I use about half each week but really try not to use any. It seems i do better by not using them. I mentioned that at the meeting last week and i wondered if that was a no no (LOL)
thanks

I don't think it's a no no. It's up to you to find out what works for you. Personally, I generally use all my points allowance and so far, I can still lose when I use them. If that slows down, I'll have to consider using fewer of them.

I do tend to think that the daily points allowance is the minimum you should eat each day and you do want to be careful not to eat too little, which can stall your loss. If you're exercising a lot, you may want to eat some of them. I've heard some people at my meeting say they eat the points they earn from exercise, but not the points allowance. And there's a woman in my meeting who says she's really hungry, so she works out to earn extra points for food. She earns ten activity points a day and eats every one of them. According to the rules, you're not supposed to eat more than 4 activity points per day, regardless of how many you earn, but she's lost almost 70 pounds doing it her way, so who's to say she's wrong?

I think it just goes to show you that you do what's healthy and do what works for you. That's how you're going to make this a program that you can live with for the rest of your life, not just another diet. If you're happy not eating your points and you feel good and you're losing, there's no reason to change that.

Josie

Last week our leader was talking about exercise and activity and she also said that the recommendation is no more than 4 pts. per day from exercise. If you are exercising only to get extra points to eat, then you're only tricking yourself (it would seem) and trying to find ways around being on a plan. I mean heck, if I wanted to, according to Core, I could sit around all day and eat salsa. It's not healthy, but it is Core.

It's OK if you don't use all 35 points..they are there as a safety net of sorts I guess...so that if you do exceed your point total fora day or decide you want something off-Core then you can eat it. That's the beauty of WW...the fact that you don't have to be deprived if you are making choices. My birthday is coming up and I know that I want to actually eat birthday cake and let my friends buy me afew drinks. So I'm going to try my best to not use any points in the days leading up to my party so that I have them to use. (Note I said TRY...isn't that always the challenge?)

Hope that helps.

First off there is no rule or recommendation to use only 4 a day. It is an average of 4 a day if you have not been active so you 1) don't over exercise and end up hurting yourself or 2) don't over exercise just to over eat or compensate for over eating. If you ear 10 in a day you can eat all 10.

As for the WeeklyPointsAllowance/FlexPoint they are optional but must find they lose better eating them.

Personally I am in the 22TPs a day but eat 24TPS + all my 3-4APs each day + all 35 FPs a week and lose. When I start dropping down from this I stall.

The majority of people can eat all their points and the the majority of the ones (yes there truly are some who can't use all their points) just get frightened when they see a small gain or maintain after 1 week of using all their points. They don't give their body time to adjust and realize this isn't just 1 time thing.

I did much better using little or no flex points or APs. It was just too much food for me.

My leader would disagree with you. He gave the woman I mentioned in our meeting a hard time for eating all 10 of her points every day. I never went back to check the getting started book to see if he was right because the odds of me earning 10 activity points per day are slim to none, so it's not an issue for me. (LOL). But he said that was the rule.

In any event, I've never been one for rigid rules. I'm more in the camp of the woman I mentioned, who said that it was working for her, so she didn't see a reason to do anything differently. I tend to rebel against strict rules so the more I make the plan my own, the more I'm likely to stick with it. In my book, as long as I'm eating healthfully and not on some goofy fad, and the weight's coming off at a pace I'm happy with, I don't care if the rule says x and I'm doing y, I'm gonna keep doing what works.

Josie

Josie, your leader may disagree but I have seen and read the information on APs from a leaders manual. My leader doesn't feel it is a 'secret' book but regularly shares it with meeting members. There is no limit. The thing is many people 'over estimate' their APs and that may be what he may be cautioning.

The rule is W/W would like people to work up to a minimum 21-28 APs a week (or an AVERAGE of 3-4 points). It does say in the new book to limit to an AVERAGE of 4 a day but that is it. It means that one day you could earn 10 one day 0 one day 2 one day 10, one day 1, one day 1, one day 1 for a total of 25 a week and you'd be able to eat each and every one of them on the day you earn them.

