I think you're right, I think people truly believe that FAT is the problem and if they become thin then their problems would be over and their exciting happy life would begin. But it also seems to feed a need that people have to fulfill hardship. It's almost like they want it to be hard, they want it to be an accomplishment - I don't feel like it is an accomplishment. I believe that if I can find a way to be at peace with myself and food that I will naturally lose weight. And even if I don't lose ALL the weight that my self esteem and confidence will be such that I'll be happy anyway.

It's difficult to be around people who want to impose restriction and punishment on themselves. And all I want to do is nourture myself.

It also goes along with human nature to blame external factors for failure. People have a fear of food. Sugar is evil. Carbs are addictive. Wheat makes you crazy. Eating potatoes makes one want to eat more potatoes. Fat makes you fat. It gets to the point where people start avoiding carrots because they're scared of the sugar in them, and avoiding avocados because they've got too much fat. There is such a deep fear of food, it's almost illogical.

These past few days I've come to realize that my food fears have calmed down so much. I have a long bad relationship with carbs that I'm diligently working on by allowing them back in my life. I used to believe the hype that carbs are addictive and make me do crazy things, but how does one explain that they don't do that for me anymore?

I was reading in another thread about "what will you never do to your body again" and someone said "I will never eat nutella again." Quite randomly I just happened to be eating my breakfast at that moment - an english muffin with nutella And so many people piped up and said that they can't even have nutella in the house because they binge on it. I used to be one of those people! I was afraid to keep certain foods in the house because they made me eat like a raving lunatic. But honestly, I keep the house stocked with my favorite goodies and tap into them only when I feel like it. My nutella jar has been in the house for over 3weeks and I've had 1 tbsp twice since then. It's in plain sight, on my countertop. Same thing with my chips and cheetos and cookies and bread and jam and all the other bad stuff. It's in plain sight and I'm fine. I'll walk right past it and think "oh good, maybe I'll have some of that later" and then I never do.

I do want to lose weight, of course I do. It ranks high on my list of goals. But right now I'm enjoying the process of developing a neutral relationship with food. I'm learning how to really enjoy my food (because binging is the opposite of enjoyment!), how to cope with my daily stress and how to find ways to relieve myself of the constant guilt I've plagued myself with.

And it's sooooooo nice not to have to deal with willpower anymore. This might be the best part of it as it turns out - even more so than getting to eat my favorite foods without restriction. It's so nice not to have to be "good" anymore. I mean who wants to wake up everyday and face a mountain of self-imposed grit?

Wannabe, I have to constantly remind myself of this and it really struck a chord with me. This is about developing a healthier relationship with food rather than the goal of losing weight. And that's the part I have to focus on when things get rough. I read in overcoming overeating that people usually solve when to eat, what to eat, and how much to eat in that order. I think that Ive figured out the first two, but I still really am working on the last one. Instead of feeling like I need to be OK eating less, I need to remind myself that this is a process that has a lifelong benefit. I'm learning to trust and love my body, something that dieting never taught me to do.

I really am grateful for you ladies!

I feel the same way, thank you. In a virtual world full of dieters and a the real world full of dieters it is difficult to convince myself that I'm doing the right thing. So it's nice to have a handful of ladies here that understand what this process is like and I'm grateful for you all.

I was recently accused by a dieting member of 3FC of prostelatizing about IE, although I was just saying what worked for me - somehow it's ok for people to talk about restriction and willpower but it's NOT ok for someone to point out that restriction backfires on me. Anyway, it got me thinking about why I think IE is the right way for me because I definitely don't want to be on any bandwagons and I don't like to fall victim to fads. I would say that calorie counting was the most effective diet I was on. It was number crunching and there was logic to it and it worked. I could never sustain it and I always ended up binging but when I did it it worked. But my deep instinctual voice always whispered to me "do you really want to be weighing and measuring and counting all the time?" and I didn't! I got obsessed with it. I kept journals and charts and so full of numerical knowledge that it interfered with every eating experience. I wasn't eating an egg. I was eating a net worth of calories, a % of my daily net, I had X amount of calories left. Prepping food was such a chore and eating was not enjoyable enough to make up for the hard work. And the moment I went over my caloric allotment for the day all heck broke loose and I'd go on a rampage of over eating. It just wasn't normal behavior.

