Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this, and what you do when it happens:

There's a couple I know who have been doing the Atkins diet for several years now; they started about the time I joined WW.

Ever since, they harp constantly on how great it is. At parties (even those I give) they point out what's "on" or "off" their plan, in great detail. At meetings, they bring greasy cheese/bacon concoctions that they try to get everyone to eat, bragging that it has no carbs (yeah, and only about 30 points...). That doesn't bother me, as I've learned ways to deal with food pushers.

They have both actually gotten larger on this "diet" (they lose and gain, repeatedly) while I've lost over 100 pounds on WW in the same time period, steadily, and kept it off. They know I did WW, because they asked, but they act like I need to follow Atkins with them. (I've been at goal since last summer.)

It's only mildly annoying, and I don't have to be around them constantly, so I'm not really seeking advice on how to deal with it. (I just smile and say "Oh, how interesting" or something, and try to change the subject. I know I'd never change their minds, nor would I try.)

I'm just very curious whether other Weight Watchers have stories like this.

Anyone care to share?

i know exactly what you mean.

my friend just found the atkins diet. he says i should be using it. he finds it liberating to eat a dozen eggs for breakfast (ick).

he insists that i should be on this diet, because atkins has all this proof that it is a new way of losing weight, and that i need all the help i can get.

then he sent me some info from amazon on all the atkins books, and he gets a cut or something of whatever i buy from his link. sigh. it feels like an amway or jehovah witness sell.

granted, the diet it good for him, cuz he's hypoglycemic and now he's not binging on sugar for every meal, so that's good.

If those Atkins pushers are not losing weight, they're not on the Atkins diet. They're on the "we want to be on the Atkins diet but we don't actually do it" diet. If they happen to be those unfortunates whose metabolism makes weight loss extremely difficult... the "official" Atkins diet has answers for that, and I quite suspect they aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

My weight:
January 2, 2002: 230
March 17, 2002: 205
Some day: 185, here I come!

And I've been eating big greasy cheeseburgers right and left.

How could anyone who had weight loss this easy (and yes, it was really easy, think how filling and satisfying cheeseburgers are) keep silent about what did it for them?

I am on the Atkins diet--the real one. I feel great and have more physical energy than before.

I just did some blood tests (cholesterol and such) and in a couple of months I will have them done again. It will be quite interesting to see how they change. I wish I'd done them before I started.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, the Amazon percentage thing is simply to save you 10% on any of the items a friend of yours already bought. The person who sends them to you gets nothing in return, just the satisfaction of potentially saving a friend some money (they still paid 100% for their items). Be grateful they thought of you, not upset!

--- added 3-20-2002 ---

I double-checked and must repose corrected... the sender of the Amazon 10% off thing does get credit towards future purchases. Nonetheless... I have no problem if a friend sends me an offer to get 10% off a purchase, especially if they think I would be interested!

well, if you want a weight loss buddy, i can put you two in touch. it sounds like you are both very motivated with the atkins diet.

it's just not for me.

good luck.

When someone does well with a weight loss plan, I understand that they want to share their success stories. That's great. We all need to share our successes. Those people are not 'pushers'. The 'pushers' are the ones who think it's THEIR way or NO way.

I've known 'pushers' who just won't believe that it's possible that any other plan could work. It gets to a pont where I feel like they have no real respect for me, and for what I choose to do with my body.

Every one of us is different, and what works for you may not work for me. It may be because of differing metabolisms, lifestyles, or just plain personal preferences.

The point is, do what's best for you! We're all in this together, and judging each other for how we take care of ourselves doesn't help anyone.

My real friends and I can talk about our different diet choices, compare notes, and celebrate our individual successes. We share mutual respect, and don't have time for judgments.

Good luck dealing with your 'pushers'. If they've found something that works for them, that's great! Hang in there, and do what works for you.

Trixiepup, thanks for that story; I think we both have felt a little put down by these friends, who, like Mary said, think it's their way or no way. It helps to know someone else has been in a similar situation!

Bereft, major kudos to you on your loss! You are doing so well; best of luck on your weight loss journey. I apologize to you; I shouldn't have mentioned *which* plan my friends were pushing, because I certainly don't want to criticize whatever works best for you! (Mary is right on target. And I didn't stop to think that the Weight Watchers forums are read by many people on other plans.)

