UPDATED AGAIN--Scroll down.

What look is that, you may ask? Well, it's the look my trainer got on his face when, after having been training with him twice a week for three weeks, and going to step class twice a week, and doing cardio in between times, I told him my weight had not changed. Not at all. It's that puzzled look...

And then he asked how many calories per day I was eating, and I told him an average of 1350 per day. He got even a more puzzled look...



So then he worked out a meal plan for me, fed in all my stats, including my age, gender, height, weight, being "Average" in terms of workouts, and said that I was burning 2100 calories a day and could eat 1750 per day to meet my weight loss goal.



Meg, if you're around--what do you think? Should I tell him about the metabolic challenges of "reduced obese" people?

I think I'm not going to go up to 1750... Because I would rather not gain 5 pounds in the next 12 weeks.

What do you folks think? And has anyone else had this experience?

Jay

I think you should try upping the calories for a week or two and seeing how it works. If you notice you are gaining, you can go back to what you're doing now. BUT with all of the calories you are burning from your workouts, he might be right. Maybe your body needs more fuel.

Jay, mileage varies for everyone, obviously - and there are going to be a billion physical differences between us. I want to share my experience only because I DO think it is possible for some losers in some situations to eat more.

For months on end, my trainer and her husband were telling me the same thing. Anytime I voiced a concern over weight loss, I was blown off because I do not eat enough by their voracious bodybuilding standards. I didn't think they could possibly understand, never having been 130 pounds overweight like I was. Yeah, I've seen that incredulous look time and again. It's almost like they thought I was lying about what I consume - that it was impossible.

It frustrated me to no end, because they couldn't possibly see it from my perspective.

Recently, after going through some very slow weight loss and nearing goal anyhow, I decided to give their calorie recommendations a shot, figuring it couldn't hurt anything. 'What the heck,' I figured, 'I've lost 130+ pounds, gaining 5 from experimenting isn't a big deal, I know how to lose them.'

I took those babies up to 1600-2100 (averaging 1900) in quality calories (upping from averaging 1400) a day, and continued losing, albeit slowly, but losing once more. Yeah, it's slow weight loss with the inevitable fluctuations - but the overall trend shows downwards. I do think it is possible for some and that trying it isn't going to result in all the weight gained back - or as I've seen you type - result in my 'being struck fat' overnight.

That was a pretty miraculous discovery to me - that I really could eat more, as long as I'm careful about what I'm eating. I could have cried!

This will obviously vary for everyone as will the results. You've been at the losing game for some time and I consider you an expert around these parts. I'm full aware that you are very in tune with your body and know without a doubt what will cause you to gain weight, your caloric limits and that his plan is unreasonable for you and your needs. I just wanted to throw my experience out there in case it might benefit someone else.

But the irking part? I did what they said and they still tell me to eat more. Someday soon (really soon I hope) I'll try that, until I get to goal I'm fine. Seems like their solution to everything is to eat - I've discovered firsthand in the past that eating is so not the solution to everything.

It's not true that eating less equals losing more- now that doesn't mean go out and eat 3000 calories a day, but besides weight you have to factor in how much you work out also.

Do it for a week, I bet you'll see the scale come down.

Are you also drinking enough water?

Jay's referring in her post to how the formerly obese can't necessarily follow the same rules of nutrition as someone who has always been a 'normal' weight.

It's common someone who has lost a significant amount of weight after being obese just cannot maintain on the calories of someone who has never battled weight. Scary, but it's commonplace their metabolism is lowered.

Interesting...

Every time I raise my calories above a certain level, my weight goes up. I was at 147 until October of last year, then I popped up to my current weight.

I am afraid to try eating 1750 average per day for two weeks. I've found that going up is easy, but getting back down is not...

But I'd like to hear some more opinions, please!

Jay

Jay, the non-answer is that we're all different -- we're all "laboratories of one" -- and there isn't any way to predict what will happen to your unique body if you change your calories. What happens to ME isn't necessarily what will happen to you and vice versa.

With that being said, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that eating more makes me gain weight and eating less makes me lose. My body responds exactly as it's supposed to to the energy in, energy out equation. If I create a calorie deficit, I lose fat and the larger the deficit, the more fat I lose. If I create a calorie surplus, my body stores fat.

After almost seven years of maintaining, I have a very good sense of where my maintenance calories and exercise are. And I've certainly learned from sad experience what happens if I eat over my maintenance calories. Yep, I "shock my metabolism" into storing fat! Honestly, I'd love to be one of those who can increase calories and not gain weight but it just doesn't work that way for me.

But I've certainly read enough of others' experiences to believe it may be true for them, despite being counterintuitive. Sadly, I know that with total certainty that increasing calories is what will make me obese again. But perhaps it's something you want to play with to find out what will happen. I don't think you can do too much damage in a short time, though I'd pull the plug on the experiment at say, the five pound gained mark.

