just an excuse
 

I really like eating, ALOT, and I seldom feel satisfied after eating. I feel full, or even bloated, but seldom satisfied.
I don't know why this is.
I did not grow up in poverty, I never really went hungry.
I was in fact able to overeat for years before I started to put on weight.
I still have not learned to eat appropriately.
(hence my ongoing problems and lack of recent weight loss)
I am a caregiver, (both of family and as a profession) but I have never felt that is the "reason" I got fat.
I still do not enjoy exercise/activity.
I enjoy the effects, but seldom enjoy the "process"
If being on 3FC burned calories, I could get thin fast tho! (LOL):D

It seems like if you do something you enjoy, you should feel satisfied by doing it. That makes sense, doesn't it? I like to read. After I've spent some time with a good book, I feel satisfied. Sooooo, if you like to eat but you don't feel satisfied (as opposed to full), wouldn't it make sense that something other than the actual act of eating is what you're seeking? A sense of reward or you time or immediate gratification or SOMEthing, YOURthing.

I was thinking about it, and it seems to me that food can be a quick and cheap way to feel better. A treat that can be had for a couple of bucks or less. I've been trying to think of anything that can compare, both in price and in quick response. I can't.

Sex :devil:

Protected. :chin:

Jay

It can make you feel better - but only temporarily, if it's the "wrong" foods. The "wrong" foods come with a big price tag - side affects, some longer then others - weight gain, headaches, sugar levels all wacky, guilt, brings on cravings, etc... That's why it's essential to find foods that do double duty. You're satisfied while eating them, and long after you're done chewing - no unpleasant side affects.

Eating can be used to self-medicate. There's some evidence that cravings and binges most often include foods that affect neurotransmitter production or utilization. Food can be a quick "fix."

Short-term rewards become habits easily BECAUSE they work in the short term. Eating, shopping, gambling, drinking, sex, drugs.... they all can be habit-forming, and can become destructive.

Food is probably the most commonly abused substance in North America, because it's socially acceptable (sometimes socially mandated), affordable, available and entirely legal.

I think acknowledging the "useful" side of eating (or any "addictive" behavior) is key to addressing the problem. I think when people say "I don't understand why I _____ even though it's bad for me," makes people feel out of control, weak, and helpless. Not knowing what you get out of a behavior makes it that much easier, I think, to keep making the same mistakes over and over again.

If you know that you eat (or for sake of argument any other self-destructive behavior) when stressed, then you can make plans to "do somethine else" at the first signs of stress. Having the alternative plan in place makes it more likely that you'll use it.

I think that's where the distinction between making excuses and recognizing contributing factors/triggers is made. If you aren't using the knowledge to make and use alternative plans, then it becomes an excuse for why you didn't. The information doesn't change, just an individual's use of it.

Quote:

Eating can be used to self-medicate. There's some evidence that cravings and binges most often include foods that affect neurotransmitter production or utilization. Food can be a quick "fix."

I saw a program on I think the Discovery Channel about 2 years ago, where this was very true. They hooked up drug addicts and gave them their drug of choice to mark brain activity and did the same thing to people who binged. The bingers, of course, got to pick their favorite, most satisfying food. The brain activity was the same, like a food-high. The people who binged were then given different foods and the brain scans did not detect the same level of activity.

It was very fascinating. And no wonder my favorite restaurant is Olive Garden. Just their slogan alone makes me feel good and want to go there on EVERY birthday for the last 3 years. "When you are here, you are family". I have ordered the Tour of Italy and ate every single bite, several of the bread sticks and the salad and even ordered a dessert and coffee. Most other restaurants, I am taking home to go boxes. I'm not sure, but I think this could technically be classified as a binge. Because yes, I certainly LOVE pasta and bread and all, but there is no way in HE double hockey sticks that I could eat that much at home. I think it was the "family feeling" that it had somehow emblazoned on my brain. Which is weird because binges often occur under more negative situations. The only other times I have been known to go so extreme is Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner. I eat until I am absolutely sick.

Oh dear, not the Tour of Italy! Did you happen to see the recent news about overly salty meals from the Center for Science in the Public Interest? http://www.cspinet.org/new/200905111.html I'm not sure what I think of them as an organization, but their announcements do garner attention.

"Olive Garden Tour of Italy (lasagna) with a Breadstick, Garden Fresh Salad with House Dressing, and a Coca-Cola: 6,176 mg of sodium"

Oh my goodness, A breadstick, meaning one. I probably ate at least 3! I did skip the coke and opted for sweet tea, as if that helped at all. I am glad you spared me the calorie content, LOL. I will be doing "homemade" birthdays from now on, for sure. I hope to have lost most of my weight by my birthday in September and there is no way I will mess that up by going to that place again.

