This is my 4th time on weight watchers. The first couple of times weren't failures, just pregnancies.

But anyway, I now have a monthly pass, and I know it's a bit of a hassle to cancel it.

Now that Core is changing ... and the economy is so bad, I'm thinking of joining TOPS (tops dot org), which my grandma loves. It's like a yearly membership fee of $30 which is a lot more reasonable. It's a non profit org with meetings and weigh-ins.

I learned a lot from being on Core ... one of the value of a low-glycemic diet. However, I am frustrated with the food list because you're only supposed to think of it as "this is Core or that is Core," but not think of it as what fits into the plan nutritionally. You're just supposed to take WW's word for it.

There are foods I think should be Core and shouldn't be, based on nutrition. I've gotten flamed so many times for mentioning this stuff on WW's Core board. It's like you're not supposed to question it.

I've thought about trying a no-flour no-sugar diet in lieu of Core, and doing weigh-ins with TOPS.

I suppose I'll see what the new plan is ... but sometimes I feel that WW is gimmicky and all about corporate marketing. And I have a feeling that this new plan will just be a marketing thing ... I am wondering if I should spend my $39 a month on a gym membership and stop lining WW's pockets...

Hey there. I see we are about the same stats. I also was very successful with WW once and then had my baby girl. When I went back after I had her I just couldn't stick to the plan. So I stopped my monthly pass. (It's actually pretty simple to stop online.)

You might like the book Inituitive Eating. I'm about half way through and since you understand what you "should" be eating most of the time, you might really like this book and thought process behind it.

What ever floats your boat Sounds like you already made up your mind and wish you much luck on the plan you do choose!

As for posting that WW is a gimmick on the Core board here.....well I just don't think it's a good idea esp since people that frequent here are members of WW That is kind of like me going in full LSU gear to Alabama at hollering that they suck!

she didn't say that it is a gimmick, she said she feels like it is gimmicky. there is a difference. everybody has their own opinions. i've been doing ww and her saying that doesn't bother me and it shouldn't bother anybody else. it's how she feels.

ingridon- sounds like you have a good feel for what you know your body needs. do what you need to to be successful! it's your journey and everybody's journey is different. i have heard about tops and it sounds like a great group!

Like RomanceDiva said, it sounds like you've already made up your mind!

I remember reading somewhere that the most successful weight-losers are the ones who look at existing plans and make something better out of them, not those who follow someone else's plan to a T. If low-sugar/low-flour + general concepts Core is based on are going to work best for you, then do it! I have modified the Core plan in small ways for myself - for instance, I don't bother with FF dairy unless it is all that is available (I purchase LF dairy for myself typically and do not count the points - I don't agree with a total FF diet). It's all about what you make of it.

Hope you find what you are looking for!

Well, I'm not saying I'm quitting yet ... just considering it for $$ reasons, mostly.

I'm mom of two little kids. One of them has special needs, and time and money are so precious. I think the component of WW that is so wonderful is the meetings/weigh-ins. I think that accountability is key.

I probably never should've visited with WW boards. Unfortunately, so many who post there are purists. You can't question WW's choices of what is Core and what isn't. I don't think you should follow a plan just because "WW says so."

I do love WW. The good health guidelines are a majorly good idea. Core is a good idea ... or the low glycemic, whole foods diet is and I owe WW lots of thanks for it. So I'm torn.

I'm also at a plateau that's hard for me to break out of. I think I might need an exercise class or gym membership to help me, but I can't afford both!

I too hope you find what works best for you and what you can live with for the rest of your life. Everyone is different.

Please keep in mind WW has been around for over 30+ years - for a reason I bounced around for years - both with WW and other programs - thinking I knew better but then I came to my senses

All the best to you - whatever you decide

And one other thing I thought of and have read as well, no matter what the changes are, you can still follow whatever version of WW that works for you! This is the best place for questions and support - the WW Core board (and others boards there) seem too hostile And if you want to follow other programs "ideas", you can still incorporate it with the Flex Plan!

heres something i found about tops---theyre leaders are untrained so you might think about that. good luck!