I really sympathize with what you say about how easy it is to gain and how hard to lose. A lot of it has to do with our age, I think. For those of us over 50, our metabolisms are dramatically slower due to hormonal and aging issues (I get hypothyroidism too, lucky me!) My maintenance calories are around what you're eating a day, coupled with an average of 90 minutes of exercise. If I want to drop a few holiday pounds, I have to go to around 1000 calories to get the scale to move. It defies every calculator but it is what it is. And after seven years, I really do know what the reality of my body is.

So my humble opinion is ... go ahead and experiment -- carefully. But don't be surprised at what your reality might be. Our bodies don't lie. They tell us what our maintenance calories and weight loss calories are far better than any calculator can.

Keep us updated!

Since August I have been stuck at 153-156.

The last week and a half I have added a carb serving with dinner. Nothing else changed---except for maybe an extra two desserts this week (added).

I'm now ranging 150-152. So eating more made me drop finally, maybe or maybe it's a coincidence. But my only big change is that carb serving with dinner. Who knows?


I'm not sure the answer is always to eat fewer calories. At least not for me.

Several thoughts.
1. It could be some water weight since you are working more muscles harder and in different ways.
2. If you are going to up the calories (which works for some - never worked for me), try upping 100 calories for a week and see what happens.
3. What "balance" of calories are you eating? With your extra workouts, maybe more protein is in order. Also, what are you eating before and after your workout? Make sure you are getting quality carb/protein calories right after a tough session with your trainer.
There was a good article in USAToday yesterday on the topic.
4. Keep up your water intake.

I know it is frustrating, but I'm betting that once the scale starts moving in the right direction again, you will have a nice loss.

Congrats on your program - you are definitely inspiring me to kick up mine a notch

All right.

I opened up my Fitday. I let it set my calorie burn based on actual lifestyle parameters, rather than just setting it for totally sedentary. And it says I burn 1907 cals a day. That's not the 2100 the trainer's software says.

And to lose 3 pounds in a month, I can eat 1535 cals a day.

Gosh, that is so scary to me... It seems so high...

I think I'm going to alter my nutrition parameters also. I've been using 30/40/30 protein/carb/fat, and I'm changing that to 30/45/25.

I'm going to try this for a month and see if I go down 3 pounds. No matter what, I'll stay with that average calorie value for a month.

Because--what if I'm undereating, and I could be eating more! Jeez, that would be sad... And I might as well try it because what I've been doing isn't getting me anywhere.

Thanks, everyone, for your wise words. I'll report back...

Jay

FYI I'm not a calorie counter per se but when you work your body you need to fuel it and eating less is not necessarily the answer.

Weight Watchers plan does this in allow the person to utilize points for the exercise they do. It came down from much weight loss research. Actually many weight loss plans are based on the same concept.

It is very possible your body isn't getting the nutritional needs that it needs to release the stored fat by eating only 1400 a day. I suggest trying to eat a bit more and see if that breaks it.

I know that when I eat my activity points in W/W I lose much more consistently than when I don't.

I've had both experiences. There was a point where I ramped up my exercise--I had just switched to my current, much more intense trainer and had also just added intervals to my cardio program. I was eating 1300 calories per day and with the increased exercise, my weight loss stalled and I was hungry all the time. Finally, after several weeks of this, someone here at 3FC suggested I increase my calories, so I added 100 to my daily total. The result was that 1) I wasn't hungry all the time anymore (what a relief--how different the world looks when you aren't hungry) and 2) I started losing weight again.

I've also been on the opposite side of that story. I've never been obese, but, even so, I really don't lose weight if my calories are much over 1400 per day, even though, by all calculators, I ought to be able to eat more given the amount of exercise I do. My trainer is also frequently after me to eat more and mostly I just ignore him. He's not a nutritionist; his expertise is in exercise not diet.

But I don't want to discourage you from increasing your calories. It definitely worked me at least once. It's worth a shot, because, as you say, how sad if you could be eating more and aren't. If it doesn't work, you can always take them back down. I think a one-month trial is a great plan.

Thanks BlueToBlue!

Jay

OK, here's an update!

I put in my new goal of 1585 cals, and it's now been two weeks. My commitment is for a month to see whether I lose 3 pounds, since that's what FitDay calculates I can lose. (This is based on a burn of over 1900 a day.)

It really does seem to me like I'm eating a lot, all the time, and actually, I'm having trouble getting up to that goal. My average daily calories comes out to 1485, so I'm still undereating on the plan! But, my low days are higher than they used to be, at least.

As you can see from my ticker, I am now down OVER 3 pounds in 2 weeks. I still have 2 weeks to go, so it should be interesting to see what my loss for the month comes out to be.

Jay

Hey Jay - I was thinking of you and this very thread last night while preparing dinner, wondering how it was going for you - hoping it was going well and thinking I should bump it up today. I recently bumped my calories up again, which is just shocking to me.

And here you are. And it's going well so far! Awesome! I hope the next two weeks work out as well, be sure to let curious minds know.