It's like the law of physics, each action has an equal and opposing action. The more you congratulate yourself for eating raptly foods you will equally hate yourself for eating unhealthy foods. Just let it go for now and treat all food as nourishing.

Hi, ladies...I'm another who used to be active on this thread, but have only popped in here and there to catch up on the posts since it became kind of inactive.

I think Carol and Trish are the only ones I knew from before, so I look forward to meeting the rest of you too.

Oh, SouthernMaven was active when I was at one point too. She had many views that coincided with my own. I'll miss her voice here.

I'm not really an IE'er. I'm a non-dieter, and there's a big difference. It's very easy to make IE into the "stomach hunger" diet, and that happened to me.

I'm much better off letting food and eating fade into the background of life as much as possible, just letting it be a normal part of life, like it used to be when I was naturally thin.

I'm better off when I don't restrict, try to follow anybody else's eating plans or rules, or categorize foods into "good" or "bad".

I'm also better off when I weigh infrequently or not at all, but I still weigh daily because I can be a numbers geek, and I like having all that data at my fingertips. Most days I can weigh myself, acknowledge the number, and be fine with it, but sometimes it would still be better if I didn't see the number because it can be frustrating when there's no movement, or the scale goes UP for unknown reasons, as I'm sure everyone has experienced.

For the most part, I've come to terms with my size and how I look, but this only happened to me a couple of years ago, when I was 55. I would like to be smaller because it would be easier to find clothes that fit and look nice, and I'd like to preserve my mobility for as long as I can, but I don't hate myself anymore, and if this is the size I stay for the rest of my life, even though it isn't my preference, there are worse things in life.

I was naturally thin all my life until after I gave birth to my daughter. I gained sixty or so pounds with my pregnancy, and had gotten back down to within twenty pounds of my normal weight afterwards when I had the bright idea of going on the Atkins diet, which was quite new at that time in the late 1970s.

I hate meat, and felt terrible on the Atkins diet, so it didn't last long, but it got me hooked into dieting from then on, and I've tried tons of diets over the past 30+ years. I attribute MOST of my weight gain to diets, quite a bit to being married (at that time) to a stick-thin man who hated any fat on a woman, and then to actually becoming hypothyroid.

I've never been a true binger. I'm more of a constant snacker, "picker", mindless eating, emotional eating person.

Over the last year or so, I've managed to take off 20 pounds. I'd like to continue taking more off, but am not willing to go on another diet to do it--even though I still go visit low carb and primal boards when I fall into "diet head" mode.

I hope this thread stays busy. It's nice to see.

I think some day we--society at large--are going to finally realize just how much damage "diets" have done to people, in contributing to yo-yo'ing, weight gain, and eating disorders. I think that's pretty far off still though, because as someone pointed out, too many people still think that diets are the only way to lose weight.

Welcome everyone!

Koali,

I think you asked the 5 million dollar question. If you can't eat to manage your feelings, what can you do? I've been trying to find the answers to that myself. Geneen Roth's book "Women, Food, and God" really helped me. She instructs her students to acknowledge the feelings that you are having and to *feel* them. Here's how I use her method. I had a meeting with a banker this past Saturday to talk about restructuring some of my debt. I was feeling very uncomfortable on Friday at work. I wrote out some of my feelings in my note-keeping software. It turns out I was worried about this meeting. I feel guilty for being in debt, I feel like I don't have very good control over how I spend money. I sat there and felt how my body feels those feelings- a slightly elevated heartbeat, a little headache, some pain in my muscles from them being rigid. When you concentrate on how your body feels it doesn't seem so bad. Your mind is freaking out but your body is still there breathing and doing its thing.

All those feelings were getting pent up inside me and making me want a cupcake or a cookie to make them go away. So now that I knew what was causing the uncomfortable feelings I thought more about it. It's totally natural to feel worried about money! It's okay to feel that way. But I'm going to the bank to be responsible and help myself take care of my financial situation. Even though I have a lot of debt I pay my bills every month in a timely manner and I have for years. Heck, they should be begging me to take out a loan with them because they'll be the ones getting the interest money.

By the end of talking to myself and feeling my feelings my fears and that uncomfortable feeling were reduced by 90%. No manicure or cookies were necessary. Negative feelings are indicators that something is wrong in your life that you need to take care of. It's just like physical pain. We feel pain so that we will avoid damaging our bodies. We'd be in pretty bad shape if we couldn't feel if we were hurting ourselves. Emotional pain is the same way- it's your body saying "hey, pay attention, something isn't right here!". It only becomes a problem when you get overwhelmed by it and do the wrong thing. If you touch a hot stove and instead of removing your hand you eat ice cream then the system isn't functioning like it should.

