OH how I hate to point this out, but I have to!
The average life expectancy in Azerbaijan is 62.5 years, lower than the world average of 67.2 years. They rank 124th in the world. A person's reported lifespan and their actual lifespan is different. Without actual documentation, you really don't know IF someone is 102 years old. They may SAY so, and they might have others who VOUCH for it, but seriously...age reported often is a result of cultural influences, too, but that's another matter...
This is why you never see recognition of "the world's oldest person" without any documentation. Period. And life expectancy rates have alot to do with hygiene standards, access to medical facilities, and the quality of medical intervention available.
So, I PERSONALLY think that Azerbaijans live to 100+ because of diet is absolutely touted to sell a diet book--I don't think that they do live that long, at least, not enough of them live that long to form the basis of a diet program.
JMHO
Maya

Well actually sue, the China study wasn't the adoption of western diet that increases heart disease, cancer, etc, it was actually mainly on the increase of meat in the diet. Richer Chinese tend to get heart disease and cancer more often but they also tend to eat more meat. Could it be because they are replacing vegetables with meat? Could be. Poorer chinese tend to eat lots of carbs and little meat but cancer and heart disease are very rare. This was linked to studies done on animals were they were exposed to carcinogens then fed various levels of animal protein and showed a direct increase in the amount of cancer with the amount of animal protein given. Also, studies were done given the same amount of plant protein as animal protein and the increase in cancer didn't occur in the animals exposed to increased plant based protein, only animal based protein.

So although the China study does mention some things with adoption of western diet, the main focus was why do some native chinese people get cancer, heart disease, etc and why do others not. From a dietary standpoint, it seems like there is some correlation between the increase in animal protein and various diseases. This was a long term study done at a time when western foods in China were unheard of or possibly very rare.

Thanx for that info Nelie. Very interesting. I like what Suzanne said in the vegetarian forum about the mediterasian diet. Red meat once a month, chicken a few times a month, fish a few times a week, lots of vegetables and some fruit, choosing healthier fats, etc.

Maya:

I am not sure. I do know that eating food with other foods helps. Like when the mediterasian people came on here for questions and I asked why all the white rice doesn't seem to affect them. They said:

I agree that diet is important. My only concern is that
1. Azerbaijanis in general do NOT live to +100 years old and
2. This should not form the basis of a dietary plan.
As for the studies of Chinese diet, etc., here is an interesting story I learned at University.
For YEARS, the French reported very, very low rates of heart disease and few deaths from heart attacks despite their consumption of red wine, cheese, and croissants. Why was this? Studies were done, and diet books proliferated -- "Eat like the French", "A Diet of a French Woman", and so on.
Something about the French diet resulted in low rates of heart disease. Was it the quantities of food? Was it the variety? Did red wine have an impact and "neutralize" the effects of the cheese? The debate rages on.
What was NOT mentioned was this:
At that time, French insurance laws stated that death from Heart Disease was considered a self-inflicted death. As a result, life insurance policies would be VOIDED if a patient died from heart disease.
Knowing this, doctors would NOT state that heart disease was the cause of death for a patient. If they DID, then the family would not be able to collect life insurance.
Result: studies of death rates showed that there were FEW incidences of heart disease and related deaths in France. Laws have changed now, and the reported incidence of heart disease and deaths as a result have skyrocketed. The key word is "REPORTED". It was always there. It just wasn't reported.
SO, all this is to say that studies that are conducted often do not take the local cultural issues to heart, and that to say that, for example Azerbaijanis live to 100+ because they eat grains, or Chinese live to 100+ because they eat soy is simplistic.
JMHO
Maya

Very interesting discussion this has become (though I fear our original poster is not getting the answers she's looking for! )

When I read this thread, many of the issues seem linked to causality. We say this diet LEADS TO this, or INCREASE that, or CAUSES such and such. All of these are causal claims.

But the problem is that it's nearly impossible to determine causality without experimental research -- research that holds all other variables constant except for the ones of interest. In the area of nutrition, it is nearly impossible to do that kind of research. How do you vary diet only and keep everything else (including genetics and other lifestyle and cultural factors) the same in cross-cultural research? I think you can't.

