If you increase your carb intake, it will increase the amount of water your body needs, but remember water takes up space, so when you gain water weight, you do gain inches somewhere (wherever your body is storing the water - for me water weightt tends to show in my face, wrists, calves, and ankles - but different people can store the water in different areas).



Theoretically yes 1200 to 1400 calories would be your maintenance calories (at least for now), but it doesn't mean that your maintenance calories will be in that range forever. You could stick with this calorie range, and eventually start to lose again. You could even gain, but that's far less likely on such a low calorie range (and if it happens, you may want to talk to your doctor about getting tested for metabolic/endocrine issues such as low-thyroid...)

In fact, it might be something to consider now, because it could explain why you're maintaining on a relatively low calorie level (this may just be your natural maintenance calorie level, but it wouldn't hurt to get checked for thyroid or other possible health issues that could be accounting for a slower metabolism).

kaplods I am grateful for your thoughts. I am in complete agreement with you about shifting my emphasis and energy on sustainable behaviors. I did this a while ago and am much happier and at peace. Every behavior change I have made until now I am very comfortable with continuing forever. I love cooking, eating healthfully, and exercising. I don't mind counting calories and I have successfully shifted some of my unhealthy attitudes towards food.

I think my concern is that I am willing to take on additional behaviors in the long run: reducing my calories, being even more vigilant about staying on plan (which means refusing food I currently accept out of politeness at parties, etc). But at some point what we are willing to do is unhealthy. I think I've found that boundary for me. Even though I can stick to increased restrictions doesn't mean I should. At some point it becomes unrealistic for me to tighten my plan up even more... and unhealthy.

I completely agree with you that I was putting too much stock into my numerical goal. I am so happy that I've assembled a set of healthful behaviors I can stick to for the rest of my life. That is the best "goal" I can hope for.

I think what I was/am struggling with is what JayEll described well early on. The idea that it's a "mind over matter" issue. I was having trouble finding where my responsibility to "get it together" ends and letting go of things out of my control begins. The reason I started with 3FC was my lifestyle changed (I moved across the world and became far less active) and I ate whatever I wanted. I gained weight and had no idea why- I felt it was out of my control. With 3FC and other resources I learned that a lot of it was in my control- I had to eat less and move more. And I did- I took control over my weight gain (only about 10 lbs at the time) before it took control over me.

But at some point our weight loss and body shape is out of our hands and I need to find where that point is.

Also one last small note- my issue is settling vs pushing myself, not punishing myself. I am definitely not an advocate of punishing oneself with regards to weight

I just saw your second post- many, many thanks for this information. The banana-zucchini loaf and upside-down apple cake are gone now, and I'm committed to reducing my grain/wheat/carb intake once again. I wish I didn't like baking so much

That's helpful to know about my maintenance calorie range. I track on MFP and was looking back at my logs from June-July, when I was the same weight but on the path to losing. I was eating very similarly to what I eat now. I wonder if I'm not tracking now as closely as I should be and eating more than I think I am.

I'm going to track very carefully now and still aim for 1200-1400 calories a day. If I continue to maintain I'll follow your advice about getting checked up. It does seem rather low to me, especially because I generally get in activity every day. I do eat back some calories after long runs, but that's about it. I'm only 25 with a fair amount of muscle mass, and the TDEE calculators put me around 1900 or so for maintenance.

Thank you again for this wealth of information!

Hey indiblue! Thanks for posting your update.

About TDEE--it took me over a year to finally understand that TDEE from calculators is just too high for me. They were giving me calorie numbers of 1700-1900, depending on which one I used. Well, I wanted to be able to eat that much! Doggone it! But the reality is, my daily burn is lower than that. I found this out by fighting and struggling and regaining and relosing until I just had to stop for awhile.

At this point I'm trying to get back down to my previous goal weight, but I no longer am concerned about whether I can match some calculated TDEE when I get there. My main concern now is the macronutrient balance--protein, carbs, fat--and not the calorie count. (Incidentally, my thyroid continues to test as normal.) And, who knows, I may not reach my previous goal weight. It may not be possible for me now. So I have to consider what kaplods was talking about--at what point am I unwilling to make more changes and must accept my weight?

