Location: i am neither greek nor athenian, but a citizen of the world.
Posts: 328
should you challenge people's attitudes if it's not meant meanly?
Often on 3fc, people discuss whether insulting and rude behaviour should be challenged or if we should sort of let it slide. What do people here think about the kind of comment that isn't pointed or directed, but reveals sinister assumptions? One time some people were discussing the Gulf War, and this guy made a casual comment about 'the Iraqis' deserving a good 'kicking' or something to that effect. I happen to be of Iraqi origin, and look it - but I guess he didn't know that...he probably thinks all Iraqis have 'brown' skin or something . I let it slide. Then the other day I was in the bar with a gay friend, and the person next to us laughingly used the word 'F*****T'. I'm not going to type that word, it's too horrible. It was not directed at my friend. I don't think this person would consider themself a homophobe, as I don't think the other person would consider themself a racist. But, seeing as we live in a society where these ideas seem to be festering right below the surface, do you think it is our duty to call people up on them? Or is it not worth the agro?
I guess, for me, if it's someone I love or a good friend, I would challenge them on it. But, unfortunately, for the most part, the chances of changing someones opinion of a certain nationality/personal lifestyle is slim to none. However, I also feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion, in a respectful manner -- meaning derogatory terms, comments neither make someone look educated or insightful on any given topic.
Personally, I'd call 'em out. Though, it depends on the attitude and manner in which it's done. I find that if one responds with defensiveness and flings insults back it's not going to change anything. Coming from a devil's advocate point of view usually plants a seed. Stating that you assume that person didn't mean harm, but then stating the other side opens doors. I'm strictly speaking from my experience, of course.
It depends. If I am having a conversation with someone I will usually challenge them, but if it is something I overhear I won't. My ex used some amount of gay slurs and he claimed that he wasn't homophobic (although I do think it made him uncomfortable), but that all his guy friends talked that way. My response was that if he wanted to talk that way around his friends, so be it, but he shouldn't do so in my presence because I wouldn't tolerate it.
I feel it's appropriate to choose my battles. There are some people who cannot be changed or enlightened, regardless of the assumed lightheartedness intent of the comment. That's just how it goes. The severity of it is also an issue. A lot of people find phrases like "that's so gay" offensive, but I don't feel like having a battle over that. Usually I'll say something wry, like "oh, you mean like me?" That, to me, is enough.
If it is a friend or acquaintance, I will certainly correct them. No one I know would say anything negative out of hatefulness, so that makes it a little blurry. But if it's some random stranger, no way. I don't need to get involved, and I just hope they get whatever's coming to them.
I feel that people who throw out terms that discriminate or are hurtful to others are showing their ignorance. And I agree with Shelby, if it were a friend or loved one I would call them out on it. I realize they are entitled to their opinion, but so am I. If I was out and it was someone I didn't know, I would let it slide and let their stupidity shine.
Location: i am neither greek nor athenian, but a citizen of the world.
Posts: 328
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A lot of people find phrases like "that's so gay" offensive, but I don't feel like having a battle over that. Usually I'll say something wry, like "oh, you mean like me?" That, to me, is enough.
LOL! Best! Comeback! Ever!
Seriously, thanks for your insights. I like the idea of asking someone not use a particular word around *you* (a candidate springs to my mind right away!) It's better than what I'm doing right now, which is saying nothing and resenting it!
I think you have to be careful if you are out someplace like the bar. Sometimes saying something to someone in a place like that can result in a fight.
I've been in a situation where I wanted to whack someone over the head because he thought they were funny making ethnic slurs at the top of his voice. We were in a restaurant, not a bar and that guy was at another table. I asked to be moved. In fact, the owner had to ask him to leave because so many people were complaining. It got ugly.
Be careful when you are out is all I'm saying. Your personal safety is worth more than trying to change some moron's mind or outlook on life or their own behavior.
If someone says something in a direct conversation with me, I'll say something. For instance, working in academia, I'm constantly surrounded by people who are avowed atheists and socialists. Many of these people automatically assume that all around them agree (and that the only people who don't aren't smart enough to be a professor!). I've had a number of situations where someone says something about "all those annoying, Bible thumping Christians." I always smile and say "like me?"
If i just overheard someone saying something in a conversation with someone else, I wouldn't think of saying anything. That's like correcting someone else's child. As annoying as the kid might be, I won't do anything beyond shooting dirty looks at the parents.
My husband can be a bit of a meanie when it comes to other races, I usually tell him to keep his thoughts to himself, and that the children or I do not need to hear it.
I'll do the same to someone I do not know who is talking to me.
If someone is talking to someone else, I'll pretty much ignore it.
It really depends on the situation though. If my children are with me, I'll usually tell them off (nicely of course).
At work, if my students start talking about it - I'll remind them that the college they attend is very diverse, and that the diversity of the students and instructors is what makes our institute as great as it is. Everyone has their own experiences and can use it to the best of their ablities to help themselves and others.
Last edited by tamaralynn; 02-06-2008 at 09:00 AM.
should you challenge people's attitudes if it's not meant meanly?
. I let it slide. Then the other day I was in the bar with a gay friend, and the person next to us laughingly used the word 'F*****T'. I'm not going to type that word, it's too horrible. It was not directed at my friend. I don't think this person would consider themself a homophobe, as I don't think the other person would consider themself a racist. But, seeing as we live in a society where these ideas seem to be festering right below the surface, do you think it is our duty to call people up on them? Or is it not worth the agro? 
Stating that you assume that person didn't mean harm, but then stating the other side opens doors. I'm strictly speaking from my experience, of course.
This would be in the context of a conversation with people one knows or has been introduced to.
