Sad number crunching
 

I just thought about it today.. my daughter and I eating meat twice a day. 365 days a year x 2 = 730 animals per year.

I'm so glad we went veggie and haven't looked back. I can't handle being responsible for so much slaughter.

When you think about those numbers per person, in fact more in some cases with people who also eat meat for breakfast (I could never get into that) no wonder factory farming has become such a lucrative practice. We've been trained that we have to eat meat for protein and there is no healthy way to be vegetarian.

It seems at first like how can just one person make a difference? But crunching those numbers... 730-1000 animals per year, per person. That is a HUGE difference that ONE person can make.

On the health side we eat a very balanced diet and take supplements. Both of us feel fine, if not better than before. The smell of meat makes me ill now. I had co-workers who were eating a big pile of ribs 2 feet away from me last week and it made me want to hurl. Burning flesh does not smell good...

Anyway, that was just something that weighed heavily on my mind today. Maybe a good point to make to someone who says they want to go vegetarian but just can't do it.

Well you don't eat a whole animal every time you eat a meal with meat, unless you eat a whole chicken or a whole cow, and that's a LOT of food. A single person can't eat all of the meat off of a cow, and you'd have to have a huge appetite to eat an entire chicken. And you don't eat a whole turkey every time you have a turkey sandwich, nor is it a whole pig when you have a slice or two of bacon. I don't want to burst your bubble, but no, you're not eating 730 animals per year. You're not even eating half that, most likely a fraction of it.

I was a vegetarian for 16 or so months and I eat chicken and turkey now. To be honest, I got really bored. I was eating the same bland food every day. I still don't eat beef or pork and I don't eat chicken or turkey every day.

Liza, you remind me, uncomfortably, of my hypocrisy: I only eat free-range meat, because at least it's had a natural life before slaughter; but I do have to deliberately close my mind to all the stories I've read about bad slaughter conditions, and then I feel guilty.....

I need to do some more thinking. and recipe finding.

Ok, let me first say, I thoroughly respect the choice to eat veggie for whatever reason. It can be healthier, it can be more eco-friendly, it can be more animal-friendly. (It can also be none of these things, but that depends on the individual vegetarian's choices.) I'm not a veg, but we usually eat 1-2 meatless days a week, since it can be cheaper, healthier, more "green," and more authentic (Indian recipes really taste "off" when they add meat!).

Anyhow, I figured I was better equipped than some to explain what the actual numbers are for meat-eating: I grew up on a farm, and while we ate a LOT of meat, we very rarely ate anything that wasn't homegrown. We raised and butchered our own chickens (70-100/year), received a half a cow for Christmas every year from my grandfather who milked Jerseys, and canned/preserved everything we could from the gardens and fruit trees. Every 2-3 years we would raise a pig, as well.

We still ate a lot of purchased food (bread, milk, etc), but our meat was strictly from the deep freeze in the basement.

We were a meat-heavy family of 5, and it took us a year to eat half a cow, and 50-70 chickens. The average ox (gender-neutral term for "cow") will yield 5-600 pounds of meat. Even if you ate a quarter-pound of meat at every meal, it would take a year to finish half a cow. That's 30-40 in a lifetime (if you ate only beef) - still a lot, but not a thousand a year.



Like I said, I'm not trying to downplay vegetarianism or the effect eating meat has on the world/environment/animals. The ground needed to feed that ox that you and your daughter would split on an meat-heavy diet is 2-5 acres a year - that can feed a lot of people. I just wanted to give you a better idea of how much meat (or how many animals) a person will actually eat.

In terms of being responsible for slaughter, as the original post indicates, it does not matter if she was eating an entire chicken or a drumstick. A chicken breast for lunch and another for dinner is still 2 chickens, it matters not who else ate from those same animals.

My family splits half a cow every year, and yes it does take them a while to burn through it. But your average person isn't going to stockpile 300lbs of meat to use for a year. They're going to go to the grocery and buy a package of chicken breasts, or ground turkey breast, or a few steaks. Doing it that way, if you're going to actually look at numbers (as the OP did), you really have to count individual animals - because I find it difficult to believe that the ground beef in the grocery today all came from one cow, thus the 2 packages purchased today are more realistically from 2 different animals. So while the original OP's numbers might be high, they're certainly not over the top for the majority of meat eaters, who shop in regular groceries and don't stockpile hundreds of pounds of meat.

