthy" food could be consumed in unlimited quantities without any problem.

This has certainly been an interesting discussion. I am sure that none of the comments made were meant to be offensive to anyone. I think we are all passionate about weight control or the lack of it because we know how central it is to our health and happiness. "Ignorance" needs to be replaced with nutritional education taught at home, in schools, and in our communities and modeled by parents and teachers. "Laziness" needs to be replaced by physical education being again a requirement in our schools and promoted in our homes and communities. We have to start demanding more for our kids and grandkids than quick stops at fast food joints as "dinner" and a night in front of the TV.
If we don't start trying to changes these things, it is said our next generation will not live as long as current generations.
I'm starting with my six-year old grandson, Brantley.

Even when some of us know the why it does not make the scars go away. For someone like me they are there forever and you just need to keep treating them with care. My care was delayed for years of self medicating and my new indulgence is food but I am in the process of learning what food is actually suppose to be for, substance for the body not to treat the scars.

I am so sorry that happened to you. Just reading about the incident has left a big lump in my throat. My mother, my husband and I've never faced a direct confrontation, just the overtly hostile stares and glares, and people griping in stage whispers to each other. Obviously they meant for us to overhear, but never had the gall to say something directly to us - or even make direct eyecontact. Of course, that's sometimes almost worse, because it feels like without the eye contact, we don't really have the right to respond or defend ourselves, either.

I'm normally a very confident person, who doesn't feel the need to apologize for my existence, but there's something about needing the cart that makes me feel "dirty." Even though I know I have a right to use the cart when I need it, it still feels like everyone is staring and judging (and it turns out, many of them are).

I don't know anyone who uses the carts because they want to. My mom has severe arthritis (caused by her obesity), and when walking became difficult, even with a cane, she had to use the cart. She suffered for years before becoming desperate enough to use the cart. At the time, I thought she was being silly, because there was no doubt that she needed the cart (even if it was only because she was fat).

My husband has to be in excrutiating pain to use the cart. At first, I thought he was being silly too.

I didn't understand until the first time I needed one myself, exactly how demeaning it can feel to use one (especially when you see the judgement and disgust of people's faces).

When I'm in a mild flare, I can lean on a grocery cart and use it as a walker, but if I need the cart, I'm more likely to just stay home. I'm normally pretty immune to fat-haters but using the cart, I feel so vulnerable. I feel like I need a note from my doctor, and should pass out copies to everyone I see.

I truly doubt that anyone uses those carts out of simple laziness - it's just too demeaning. That doesn't mean that simple fat and only fat can't be the reason a person needs the cart. At my highest weight, I avoided large stores like Walmart, not because I didn't want to walk, but because if I couldn't. I'd get about 1/3 of the way into the store and needed to sit down, or I was going to fall down (and if there's anything more embarsassing than riding a cart, it's having to have strangers haul your fat *** off the floor).

My face would turn bright fuschia and I'd have a histamine reaction or an asthma attack (sort of an allergic reaction to exertion). My face would be dripping sweat, and I'd feel like my heart was going to burst out of my chest (but of course, I deserved all of that, because I'm fat). Everyone knows fat people deserve to be punished. They don't deserve to be in public in the first place, so they really should just stay home, rather than take up the space that belongs to more deserving people (and of course, everyone else is more deserving).

Sometimes the harshest treatment was from fat people not using the cart (I guess they thought if they could haul their fat *** around the store, I could too, not realizing that most of the time, I do too. It's just that a few times a year, my lower back will feel too weak to support me, and I'll need to use the cart - or stay home).

People shouldn't have to stay home because they don't "deserve" to have assistance when they need it (even if it's their fault they need it). Getting out in the community, is often one of the first steps a super morbidly obese person takes on the road to reclaiming their health and dignity. Fat can make you agoraphobic and afraid to leave the house (which tends to contribute to greater obesity. Yes, it's possible to exercise and diet at home alone, but a support system and a life are more powerful motivators). The motorized carts may be the only thing that prevent a person from a life of hermitage and isolation - and further weight gain.