I think eating honey is the least of my concerns although I've never really eaten honey to begin with.
Photo - I know I've heard the 'taking advantage' thing with cows but it is really more than that. It is the fact that dairy cows are treated horribly for their incredibly short lives which end up as them being second grade meat. A lot of people think that the dairy industry is far more cruel than the meat industry. I gave up meat/dairy for health reasons though but I do think dairy is one of the worst things you can eat, healthwise.
Thanks for all the info on honey. Now I'm rethinking my dairy. I do buy free range eggs... I have been assuming those chickens are treated well. I mainly eat egg whites -- scrambled, fried, in omelets -- and I just love them. I also love cheese, although I really don't eat a lot of it. Well, I take that back because I do eat a bit of feta at least 4-5 days a week on my salad. I think I need to do some research.
You know, it's great that this discussion has sparked so much introspection.
I appreciate all the input and ideas shared. We all live as we feel is best for us and being able to live respectfully alongside one another (if even just in cyber-space) is really great.
Here's a good brief and not at all "preachy" explanation behind some of the "free range" poultry concerns.
Here's some food for thought on some of the concerns people interested in being "cruelty free" and environmentally conscious have with dairy products, in an article that articulates many of these issues:
I am one of those Flexitarians... and wanted to chime in...
I don't label myself as a vegetarian - But I am labeled one because there's no simple way of labeling my eating repitiore...
I personally don't like to eat beef, pork, chicken, bison, elk, pheasant, quail, rabbit or other meat. I also don't like certain fish. Because they personally remind me of eating people. And I REALLY don't like that. However, I don't have a problem eating tuna fish from a can or canned crab meat. I also don't find gelatin to have any human qualities either. It's just a personal preference.
So when someone offers me a burger and I say - no thanks - They say "Oh are you a vegatarian"... The above ^^^ disseratation seems rather lenthy... when a simple nod or "pretty much" will do.
Well I guess my point really is if someone offers me some food and I refuse it, I don't have to list out every single item of food that I don't eat. Obviously it isn't a problem for you because if something is vegetarian you can eat it. Where as vegetarians have to constantly explain themselves to various people on the fact that they don't eat fish or other things that people have seen 'vegetarians' eat.
Humans love labels. They make communication easier (at least they're supposed to), but when people don't fit into existing labels there's a dilemma.
Use an existing label inappropriately (really annoys a lot of people).
Coin a new label (really annoys a lot of people).
Give a lengthy explanation (really annoys a lot of people).
Being too precise can destroy meaning as much as being too vague, but the problem is where to draw the line. The line is always drawn individually based upon personal values and beliefs not only regarding the specific label itself, but about the necessity for precision in language (both situationally and generally).
It's selfish and egocentric (as is most of human behavior) to only care about the labels in regard to how they apply to ourselves, but that's generally what occurs. If I belong and care about the label, I don't want to be mislabeled and I don't want others mislabeled either. If it's a label to which I do not belong to or identify with, my motives for caring are very different. Then I'm apt to regard the label only in terms of it's informative value to me, and it only has to be as precise as I need it to be.
When I converted to the Missouri Synod Lutheran church, I learned that for many people the synod to which one belongs is VERY important, and confusing synod membership can be "fighting words." At our own wedding, we nearly caused a family feud, because the minister said a prayer at our wedding reception before the meal. Apparently, praying in a mixed group of denominations (Catholic, Missouri and Wisconsin synod Lutheran and the mixed religions of our coworkers who attended) is a MAJOR no-no for Wisconsin synod Lutherans. Some of my husband's relatives were DEEPLY offended, and we heard about it later, heck we STILL hear about it.
Not sure if there is any solution, but I do think talking about it does help. It brings the awareness to people who otherwise wouldn't realize there was a reason to care.
So when someone offers me a burger and I say - no thanks - They say "Oh are you a vegatarian"... The above ^^^ disseratation seems rather lenthy
See, my response to this would simply be "nope" with a smile. I don't see that I need to define myself to anyone. If they pressed for more information, I'd say something like "there are some things I don't eat, and some things I do."
People tend to think that it's ok to just ask any old personal question and to delve into your whys and wherefores ... and I just don't buy into that. Not that I consider what you eat to be on the same level as, say, your sex life or your finances! But mostly unless someone is asking because they're really interested in getting to know me or interested in the lifestyle I've chosen, I just smile and keep my answers short and sweet.
hi everyone. i am new but as a ovolacto vegetarian for 13 years i have to say something.
a lot of vegans and vegetarians have this whole self righteous attitude going on that i don't understand. i was a vegan for 2 years and it didn't work out because i missed salmon. sorry(or not.) anyway, while i was a vegan i was asked by various people if i ate fish or other non vegan animal product stuff. i would say no and that would be it. i didn't get mad, i didn't want to point out the definition of "animal" in anyone's face. i don't own the word vegan or vegetarian and it doesn't really bother me that other people use it differently than i do. in life there are so many different levels to everything that we do that yes, some people are going to ask questions and yes some people are going to ask you the same question that someone else asked. the reality is, if you're a vegan or a vegetarian for WHATEVER reason then it shouldn't matter who says what about a stupid word that really means nothing. just don't eat meat or animal products and when someone asks you if you're a vegetarian you can proudly say that yes you are a REAL one. honestly though who cares? i don't even tell people that i am an ovo lacto vegetarian. it's a mouthful and i've been doing this for so long, it's seems like a natural part of my life. i don't understand why people in any kind of group have to find a way of alienating others because they don't do things exactly the same way? it must be human nature or something.
It took many many months for me to say I was a vegetarian and really, I've only said that to a few people. (As I said before, I usually say I don't eat animal products) The issue really comes up in situations where people think they understand what vegetarian means. "Come over for dinner, I will cook something vegetarian for you" and then someone serves you fish, chicken or other animal products. Or even if you go to a restaurant and they have 'vegetarian' options that include fish.
Curious though that you say you were vegan but missed salmon, why couldn't you eat a mostly vegan diet and eat salmon? Are you classifying your current vegetarianism as pescatarian?
I think we are all responsible for what goes into our mouths but it can be a daunting task to eat out or even eat with friends sometimes. At most regular restaurants, I usually have 1 maybe 2 choices of things to eat off the menu. It is also refreshing when a restaurant understands vegetarian diets and tries to accommodate them. If accommodating started meaning 'fish products are ok', then it would be even more difficult.
I personally eat out at a vegan restaurant almost every week. Mostly because it is nice to go out and have lots of choices that are good and I don't have to worry about them not understanding what I'd want in my food and what I wouldn't.
Nelie - You've missed my point - I clearly said that I don't refer to myself as a vegetarian. I pointed out the fact that because I don't eat most meat, it is other people that have labeled me a vegetarian.
I know what "vegetarian" means. Because I occasionaly eat fish from a can... I don't care if that negates me from being in the vegetarian club.. I don't label myself as one... People label other people inappropriately all the time - it's called life.
I guess my point really was that I think it is silly for someone to assume someone is vegetarian because they don't want a hamburger (or something else meaty). I know many people that don't eat beef. At one point, I was eating meat rarely and people would ask me if I was vegetarian. I would say no because I wasn't.
