[Lauren201]

Originally Posted by Hotaru

Has anyone ever read the James Herriot books? They start out with All Creatures Great and Small, and are autobiographical accounts of a country vet living in England before (and in later books, during and after) WWI. I ask because I can't remember what exact book the quote was in, but one of his stories profoundly affected me when I was small. It's about an elderly woman who loses a dog, and when she asks the vet if he believes that animals have souls, James answers, "If having a soul means being able to feel love and loyalty and gratitude, then animals are better off than a lot of humans."

That sums it up for me.

On a side note, I lost my pet rat on Monday night, so I may be particularly sensitive to this, but I can't imagine a heaven without my pets. Heck, who else is gonna chase after tennis balls up there?

That's how I feel too and even though I'm not religious and don't necessarily believe in God if there is a Heaven (and if we do have souls, since there is no way of knowing for sure) I know my animals will be there. Animals are completely innocent creatures they love us unconditionally no matter what and if anything animals probably belong in Heaven more than we do.

I consider myself more spiritual than religious. Just to clarify. LOL

I do believe in an afterlife though. I actually kind of think of the afterlife as a "Spirit World".

This is a really good book that I would recommend anyone who believes in an afterlife to read. It really helped me when my chinchilla passed away.
http://www.amazon.com/Animals-Spirit...2395883&sr=8-1

[EZMONEY]

Originally Posted by Nola Celeste

....
I even see some good in Atlanta Falcons fans, though I admit it's difficult.

What about us RAIDERS FANS?

Originally Posted by Heather

..... It can be damaging to support to feel that one's important values are being diminished -- that goes for whatever one's spiritual and religious views are.

It's hard to have a conversation about souls without bringing in religious and spiritual beliefs.

But it should be reasonable to ask people not to assume that other people can or should or want to share their religious beliefs, or to somehow intimate that their religious beliefs are better than someone else's.

I feel a lot of the posts here are directed at me and what I posted.

I read a lot of posts here that I totally did not agree with yet made no comment on them....

I feel I stated simply what I believe and in no way try tried to "force" what I belive on anyone...

why would I do that? What I belive is a free gift for anyone that wants it...

I have my "eternity" and gain or lose nothing on what any one else believes...

why is it that what I post makes many of you feel uncomfortable?

[Nola Celeste]

EZ, any time one person says "I know this to be true" and another knows a different truth, there's going to be friction--or rather, the possibility of friction. It's why I really, really, really like to walk away from things like that and focus on the common ground that all of us share here.

Not to be too self-revelatory in a "do pets have souls?" thread, but I was once told by a "nice" Christian lady that my sister is currently burning in **** because she died a Presbyterian and not a born-again Christian. I was twelve at the time and my older sister had been dead for maybe ten months. To this day, I don't know why this woman thought that telling me that would compel me to join her faith; I don't know of much more evil to do to a kid than to tell her that her sister is consigned to eternal hellfire.

I really hate to see this thread get shut down, but I have a feeling it will be after too much religious debate. I don't go into the faith-based section of this board very often because I feel unwelcome there, but...well, while this thread's still open, I just want to help you see from a different angle as well. For some people, the message of religious faith isn't "I am chosen," it is "you are not and therefore you're doomed."

It's hard to share common dialogue with someone who sees you as an object of pity, scorn, or revulsion because you're basically the walking damned as far as they're concerned. It's why I (usually) desperately try to avoid discussing religion.

[Lauren201]

Originally Posted by Nola Celeste

I was once told by a "nice" Christian lady that my sister is currently burning in **** because she died a Presbyterian and not a born-again Christian. I was twelve at the time and my older sister had been dead for maybe ten months. To this day, I don't know why this woman thought that telling me that would compel me to join her faith; I don't know of much more evil to do to a kid than to tell her that her sister is consigned to eternal hellfire.

When I was about 8 years old my pet rabbit passed away. When I asked the pastor at my parent's church what happened to him, I was told that animals don't go to Heaven because they don't have souls. I didn't believe him and it shaped the way I feel about certain religions ever since. The way he said it was just purely mean. I pretty much stopped believing in God and decided in my 8 year old mind that if my rabbit didn't go to Heaven than I don't want to go there either. I still pretty much feel the same way and I believe that if there is a God he will understand my feelings based on what happened to me.

[ArcticFrogs]

EZ: You've asked why certain things make people uncomfortable, and I've tried to contribute. When I say "you" in this post, it is in a general sense - though you are the one who asked, please don't feel like I am singling you out as an individual...it's not the case. You have nearly 20,000 posts and are obviously a valued member of this community.

any time one person says "I know this to be true" and another knows a different truth, there's going to be friction

It's hard to share common dialogue with someone who sees you as an object of pity, scorn, or revulsion because you're basically the walking damned as far as they're concerned.

When someone implies superiority over others, especially over something relative (such as belief), people become uncomfortable.

Like it or not, what you "know" to be true is simply another belief. No matter how deeply you feel it, no matter how wholeheartedly you dedicate your life to this belief, no matter how solidly applicable these thoughts are...it is still just a belief.

Claiming that others "cannot understand" the magnitude of your faith is both erroneous and condescending - people outside of your religion are perfectly capable of not only understanding your dedication to your faith, but of dedicating themselves to other ideas and causes with the same amount of passion.

...I could go on with examples, stories and other soap-box rantings...****, I could probably even make some handy dandy charts. I won't. Things amplify on the Internet, feelings get hurt, and potential damage that it could cause simply isn't worthwhile. As strongly opposed to mandated censorship as I am, I completely understand why the rules are here and why the moderators have to keep a pretty watchful eye on this rambunctious crew *grins*.

Tl;dr: Regardless (and because of!) of our different backgrounds and beliefs, this site is a valuable resource. We are here on mutual ground - lets continue to support, encourage and inspire one another!

Like Nola, I really do not want to see this thread locked/deleted, but it very likely will be. Perhaps that is for the best, all things considered.

[EZMONEY]

to all

I will return and expalin my point later today...

but honestly, when I BOLD face "know" and other words I do it to express how strongly I feel about it...

not in any way to disrespect what others feel...

hard to sometimes get points across "posting" instead of having conversations...

sorry kids!

[jules1216]

I feel I have to defend EZ here a little...any one who has been on this site knows EZ's religious conviction and with a title of a thread stated like this knows you just opened the door to his views..the same as everyone else who feels strongly about a pet would post..

EZ is a very compassionate and supportive poster on this site I believe due to that conviction...he is open to pm's when you are having an issue and will answer you and give support in his very special way..

that being said...I have been to many churches in my search for answers to questions I have on various topics. Even in a single church or group you will get many answers to this question..

because...we dont have the specific answers to every question...it's what one feels in their heart to be truth that one believes..

I just lost my almost 12 year old dog to cancer in January, my dogs give me unconditional love and comfort..this particular one went out every morning to "bark" me goodbye and was at the gate every evening before I was even out of the car..

do I believe my dog will be with me in heaven...yes..do I believe she had a soul...I am not sure...do I know she will be loved till the day I die...yes..do I believe a person goes straight to heaven when they die...that would be a true religious debate...

[Heather]

I am going to go ahead and close this thread -- which is too bad, because it's timely for me. But it has become a debate among many posters about religion more than about pets' souls. My earlier post on this thread was trying to walk it away from that debate, for the reasons I explained.

I do think we can all agree that many of us bring dear dear pets into our homes, and they become such important parts of our lives that these kinds of conversations are important, especially as we face their deaths. Just as they are important as we face our own.