I was reading a book recently that talked about this concept. "Unrestrained" eaters are those people who rely on external food cues to tell them when they have had enough to eat while "restrained" eaters are those who rely on internal cues such as fullness. Its an interesting concept and one that I've been thinking about a lot lately.

There is ALOT of evidence that external cues rather than hunger impact food consumption. One famous study gave subjects a large or a medium bucket of popcorn for free during a movie. The free popcorn was stale and 5 days old! Those people who were given a large bucket of popcorn ate ~40% more of the nasty stale stuff than people given a smaller size. Other research has shown the same thing, if you are given a larger portion most people will eat a larger amount, rather than eating to satisy hunger.

I know that even now after losing a lot of weight that I RARELY (in fact, almost never) leave food. I eat what I'm served and just make it a point to only get food in packages or from places that serve reasonable serving sizes. I'm still a "unrestrained" eater in that I don't follow my internal cues. I think it is probably a function of my childhood when I'd get a guilt trip for not eating everything on the table and told "if you want dessert you have to clean your plate". I always feel guilty "wasting" food and while I should take half of restaurant food home with me for another meal, I will just as often eat it and eat more than I need (beyond satiation).

For the long term maintainers, have you been able to learn how to follow your internal hunger cues and leave excess food? Was anybody previously an "unrestrained" eater and moved into the "restrained" category? I think it is hard to get over these psychological traits regarding food. Right now, I still make it a point to try to go to places that serve reasonable sizes so I won't overeat.

I agree with Meg, I have no natural OFF button.

Matt --

Another lesson from cognitive psych on the same lines as the popcorn study is that the shape of the glass matters. People think there is more juice in a tall thin glass than in a short fat glass, even if it's the same amount of liquid. Not surprisingly, when they drink a given volume of juice out of a tall thin glass, they are less likely to have seconds than if they drink the same amount out of a short fat glass. And, most dieters have heard of the size-of-plate "trick", although it's a "trick" backed by cognitive science.

If you're interested in these topics, I recommend Brian Wansink's "Mindless Eating." He's a PhD (in psych, I believe) on the faculty at Cornell, if I have the last name wrong.

(Obviously, there's a physiological component to hunger and satiety as well. Hormones, number of fat cells, insulin sensitivity, lean body mass, etc. etc.)

//b. strong,
Kim

I watch my BF eat all the time and if he is full, he stops eating. Last night I watched him leave a little spoonful on his plate, less than 1 tablespoon of his meal , cuz he was full. If that was me, I would eat the whole thing cuz in my mind I would be saying "Why leave that little spoonful behind? Just finish it". That's the reason I have to weigh and measure and calculate.

I hate to think of the day we will start to live together because I know he will ridicule me when he sees me with my foodscale, calculator and pencil BEFORE I eat anythiing.

Another interesting food point - I work in foodservice, and they used to train us on the 'middling effect'. Most people will drift towards the middle size of an item like fries or a drink, just because it is the middle size. Small = too little, large = too much. Over the years with the addition of king size at the restaurant where I used to work the middle size because the large, because small was the 'kids size'. I watched the same people over the years move up a size in side item, and eat every bit of it every time, when a year before they were perfectly content with the next size down. Same thing with the introduction of the triple burger - now the double is the middle, and the sales went up dramatically. Weird.

For me, I tend to eat whatever is on my plate when I fix it myself. So I self limit. When I go out it is always either or - I eat every bite of it or almost none of it. I can't really self regulate there, so smaller starting portions are better for me. I will keep eating well past the point of full.

I wish I knew. One if my resolutions this year is to always leave 1/3 to 1/2 my meal at a restaurant. I know 1/2 is enough but I always want to eat all of it. I have yet to do this.

I am another whose internal cues are broken. Even after 4 years of time to reset themselves to something approximating "normal", they have not. I've resigned myself that eating according to my body's cues is not an option for me if I want to maintain the weight I'm currently maintaining. And so I use a ton of external factors to decide what to eat, when to eat, amounts to eat, etc. Though I've spent a lot of time wishing that I did have those types of internal cues, it was ultimately good for me to let them go and move onto a kind of self-monitoring that is actually effective for me.

My husband uses internal cues, it is fascinating. Watching him eat straight out of a bag of chips but somehow eats 10 chips and stops. My internal cues are majorly broken. The only way I can maintain my weight loss or lose more is by telling myself exactly what to eat and when. I know Meg is further out but I've been maintaining at least a 100 lb loss for 4 years and and maintaining a 150 lb loss for 3 years. It hasn't gotten any easier.