Thank you, that was exactly my point.

I grew up in the country too and lived in the day when families split a cow that lasted the summer or hunted. Things are different now as most don't live that way and every package of meat you buy is most likely a new animal.

I'm not preaching that everyone should go veggie but at least look at where your food comes from and maybe make a decision that would put factory farmers out of business. Even if people think it's fine and don't care about suffering of animals (I know a lot of people who think it's stupid to pass a law demanding chickens can stretch their wings) then at least look at the health risks to themselves from such conditions.

Actually, that is not a bad thing and that is how I started. I wanted to go vegetarian two years ago but my daughter absolutely didn't want to (yet). Buying meat for one person (who weighs 98 lbs) doesn't work very well. So I made a choice that we would eat organic, free-range, etc. until the day came that we would both give it up. We could at least feel better about that and not supporting factory farming. That does make a HUGE difference!

If you do want to try some recipes, I found this website and bought the cookbook. Unbelievable what this guy can come up with! http://vegandad.blogspot.com/

Unfortunately a lot of meat goes to waste in its production. I was just reading how unsold meat gets burned for energy and it isn't a small number. Also, dairy and egg production also contributes to animal deaths. Factory dairy cows have a fairly short lifespan and then they are sold for meat.

So I think giving up meat (and dairy/eggs) can have a fairly large impact over time. For me, it was my husband and I went vegan. Also, I have influenced my inlaws and my mom has been following a mostly vegan diet for the past couple months due to my influence.

I feed my dogs mostly vegetarian and I am supplementing some of the meat based food they are eating with vegetarian foods.

Also, the cows used for leather aren't the same cows used for meat so by saying I don't buy leather anymore, then I am contributing even a bit more.

It may seem small but really it does add up.

I still cook meat for my dog and it's free-range chicken. I buy the whole chicken and steam it with brown rice, broccoli, carrots and green beans with a clove of garlic for fleas.

We don't do leather anything either. Grosses me out when I think about wearing skin that isn't mine!

One comment I'd say is 'free range' doesn't always mean what you may think it does. Many companies use 'free range' to describe chickens that were raised from hatchlings in a building at at 8 weeks (I believe) they open a door to allow them to go outside to a small yard. The chickens actually never go outside to the yard because it is the unknown. As a result, they never get to see sunlight and they never get to touch the ground. So free range is a bit misleading but not all companies are the same.

I would have trouble cooking any meat product for my dogs although I have started them recently on eggs. I found a local supplier of pasture raised chickens where the chickens actually get to see sunlight and touch grass/dirt. The first time I cooked a batch of eggs for them, it was difficult but I figure if I'm reducing their meat consumption, it is ok. I also cook them rice/other grains and give them veggies.

I could go for months eating vegetarian and never, ever get bored. Gosh, way too many possibilities. I am a fish eater though--rarely, any other flesh passes my lips nowadays. I also eat egg whites which is disagreeable to some true vegetarians as well.

Food boredom only comes to me when I've failed to plan. If I don't have a dinner planned out, my "go-to" meal is broccoli. Last week, I was very lazy, didn't want to plan out meals, and ate a plate of broccoli for dinner every night. The same goes for DH though, if he doesn't have a plan and I don't have a plan, he'd eat hot dogs for dinner every night and get bored. :D

I plan out our meals a week in advance, to make sure I've got everything I need to make them. Then when I get home from work, DH gets to pick what's for dinner that night from the planned menus, and lunch the next day is the leftovers. We have a few repeated meals each week usually, because they're our favorites (mmm curried lentils and rice and bean salad), but I plan for at least 1 recipe per week that we haven't tried yet.

On a side note, Nelie, you are my hero. A few weeks ago you mentioned mock tuna salad with chickpeas. It was good, but I thought I'd try and recreate my favorite chicken salad with chickpeas and oh my goodness! DH thought something was wrong with me when he took a bite of my pita, he swore it was chicken!

I certainly wouldn't consider my food boring. I made a moroccan style dish last night, the night prior to that I was eating a french style dish. I make wonderfully delicious foods.