I think if you say you are doing WW you should follow the plan as written or tell people you are doing a modification. The food list eliminates trigger foods and foods people tend to overeat without thinking. There's a lot more to core so if you have read the articles on the science behind the core plan on the WW site, you don't know all there is to know about the plan. WW spends tons of money to keep abreast of what is the best way to lose weight - if you know better, why not start your own plan and make the big bucks for yourself? I'm a WW success - I've kept 200 pounds off for more than 30 years, but then I was silly and stuck with the plan as written. Every diet, even the fad ones does work, you just have to find the one that works for you. If TOPS fits your lifestyle better, then that is the way to go. I do wish you success with whatever plan you decide to follow.

Quilter, if you've stuck with WW for over 30 years, you've done several different plans, because they've changed things several times over the course of that period of time. Why do you think they changed things? Because, perhaps, it wasn't working as well?

I do think WW has a lot of things right, as stated before. The good health guidelines, the meetings and accountability. But WW is not the gospel on all things health/weight loss, and I don't think it's wrong to question it. You can still be a member of WW and not think that everything they're doing is The Bible of Eating. Heck, they've added and taken things off the Core food list since it came out in 2005. Why? The foods haven't changed.

IngridonWW, I think a lot of people don't understand TOPS. I happen to belong to both WW and TOPS. You can follow any diet you wish on TOPS, it's mainly a support group. As for the leaders being "untrained", I suppose this is true but they are in fact members of the group who are elected for 1 year by the other members. They are given guidelines to follow.

I go to TOPS meetings because I like the extra support but I follow the WW Core plan. I also see no reason why you can't tweak whatever plan you follow to fit your needs as long as it keeps the scale going in the right direction.

Best of luck to you in whatever you choose to do.

Ingrid, I know exactly what you mean about the WW chat boards. They are not very friendly or supportive. Maybe following a modified core and going to tops for weigh in would work for you. Its really what fits in with your life at this point in time.

I've followed core (my version) for several years - made lifetime on it back in 2005. I've been struggling for the past year on the 10+ pounds I gained back. What I'm doing now is Flore -- I'm counting points but still eating core foods. So far its working for me.

If you do decide to stop paying = its not hard at all. I had the monthly pass and easily ended it. The trick is to know when it renews for the month. Worse case you end it and still have a month to go to meetings.

My suggestion -- stick with ww for 2 more weeks to get the information on the new program. Sometimes change is what we need to shake things up. HTH.

I also left WW because of finance and time reasons. But WW has given me a good foundation. I just keep the principles that work in mind, but discard those that don't. It's like one previous poster said, every weight loss experience just gives us more tools in our belt.

Weight Watcher's is a wonderful program, but it's not magic. They make a huge profit and a large part of that profit goes into weight loss research to improve their product and to improve the marketing of their product. Success isn't their only criterion either. Because Weight Watcher's is not just researching the "best" way to lose weight, but also the plan that will appeal to the most people. I do not believe their switcing from an exchange plan to flex was based on health/weight loss as much as the fact that the plan appealed to more people because of the option to "spend points" on ANYTHING. Flex allowed people to eat a much less balanced diet - and that does have psychological advantages. It's easiest to stick with a plan that isn't too far from your current eating patterns. However, I wouldn't argue that their old plans (the exchange plans) were a less healthy or less successful way to lose weight. The change may have been more motivated by marketing issues than health issues. I'm not saying this to bash WW - but WW is a business, and profit for any business (even one designed to help people) is an important issue, and they have to consider not only the best way to lose weight, but the best way to get people in the door and keep them there.

TOPS is a nonprofit organization. Very little money is spent on advertising. However, TOPS is also a research-based plan as they have a research partnership with a Wisconsin medical school. A large portion of TOPS proceeds go to the weight-loss research program at the medical school, and the medical school then shares it's research with the TOPS corporate office which passes along the information to the local groups. One of TOPS advantages (and disadvantages) is that getting people in the door and keeping them there is not a consideration.

TOPS and Weight Watcher's both routinely score very closely in most weight loss program comparisons (usually neck and neck). They both have very similar success rates (as could be determined by the reviewers who attempted to do so, although I believe from several of the reviews I've read that TOPS is much more open about their exact weight loss rates and statistics than Weight Watchers was - which again is understandable as TOPS has nothing to lose by disclosing the data). Because TOPS does not require a specific food plan, there are almost always at least a few former WW members continuing to follow WW plans, but left WW for financial reasons (or a few who will say it wasn't the money, but that the TOPS group met at a more convenient time/day).