So, if Azerbajanis or the French or the Japanese or Italians live longer or have less heart disease, we can see correlations to the type of diet, but we can't determine that the diet CAUSED the longevity (provided it's true to begin with) because we haven't been able to isolate the factors involved with real experimental research.

There has been research on various aspects of nutrition, and some of it is experimental and some of that does seem to indicate that eating certain foods causes better health (e.g., lower incidence of heart disease). But even that research is a long way from showing how diet in and of itself causes these effects.

In addition, as many people are pointing out, there may be genetic factors that haven't yet been taken into account. Maybe the cause of a longer life, or lower heart disease, among certain groups is an interaction between their diet AND their genetics. In other words, maybe a certain diet works best for certain people, and another diet works well for others. Some preliminary research on diets that try to reduce insulin responses seems to suggest that it is helpful for some people but not others.

Of course, this becomes highly problematic for those of us trying to change our diets and become healthier -- what are we supposed to do if the research hasn't fully answered our questions?

Well, we do the best we can. We read and make choices that seem to work with our lifestyles, and we check with our doctors to make sure our numbers look okay. But we also need to recognize that the answers aren't going to be immediately apparent. I can feel healthy and have great numbers, but I don't know for sure how things will look 30 years down the road. And if I just feel good, how do I know it's because of my diet alone? What about the additional exercise? And what about issues like the "placebo effect"?

I guess this is all a long-winded way of saying that the answers we desperately seek may not be out there yet, and probably won't be in our lifetimes. We do the best we can. But at the same time, we have to be careful not to overstate our own cases, or to presume that we know more than we do...

(quietly gets off soapbox...)

Absolutely right! And the BEST diet is the one that works for you!
This has been/is an awesome thread!!!!
Maya

I totally agree Heather. I think we can take information and use it how we choose to. There is no perfect answer. It is like when studies come out saying "soy is good for you" but then everything starts to contain soy. Green tea is good for you, so then companies market green tea pills. Hoodia is an awesome example of that in that it does suppress appetite in its natural form but harnessing that appetite suppression capability in a product has been impossible for manufacturers that have tried.

For me, I figure I've chosen the way I will eat and if I'm healthy and live a long life, then maybe my diet contributed to that but who knows? If I die of some disease at a fairly young age, could it be my diet? Who knows. I just do the best that I can and follow what I think is right for me and works.

And lest we lose sight of the point... or maybe we already did!

Weight loss! Yes, it's best to do that in a healthy way--but one chick's healthy way isn't necessarily someone else's. I found that I couldn't manage to stay with a program that had me cooking a lot, or a program that had me searching out special foods, or eating foods that I didn't like. So Altari, if you're still with us... make some lists! Things you like, things you don't like, what your schedule allows, and so forth. Look for a program that will fit well with your lists, because to be successful, it has to be something you can stay with. Let us know what you decide!

Jay

I think the fact they found it self inflicted is interesting. (granted these are insurance companies...I personally can't stand them) I read a book a while back called "Fat Land" some of you may remember it. In the book it purposes that one reason the French don't seem to gain weight it that the concept of restraint is built into there society. The book stated that when the clothes manufactures wanted to change clothes sizes to be more cloth for the same size on the label the French government stopped them. It's a whole lifestyle thing, I think.

Interesting...

Heather,

Very very well said.

I think we should greet any research / study results, no matter who it comes from, with a very healthy dose of scepticism - personally, unless I know a fair bit about the conditions of a study I'm never again going to say, "oh I just saw there was a study on such and such". Studying just about anything diet & nutrition related is clearly very very difficult, there are just so many variables.

What we DO know is that there are significant health benefits associated with weight loss (if we're overweight!). So, figure out a way to eat that makes you feel good, gives you energy and doesn't leave you feeling hungry and depressed and obssessed with food, and then get on with life!

cheerio,
Sue

How can squirrels gain weight with no extra food? Did they give an explanation?

I don't remember the details about how the ground squirrels do it, but presumably they are metabolizing their calories in a different way. Makes sense, many of us are pretty familiar with people who can eat more than we do and stay skinny, and also people who eat less and stay not-so-skinny - metabolisms vary. Given that the critters need to add fat for hibernation, I guess they've evolved some kind of failsafe mechanism so that if there isn't an optimal amount of food in a particular year they can make the absolute most of the food they do get, or they'd all die in a lean food year.

cheers,
Sue