It is very eye-opening once you start paying attention to what you are putting in your mouth. I am learning day by day that if it didn't come from the ground, it's more than likely no good for you. Even then, I am concerned with pesticides and such, which is why I started a little mini-garden a few months back. It is actually relaxing and my one tomato I have gotten so far was the best tasting tomato I ever had.

Maybe it isn't food you are after.

Possible, but there are other possible explanations as well.

I've felt insanely hungry for as long as I can remember (I was underweight at 4 and obese by kindergarten. Even after eating until uncomfortable, I would be hungry for more.

I think trying to figure myself out was a large motivator in choosing psychology as a career field. Given my field of study (bachelor's and master's degrees in behavioral and developmental psych, respectively), I was more than ready to blame behavioral and/or mental/emotional issues. But counseling never helped.

What finally did was purely physiological.

1. address sleep apnea - resulted in 20 lb loss, with no effort - I wasn't dieting

2. address hormonal issues - on the right birth control, I don't get irrationally hungry (and such severe mood swings that eating felt like the least of my problems).

3. reducing carbohydrates - I'm insulin resistant (and may have been from childhood, given some symptoms) and two doctors recommended trying a lower (but not "too" low) carb diet. On a very low carb diet, I have no hunger at all (and can even forget to eat - a few times for as much as 12 hours). On a high carb diet (even if they're "good" whole-grain or starchy vegetable carbs), I tend to overeat because of increased hunger.

I'm not saying that any of these are your issues, but I think that mental/emotional issues are assumed more frequently as is the case (I've had people, even professionals in the psych field tell me that to be as obese as I was, PROVED a severe mental health issue).

When I stopped crash dieting, I stopped binging, without consciously trying to. It was my first inkling that I had physiological issues, not severe psychological ones.

1. The effectiveness of a low-carb diet is not an indication of a physiological illness.
2. Insulin resistance is a product of obesity/overconsumption of highly processed, nutrient deficient carbohydrate heavy meals, not a cause.
http://www.carbs-information.com/ins...sity-carbs.htm
Other causes of insulin resistance include pregnancy, infection, and steriod use. If you control the weight and improve the diet, the insulin resistance resolves. The underlying issue, however, is that insulin resistance is NOT likely to be a significant cause of obesity.
3. A sudden jump in weight in a short period of time does not automatically mean that there are unknown, undiagnosed physiological factors at work. For very young children, perhaps there is a difficulty in adjusting from a protected home life to interacting with kids at a school. Perhaps one's parents treat emotional issues with food. Perhaps social interaction is painful for the child. Perhaps sibliing rivalry rears its ugly head at this time, and food is there and available. For teens, perhaps there is social pressure to eat out with friends, or self-esteem issues. Perhaps there is undiagnosed depression or eating disorders at work.

I really do believe that there are far fewer physiological factors at work than there are psychological issues. In fact, to be honest, unless you have a firm diagnosis of, say pituitary adenoma, or insulin-dependent diabetes, or Cushings Syndrome, I firmly believe that pyschological issues are of primary importance.

This is one of the dangers of removing the "causes" of obesity from a sense of personal control to one of a third person cause, such as genetics or physiology. Unless you own the situation, you won't be able to solve it especially with respect to psychological issues, because these issues need therapy at the very minimum. And it is so EASY to go on an endless journey of trying to figure out the physiological issues which often don't exist, when what is really needed is plain old action. If one chooses. And if one doesn't, then one deserves respect and support and love like everyone else, without judgement.

JMHO

Kira

Didn't say it was - only that diet was a physiological factor in my hunger. It's purely practical, I find that eating lower carb or lower GI makes hunger disappear (which certainly comes in handy, while dieting for weight loss). Logically, if my eating were due to psychological factors, this seems very unlikely, since eating fewer carbs could not possibly resolve any emotional, psychological, or behavioral issues.

In principle, I'm against eliminating food groups, so putting the practical knowledge into practice is tricky. On a very low carb diet, I have no appetite or hunger (in fact, I can easily "forget to eat" for hours - something I can't say I ever experienced at any time except when eating very low carb). However, light headedness and headaches are also more likely if I eat too few carbs, especially if trying to include exercise. Finding a healthy balance that controls hunger, yet provides sufficient fuel for exercise is a challenge.

My doctors recommended lower carb, because of the research finding (my gp especially makes no recommendations unless there is peer-reviewed support for it in the medical literature) that lower carb seems to be somewhat more effective for weight loss in insulin resistant clients. I thought it was a nutty idea (because of decades of evidence and professional opinions arguing that low carb diets are unhealthy), but when I received a second opinion from the doctor heading the local hospital weight loss clinic, I though it was worth a try.


I never said that insulin resistance caused obesity (or at least most obesity, as there is growing evidence that IR can be a factor in weight gain. It's quite possible for thin people to gain weight after they develop IR). Insulin resistance is likely caused by other factors in addition to those you mentioned - including crash dieting, autoimmune disease, genetics...