Good luck,
Jay

Kaplods, I approached this weight loss attempt similar to how you described in your post, and it has made a world of difference. Just one example: At the beginning of my weight loss attempt, I swore off formal exercise, i.e., the type done at the gym (mainly because I always dread it). I just decided to be more active for at least an hour a day, most days of the week. That has worked well so far. This fall, though, I had a hankering to participate in some fitness classes. I've been doing that 1-2 times a week. My gym recently had a special rate that ended up being cheaper than the rate I pay per class, so I joined. Last night, I was worried that I might not get in my hour of activity on Thursday & Friday because my schedule is thrown off those days. So, I decided I would go to the gym early this a.m. to work out on the elliptical, stair mill, etc. I had a small amount of dread about it last night and an even bigger dread this morning, so you know what? I decided not to go. It's not so much willpower for me as it is that I do not want to start dreading this process.

Right now, I'm typing as I walk slowly on my own treadmill, so that's my exercise for the day.

To the OP, it seems like you are so much more at peace than in your first post. Good for you!

I've been following this thread with great interest because I feel that Indiblue posed a question that many of us face.

I seemed to go through phases in my life, Indiblue. When I was fat, I felt my weight was completely out of my control and I felt somewhat alienated from my body. I didn't fully believe in cause and effect, or that I could succeed at a sustained weight loss effort. Actually, I didn't know what such an effort was like. There was lots of talk of "cutting back" but I never embarked on it systematically, like a project.

Finally, I did embark on it systematically, like a project. It took me years to transfer lessons learned from other parts of my life, like doing written work, and apply it to my weight loss and fitness. Years. (I try not to think about the wasted time.)

Then, when I grasped simple cause-and-effect, and was rewarded by results from my efforts, I realized that I did, actually, have control.

That was the point when I lost it somewhat, the first time around. Because I went from underestimating how much control I had over my body to overestimating what such control could accomplish. I thought sheer will, constant vigilance, perfect choices and highly targeted physical exertion could completely reshape my body, as if it were clay in my hands, and my muscles and tendons and fat deposits had no genetic predispositions at all.

But one of the problems with believing that I have total control is the awful burden of complete responsibility. That if I don't find and keep up the perfect regimen for a lifetime, and my body doesn't look as I want, it's ENTIRELY MY FAULT. It would mean that I failed at sustaining the effort. I was slothful, weak, governed by appetites, pleasure-seeking, short-sighted ... all those moral failings popularly attributed to fat people.

The only way out of that self-castigating loop is to acknowledge that sheer will can only manage so much. And, you know, I'm American, and a lot of the beliefs in our culture are ingrained in me, so that's hard for me to believe. In America, you're supposed to be all that you can be, achieve all your potential. If you don't succeed, it's your fault. You just didn't work hard enough. At times I have felt that my body is like a billboard for my work ethic & whether I am a good little striver or not.

My whole weight loss & maintenance is a great big flaming metaphor for how I conduct my entire life.

What I'm coming around to is, there are cultural and psychological things behind "settling" and "pushing", too. Everyone carries a different mixture of these influences inside them, and everyone works this out differently.

Me, I'm always in hand-to-hand combat with disordered thinking and behaviors.

Alas, I wish that one moment of insight into one's self & one's habits or one piece of perfectly written advice delivered over the Internet could instantly and magically end that conflict. It doesn't. Because it's the mind here as much as the body.

In the end, I have more control than I thought I did, but less control than I grew to think I did.

I think the fuel that fires this dilemma is that we're taught to see weight loss as a black or white, success or fail endeavor. We're not used to seeing it in shades of gray, and we're taught that we should only ever accept perfection.

Problem is, if we can't be "perfectly good," we often decide to be perfectly horrible.

Sinner or Saint, and we judge ourselves accordingly - we even use the language "I've been bad today," or "I'm tired of being good."

It's not about perfection at all, there are endless shades of gray. Once you relize there is no perfect, and that even "healthy" is in the eye of the beholder, it gets a lot easier.

I've really fallen in love with cost-benefit analysis. Because then I don't have to worry about what I "should" do, I look at what makes the most sense. Seeing the pros and cons, and realizing that my decision today doesn't have to be my decision next week, next month, or next year.

"For now, I'm willing to do x in order to accomplish (or try to accomplish) y."