My other go-to diet was low carb. But low carb builds up a type of resentment that no other diet is capable of. You have to begin to hate carbs and you have to sort of begin to hate the people that eat carbs too. It's really the only way that you can sustain this type of diet, you have to build protective walls so thick and so high that you alienate yourself from everyone. It becomes difficult to order at restaurants, attend parties, cook for your family. As hard as I tried to fit into this type of diet I couldn't make myself hate carbs. It's impossible for me to look at a potato and see an enemy.

As Locke pointed out, there are permitters and restricters. I don't know which one I am but I know that there is a very strong something inside of me that causes me to rebel violently against being told what not to eat. It's brought on by restriction and by very intense feelings of anxiety or frustration.

So why do I think IE is the right "diet" for me even though I've only lost 6lbs since February? Because I've got nothing to rebel against. Because the fight is not about food anymore. I'm free and clear of food and can FOCUS on the issues I need to focus on. Because I went from not understanding what hunger feels like to knowing exactly how hungry I am at any given moment. Because I can look in the mirror and love what I see even though my clothes don't fit any differently. Because learning how to read my hunger signals has helped me read a lot of other things about myself - I was as oblivious to my emotions as I was to hunger. Now when I feel discomfort I know exactly what it is - be it anger, anxiety, stress, frustration, or hunger. I can tell the difference.

I didn't need a diet. I needed a personality overhaul. Dieting was the only solution available to me, but I knew I needed to think differently. I knew that I couldn't restrict myself, I needed to have the personality of a person who didn't want to eat a whole box of cookies. This new person that I'm becoming is exactly who I want to be. I'm not there yet, but I'm so far removed from who I used to be and yet I still get to eat cookies, I just have no desire at all to eat a whole box of cookies anymore.

Koali, I'm also grateful for everyone in this thread and I also sometimes forget that it's not about weight loss, it's about changing my relationship with food (and with the world at large).

Wannabe, my weight is slow to come off, too, but I have a feeling that the more skilled I become at intuitive eating the more quickly it will come off. I also think that slow, gentle weightloss is the best for the body in the long run. It's difficult, though.

I can definitely understand why the dieters on this board do not like us. While they're trying to strictly control their eating we're saying to eat all the ice cream you want. They are trying to tune out their bodies and we are trying to listen. What we do is scary and counter-intuitive to the diet dogma that's been around for decades.

IE has given me another voice inside me- a nurturing voice that I never had before. I find it popping up at the oddest times. Today I was power walking to a bus stop across a college campus. I looked at the time and thought "Oh boy, it's going to be a close one to make this bus." Instead of telling myself to "hurry up you fat cow" or something like that which I would have thought before, I thought "Come on girl, you can make it." I felt how powerful my legs were and how smoothly my joints were moving. I felt the air fill my lungs and my muscles stretch as my stride lengthened to cover my ground. I felt attuned and at peace with my body like I once did when I was an athlete. It was a serene feeling, and one that I probably wouldn't have had if I hadn't been kindly encouraging myself.

P.S.- I made the bus!

Koali: I am so grateful for all of you as well. It has helped me so much.

Wannabe: I am an old calorie counter as well. It's really easy to fool yourself and tell yourself that you can have anything you want to eat, as long as you stay in your caloric limits... But eventually that leads to not having things because then you would go over and then here comes old friend deprivation and restriction again.

Locke: The bolded honestly made me tear up. That is beautiful and wonderful. I think learning the ability to talk to yourself with love is one of life's most important and vital skills and it sounds like you are on your way, and how awesome to feel the difference!

I realized today that although I am doing great with when to eat, and how much to eat, I am still working on my "what to eat." I thought I had manage to banish the thoughts of "good and bad" foods but I realized that what I have done is replaced them with " right eating and wrong eating."

