Just for the record, if anyone would like to go back and read my original post in this thread...I said I (and I even bolded "I" a few times) was lazy. I never said anyone else was...just me. I was LAZY and FAT. I would surf the net for hours and stuff my face with food. I knew 1000's of things needed done, and I could physically do them, if I only would... but I would rather surf the net and eat. Or watch TV and eat. I WAS LAZY. ;)

Oh and as far as the scooter thing, I'm very sorry I offended the scooter users, I forget that most of you guys don't understand what it's like to live in a very, very small community, where we all know everyone personally. The obese people I was referring to, who take the carts away from the little old ladies, (the ones that tick me off) are NOT handicapped, I see them all over town, at school functions, at ball games, at restaurants, at the flea markets, at the fair...they can walk just fine. They haven't had surgeries, or injuries they are...well...just too "tired" to walk the wal-mart I guess. I was not refering to obese people with disabilities, I realize they exist and I feel bad for them. I feel bad for all people with disabilities. I feel bad for obese people. Oh brother, what's the point. I'll tick someone off no matter what I say.

... on the surface, this still describes me, because most days I can get around just fine, especially if I pace myself. The more I exercise (when I can) the more overall stamina and strength I have on good days (and the less often I need assistance). But my while my good day maximum is increasing, my flare day maximum isn't, so there are still days when I do need assistance which may be as little as a cane or as much as a motorized scooter.. When I started on this weight loss journey, I couldn't walk very far even on my best day. Now I can walk about two miles, maybe even three at a steady, if not speedy pace. My good days have gotten a lot better, and I have alot more of them. My bad days, though are just as bad as they ever were. Sometimes they seem even worse, because they're so much more discrepancy between the good days and the bad ones.

Anyone who knows me, who doesn't understand fibromyalgia is going to think I am just lazy - at random moments. Most of the time, you're going to see me getting around just fine - and on the days I can't you're not going to see any indication that this is a bad day (or why it's a bad day). There's no sign over my head, my skin doesn't look sallow, I don't have hives or boils, I'm not going to have a scowl of pain on my face, I'm (probably) not going to have baggy circles under my eyes. I'm going to look no different than on the days I can walk three miles without getting winded.

All anyone is going to see is "that fat, lazy Colleen is using the Walmart scooter, when I just saw her walk miles without any problem yesterday."

I'm in a super flare right now. I spent the last six days burning the candle at both ends, because of a family wedding and out-of-state visitors. I used caffeine and my prescription medications in a way that would allow me to get the most out of those six days with family (knowing I'd pay for it later). I enjoyed myself immensely. Yesterday we went to a huge warehouse craft sale, where I was on my feet for hours in a hot, sticky warehouse digging through boxes of yarn (I nearly passed out from the heat, because I was a little too focused on the sale prices and wasn't paying attention to my pounding headache).

Pushing myself so hard for those 6 days, has taken it's toll. Today I feel like I've been hit by a truck, but you'd never guess it to look at me. I don't look any different than I did yesterday - at least if you don't look too closely (and even then, you'd have to know what to look for, to suspect I wasn't feeling my best. Only my husband has ever been able to tell when I'm flaring).

So today, we needed some groceries and household items. If we'd done the shopping at Walmart, I would have needed a scooter. Instead, we chose tiny stores. We paid more, and had to go to three different stores to get everything, but I was able to use a shopping cart instead of the scooter.

If we had gone to Walmart, anyone who had seen me at the warehouse sale yesterday, wouldn't understand why I wasn't able to walk just as far today. They'd assume I just randomly decided to be lazy.



I do understand the assumption. Before it applied to me, I would have probably made the same assumptions. I might have even been offended or disgusted. I don't expect people to understand, because sometimes even I still don't, but that doesn't change the reality. I can only choose from the options I have.



When people make comments about misuse of disabiled resources (from handicapped restrooms, to parking spaces, to the scooters), and I explain why I might appear to be the very people they're disgusted with - they always say "Oh, I don't mean you," but the people they point to as abusing the privelege don't behave any differently than I do, so they really do mean me (even if they don't realize it).

Many people assume that if you can stand for fifteen seconds (to reach something off the highest shelf) you're not disabled enough to need a scooter. Or that if you didn't need the scooter yesterday - or all of last week, then you can't possibly need it today.

Many people think they can tell the legitimate users from the abusers - but you can't tell by looking. You'd be surprised at how many people have "hidden" or intermittent disabilities. You have no way of recognizing the difference between a person being lazy and a person with an intermittant disability who just doesn't have the energy reserves to complete the remaining tasks without assistance. They may appear to walk just fine to and from the scooter, but you may have no idea how painful the walk is, or how much further they would have been able to walk without the scooter available. You don't know how much they already walked that day, or why they feel they need the scooter (maybe it's "legitimate" in your eyes, maybe it's not).