BTW I think many people do over estimate their points because unless you are doing many, many hour it is hard to earn 10 points a day - daily. This is something out of the ordinary in most cases (unless you are training for a marathon or an iron man competition) like a whole day hiking, etc. But if you are doing it on occasion then there is no harm in eating those extra points. It is all based on Basal Metabolic Rate:

How may calories do you burn in a day?

It's important to know your metabolic rate so you can balance enger in (the food you eat) with the energy out (how active you are). Because of different activity levels, each person's metabolic rate is different. Follow these steps to calculate the the amount of caloires you burn in a day. Remmeber, if you eat more than the calculated amount of calories, those extra calories eventually get stored as fat.

1. Convert your weight from pounds to kilograms by dividing by 2.2 (2.2 pounds = 1 kilogram). So, a 130-pound woman would weight 59 kilograms.

2. Women: Multiply the results of Step 1 by .9 (59 x .9 = 53). Men: Skip this stpe and go directly to Step 3.

3. Multiply the results of STep 2 (or Step 1 if you are a man) by 24. This gives you the minimal number of calories you need to survive, or your RMR (resting metabolic rate) (53 x 24 - 1272 calories).

4. To calculate the extra calories you need in order to perform your normal activites, you must calcualte a certain percentage of the RMR. Then add it to the RMR for that day's calorie needs. For example, a relatively sedentary day--say, a lazy Sunday spent watching TV or laying around--would require only a 20 percent increase in caloire expenditure (1272 x .20 = 254 extra calories). So, 254 added to 1272 equales 1526 calories.

Activity levels vary depending on how vigorous an activity it is and how long you're active. Here is a general rule of thumb based on nutritionists recommendations for energy.

Sedentary (sitting, standing, watching TV) = 20-30 percent
Light activity (housecleaning, golfing, garage work) = 50-60 percent
Moderate activity (skiing, bicycling, dancing) = 60-70 percent
Heavy activity (football,s occer, basketball, jogging) = 90-100 percent.

Additionally, low calorie diets (under 1200 for women and 1400 for men) are not the way to go because you don't get enough folic acid, magnesium and zinc along with putting your body in a perpetual state of starvation.

Here is another reason why many leaders encourage the use of eating all or most of your points:

A Tale of 2 W/W Friends (to show why eating less isn't always the best):

I have 2 close friends who started W/W back many years ago and followed 2 different views to the program.

My first friend ate only 18 point a day (keep in mind they started back with ranges with 1-2-3 Success) and only 18 points a day. She one thought it would be easier for her to follow a smaller number (even though she should have started in the 26-33 point range) and thought she couldn't eat anything above her MINIMUM a day in points. She made goal and when she tried to start adding points she could only eat a maximum of 20 points a day to maintain. Anything above that (including APs) seemed to make her gain. She eventually had to use a doctor, nutritionist, registered dietican and much help from her leader to deal with the gains while she started to add points back in. It has been over a year and she is now up to about (as of today 2/13/05) 28 points a day after many months of only 26 points a day.

My second friend ate 1 range higher than she was told to (for example when she was supposed to be 26-33 points she ate 28-35 points), she always ate all her points and any APs she earned. When she hit maintenance her MINIMUM points a day became between 35-40 plus all the 35 FPs/WPAs we have. She also at first thought she couldn't eat above her minimum for the day because she had a minor gain, maintain and then a small loss but after that she started losing.

The second friend had to adjust her metabolism and did it while she was losing and the first friend has to do the adjusting now and it is harder for both her body and her psyche.

Don't be afraid to adjust your body with your losses using your WPAs/FPs and APs by giving it a minimum of 2-3 weeks....a month is better. One thing here is that there are some who truly cannot use all their points but the majority fi they would give it a good chance to adjust their metabolism would/could/and should be able to use their points.