Personally, I don't believe I've been insulin resistant nearly as long as I've been obese - however I believe that I've always had a tendency toward not being able to control consumption of simple and small chain carbohydrates. If my problems were psychological, I don't see how reducing carbs would help.

I believed that too - for more than 35 years. I spent most of my life trying to address the pschological issues, with very limited success. It wasn't until I addressed physiological factors that I was able to succeed long-term (without white-knuckle effort). I find it very unlikely that I coincidentally resolved my psychological issues, the instant I changed my birth control and carb-content (oh, and that they coincidentally reappear when I choose to go off the bc or eat high carb).


I've "owned" the situation for all of my life - at 5 years old I knew it was "all my fault" for being overweight. I've even been in therapy (which did very little to help me succeed).

Personally, I've found it SO EASY to go on an endless journey of trying to figure out the PSYCHOLOGICAL issues which often didn't exist. Plain old action worked, but required superhuman effort, so that if I wanted anything else in my life, I didn't have the effort to put in. So I had the fun choice of weight loss or a life (and sometimes I chose a life).

It took me a long time to acknowledge that my problems were more physiological than psychological. To some degree, I still constantly test my "theory" regarging carbohydrates - convincing myself that I can have sweets and other trigger foods, so long as I budget in my calorie/exchange alottment for them. Yet, time and time again, when I do - that insanely intense, difficult to control hunger returns. Sometimes by force of will, I do succeed in avoiding temptation - but that encourages me to repeat the experiment and mostly ends in out-of-control eating.

Ironcially (well, actually completely logically, if I postulate that perhaps my problems were more physiological than psychological), finding the factors "outside myself" gave me more control, helped me develop tools for action that were effective (I started getting somewhere, not just spinning my wheels.).

For me, the results prove the theory (especially since I keep repeating the experiments to test the theory, and continue to replicate my results).

My belief is that insulin resistance is a result of overeating refined carbohydrates, namely sugar, HFCS, etc.

Here's one article that briefly explains the connection:

http://www.womentowomen.com/insulinr...e/default.aspx

Jay

I fall more on Kaplods side of this argument, based on my experience with carbs. Is my reaction physical or mental? I would say it's physical.

If I look at a plate of cookies, I usually get an "eh cookies" mental reaction, some idle "cookies taste good" thoughts, but nothing I can't handle (normally). If I EAT a cookie, my mouth floods with saliva and I have a near overwhelming urge to stuff cookies into my mouth, as quickly as possible without even finishing the first cookie.

One Oreo? One Vanilla Wafer? I can't imagine stopping at one. I can remember so many times, I would take out two cookies, twisty up the bag, eat the cookies, go back to the box, repeat, until the box was empty. My intentions towards moderate cookie eating were always good, but I could rarely follow through.

Only certain foods trigger this response - chips, crackers, pretzels, baked goods, cold breakfast cereal.

So, I do "take charge" of myself by limiting my consumption of these items. If I eat them, even in moderation, I have a very very very hard time stopping. Since the foods don't taste good enough to justify the feelings of regret/guilt/remorse/shame caused by eating them in "binge" quantities, I try not to eat them at all.

Based on nothing but my own experiences (since I'm not a doctor or a nutritionist) something is going on with me and empty carbs and it's not just in my head.

When my diet was mostly muffins for breakfast, pizza for lunch and pasta with french bread for dinner, I thought I had issues with food. I was hungry, restless, munchy. Now that I eat mostly whole foods with very little empty carbs, I can maintain nearly effortlessly. There are of course, the occasional bobble and offplan meal, but my current diet of 0 fast food and practically no junk would be AMAZING to the me of 5 years ago, that person wouldn't believe I could eat like this and be happy.

I went from a person with serious food issues, to a normal person (a normal, lunch packing, food journaling, calorie estimating - but hopefully you know what I mean, heh). Sure, I built a lot of healthy habits, but I am the SAME PERSON - I know that I'm one Oreo away from a sleeve of Oreos at any moment. My body's reaction to carbs is the same as it has ever been, I just recognize it now and use strategies/tactics to manage those foods.

I know that if I reverted back to my old eating habits, my old issues would re-emerge.

So which is it for me? Was I fat because of physiological or psychological reasons? I would say - I had habits of afternoon snacking due to being a latchkey kid (psychological) but I also had weird reactions to some foods - binging, overeating (physiological). Understanding how my body reacted to certain foods and coming up with tactics for afternoon eating gave me what I needed to lose weight. If I hadn't noticed (almost by accident) how the reduction in certain foods made me more successful, I might have had a bumpier maintenance if I had decided to reintroduce my "old favorites".

Sorry this was so random and stream of consciousness, was going back and forth with work stuff :)