One of the reason I started going towards vegetarian was because I was tired of eating meat. I think my food tastes better now than it ever did when I ate meat.

Boring? Give me a break. Meat has little flavor on it's own - the flavor comes in from how the animal is cooked and seasoned.

Most veg*ns that do any semblance of planning ahead will tell you that food has never been so good and unboring in their lives once they switch.

It is funny, I was just thinking the other day that vegans hold the biggest secret ever in that the food is sooo good.

Hello, I am interested in starting my family toward more meatless meals. My husband would freak if I had us all go veg right now but I am thinking the more I sneak in the easier it will be. He doesnt need meat at every meal like some but dropping it all is intimidating I think. Also I have to be gluten free so the whole family eats dinners that way so imagine taking out two possiblities lol!

My question is this... how did you make chicken salad from chickpeas and make it so good, tell me please!!! This sounds like something perfect for our lunches as we love chickpeas. Please please post or pm me!

Exactly! Have you ever had a chunk of chicken with no seasoning? Blech.

I think of the holiday dinner parties I've had and why everyone loved my cooking. It wasn't the turkey itself, it was the cajun spices I injected into it and the chardonnay gravy they poured over it. Same for the brisket at Channukah - stuffed with garlic cloves and brined in red wine. The meat wasn't the center piece, the seasonings were.

Now that I've done some research on vegan and vegetarian recipes I'm learning so much more about this style of cooking than I ever thought possible. It would be boring if all you ate were salads and tofu. Once you get the hang of it you realize that you didn't need meat in any of your favorite dishes. I use chopped mushrooms in place of chopped meat for stuffed pasta dishes like ravioli or shells. I'm Sicilian so I got the sauces down a long time ago for those. I made rolled tacos with chopped mushrooms and spinach last week that were awesome too. I'm just learning that tofu does not have to be the main ingredient of my dishes. I rarely use it now.

Originally I just wanted to go vegetarian, actually pescetarian and not vegan. I'm finding so many great vegan recipes that it's pretty rare now that I use any sort of animal product. I haven't eaten any fish in a long time either. I think cheese for our pizzas last night was the only animal product we've used in at least two weeks.

I wouldn't be so quick to diss tofu. Baked tofu (with whatever seasonings you choose) is oh so good. Tofu is kind of my nemesis though, it took me a year of being vegan before I even tried to make it myself. I still rarely use it but I want to use it more often because it is pretty cheap and can be really good.

With my husband and I, I went vegan overnight (literally, I had a steak the night before) and he was vegan at home. When we would eat out or he would eat out for a business trip, he didn't try to be vegetarian or vegan until about 3 or 4 months after I stopped eating animal products. I haven't been perfect since day 1 but it wasn't because I didn't enjoy my food but mostly convenience.

As for chickpea salad, this is the recipe I modified and used for inspiration.
http://www.ivu.org/recipes/snacks/dolphin.html

Oh I'm not dissing tofu! I actually like it a lot and used terriyaki baked tofu sliced thin on my pizza last night. Delicious! One of my favorite "quick" dinners is curried tofu over long grain brown rice with steamed veggies. Mmmmm.

I just have to be careful because I have a goiter and if I eat too much soy, my thyroid expands to my ears. No joke.

Has anyone tried making their own seitan? I got the recipe from Vegan Dad and made "pepperoni" with it last week. I took some to my co-workers and they couldn't believe it wasn't real meat!

I've made seitan lots of times! Earlier this year I was in a seitan making kick. It is so easy.

Where is the pepperoni recipe?

These are the recipes I've used in the past
http://www.everydaydish.tv/index.php...ow&category=25
http://www.everydaydish.tv/index.php...ipe&recipe=109

Here it is! http://vegandad.blogspot.com/2008/03...pepperoni.html

I brushed a little olive oil on it before baking it on pizza and it really was as good as the "real" thing! My daughter LOVES pepperoni and that was a toughie for her to give up. Now she's happy :)

One thing I'd look at is really the 'free range' meat because honestly 'free range' really doesn't mean what most people think it means. Unless you are buying from a farm and seeing the animals, most 'free range' is completely unnatural and still very tramatizing to the animals since they are kept in close confines. For chickens, it generally means they aren't in cages which is good but that is really where the good ends. The also generally never get to go outside, never touch dirt, etc.