And one more thing here is some approximations put out by W/W on what the calories = points are:
20 = 1150
21 = 1200
22 = 1250
23 = 1300
24 = 1350
25 = 1400
26 = 1450
27 = 1500
28 = 1550
29 = 1600
30 = 1650
31 = 1700
32 = 1750
33 = 1800
34 = 1850
35 = 1900

in general terms (it can be a bit more or less depending on the fat and fiber intake) however these do not include the 200-250 a day that W/W built into the program for free veggies? As you can see for an even low active person 18 points a day (1050 + 200/250 = 1250-1300) is just very, very minimum. If you look at Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) many of us need to be much higher than that. My next part will be how to determine how much you burn. If you don't factor in activity that will be your BMR needed to just lay, breathe and have your heart pump your blood.

From Page 16 of the Weight Watchers Getting Started Week 1 Booklet (verbatim):

"Keep in mind...Stick to your daily POINTS Target to keep your metabolism going, to carry out bsic bodily functions, and to lose weight at a safe and healthy rate. Eating below your daily POINTS Target on occasion is OK, but you should not go below a daily POINTS Target of 20."

And if you follow a Points Pie (I'll post in a minute) you find that if you are truly eating balanced there is not reason you should ever fall below 20. W/W revamped their program when a study about BMR revealed that 18/19 points a day was way too low to keep a person's metabolism from slowing down. You say you can get under 23 point a day (I'll post a story called Tale of 2 W/W Friends in a minute also) is because you have slowed your metabolism down by 'starving' (for lack of a better term) by eating such low points in an effort to lose.

Points Pies

Balanced (under 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 8-9 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 6-7 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 0-3 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 2-3 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

20-28 points a day

Higher Protein (under 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 5-6 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 9-11 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 0-1 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 2-4 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

20-28 points a day

Higher Carb (under 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 9-10 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 5-7 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 1-3 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 1-2 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

20-28 points a day

-----

Balanced (over 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 11 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 10 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 3-4 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 2-3 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

30-34 points a day

Higher Protein (over 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 8 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 12 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 2-3 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 4-5 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

30-34 points a day

Higher Carb (over 250 pounds)

Complex Carbs/Grain Based Foods – 13 points a day
Protein-rich Foods – 8 points a day
Fruits and Veggies – 2-4 points a day
Fats, added sugars – 3 points a day
Milk and Milk Products – 4-6 points a day

30-34 points a day

I don't use my flex points or the additional points I get from exercising. I just stick to my 26 points for the day. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I just feel like if you're exercising then you're defeating the purpose of eating what you lost back. Just my opinion.

Julie

Usually for the majority of people if you don't eat those extra points as you call them (they are not extra they are part of the program and W/W wouldn't give them to you if you aren't allowed to use them...remember they are in the business to make money off our weight loss...if you don't lose you quit and they lose money) you need those points to lose. Look at my post about Basal Metabolic Rate and it should help explain the science behind it.

In a very general though 1 food point is about 50 calories and 1 ActivityPoint is about 100 calories burned. So you can see there will always be a deficit with eating APs. Remember these are 2 very general statements as a food point ranges from 25-110 calories based on fat and fiber and an AP is based on 3 factors -- intensity, current weight, time done.

This may be a major factor why you have (based on your other post) stalled in your weight loss...you aren't eating enough.

One more thing I will bring up is:

W/W started the points program with ranges (with 1-2-3 Success/10% difference the ranges had a 7 point spread but the minimum a day was 2 less than now...with WinningPoints it was a 5 point spread). So these 'extra' points as some people called them are not really extra. They always have been part of the program. The program allowed us to bank what we didn't eat between our minimum and maximum for use later in the week. What W/W did with FlexPoints/TurnAround was give us what we could have banked up front so we could use them early in the week if we needed or wanted to. Many times people were doing what they called 'reverse banking' which is the same concept as FlexPoints.

W/W (and other medical research on weight loss) showed that the low end was not good for the body as it was too low.

So Kelly you're saying that I should eat the extra points from exercising? Maybe that might be a possible problem that I'm having that I don't eat enough. Thanks!

drbjaded, Yes that is what I am saying. If you have only been eating your TPs and doing all that exercise your body thinks it is starving and holding on to the fat you have because it is in that mode.