Mary, wow, are you a writer? You express yourself so eloquently. I agree 100% that we should celebrate each other's successes, and like you, my (other) friends and I do that all the time. These "pushers," though, *do* make me feel like they don't respect me or my choices, as you said. Plus they constantly imply that I'm still overweight. (Guess that's why I wrote about them here, to sort out my feelings about the situation.) I just wish I hadn't mentioned which plan they were on, since that's really irrelevant, and may have hurt someone else's feelings. I've never criticized their plan in front of them, but like Trixiepup, I can't buy into it either because I know it won't work for me.

Thanks, everyone, for your input and thoughts on this; this discussion has been a real eye-opener!
Regards,
Jan

Bereft do what you feel is best for you. Personnally I never lost on Atkins and my sister ended up with severe renal problems caused by the Atkins diet.

Dr. Atkins in my not so humble opinion is a bag of hot air. You stated correctly that it is a DIET and not a lifestyle change. It does a temporary fix which is what diets do. If you were to add carbs (which by the way is the brains fuel) then eventually you'll gain back.

My starting with weight with W/W was 203.6 and I'm done to 143.

It's not what you eat but how much you eat. Pure, plain and simple. What most people do is not eat balanced thus not feel satisified and sometimes even causing weight loss to stall.

You asked who can say they lost this easy and enjoyed what they liked. I can say I did!!!!!!! I indulge and enjoy greasy cheeseburgers WITH A BUN; french fries, wings, pizza, ice cream, steaks, cheese, and the list goes on and on. I don't every feel deprived (like I did on Atkins because I couldn't have my bread or potatoes).

I also felt lethargic and my breath and body odor was very bad when I was on Atkins.

Enjoy your DIET and I'll enjoy my LIFESTYLE CHANGE.

IMOHO: I've felt "pushed" upon by well-meaning family member who is diabetic and needs to watch her carb intake, and lose 100 pounds. The problem is, she will NOT give up carbs, and is looking for a quick fix diet. She is now pushing Atkins on me, knowing that I'm doing well with WW.

I feel bad, and wonder if many flock to this diet thinking eating slabs of bacon and cheeseburgers will miraculously melt off years of food intake abuse.

If Atkins works for you, that's great and I'm sure many are eating their proteins healthfully. But I also fear many go on this diet thinking it'll be "Cheeseburgers in Paradise".

We all have choices, and I wish anyone losing weight finds the path (and true will) that will lead them to goal.

Kelly, kudos to you on that terrific loss! And I agree, the WW plan is a lifestyle change. For me, that was the only way to lose the weight permanently, to change my behavior in so many different areas: cooking, eating out, dealing with holidays and emotional eating, exercising ...

MN_chick, I agree, many who "push" a diet on others are really well-meaning people who have found something that they want to share. (I'll have to remind myself of that the next time these friends start in on me!) I hope your family member is successful on her program. And congrats to you for doing so well on WW! You're so right, it does take true will and determination, but as you've already found out, it is SO worth it!

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question! I think I can deal with this situation better now.

Regards,
Jan

MN_chick, Your family member needs to be ULTRA careful about following Atkins. I am Type 2 diabetic and want to point out that although carbs raise glucose readings, they are ESSENTIAL to prevent kidney disease in diabetic persons. Protein diets make the kidneys work too hard and cause kidney disease, or if the person already has kidney disease (as in my case), will cause the persons disease to progress. I've read that some doctors prescribe a protein diet for Type 2 diabetics, but the American Diabetes Association recommends a balanced diet with nutirtion obtained from all food groups. Not preaching, just mentioning!

Now for the flip side -- my 55 y.o. brother started Atkins last fall after gaining 50 lbs in 25 years. He also started working out and weight training and lost 30 lbs, yet is the same "measurement" size as 50 lbs ago. He build up muscle while losing on Atkins and can now wear jeans he kept from his trimmer days. He slowly added carbs back, according to the Atkins diet plan, and now eats nutritionally. He never eats sweets though. Said they set him off so he is staying away from them. I should mention, he was under his doctor's care while on Atkins. Also, my neighbor lost 35 lbs. on Atkins over 3 years ago and has not gained back a single pound. She eats nutritionally now, AND she continues to walk 4 miles 5 times a week.