I've read newer reviews of various weight loss programs, but one of the best is actually a bit older. It's called "The Unofficial Guide to Dieting Safetly," published in 1998. It's still in print and available at amazon for 12.44 (or used for around $5 including shipping). It compares many programs including Weight Watcher's and TOPS.

My husband and I joined TOPS because we both could join for the less than 1/4 the cost of one of us going to Weight Watcher's. Our cost per month was $9 a month or less (usually less because there were several ways to earn free dues. When we started, I continued to follow the flex program and had all of my Weight Watcher's materials. When I bought the (optional) TOPS book (written by the doctor leading the weight loss program at the Wisconsin medical school), I decided to swith to the TOPS program because it was very similar to the older Weight Watcher's program (exchanges, which all WW plans were prior to 1996) which I had prefered to flex. I can use old WW cookbooks or any exchange plan cookbook - because I've not yet found an exchange plan in which the exchanges themselves deviate much (they're all based on the Diabetic Association plan developed in the 1950's)

Having been a WW member in each of the last four decades, I can say that the quality of leaders is very similar. However, in TOPS often the duties of leading meetings is shared and anyone can present a program to the group - so you get a variety of viewpoints, opinions, and levels of nutritional knowledge. Although, WW leaders also are not all very well-trained, as I've heard just as many crazy theories (ones that certainly would not be endorsed by WW International) about weight loss come from WW leaders as any person doing a TOPS program. In fact, because TOPS is run democratically, it's a lot easier for members with more knowledge to be able to disagree with the program leader and share their knowledge.

To some degree which program is best for you is going to be based on what you need. If you need to spend a lot of money to feel an obligation to commit and comply with the weight loss - Weight Watcher's would be a better choice. If you need to follow a structured program based on good weight loss research - either program might meet your needs. As TOPS does provide information on an exchange plan, and you can certainly use that. Or if you prefer the WW food plan you can get the materials and then decide to switch groups or quit. If you need the accountability of a weekly weigh-in, either group would work well. If you need the support of a group, but don't want to participate or share personal information, a TOPS group might be too intimate for you (not all groups are, but many TOPS groups get very intimate more like a support group than a class). If you like games and contests, TOPS is probably for you. If you hate them - WW might be a better choice.

Whatever you decide, don't let anyone make you feel guilty for your choice. Weight loss is not about magic, it's about finding the succesful combination for yourself, and Weight Watcher's does not have a monopoly on success. If you check out the TOPS.org website, most of it's features are open to anyone whether you're a member or not. TOPS groups will also allow you to attend a free meeting or two (so will WW), so you can try meetings and find the group you feel most comfortable in. Explore what TOPS has to offer and decide for yourself whether you find it a good value for the cost. Personally, for myself comparing WW and TOPS, even if it weren't for the money, TOPS came out ahead for me, so even if the cost were the same, I would pick TOPS. For my husband, he preferred WW, but by a very small margin. He didn't see WW as ten times better than TOPS, so TOPS still came out ahead for him, as it allowed both of us to join and leave us money to spend on the a gym membership or visits to the warm water therapy pool. We evaluated the gym membership and the pool visits the same way, and decided on the warm water therapy pool sessions. Money wasn't the only issue, but it was one of the issues. We're both on disability, so there are some choices that we couldn't make, even if we had wanted to. There is no way we could afford WW memberships and gym memberships for us both. We just don't have the money to do it. But it's not just an issue of the money. If we had the money, would we spend it? Only if we thought we were getting our money's worth, and while I like both TOPS and Weight Watcher's, I don't see WW as ten times as good as TOPS (in fact, I think TOPS comes out a little bit ahead for my needs), so TOPS would always be my choice. However, if you try TOPS and DO think that WW was ten times as good, and it was worth the expense (and you have the money to spend) then go back to WW.

Thank you to all of you again...I really appreciate it so much. I in no way want to poo-poo WW, but just trying to be realistic about it. To be honest, it is **quite** expensive, and I think the most valuable thing for me is the meetings. I am so grateful for the Core plan. I always knew that refined stuff was a problem for me ... my weight, health AND energy levels, but it took WW introducing me to this way of eating that got me really serious about it. And now a part of me wants to go further ... to further eliminate sugar and flour products ... but I still need the accountability piece of the weekly meeting.

Like many of you have said, I'll just have to check out the new plan. And also go to a TOPS meeting to see what it's all about. Thank you again!