Yes I see that now, and I am working to change my thinking. I think its also an example of all or nothing thinking as well. Either its "good' or "bad". I have been eating just what I want all day without worrying about if its high nutrition or low nutrition or if I had a piece of bread for lunch AND breakfast. Or if I had veggies or fruit with every meal. I never realized how many internal little eating rules i had set up until I finally became aware of them. Carbs at breakfast means no carbs at lunch, fruit or vegetable with every meal, etc... Im working on becoming aware of them and moving past them.

Welcome! I am a daily weigher also. Well, most days. I work on treating it as just a number and learning about how I view the scale and myself. It doesn't seem to cause me to eat when Im not hungry or to deny myself food when I am hungry, and even when I've lost weight it doesn't make my whole day awesome or vice versa. So for now, I continue to weigh.

That is so great Locke! It's true about emotional pain. I have been doing some heavy duty emotional pain work myself the past couple of days. One thing I realized just tonight actually is that a part of me actually believes that my emotionally unavailable family will finally open up and connect to me, show me love, and treat me better if I am thinner. Yes it looks ridiculous typed out but that is a belief system I have carried almost my whole life. I was reading old journals from 16 years ago where I ranted about having to get thin so this guy I liked ( also emotionally unavailable) and my dad would finally show that they loved me. I weighed far less than I do today And I hated my body. It's ironic because I weigh more now and love my body SO much more. It makes me so sad to see how I treated my body with my fasting for days or my only eating 800 calories for days just so these people with their OWN issues might finally love me. I could have weighed anything in the world and their issues wouldn't change, they wouldn't suddenly show me that they cared or be able to give me what I needed.

So, sounds dumb but its been heavy duty for me. I can't believe I believed that for all these years.

Hi Truffle, welcome back and we look forward to hearing more from you.

I've heard this mentioned by others before, I'd like to hear more about it because I'm not clear on these issues yet. People who have done IE for a long time seem to come to the conclusion that us newbies are doing an IE-diet. From what I understand about IE is that it's a process with many steps. My initial step into IE started with mindful eating. Being aware of food without distraction and learning how to tune into my hunger and fullness. I would eat anything I want and just try to do it mindfully. Then I legalized all foods and worked on not feeling guilty about it - truthfully I think I'll always have to work on that lol.

Now that I'm feeling more confident about my ability to assess hunger/satiety I'm learning to nurture myself without food. For me IE is about getting in touch with what my body really needs, be it food/rest/pampering/exercise or whatever. I'd like to be able to move away from thinking about food as much as I do and I've made great progress I think. So can you help us understand what is the difference between IE and non-dieting?

Wow, best post ever! What a wonderful example of how you dealt with your discomfort. You've made so much progress!

I've been sick for a couple of days and have also been feeling some stress - both of these have interfered with reading my body's signals and yesterday I resorted to comfort eating for the whole day. I only had 2 meals and a snack so it's not the amount of food, it's the disconnect that I felt that bothers me. I think I even understand why I was feeling stressed and that didn't stop me from disconnecting.

On memorial day we had a bbq and invited some friends over. One of them was a newbie dieter. She's lost some weight and has a trainer and a dietician and a whole diet to go with it complete with a list of pre-approved snacks and a "carb window" during the day claiming that her body can only process carbs if she eats them in the evening. You know how dieters are, they want to talk about their diet and how amazing it is and I found myself antidieting in response. I ate more than I would just to prove to myself that I wasn't dieting. It's stupid, I know. I was sick too, had hardly eaten anything at all the day before because of it and I couldn't taste anything and I was just eating to eat.

The next day I felt so much discomfort about it and ate unconsciously. I still haven't come to terms with why and how I feel and hoping that it won't affect me so much today. I'm trying to be low key about it, if it's one thing I can't do is to restrict myself when I'm feeling so vulnerable but I do wish I could respond better to this discomfort and I'm not sure what to do to offset it.

This could get interesting, with me being Wannabehealthy, and then there's Wannabeskinny! LOL In the end, we all want the same thing.

To me, IE is as close to normal eating as you can get. For the most part, if you eat when you are hungry (true hunger, not emotional hunger) and stop when you are satisfied, you will lose weight. I know if I had done that all along I wouldn't have gained all this weight in the first place. In the past, if I had just finished dinner and a friend called to see if I wanted to go out for pizza, I was ready! People who are normal eaters, naturally thin, don't do that. They eat when they are hungry, stop when satisfied and if they are not hungry, they say so!