So to each his own -- whatever works long-term and you and your doctor consider it's a healthy way of eating!

I'd be interested in more detail about the renal problems your sister experienced. Would you mind elaborating?

I could accuse just as easily that WW is just a DIET and not a LIFESTYLE, but you wouldn't agree... and I don't agree with your accusation, either. This is a lifestyle change for me. I plan to eat this way for the REST of my life. I don't crave carbs, and I feel great.

My opinion is also not so humble. I've studied the science of all this for a long time.

Glucose is used by the brain and every other cell in the body. You must not know, though, that the body produces glucose even if you eat no carbohydrates! Fat and protein are converted to whatever is needed by the body (and carbohydrates are converted the other way to fat just fine, too). Better to have the body produce glucose as needed (keeping blood sugar levels stable) rather than have one's diet cause large influxes of glucose all at once, raising insulin levels. Glucose at high concentrations is toxic to many tissues, including the pancreatic beta cells (which make insulin). Carbohydrate (or rather, hyperinsulinemia caused by high blood sugar caused by carbohydrates) increases the risk of developing diabetes, it doesn't prevent it!

Glucose is not the only fuel the brain will use. In fact, most body tissues use ketones (a fat breakdown byproduct) for fuel just as happily, including the brain. In fact, the heart prefers ketones as a fuel source to glucose.

I realize that conventional mainstream diet wisdom says that it's solely how much you eat and not what you eat (despite the adage "you are what you eat"). However, you're missing some things.

First of all, you shouldn't be eating a balanced diet to lose weight, you should be eating an imbalanced diet that will correct the weight imbalance. Once your target weight is achieved, THEN eat a balanced diet. I certainly feel satisfied when I eat!

Second, there are metabolic and physiologic processes that are critical to weight loss/gain (and many other body factors) that are controlled by what you eat. Carbohydrates (or more accurately, a sharp rise in blood sugar level) signal the body to store fat. Most low-fat diets work not because they're low fat but because they're also restricted-calorie; and the person is actually eating fewer carbohydrates than before... thus giving their body the metabolic signal to release fat.

I don't miss my bread and potatoes because I revel in my bacon and cheese omelettes, fried pork skins, beef jerky, lamb, chicken, fish, cheese, celery with cream cheese, and salads. I eat luxuriously, enjoying butter, well-marbled steaks, and delicious cream sauces.

Going off carbohydrates will often make you lethargic for the first week. Your body is undergoing changes. It was in a carbohydrate-processing phase and it takes time for it to manufacture the enzymes necessary for fat-processing. (In both cases these are enzymes for storing, breaking down, and retrieving carbohydrates or fat as needed for energy, respectively.) Also, many people have allergies to carbohydrates (e.g., wheat especially) and they experience withdrawal as a double-whammy.

My breath has a distinct odor right now, too, but it's not bad, it's just different. That icky breath odor you complain about is evidence that your body is in ketosis: you are excreting fat breakdown byproducts (ketone bodies) in your breath, sweat, and urine. You were losing weight, and fast! Once you stop losing weight, or reduce the loss rate, the odor goes away. (Ketosis is good for healthy people; in diabetics, ketoacidosis is usually a warning indicator that something is wrong with blood sugar control.)

Enjoy your calorie counting (and eating controlled portions); I'm going to enjoy my carbohydrate counting instead, and will definitely continue to enjoy eating all I want (of course, only to satiation).




Tato, I would LOVE to find out about carbs being ESSENTIAL to preventing kidney disease in diabetics! Can you point me to a web page, library book, or any source where I can read about this? I care about knowing the science of this stuff.

All the research I've done gives me the conclusion that for healthy people, carbohydrates are completely non-essential (as Eskimos prove in real life). You could eliminate them entirely and be fine. Not so for fat and protein!

The Atkins diet isn't a high-protein diet, as some people think. It's a low-carbohydrate diet. The other portion is made up of not just protein, but also fat. People who have kidney disease can keep their protein intake steady and eat more fat. No, it's not bad for you. Only if you're eating carbohydrates is it bad, because your body then receives the metabolic signal to store the dang stuff!