I've given up the "stress" of trying to be perfect, or even making the "best" decision. I think we underestimate the value of "good enough for now."

saef I agree with everything, everything you wrote. For me, gaining weight was something I thought was out of my control. When I realized it was a direct result of my eating too much and moving not enough I took responsibility and did something about it. I got control over my weight before it took control of me. Now I am realizing at some point my responsibility ends and my body's own unique quirks and characteristics take over. I need to realize at some point that my weight is not me giving up or ceding responsibility- it just is what it is.

Jay your TDEE explanation was helpful. Thank you. I'm okay if I can only eat 1200-1400 a day with exercise... if that's how it's going to be. And it's a good point you make that it may change at some point. I need to be aware of that.

lin I'm with on the exercise. Some days I have enough motivation and passion to run or lift for an hour. Some days I don't, and that's okay. I try to get in a small walk or short light yoga session to at least get some movement in.

kaplods It's interesting, the "fail versus succeed," "bad versus god" dichotomies have never really rung in my head. I've never really been mad at myself or disappointed that I didn't achieve "perfection" in my eating that day. For me it's more of a cognitive dissonance that's troubling: "I wanted to do this today but I didn't."

What does upset me is when I do something I internally didn't want to do, or vice verse. It can relate to my diet, my exercise, work, an article I'm writing with someone, cleaning the house, finishing up a grad school application, etc. I intended to study Spanish today but I watched TV instead, and now I regret that I didn't follow through with what I wanted. The same thing happens with my diet. It does frustrate me when I decide that I don't want to eat dessert that night and I end up doing so. My short-term emotional decision-maker wins over my long-term rational decision-maker. (I am an economics nerd and talk about this constant battle often- well-described in the book on human economic behavior called Nudge.)

I agree with the idea that perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. I have high expectations of myself but I certainly have never been a perfectionist at anything in my life. To me it's not about being perfect, it's about following through with actions you know you want to do and would ultimately be happier for.

What a powerful post, and how well-written! The bits I've quoted really resonate with me.

I remember how disappointed I was the first time I lost weight, after a lifetime of being overweight or obese. I had no idea what I looked like under the fat, and part of me really thought I'd look like a model, even though I have a very different body shape than any model.

At long last, I've come to realise that I can only achieve so much with my body - aesthetically or fitness wise - and that knowledge has given me a sense of peace and equilibrium. Now I'm working with my body, instead of fighting it.

saef, brilliantly expressed. You can be so articulate on these topics.

RedPanda, I was not heavy as a younger person, but even at my thinnest adult weight, I was not model caliber--so I am fortunate that I never had that expectation.

indiblue, perhaps you are familiar with the Japanese phrase rikutsu-poi? What it means in English, or so I have heard, is "smacking too much of a logic that defies reality." I think that's often what the "planner within" gets involved in when setting intentions.

I like the middle path--the path that is free from extremes. I know that I can control some things, even many things; I also know that my control has limits.

I can't explain why I make some of the choices I do.

I do try to follow my intentions, while knowing it comes down to minute-by-minute decisions. I also try to lighten up and not take things so terribly seriously.

Jay

I love it. I am often hyperrational and it's among my faults. You're right, there is sometimes such thing as too much logic.

I think this is a big divide that doesn't get talked about here.

I know what I look like thin, or at least nowhere-near-fat. I was imperfect then (like, erm, everyone else including women who pay their mortgage based on their appearance) and I don't expect additional years to make my raw material any closer to cultural ideals. I think the mindset of moving from loss to maintenance, or even recognizing that it's happening, plays out differently when one doesn't have the luxury of knowing what or where a realistic endpoint is.

Exactly. When I joined a diet discussion board to lose the "last ten pounds" this time round, I felt very jealous of posters who used to say, "I used to be size x" or posted photos of their former, thinner selves. I used to think "But I don't even know what I'm supposed to look like!

(The "last ten pounds" turned out to be loose skin and the attached empty fat cells, but that's another story.)

Maria, Jay that's an interesting topic you bring up. I'm in the same boat you are. I have always been a healthy weight, except for a few blips in college where I'm pretty sure I hit the first few pounds of the overweight category.

I was really happy with the weight I was right before college- 119. I think that's what makes this difficult- I have a realistic endpoint. I still had saddlebags and thick upper arms, but that's fine- it's who I've always been and it's built into my DNA. But it's a healthy-feeling weight for me and I'd love to be there again and stay there.

But as forums like this one have reinforced, what was possible then may not be attainable now. I'm probably healthier now, based on my diet and exercise. That's what's important.