For example, today for lunch I had a delicious homemade steak salad. yum. then I wanted some chocolate and some coolwhip (something I NEVER was allowed to have) so I had several spoonfuls of coolwhip with a few handfuls of chocolate chips. I ate that until I felt my body telling me that I had eaten enough. The whole time I was eating that my brain was telling me this was WRONG. This is not the right way to eat. After I ate them I struggled with not feeling guilty for eating WRONG. The salad was right, and the coolwhip and chocolate chips was wrong. All afternoon I have been trying not to feel like I ate wrong. I REALLY need to work on this but Im glad that i became aware of it today.

I just read this sad blog of a woman who got down to her goal weight with dieting, decided to try IE to maintain, stopped IE because she gained 5 pounds in two weeks, and then dieted her way back up to 100 lbs from where she started. Not that IE is about weight loss, but her relationship with food was not able to be healthy because she was too worried about gaining weight and she never truly was able to truly trust her body and go through the process. She also had/has an eating disorder. I could really relate to a lot of her thoughts about her weight, food and her body. I felt that way before I started practicing IE as well. I am so glad that I seem to be on the road to recovery. It makes sense to me. When food becomes just food why would you eat more than your body needs? So, that is what I am still working on. Although I dont' feel deprived, and I eat what I want when I want it, I have those tinges of guilt for eating "wrong.".

Hippie,

I still struggle with that, too. I got past my bread/cheese/jam for dinner phase but I still have these nagging feelings that what I eat could be better. This morning I had granola and milk for breakfast and I just finished tomato soup with a cheese sandwich for lunch but I always wonder things like "does granola have too much sugar?" "what about the saturated fat in the cheese?" ... stuff like that. Usually when I eat sweets I give myself a hard time, too. I had a cupcake on two consecutive days last week and while I didn't consciously beat myself up about it the thought sprang into my head when I stepped on the scale yesterday morning and found it hasn't really moved all week. I just try to remind myself how far I've come. Instead of bingeing and eating six cupcakes (or 12!) I ate two a day apart.

Hi everyone,
I know that finding ways to nourish ourselves other than food is a really important part of IE and I honestly feel like that's an area i've been lacking in.
Can I ask how exactly do you guys work on this? For example, when my boyfriend just broke up with me or my parents house just got foreclosed(two things that happened to me recently )or other big issues what do I do to deal? I do want to rewire my brain but sometimes I'm just not sure exactly how to. I've read all the common things like paint my nails or take a bubble bath, but if I'm honest those do not make me feel better. I haven't had a binge in over two months ,Yay! But I KNOW that I'm still eating sometimes for issues that food can't comfort me through...

When we say "nourishing yourself" we don't mean go get a manicure. Sure, it's fun to get a manicure and it can be a quick pick-me-up. But that's not exactly what we mean be self-nurture. By self nurture we mean for you to give yourself exactly what your body needs, IE and food is a great intro to that. Give your body what it wants to eat, that's why the first part of IE can be so confusing and induce weight gain, because we give it the things it craves. But at some point, you'll understand that food is not what it needs all the time. Being self nurturing is giving yourself what you need at the time that you need it (food, comfort, rest, time off, etc). Like Locke for example, she needed to hurry to catch the bus - what she did not need was a negative voice telling her to hurry. She needed that supportive voice telling her she CAN do it.

I'll share with you a chart that my NT gave to me to help me identify what causes my food behavior - it's all about feelings. I have this chart up on my refrigerator (no, it doesn't guard my refrigerator and stop me from eating lol, it's just where I store it) and refer to it often.

Eating, binge eating, or food restriction are ways that some people cope with uncomfortable feelings and unmet needs. Many times people are not even aware. These two simple questions pave the way to awareness and ultimately meaningful change.