Another one chiming in to recommend "Mindless Eating," which recounts numerous experiments & makes suggestions based on the results.

I got the audio book & listened to half of it in my car during my four-&-a half-hour drive Upstate for Thanksgiving. You better believed that I arrived for Thanksgiving dinner somewhat chastened, with some of the book's findings fresh in my mind.

SAEF, I just have to ask why you were told not to use conditioner?? LOL

As for the mindless eating, I definitely have that issue too. I started dieting in early July and it's still a battle every day with that. I get bored and want to eat anything and everything, especially at night when all my kids are in bed.....I also struggle with feeling "full enough". I don't seem to be happy unless I've ate enough to make myself feel sick LOL

Part of the reason I became morbidly obese in the first place was not being able to hear the internal cues telling me I'd eaten enough. I ate past that point EVERY SINGLE DAY...
While I physically can't eat the same amount as I used to, I would still eat a lot more than is required to maintain my weight if I didn't stop myself. I've taken to using smaller bowls and plates so that at least my plate is full, but even then when the plate is empty a lot of the time my stomach still wants more, although I know I've had plenty for my needs.
I really wish I could hear the internal cues and feel satisfied, but I don't think that's ever going to happen.

I read this awesome book from the 80s call EAT WHAT YOU WANT!
Lol i picked it up for 2$ and thought I had nothing to loose to read it. Its psychologist and nutrionist that in the 80 got together and studied our habits. In a nutshell they find out that if you restrain yourself and dont eat what you want, you end up eating more of the replacement food then you would of in reality.

For example, they had a subject that was craving fries and eggs. Sure its weird and its full of fat BUT they had a craving. So in controlling temselves they eat one egg and a small portion of fries enjoying every bite. then then felt more satisf and did not eat til the next meal. the following week the subject was craving chocolate cake. They told them to not eat it and eat something healthier. Without noticing the subject ended up with a huge sald full of dressing and cheese when usually that same subject does not eat salads like that.

anyways the book is really interesting because it basically says, if you crave sugar have a little but enjoy it, your body will be satisfied and it wont show on the scale (of course this is for maintainers ONLY and you go to have selfcontrol)

So after reading it and after my diet I started eating the things that my body is craving (and in the book ther eis a whole chapter on what solicites you and what you actually want.. if you see a burger on tv and then crave it, you do not need it and a sample glass of water would get rid of the cravings), how ot know I need it vs I want it and how to control myself. That book changed my life!

I never feel like i am missing anything food wise and NEVER ever over eat because I eat what I want, just a little bi tof it.

Anyways the theory is hard to explain and im sure half of this forum would be sckeptical but once you read it it makes a lot of sense. if you eat what you want, youd ont compensate with something else.

I don't have the internal cues either, I have to do it actively by putting a smaller amount on my plate to start with. But part of it is definitely also my own childhood conditioning at the dinner table, where the children were punished for leaving anything on the plate -- even though our parents served us and we had no choice about how much was put on the plate! The whole "no-waste" thing was really drilled in and I have that strongly internalized.

Last week I left an end of a piece of bread on my plate, and I was so ridiculously proud of it I briefly considered posting it as an NSV. And then I was really embarrassed because dude, what would a normal person think of that?

And the even more sad thing is that I couldn't stand to put it in the trash because that was "wasting it", and then I got a brain and threw it outside for the birds.

I still find it painful to "leave food on my plate"
Today, I ordered a chocolate truffle for a treat and it felt terrible to pass it on to a friend when I was only 1/3rd done.
This morning, I accidentally poured out almost half a bottle of ranch dressing to eat with celery and I ate it all. I don't even know why I did it. Celery soaked in ranch tastes pretty brutal.

I used to eat a pint of ice cream almost nightly. My "cue" was finishing the package!

When I started my regemin, I still had one pint in the freezr. I debated what to do, I wondered if I'd pig out when it was opened.

But I ended up stretching it to last over a week. I came to realize that another "cue" was that it only takes about 3 spoonfuls to chill my mouth. (The *flavor* is not very strong after that point. Instead, you are enjoying the texture and coldness of the ice cream.)

Since I "wanted" to enjoy more of the flavor, I convinced myself that I "wanted" to eat the rest in the future. So there may be some room to reset ones' cues on things.