Healthy people have essentially no risk of developing kidney damage from eating some extra protein. It's more like a 25% increase of protein, not 50% or 100%.

As far as the American Diabetes Association... I hate to say it but I think they need to open their eyes. Dr. Atkins cured a type I diabetes patient with a low carb diet (but note that this kind of treatment is only effective immediately after developing diabetes).




I can't seem to get the slight annoyance all the way out of my words... I apologize for that. I hope that this information is helpful to all, nonetheles..

While we respect your choice you are sadly mistaken in alot of what you put out. Most people are overweight because they over eat. It doesn't matter if the calories come from fat, protien or carbs if you take in more calories than your body expends it will be stored as fat no matter if it comes from fat, protien or carbs. You are posting in a W/W forum (there is a forum directed at lo-carbers) so you should respect what we are doing.

Secondly my sister was diagnoised with acute renal problems stemming from reducing her intake of carbs causing ketones to be produced in excess damaging her renal function. This was diagnoised by two different doctors and one was the one who told her to do a low-carb diet.

Eating balanced healthy is the way to get healthy and thinner. Along with exercise. Reduce the intake of calories and you will lose weight.

W/W isn't a diet. It teaches one to eat healthy and in proper portion. A body doesn't need all that food to be satified.

Are you saying I am not satisfied with what I eat? Because I am.

And I enjoy all of these things too but I get to enjoy them with a balance diet that includes whole grains, breads, potatoes, etc.

[qupte]Going off carbohydrates will often make you lethargic for the first week. [/quote] And what about after six months when I still stunk? And I never cheated on the diet.

You would do everyone in the low-carb camp a great service if you can provide them with the information about your sister (and a consultation with her doctors).

Check out http://www.vitaminusa.com/lowdietittox.html for some additional info about high ketones in the blood.

Bereft, I read your posts with great interest. I'm in college right now studying Kinesiology (the science of movement) and I'm taking a class in the physiology of exercise. We've just finished the section on metabolic control/processes, so a lot of what you mention is what I've been focusing on the last 5 weeks!

Question: isn't ketone a form of glucose anyway? I was under the impression that EVERY macronutrient eventually got broken down to glucose, and is processed through either glycolosis or glycogenolysis (or beta oxydation and lipolysis, the breakdown of fats in the mitochondria). And I was also under the impression that the CNS (central nervous system--the brain and nerves, basically) can in fact only use glucose as fuel, their cells don't have the enzymes for breakdown of anything else. Do I need to go back and re-study that part?

I am interested in the low-carb diet simply from a scholarly perspective. I'm never going to try it--I'm vegetarian and lactose intolerant, and don't like eggs that much--but I find it interesting. I also have an unsupported and probably completely wrong idea that it is very possible that humans have either changed physologically in reaction to our different lifestyles (although evolution isn't that fast, the body is very very powerful and very clever about caring for itself), or that research simply hasn't caught up with our differences in lifestyle and how they affect our bodies on a micro level. So it is conceivably possible that there ARE people for whom a low-carb diet works, their bodies HAVE changed in reaction to their earlier diets and lifestyles, and drastically reducing intake of one of the macronutrients IS the answer. But very little research has been done and very little is really understood. Who are we to say?

Kelly, everyone is free to make their own lifestyle decisions here. WW is a lifestyle change for some people, a diet for others. Low carb is a lifestyle change for some people and a diet to others. What matters is finding what works for you, and it looks like you've done that. Bereft was answering a question posted by JanetMae--she didn't start this discussion. I don't get the impression that she's trying to convert us, just trying to explain her stance and defend her opinions. Peace, chickie.

Bereft, They wouldn't listen anyway they are pretty set in their ways so I keep my mouth shut until they start 'pushing' (for lack of a better term.

Everyone I found this information on a very reputable site, "Protein Patrol - Could too much protein be causing you to pack on the pounds? The latest report says it might.

A recent study suggests that a high protein intake may lead to a high body mass index. For optimum health, limit protein intake to about 15% of your daily calories and make complex carbohydrates, such as fruits and vegetables, your menu mainstay. "