WHAT AM I FEELING NOW?
(This is a list of feelings. If none of these descriptions fit try the description "uncomfortable")
Fearful edgy, frightened, nervous, scared, wary, worried
Angry exasperated, hostile, irritable, outraged, resentful, vengeful
Sad dejected, gloomy, grief, hopeless, lonely, sorrow
Joyful amused, delighted, gratified, happy, satisfied, silly
Disgusted appalled, contempt, distain, indignation, repulsed, revolted
Surprised amazed, astonished, dumbfounded, flabbergasted, shocked, startled
Shame disgraced, embarrassed, guilty, humiliated, mortified, remorseful

WHAT DO I NEED NOW?
(What do I need, right now to deal with my current feelings? It's okay if you don't know what you need. The action of being aware, and just checking in to your possible needs is progress. If your needs were obvious you wouldn't be turning to food or restriction)
Distraction Change environment, watch funny movie, internet, music, go out with a friend, go to a book store, play with your pet
Support call a friend, email a friend, text a friend, talk to family, chat online, talk with a spiritual advisor, talk with a therapist
Deal Directly with Feeling Write in a journal, Listen to music that matches your feeling, write a letter, sit with your feeling for 10min, reframe the thoughts that are triggering the feeling - is there another way you can view this situation?, talk with a therapist
Self-care Set limits, respect self-vulnerability, "alone" time, sleep/rest, write in journal, unplug phone/computer

The more I refer to this list the easier it becomes to identify what I'm feeling and what my needs are. This is a major factor in curbing my need for using food as a coping mechanism. It looks very scary at first but it's gotten easier. For example, I can see very easily that if you were feeling angry and resentful at someone that a manicure (which would fit under self-care) wouldn't do much to address those feelings. Instead it would be be more beneficial to talk to a friend or reframe your thoughts etc. Your response to your feelings should be appropriate to those specific feelings.

Getting out of the "good vs. bad" mentality is a challenge and we have to accept that it will take time. I know what works for me though - we try not to scold ourselves when we eat something "bad" right? We work really hard not to plague ourselves with guilt. But then when we eat a salad we have no problem patting ourselves on the back. The key for me is not to congratulate myself when I eat a "good" food. It's like a pendulum - if I let the pendulum swing to the good side then it will ultimately have to swing to the bad side when I eat a "bad" food. You've got to stay away from feeling righteous about the good food. Focus on how you feel physically (energetic etc) but stay away from giving too much credit to yourself.... it's just food remember? The more importance you give to food the more it will control your feelings.

Sorry for the long blathering posts lol, I guess I'm on blah blah blah mode lol. Just coming in to say that IE is sticking more lately. It's becoming more intuitive and less thought out day to day. I know this because being a recovering low-carber I visit the carb counters thread from time to time and it usually sends me into a mini-panic that I'm not on the low carb wagon. I do not contribute to those threads because I have no wish to be rude and bring opposing views to a place where low carbers should feel support, so I don't know why I visit still other than to see how it affects me. It puts me into a diet mindset and makes me think that once I get really good at IE I can go low carb lol. But that's changed lately, I visited recently and it didn't stir any diet cravings anymore. It just seems absurd to listen to anyone telling me what I should or shouldn't be eating, you can't possibly know another person well enough to know what they shouldn't be eating, how silly is that lol.

Besides, I'm eating much less carbs now than I ever did as a low carber. And I'm eating way more salads now than I ever did as a calorie counter. Isn't that odd?

It's been a while since I've been here, but I'm back again. I saw some of the suggested books to read on Chicks in Control thread and it mentioned the book Thin for Life and remembered that I have the book. I've been reading it again. It was interesting to find that while there are people who successfully lose weight and keep it off with diet programs that there are also many who lose it without formal diet programs. I've shared on here years ago that I grew up eating Intuitively before I ever heard the term IE and almost every time I've been thin, I ate Intuitively. I've always said that I learned to gain and lose weight with diets in the beginning because everyone said that I was not eating healthy. The rule of thumb seemed to have been back then that you HAD to eat at least 3 meals a day. Then the same people got on my case because I gained weight.