A weight loss diet tells you what and when to eat, plus how much. So non-dieting would be eating when, what and however much you want. But that's not the same as IE IMO. IE is eating when you are hungry. You can want to eat, but not be hungry. It's "want" from emotional needs, or seeing something that looks good, or someone else is eating, etc. It doesn't matter what you eat, but the "how much" does matter. You might want to eat a whole pizza, but you are actually "satisfied" with a couple slices.

Since I am diabetic, it does matter what I eat, because my blood sugar will go up too high if I eat a lot of starchy carbs. But I can do low carb and IE at the same time. I eat low carb when I am hungry, and stop when I'm satisfied. At least that's my goal. Like everyone else, I'm still learning, and don't always follow my own rules.

One poster mentioned that a friend told them they were putting themselves in starvation mode by going too long between meals, but all you really have to tell them is "I'm not hungry." If you have protein with some fat for breakfast, you might not get hungry again for a long time. Other foods like cereal, will not hold your hunger for more than a couple hours.

You could probably eat donuts for breakfast, a burger and fries for lunch and pizza for dinner, but I think you should also take into consideration what nutrients your body needs. If you give your body nutrients it needs to operate, you will not crave sweets and empty calories as much. You can still have a treat, but to me it's called a treat because it's only once in a while, not a daily part of your menu.

Some might say "then that's a diet," but I don't see it that way.

That is a tough one Wannabe S!

I think its really important to be compassionate with yourself about eating unconsciously. Don't be hard on yourself. Also, why are you feeling discomfort? Because you ate more than your body needed or is there something more? In all the books about IE, they always say that when regulated eaters eat too much, they acknowledge it, they say man that felt bad, remind me not to do that again. And then they totally forget about it and move on. If it its still bothering you two days later, maybe there is more to it for you? It's really good that you realize that restricting yourself, especially when feeling vulnerable will not be good for you. Maybe try journalling? Sometimes that helps me. write about the event and what you were feeling when you ate and the feelings you felt the next day. I dont' know, just some ideas. I hope you feel better today.

Hi Wannabe H!

Im sure if I had health concerns I would have to tailor my eating to a specific way. My problem is though that I actually know too much about nutrition and have way too many rules in place that I am working on breaking. For example, I always believed that I need lots of protein and very little carbs in the morning. yesterday I really wanted an english muffin with butter and jam. Previously I would never allow myself to have that for breakfast because empty carbs. But, since I am working on breaking my rules and really listening to my body, I did. Imagine my surprise when I felt satisfied all morning and wasn't hungry for lunch until 5 hours later. I don't think that would work every day, but that is what my body told me yesterday morning. I continued to listen to my body and it wanted pbj, with a giant fruit salad and greek yogurt for lunch. And for dinner, a pita pizza smothered with veggies. Since it was what my body wanted, it tasted delicious. I had such a great food day yesterday. Every meal was true enjoyment without following my internal nutrition/diet rules.

But, like I said I don't have a health issue so I am more free to do that. It's been the biggest part of my struggle with IE actually.

Welcome wannabehealthy, I've seen you around the boards but didn't realize that you dabble with IE. I know what you mean about nutrition and IE. That can be a very confusing aspect of IE, especially in the beginning. My only real experience with IE was when I was pregnant, I've mentioned this before in other threads but here goes again if you don't know it. When I was pregnant I ate whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted and however much I wanted. I was completely happy and in tune with my body. I did have restrictions, the normal pregnant lady don'ts like soft cheese and deli meats and raw seafood etc which I missed desperately. But I was able to adhere to those rules effortlessly because of those medical issues. I lost weight during my pregnancy and weighed less at 9months than I do now lol, I eneded weighing 10lbs less when I gave birth than I was when I first got pregnant. Because I felt beautiful, unrestricted and not self conscious about my body.

Yes, it's possible to eat nutritionally and make good choices while doing IE. Mostly because food is not emotionally charged or off limits. Sometimes I push my meat and potatoes away and focus on my salad and then I'm full and can't eat anything. I eat much more balanced now than ever.

I also think that food rules can have a placebo effect. For years I thought what Pinhippie mentioned - if I eat carbs in the morning I'll be hungry an hour later. And that really was true for as long as I believed it. But it doesn't affect me anymore. I can have toast and jam in the morning and be fine all the way till lunch without snacking or feeling jittery. I do like how I feel when I eat protein though so I eat it, but on the occassions that I've had a carby breakfast with no real protein I've also been fine. The mind can be very powerful.