Honestly, vegan food is fairly cheap and no it isn't all tofu. As I said, it took me a year of eating vegan before I even tried to make tofu. You may not have time to cook and may resort to some other things but for me, vegan food doesn't generally take much time to cook. I don't cook every day either but I have found making leftovers for the next day saves a lot of time.

I wasn't offended, I just have to say I've never found what I eat to be boring.

Exactly. Point being when people say they get bored or can't give up flesh due to taste (won't, not can't but I digress from that), it's the seasoning and flavoring not the actual hunk of dead animal.

I am hopeful that the conversation inserted regarding someone's thoughts about their former life as a vegetarian and follow-up comments are winding down.

I do appreciate our original poster's concerns about what her individual impact can be on so much more beyond herself. As a Quaker, it is a large portion of my faith-based practise to really reflect on just that. Each individual's concern that leads to changing or maybe reinforcing that individual's own behavior.

I gave up meat because of many reasons that came again and again to me. I started inserting more and more recipes that headed me down a new direction to explore. This change seemed to really react well with my concerns so I reinforced the changes and viola. Edzard's strategy is similar to mine with a family to live with as one member makes a lifestyle change.

In the beginning, I added additional vegetarian choices to normal meals. As these became more familiar, the kids and hubby took larger and larger samples. Weirdly enough, I eventually became so much more vegetarian than meat eater (like once or twice a year) that I was impacting my relationship with my husband--after about two years I realized that the nasty smell from him was only on days he ate meat. Wow, I didn't mean to separate us on this. In my head, it was my own decision and I was perfectly happy to be the grey goose out. No problem.

Then I noticed that my sons were more often asking for no meat. My older son's always been a "baconarian"--a raw, plain tofu with huge sides of raw veggie eating fiend that can't resist bacon on a huge veggie sandwich once in a while. He's now about 95% vegetarian. My husband's daily life is mostly vegetarian with occasional fish. He'll have goat on religious celebrations according to his culture. My younger son never met a meal that wasn't his friend. He swings both ways!

I create loads of vegetarian recipes with sometimes black beans, chickpeas, or pinto beans acting as meat. Although I've become a reluctant but quite happy tofu fan, I mostly eat things that aren't too far from where they started. Can't get myself to try many of the different meat-alternative options. Probably because I'm the only openly "out" vegetarian around these parts so I don't often taste these new foods.

I just stick with beans, nuts, and tofu. (Full disclosure: I do eat cheese and eggwhites, though.) I make a mean spicy black bean and mushroom curry that's to die for (if I do say so myself). I'd say all my recipes, though, reflect what's in the frig, what calories and food groups I have left for the day, and my favorite flavors. I keep a few sauces on hand and a stock of basic spices (especially onions, garlic, ginger, and basic stuff) to have many options at the drop of a hat.

Happy veggin' folks. From one to all. ;-)

So anyhoo... back to the original theme of the post. I really am amazed at how much of a difference one person can make in the factory farming by even cutting down on meat. I had been discussing it with a co-worker earlier who proudly eats meat and veggie products at the same time. He was actually stunned when he thought about it and said "Wow, I've already eaten 3 different meats today and it's only 4 PM!"

And Nelie, I agree that "Free Range" doesn't neccessarily mean humane. I'm just saying it's at least a step in a better direction. Slaughter is still slaughter and there is nothing kind about it. At the same time for those who really aren't ready to give up the meat eating lifestyle I think they should at least demand better quality from the places they are paying for this product. Cows who are diseased and unable to walk do NOT make for good food. Same goes for chickens. It's unhealthy and torturous to the animal and it's unhealthy for whoever consumes it too. Meat is muscle.. cows that don't walk and graze don't have healthy muscle mass and it mostly fat. So even if people don't feel guilty for eating the animal, they should at least be concerned for their own health and less trusting of the "Because we say so" leaders who allow this to happen.