The thing is, you can't tell any of this by looking. The person hobbling with a cane or walker is easy to spot. The person leaning on their spouse, or on a grocery cart isn't. If your spine is straight and you're not wincing in pain - most folks are going to assume you're able-bodied. And if you're smiling or laughing - well you can't possibly need help if you can be happy about it (at least it seems so. I don't get nearly as many dirty looks in the scooter if I'm in a miserable mood).

I know I'm belaboring a point, but there are so many people who should use the scooters who don't, because they don't think they're deserving (or worse are afraid other people will think they're not deserving, and they may be right). These people never suffer the disapproving looks or the hostile words, because they don't leave their homes.

Although I secretly suspected it, I was shocked when (maybe fifteen years ago) a stanger told me that I shouldn't leave my home until I lose enough weight to be presentable. I owed society the favor of not having to look at me, I suppose. Most people aren't rude enough to say something like that to a very fat person, but I think a surprising number of people believe it.

I suppose I shouldn't care whether strangers think I have a legitimate disability or not. In fact, I'd rather most people not know. Being treated with pity, isn't any better than being treated with contempt. I suppose though, I just wish more people didn't feel the need to express contempt over a situation they can't know much about. When I see people glaring at me in contempt when I'm using a store's scooter - I wish they would come and ask me about it. I'd be happy to tell them about my health issues and why I think I need the scooter, and I'd be happy to listen to why they think I don't. But that's not what happens. They silently glare at me in contempt, and I silently absorb that contempt, feeling as if I'm pretty sure (98% sure, anyway) that I don't deserve it, but wondering if maybe I do - and either way it hurts just as much.

I just wish, instead of those silent glares, those folks would withhold judgement, actually asking "why are you using the scooter," and listen to my answer before assuming I'm lazy and greedily using services that should go to someone more deserving.

Lori Bell: My own comment was just a general one too...

I am WELL aquainted with this one too....:D

Same. :o

I know this as well. I really hesitate posting specific food ideas when people ask (and these ideas are so very helpful especially in the beginning. I would never have thought of Almond milk as one small example example) because of the salt police, the starvation mode brigade, or any number of other personal quasi religious adherences which seem like a healthy stance. kaplods I am not referring to scooter the situation at all. I love your posts and have been helped immensely by them.

I'm definitely guilty of judging people on the scooters. It's hard not to do sometimes. I'm in Wal-Mart with a hundred people of different ages and sizes, all walking on their feet, and here comes the one person on the scooter. It's something that draws attention. And yes, chances are they are disabled, but still...it makes you look, odd man out I guess.

My biggest issue with the people on the scooters is that in MY experience, the ones I'VE come into contact with tend to be kind of rude. I know this is a generalization, but I cannot tell you how many times I've nearly been mowed down by someone (disabled, fat, elderly, whatever) on one of those things! My grandmother is one of those people and I actually said something about it to her after a particularly mortifying trip to the grocery store. A customer could be standing directly in front of a display, reaching for an item, and she would literally zoom RIGHT in between that person and the display with nary an excuse me. And my grandmother is usually very mannerly! When I said something about it to her, she said, "Well I'm handicapped." Oh....well that makes sense. :p

Nah, I think you brought up a very good point. ;) It's been a fascinating discussion, and hopefully you didn't feel it was at your expense. You certainly aren't the only one to feel as you do, you're just the one brave enough to express it AND you have now clarified that you were speaking of people you knew anyway. So in my opinion...thanks for bringing it up! ;)

I have a story of people like those Lori knows...my in-laws!

The worst vacation of my life was to Disney World when our children were about 3 and 5. My in-laws DO have mild mobility issues. My FIL I actually understood because he has this weird foot thing. My MIL had pain in her legs from cholesterol meds she takes. I'd have been ok with scooter use if they'd just left it at that. However, MIL insisted they both use a scooter so we would be first in line at all the dag gone rides!! That ticked me off so much! I could see scooting them to the line where they were then perfectly capable of standing pain free, but no....they had to make huge spectacles of themselves going to the fronts of the line and getting handicapped service. DH, my children and I "got" to go with them and I felt guilt ridden on every single gosh darn ride.

Now THAT is a bloody shame. And both of them are obese, so I'm pretty sure everyone guessed at what they were doing.

So yes, there certainly are people out there who abuse the system. I've seen people on Wifeswap who behave poorly and incidents like those are probably what most people draw from. But having dealt with young adults with multiple handicaps and also with my mother who is uses a wheel chair and my best friend's sister who has MS...being in a wheel chair/scooter is no picnic. Even handicapped accessible places aren't.

With my handicap parking example, I worked in a small office building and knew everyone and everyone saw me walking around. I didn't happen to tell everyone how much pain I was in from my knee injury or even the fact that I had an injury. So someone visibly looking at me might think I was perfectly ok or they might've noticed a small limp despite not being able to walk pain free or fully extend my leg without excruciating pain. And it was someone who saw me every day that complained about me parking close to the building. So for me, I wouldn't assume someone I knew was pain free/free of issues even if I saw them every day.

