And this is especially crazy because I didn't even DO Weight Watchers.

I'm a calorie counter, and when Weight Watchers changed their policies and points to allow for "Zero Point" vegetables, it messed with my entire way of thinking. I've always counted veggies, and have gotten to where I love and adore them. Seriously...I'll put away more than a pound of yellow squash and green beans in a weekend, all alone. Roasted broccoli? Yum. Cauliflower? Deeeeeelish.

And I've counted those calories diligently. Until Weight Watchers effectively said...hey...people on this program can eat as much of some things as they want and they don't count (at least that's what it seems like - may not be the case.)

So I look up the "Zero Point" veggies and my favorites are listed: broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, green beans (), pumpkin(!), summer squash (swoon!) and winter squash.

Now as I'm counting calories during my weekend veggie binges, I'm starting to fudge a little (or a lot) since an entire weight loss empire says these things don't count against you anymore.

Am I crazy? I mean...really?

The calories they give you without Fruits and Veggies are about 1100 (for me anyway, 29 points.) I usually end up with about 200 calories of F&V, even my beloved butternut squash is only 160 calories for 2 cups.

But really, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans - have very few calories.

And WW does not say "binge on these because they are free." They say to eat to satisfaction, not until stuffed.

And to make it worse, now Fruit is "free". Yep, just saw it a mail ad I received. Fruit is now 0-points. (But carbs are more points.)

You have to remember though, WW is a program that people pay for...and they (WW) want people to pay for as long as possible...so they have to expand the calorie boundaries if they want to make a profit.

Mindi....first of all...you look amazing...congrats!! What WW is explaining to us is that all calories are not created equal and the way our body processes food is different. The one thing they keep saying is 100 calorie apple is WAY different than a 100 calorie snack pack. If you eat the apple, your body has to WORK to digest it and it's full of fiber so it will last longer. If you eat that same 100 calories in a snack pack, you'll be hungry again soon.

Make sense??

Yes, on the new Weight Watcher system, fruits and veggies are considered a free food. However, it also says that you should not eat any more of these foods than you absolutely need to stay satisfied and full. They are there to keep you from splurging on something like cake or ice cream.

You also have to remember that this is something designed for people on weight watchers, and WW also has good health guidlines to follow that take up a lot of the daily points. So when this plan is followed exactly, the extra fruits and veggies don't really factor in too many extra calories.

I DO think that fruits and veggies are wonderful, and no, I don't think they will do anything to stall your weightloss when enjoyed in sensible quantities. Obviously too much of anything will make you fat, but it would take a LOT more squash than cake to do the job.

So my advice? Allow yourself a certain amount of fruits and veggies per day, (perhaps 4-5 servings?) for free. If you feel like you begin to eat them just for the sake of eating them though- it would probably be a good idea to start counting.

I use an exchange plan, and for the most part, I don't limit veggies. For all my other food groups, I consider my other exchange alottments "maximums," and my veggie exchanges as "minimums."

Even 25 calories (the average calorie count of most veggie exchanges) can add up, but 10 servings of veggies is only 250 calories. In most cases, that's 10 cups of raw veggies, or 5 cups of cooked veggies. That's a lot of veggies for very few calories. If you want to "not count" anything, non-starchy veggies aren't a bad choice.

Weight Watcher's has now switched to free fruit, as well. I know from personal experience that would never work for me. I've even stalled weight loss on all fruit/veggie diets. I love fruit, and can easily eat hundreds of calories in fruit daily. Sure 5 apples are a lot healthier than a Big Mac, but the calories are about the same.

Your results will tell you if you need to change your methods. If you lose well and make better choices by not counting veggies or any other very low calorie food, then go for it. If you find your weight loss stalls because you're massively overeating low-cal foods, then you make a change.

Trial and error, it's really all we've got.

Well, keep in mind that the reason WW made veggies zero points was to convince people to choose a veggie over a nutrient-lacking snack food. Looks like that was never your problem so you don't need their solution.

They haven't expanded the calorie boundaries. And fruit is "free to satisfaction" not "free for all until you are stuffed on 10 bananas a day."

I don't think they want the same people paying forever, they want results and referrals and people (like me) who say "This plan is amazing. I'm consistently losing weight, feeling better and not hungry!"

I do go to WW and the fact is that the points formula factors in 200 calories of fruit and 9 vegetable servings per day so they are not free. There is a difference between 0 points and free. 0 points means as some amount, you have to account for them. WW is not in the business to keep us coming as long as possible. They don't have to. They have been successful for nearly 50 years. I got my lifetime WW status in the 1970s and have gone free since then. You really need to know about the program before you pick bits and pieces out.

I couldn't have said it any better myself!

On the "old" points plan (momentum), I found myself reaching for a fiber bar (worth 2 pts then), instead of an apple or clementine or banana (worth 1, 1 and 2 pts respectively). On the new points plus plan, I eat more fruits and veggies (but rarely more than the recommended intake) to help satisfy my want for a snack as well as a hungry tummy. Don't get me wrong, that fiber bar is great, but would I rather have that for 4 points + or an apple and a clementine for 0 points +?!

I guess I stand to be corrected. When I hear 0-points, that would mean 0-points to most people. Seems weird that they say 0-points, but it's not really? How weird is that?

When I was a Weight Watcher member for most of the 90's You could only be a "free" member if you maintained your weight within 6 pounds of your goal....if you gained above that buffer you were not a free member until you lost it. Are you saying that even when you gained back to your top weight they let you come for free? WOW.

how did you get the dancing carrot, I love it, I am a newbie, and don't know how to do the calculator....o:

No, WW lifetime members are free as long as they weigh in once per month at no more than 2 pounds over their goal. If you go more than 2 pounds over your goal, you have to pay until you get back down.

MindiV, if you're going to count calories, count calories. "WW says this doesn't count" is not license for you to ignore the calories.

A cup of broccoli is 90 calories in my book, and that's too many for me to ignore when I'm counting.

Jay

Couldn't have said it better.

It's not like we can just binge out on fruit and veggies all day now. It's moderation. They tell you very clearly that if you eat past satisfaction and binge on them you will hinder your weight loss.

Also not all veggies are free. Low carb veggies are free and things like potatoes are worth points. All fruits fresh, or frozen/canned in their own juices are free.

By the way, QuilterinVA, what does lifetimer mean? I hear that all the time but how do you get lifetime WW status?