I'm working on figuring it out. I might be jealous, there is a bit of competition between us. Her program is working in the sense that she's lost a bunch of weight. She's also a member of a very expensive elite gym, one that I could never hope to be a member of and has a trainer and a dietician to help her. I think being around the dieting behavior made me feel fat and out of control in comparison eventhough I'm neither. Actually, I think she's been on this program for the same amount of time that I've been doing IE. She's lost 30lbs or so, I've lost 6lbs. That's caused some panic.

Well, yeah then your feelings and reaction make perfect sense. I would have a hard time in that situation too. And for me, jealousy is an emotion I hate to even admit I have or feel and I would eat to not feel that emotion for sure. Just remember that you are healing your relationship with food and yourself. That is so much more important right now. And, forget dietitians and personal trainers, you have your nutritional therapist to help you and that is pretty awesome and amazing.

I was reading some of the old IE posts. Do you still write down what you eat like you did in the beginning working with your therapist?

I'm glad there are a few more people here this week. It was feeling a little bit empty. This week I'm focusing on giving my body nutritious foods. Nothing new is off limits but my body wants vegetables, meat, eggs, fruit, etc. instead of some of the breadier stuff I've been eating. I've noticed before that sugar makes me feel sick. Our office started providing fresh fruit so I've started eating more of that. I don't even think about the candy bowl anymore with so much good stuff around. I'm feeling really good today and I hope that continues.

Wannabe S, I totally understand how irritating dieters can be. On the one hand I want to be supportive of anyone who is trying to improve herself, on the other hand it's triggering for me. It makes me want to jump on the diet wagon, too! Our culture worships diets and dieters, too. I've written before about how there are a few people I work with who will make comments about something that I'm eating that's perceived as healthy.

Wannabe H,
Welcome! The honoring your body's needs vs. honoring your health is one of the hardest things I've dealt with in IE. IE still seems to work with restrictions. I quit caffeine about 5 weeks ago. I feel so much better without it. Yes, caffeine is off-limits for me and I don't even want to eat chocolate most of the time because of it. I'm trying to figure out the best way to feed myself healthy food without triggering my dieting mindset and the accompanying binge behavior. It's rough but I think it's getting better.

Its nice to see our thread a little more active. I have been going back and slowly over time reading all the IE threads here and at one time, it looks like they were quite active. It would be neat to have that happen again.

So, for me yesterday I had the realization that I am still not listening to my body. Even though I thought I was. I ate lunch, it was relatively low fat and low calorie but not on purpose, its just what sounded good. Vegetable pasta salad with tons of fresh vegetables. I ate it and pretty quickly my stomach felt FULL. LIke oops I ate too much. I didn't even finish it. I left the table and about 10 minutes later my stomach felt totally fine. not too full, just right. 45 minutes later my stomach started to feel like it was gnawing itself. Very very uncomfortable. Now, this is a normal occurrence for me after lunch quite often. What I normally do is just ignore it, tell myself I ate and I can't possibly be hungry and just power through it until my next "approved" snack time or meal time. Like when I feel like I SHOULD be hungry. Usually 3 hours later. But yesterday I was like you know, my body is telling me something right now and I have gotten in the habit of ignoring it. This time Im going to do something about it. Maybe I need more food. Something higher in fat and protein. So, I went and got myself about half a cup of full fat greek yogurt. yummmm. As I ate gradually that gnawing feeling went away and I realized that I had actually been hungry. I felt great. I didn't feel overfull or stuffed and I realized I had finally listened to my body.

So then, later I was preparing dinner and there was a time limit because my oldest daughters dad picks her up at a certain time and I have to have dinner ready by then. So, I sat down with my food and started eating. About a 1/4 way through I realized I wasn't even hungry when I started to eat. It was totally automatic. oops. I stopped eating a few bites after that realization and left dinner on the table for about 2 hours, waiting to be hungry. It finally happened but I didn't want dinner, I wanted a little more yogurt and strawberries. Then I was done for the day and once again I felt great.

It's crazy how this is a constant learning process. I guess I have just been ignoring my body and what it needs for too long. Today, Im going to make a more conscious effort to feed myself when I am hungry, actually recognize that gnawing feeling as hunger, even if I just ate and not just eat because its dinner time. I realize I do that a lot.

I hope everyone is having a great day so far!