I saw that - it was quite a while back (altho it may have been a repeat episode or possibly an update...)

There were two sides presented. From the employers' side & the employee's side. 9 times out of 10 the "thinner" person was hired, even tho the resume's showed the candidates had very similar backgrounds, education, and experience.

Part of the problem is the way society as a whole views those of us who are overweight. It's a standard issue "If they can't even take care of themselves, then how are they going to take care of 'x'?" Never mind that one's job usually DOES NOT have anything to do with one's weight, height, etc. But sometimes it does. And I'm not talking about film/TV stuff. For instance, Flight Attendants... are not supposed to be over a certain amount of weight - it has to do with what the airplane can carry, how easy it is to move about in small spaces, etc. Heck, even very overweight PASSENGERS get charged more for a plane ticket than their regular or underweight counterparts - because they take up "more room." Hateful? Not really - that's just the tip of the iceberg.

What about insurance? An overweight person IS more in danger of diabetes, heart disease, joint problems, etc. Meaning they would normally use more of their insurance benefits than a healthy, atheletic counterpart. Meaning they would probably use more sick days. Meaning they cost the company "more money."

Some jobs require thinness for the actual physical parts of the job. A friend of mine was "let-go" after one month on a particular job because his weight actually prevented him from crawling in & out of the small spaces that was required of the job. And think about it... would you want a fat doctor to explain to you about losing weight? Would you want a fat trainer to tell you how important it is to run the treadmill for 45 minutes? Would you want a fat chef teaching you to cook low-fat foods? I wouldn't. I'd be tempted to say "Well, WTH do YOU know about it?" because if the doctor, or the trainer. or the chef was fat... I'd think "You certainly aren't much of a professional in this manner, are ya?"

Is it fair? Well, certainly not to those of us that are overweight. But then again - especially in America! - society frowns on all that is not "perfect." Be it fat, poor, dumb, etc. Sad, but true. But then again, I don't enjoy being overweight. Not from any viewpoint - not physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, fashion-wise, looks-wise, career-wise, etc. That's why I'm here, and why I'm trying. Because I DON'T LIKE BEING FAT.

I find it a little disturbing that you categorize the opposite of overweight as healthy & athletic. They are two different issues. You can be thin and still be extremely unathletic and unhealthy. A growing body of research suggests that physical activity level is a more accurate predictor of health problems and early mortality than weight.

IMHO, our society needs to just get over its obsession with body weight issues. If all the fat critics were really concerned about the health aspects, they would be castigating the people who don't exercise rather than the people who are overweight.

I agree Beach Patrol. I am in a field where fitness, at least in some rudimentary level, is key. I hate having to wait for the people who are lagging behind. It means more time to do something, it means losing money since we can't get the contract done as quickly, it means a more rushed lunch.

I once had to interview a person who was way more than 250 pounds and was shorter than I am. I told the person that there was at least a physical requirement for the job of field tech. You will have to crawl on your belly through poison ivy at 100 degrees to get to the field where you have to run through as fast as you can. You will have to run through these fields with shovels and screens and water and everything you might need in a day strapped to your back. You are expected to be able to keep up after your first week.

I was pretty relieved when I interviewed a more qualified candidate (had more field experience). We did call that person back but they said that they got another job. Great for them, field tech jobs are crappy!

Just thinking about how fat I was doing all of that work makes me stay away from thinking about fast food. *shakes fist at whopper*

I find some of the generalizations on this thread a little icky. There are two issues being discussed: size and fitness. One doesn't mean the other. Some of you consider yourselves fat at 173, which is like 8 pounds heavier than I am! At this weight, people never call me fat. People are never surprised by what I can do and I'm only 5'2 and not at all skinny.

since it's really about how people perceive you, let's take numbers and (like how do you that person was 250? Most people guess my weight about 30lbs lighter than I currently am and it's always been that way.) all that out. Even at my heaviest, I wasn't lagging behind anyone. I didn't have any health concerns and honestly, I was just sick of being treated badly because I wasn't skinny. It was 90% vanity for me.

What's strange to me is most of the people with the most problematic attitudes about body and size have often been former fatties. On one hand I see people here boo hooing about others considering them fat and making assumptions about their livestyles on different threads and then coming here and doing the same thing.

If I've learned anything from my journey is you dno't what people are doing to and with their bodies and what someone weighs/is shaped like, is barely enough information to make any kind of intelligent decision about their health.

The posts we're putting up really show that it's not easy to even define what overweight, overfat, healthy, athletic, etc., mean! There is not a simple equation that says, heavy=unhealthy, thin=healthy. I think most of us know that if we think about it.