Well, I still have to fight the idea that "I need to eat 3 meals a day" even when I'm not hungry as the brainwashing has taken pretty good over the past 40 yrs.

Wannabe I love reading your posts as you sound so much like me. I know that when you restrict what I can and cannot eat that I am going to want it. I realized a few weeks ago that I "rebel" against being deprived of my favorite foods. Therefore, I have to find a way to eat so as to incorporate them without feeling guilty when I have them. I love a good sandwich with chips. I really resent when I can't have them. When I was a thin teenager, I ate a sandwich with a small 1 oz bag of chips everyday for lunch. So I recently started counting calories just so I could have them. Today I do eat the sandwich with veggies on it which has become even more of a treat for me. I never was much of a sweet eater, but do include them when I want them and just count the calories.

My goal is to get back to eating ONLY when hungry and learn to eat what I really want. I find that may mean that I don't want 3 meals a day and some days I might. But the main thing I want to do is get to the place that food is not on my mind all the time. There are days that I have no idea what I want to eat and I usually eat something just because I think I should, however, I'm not sure that is always true.

When I was on this thread before, it was not very active so there wasn't much support. It is nice to see IE taking off as I really believe it is the best way for me to eat. I look forward to getting to know y'all.

Welcome pattygirl63! We have somethings in common - I love having a sandwich with chips, it's one of my biggest pleasures! This would be a very common "cheat meal" on my diet and it be a big old sandwich with a whole 3.5oz bag of Utz, yep! It's not that anymore, now I have a nice normal looking sandwich with a handful of chips on the side that I barely finish most days, and I'm full to the brim. Also, like you I can recall the times I was the thinnest to be my most intuitive eating times when I wasn't counting, measuring etc. Welcome, it's nice to have you here.

Most of you might know that I am seeing a nutritional therapist. One day I received a PM from SoutherMaven (miss her!) alerting me to a magazine blog called The Anti-Diet Project, about a girl who is taking on the IE lifestyle and lives right here in nyc. I was so taken with her blog postings that I instinctively reached out to the nutritional therapist she mentioned in her blogs and now she's my NT! Anyway the most recent post is about diet myths and I thought I'd share it since it's basically an entire blog post by my NT. I can't tell you how helpful she's been to me. She gives me so many tools in how to address my behaviors that have radically changed me. She provides solutions to my eating behaviors and makes me believe that my eating disorder can be cured. http://www.refinery29.com/diet-myths

Wannabe - Thanks for the welcome and the article shared. I also am going to check out her website.

Yes I have that internal voice when Im eating too and I have been working hard on silencing that. I still have a hard time with sweets too. I kind of worry that I won't ever be able to eat nutritiously because I want to burn all the nutrition books.

That is a tough one. I know that my husband is a big source of comfort for me when things with my family are going on. When my husband is bugging me I find my friends to be helpful. Honestly sitting down and writing my feelings almost NEVER works for me so I have stopped trying to do that. I like meditation but doing it in the moment doesn't really help. It helps to meditate when I am feeling ok and calm and not craving food, so I set it up as something I CAN do when something is bothering me later. Exercise is another self care thing I do for myself. But that is something I have to do when I feel ok, to remember and know how great I feel after I do it so I will turn to it when I feel bad. I like making tea and adding however much sugar or honey I want to it and not worrying about calories. I like to read so reading fluffy novels helps a lot. I have a kindle and I can find stuff on Amazon for free all the time. Sometimes listening to music helps. And for me, sometimes I just really want to eat something even when I know Im not hungry and I try to give myself full permission and eat and savor what I am eating. Anyway, I think my point is, my self care cannot kick in just when I am struggling with emotional eating. It has to be something I do for myself all the time so those tools are already available to me.

This is SO true and so important. I need to not fall into that trap. Obviously thinking of the salad as good is going to set up chocolate chips as bad. Or right or wrong.

Thanks Wannabe, I am going to work on that. It is soooooo hard. I can't believe how much even a tiny dabble into diet mentality can mess me up so badly.