This thread has gone several different directions but one thing I wanted to comment on was the idea that people are not knowledgeable about nutrition. What I find especially appalling is that even those who attempt to educate themselves about nutrition are given erroneous information from trusted sources.

For example, the US Department of Agriculture offers information about nutrition on this website: http://www.mypyramid.gov/index.html

One page actually includes this information:

"Make half your grains highly refined (or "processed"). Highly refined grains ease the digestion process by bypassing the pesky nutrient and fiber absorption step.

Individually packaged vegetable items from exotic places around the globe are cleaner, more convenient, and keep our friends in the petroleum and petrochemical industries chugging along.

While fruits may be eaten whole, buying canned, frozen or otherwise packaged fruit helps ensure the sterility of the fruit. Some fruits can be rather tart or tangy, so a smart way to make these more appealing is to select products with added sweeteners."


That's right folks. The government tells us that we should eat grains that have been highly refined...I mean, who needs fiber, right? And make sure you buy your vegetables from exotic places with lots of packaging, because, really, who cares about local farmers and the environment? And of course fruit is better if it's canned and processed, even more so if you add some more sugar to it. God never meant for us to eat fruit from trees, did He?

Good grief....no wonder our country is in a health crisis!

(And don't even get me started on the government mandated school lunch program...)

Rochestor - please send the link to the pages that have these quotes so I can alert the administrators at that website.

Rochester - those quotes are from a spoof site (mypyramid.org, which mocks the food industry ties to agribusiness). Mypyramid.gov is the actual site for the USDA.

Oops. :o I had copied the info but not the source, so when I went back to cite it I did so using the "real" government page.

But even that mistake proves my point. I found that information and thought it was from the government, and if I hadn't known better, I would have accepted that as reliable info.

Yeah, I think it's horribly irresponsible for the people who published it. Especially because, you know, the reason they did it was to expose that the USDA had bad diet advice.

LOL, Thanks, but it wouldn't offend me if you were. I'm not at all offended by the fact that people have negative opinions of some people on scooters (they may often be justified), or that people have different opinions than my own. I share my experiences and opinions, not because I'm angry or offended with anyone who disagrees, but because I think I have something important to say - usually something I think some people may not have considered.

I may be completely deluded. My opinions aren't necessarily of interest or value to anyone else, but I share them anyway - well, mostly because it's my nature. Sure, I'd like to think I'm doing some good, but I often suspect the real reason is more the love of the discussion and exploration of a topic. You can't fully understand a topic, unless you see it from several sides.

I've even played devil's advocate when I feel that a topic is too one-sided, because I think there's value in understanding issues from multiple vantage points. And then there are topics I'm rather passionate about, because of personal experiences (like the scooters and "invisible" disabilities).

I'm not arguing that scooter users are exempt of human failings, never rude or selfish, or even lazy (after all, they're as human as everyone else - and I've never met a human being who was never imperfect and that includes being rude, selfish and lazy). I've even met a few elderly ladies and gentlemen with walkers who were mean and nasty on occasion. Disability does not make a person perfect.

I know my mom was a terror on those scooters until she learned to steer them properly (she tended to get defensive when confronted - basically feeling everyone else needed to make sure they were staying out of her way, so I can see her using the "I'm handicapped" defense - but that's my mom's personality with everything else. Everyone else's mistakes tend to be malicious, while her's are innocent. Of course, she usually eventually realizes she's been unreasonable, but that comes later, after someone's feelings have been hurt).

My fear of steering those darned scooters is one of the main reasons I'm so fearful of using them (aside from the ridicule and derision). I know I could hurt someone with my inept driving - and I don't need them regularly enough to develop good driving skills, so I have to be rather desperate to consider them (or the store is deserted. We sometimes shop the Walmart in the wee hours on a weekday, just so the store will be deserted when we shop)...


My main point in all of this, hasn't been that everyone on a scooter deserves to be there, but rather that appearances can be extremely deceiving. Disabilities don't always show, and they're not always static. They can not only be invisible, they can be intermittent - so a person who seems, and maybe is "fine" at one point in time, might not be in another.

You read of it in RA (rheumatoid arthritis) literature alot (because there's a lot of overlap in symptoms of both fibro and the autoimmune issues I have, I've read alot about RA). Children with RA often have intermittent flares and remissions - which can also give the appearance of "malingering" (you were fine yesterday, and now you're too in too much pain to go to school?)

Often diagnosis is delayed, because of the difficulty parents, teachers, and even doctors can have recognizing invisible and intermittant disabilities. It's not the norm, so it often gets misconstrued as malingering or psychosomatic illness. Usually by the time the person gets anyone to believe them, they've suffered unnecessarily for quite a long time (and in the case of progressive diseases, they may have lost valuable treatment opportunities).

I'm really not trying to lecture, just to educate (but passion can blur the latter into the former).