Take your average pro football lineman. Those men have to be able to meet certain fitness requirements, or they don't play! They are strong and physically fit, and many of them are "overweight" as well. Or, how about shot put, discus, weight lifters? They are "overweight" but fit! Lots of muscle mass.

I used to be pretty physically fit while still being overweight. I was really healthy--good blood pressure, good muscle tone, and so on. But I have to say, it was really difficult for me to keep physically fit while overweight. It's not easy to jog around a track while carrying many pounds. My joints complained. My feet complained. My lower back complained.

In my case, and I am speaking only for me, I felt that being heavy WAS a problem--separate from the health issue. "Heavy" for me was close to 200 pounds at 5ft 3in. That put me in the obese range for BMI. I knew things were not going to get better unless I lost weight.

As far as insurance--I may have said earlier that I already pay more for insurance because of my "build." If you have an individual plan, you will pay more if you're overweight. The question comes into play with group plans, where a company pays the same for every employee.

And now, putting my mod hat on, please let's not get into a discussion of who is "really" overweight, obese, and so on. This isn't a contest. One person's perception of themselves as "fat" may seem odd to someone else, especially if that person's start weight is the other person's goal weight! But that's just life--we are all different.

Jay

well said jay.

OK, here is a flipside viewpoint

I think I did better in my career as an overweight woman than I would have now if I was entering the workplace at this weight. (although I think at some point between obese and morbidly obese it would have flipped back)

I was an engineer in an extremely male dominated field. Even overweight, I had a hard time being taken seriously. I even was introduced in a meeting by a VP as "our pretty engineer". Yeah. THAT's what I want to be thought of.

As I am now a smoking hot MILF ;), I think I would have a much harder time being taken seriously.

But I was also an actress, and yes, I lost jobs because of my build and also had doubts about my fitness to hold a role that discussed "dynamite legs" in the dialogue.

Careers are one of the biggest reasons I want to lose weight. I still have 2 1/2 more years in college, but at this weight, I am risking not being accepted for the Peace Corps. Even though I am big, I have much more stamina than many people half of my weight, but the Peace Corps doesn't know that. Also, I'm studying abroad next year for the full year and at least one of the programs I'm doing (Mexico in the fall) will be very physical: canvassing towns for an political-anthropological thesis paper, trips into the mountains, investigating coffee plantations, etc. Spring semester, if I don't wimp out and do an academic program in England, I'll be in either Bolivia, Tunisia, Morocco, Kenya, or Namibia and all will be at varying level of physicalness.

As for a career, no way would I get a State Department job working in some obscure 3rd world locale at this weight. To them, it's a liability. Not to mention I'm already at a disadvantage by being a female in a relatively male dominated industry.

There are jobs where physical fitness is a pre-requisite to employment. Police officers, military members, fire fighters, fitness instructors (although not a prerequisite at a 30-minute wonder gym!), for example. I have no issue with this. I would hate to be in a burning building and be trapped because an unfit firefighter can't make it up the ladder. And, after seeing the physical training tests that these type of people go through, there sure as heck aren't many 400-lb physically fit people out there. I don't personally think you can be physically fit at a high BMI. You can be physically ACTIVE, but not meet a fitness standard. There are thin people who can't do that either, but they fail those fitness standard tests, too...
There ARE jobs where your physical appearance becomes a factor -- it is kind of hard as an actress to play the role of a victim of starvation when she weighs 330 lbs (which is why Tom Hanks lost 60lbs for his role in Castaway -- hard to portray a starving man without looking the part...)
And there are other jobs where weight and credibility often, whether rightly or wrongly, goes hand-in-hand. I've seen obese nutritionists at the hospital counselling others about how to change their bad eating habits, for example, without much success. And I've seen obese circuit trainers describing how effective their program is at the local 30-minute wonder gym. Which makes me wonder if it really does work.
But, for the majority of jobs, weight shouldn't be an issue. I think it becomes an issue because there are people who associate higher BMIs with negative personality traits, which is totally unfair. For some employers, unfortunately, appearance is everything, to the detriment of ability...

Let me tell you a little story. I am currently unemployed because I moved back to my hometown to help take care of my parents. My husband is working but unable to work at a pay level that will keep us above the water. So, I go in to the job center and fill out an application and go to submit my resume for a local position in a medical office. WITHOUT seeing my resume or my application, the head of the office looks at me and says, "Well you're not qualified for the job." I submitted it anyway.