There are people who roll their eyes and think I'm an idiot for not eating meat. I'm ok with that. I smile with every meal I make and every bite I take because I know that I've created a treat that is healthy for both my body and soul.

lizbabe, as I pointed out earlier, even if you aren't directly eating whole animals, the entire commercial animal production involves a lot of waste from animals that are killed and can't be eaten from excess meat that isn't sold. So yes you are saving the lives of many animals over time :)

I also mentioned the 'free range' thing because a lot of people have visions of little happy chickens and cows roaming the fields when it just isn't true.

No worries, I knew what you meant and wasn't offended. Until we really put thought into it, we don't realize how much we affect these things and how many animals have been killed and tortured in our interest. It's a lot to take on and I think some of the negative attitude I've heard is because people don't want to know and feel responsible for it all. Though I work with one guy who is very right sided and he was spouting off about how stupid this new law in California is requiring that chickens at least be able to stretch their wings. He screamed "That costs money! It's a f***ing chicken!"

*sigh*

Well for me, it was not a matter of being bored with the taste, but the limited options. I still eat and love vegetarian dishes and food, I just wanted more options.

And the way I look at it too, I eat less meat than I used to before I was a vegetarian. It's a nice compromise, eating chicken and turkey but no pork or beef, and not eating meat every day.

And for the record, I do like the taste of plain chicken. :-)

And regarding free range, our government has very poor standards of what free range actually is. The FDA and the USDA have very loose standards, sometimes meaning that chickens only get an hour outside of their cages once a day. It's a very misleading term, and I think it's one of those buzz words that companies but on their products to get the more ignorant consumers to buy, same with "trans fat free." A lot of people don't do research about something before they buy it.

Nelie, thank you for those links! I've got "pepperoni" on the steamer right now (It's a hit with my daughter) and will probably use the ones from you this weekend. Her carnivore friend is visiting us for the weekend and happily eats whatever I cook so I like to throw out new things each visit.

It's nice to have the video on those links so I know I'm doing it right :)

You know what's really good? Tofurkey italian sausage. I still use it when i make pasta. It's very tasty and is mixed with tomatoes and garlic. It's pricey but worth it.

I've tried that one and I do like it better than the Boca sausages. They are good but yes, pricey. I realized I was spending as much on the faux meats as the real ones. I'm hoping to cut the grocery bill down as one of the perks with the dietary change.

I was actually surprised at how easy and quick it is to make my own sausages. This actually tastes better to me than the pre-made ones! Took about 2 minutes to mix everything together into seitan, roll it in foil and plunk it in the steamer. 45 minutes in the steamer and then it was ready to eat. I took the dog for a run and dinner was done.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y17...e/P8190240.jpg

I'm so stuffed... and I can't believe how awesome that recipe is!

My favorite are the lightlife ones although I will say that making your own is pretty quick and fairly cheap! The Everydaydish.tv italian sausages are really yummy and very easy.

I can't believe how easy making seitan is! The only complicated thing for me was finding vital wheat gluten. I searched 3 grocery stores including Whole Foods and couldn't find it. I finally ordered it through a seller on amazon. I got 3.5 lbs for $13 including shipping. 3.5 lbs will make A LOT of meals for us so it really is cheap.

It really fills you up too. That was only a 6 inch pizza and I was stuffed after one slice of it. Of course I had nibbled on the pepperoni a little before making it too ;)

nelie, that's been a question on my mind for awhile "what happens to all the meat that doesn't get bought?" When walking past the meat in the grocery stores I always think it looks so gross, seeing the legs of lambs and other bits and parts of animals, and I think "wow, that's alot, and then there has to be more in each grocery store that's around in this area"...and then I think it's sad, how much of it really gets bought by it's expiration date? Animals just live a horrible life, get killed and die and most not even eaten, just thrown away. Maybe I'm over thinking...

Grocery stores usually put it on sale and it gets bought up pretty good.

But it's like other expired food... I think they just throw it away. Which is bad. That's something I'm really trying to avoid, throwing away food.

btw, lizababe, that pizza looks delicious. too bad i'm on an anti-pizza mission or i'd totally eat that :-(

Anti-pizza mission is a good thing. Those are actually very small pizzas and I made it with a whole wheat crust but still. If I have one slice of regular pizza, I see 5 lbs on the scale the next day. I retain water like a sham wow.