That same day, I got a call back from the office. I got an interview for the next day, and all was good. My skills are awesome. I have four years' experience at the same hospital, and have worked in other aspects of the same career. The guy who called said that I was their first interview, and he was highly impressed by my resume. I go in with high hopes, because I really need this job. The interview went well, aside from the fact that the "silent" partner kept staring at me with this look of disgust, and he didn't even bother to pretend otherwise. I knew at that point I wouldn't be hired. I called to check up on said job a week later and was told that I was in the top three, because my skills and experience were excellent and I had excellent references. Three days later, they call and say they offered the position to someone with more experience. A friend of mine who temps there was there the day the one they hired started. She's right out of high school with absolutely no experience in the medical field, or as an office assistant in general.

So, does my appearance affect my career? Yes, unfortunately it does. I was shielded by my job before, because they knew I was skilled and they knew I was a hard worker. I had no problems being promoted because I was already in the door. Right now? I have very limited opportunities because I can't even get my foot in the door. It's not right, and it really stings, but there's not a whole lot I can do about it, other than continue to fight my health issues.

Brandnewme, I am so sorry for your predicament. :( It's just so maddening. But please don't lose hope!

I want to get back to freethetoys' original question for a moment.

I think we can all agree that for jobs where fitness isn't an issue, weight shouldn't be. But reality is what it is, and in TV/film, appearance is a big issue.

toys, if you want to be an actor, you are probably going to have to drop your weight. You've already lost a lot! But you can get a lot more callbacks at a lower weight. I'm not saying you have to be 100 pounds, though.

If you're happy going into the production end, then that's great, too. But I hope you don't limit yourself because of weight--you CAN lose more weight.

I've done a few community theater plays--back when I was heavier than now--and I was chosen for parts that normally a thinner woman would play, e.g., Ethyl Thayer in On Golden Pond. This was because no one else tried out who was thinner and also good enough for the role. But the actors didn't get paid. (By the way, this was a three-week run, and it was pretty grueling since I also work full time.)

Sometimes people have to adjust themselves to the career, instead of the career to themselves. It sounds wrong, but in some fields, that's how it is.

Jay

On the flip side, my sister who is significantly overweight (by around 125lbs or so) has 2 university degrees and an HR certificate, and is currently the registrar of the second largest college in her state...and THAT is a high-profile job. So who really knows! I think it depends on the institution and the person doing the hiring (if physical fitness isn't an issue). As for acting and all, more power to those who break the mold. It is a shame that Hollywood, while claiming to celebrate diversity, rewards only the super-thin. One interesting thing is that if you watch ANY BBC television program, it seems to be peopled with NORMAL, AVERAGE individuals who play the parts of normal, average people. i.e. Coronation Street vs The Young and the Restless...

"And now, putting my mod hat on, please let's not get into a discussion of who is "really" overweight, obese, and so on. This isn't a contest. One person's perception of themselves as "fat" may seem odd to someone else, especially if that person's start weight is the other person's goal weight! But that's just life--we are all different."

I agree it's not a contest, but it did seem like many responses equated thinness=health, and that seems a little bizarre. We have so many examples right on this board of people who are larger than "normal" who are fit (and also attempting to lose more weight). And so I do find it a little disheartening that people, even on a board where there's so much evidence to the contrary, would make an assumption about health based on size.

That said, I guess I accept that what I thought about my body at specific weights isn't necessarily the truth of all bodies at that weight. So for me it's not about contests, but rather being sensitive towards how people view their own health and not painting various weights with a broad brush.

I work in the business world, and I do think it has to do with first impressions and perceptions. I really do think that if people meet you and see that you're obese, the thought is that you don't have your act together, are lazy, or something. I meet alot of people via the phone or email first, and in person second. And the second time I meet them, they'll swear they've never met me before. Am I working with all dumbbells, or do they just truly dismiss me from memory, as if I'm insignificant. This happened last week - 3 people thought they were meeting me for the 1st time and I could name the place where we had met before some 6-9 months earlier. I think you just look like you are not the professional complete package if you aren't put together well. I'm thankful I don't work at a place where looks are overly emphasized, such as advertising or marketing, because there, yes it could be critical. But so would be good hair, good teeth, trendy clothing and the right accessories. Like I said, it's a package.

Sharkeysmachine, members of 3FC are all just people--not necessarily any more sensitive or any more immune to stereotypes as folks anywhere else. It's sort of like internalized oppression. But everyone here is learning more every day! :yes: It's good that you pointed out that being fat does not necessarily equate to being unfit.

Jay