Wow, deep question...

During my big run at weight loss I got down to 152, felt fabulous and my body kept losing all the way down to 140.4lbs... doesn't sound low, but keep in mind I have thick bones, am 5'6" and naturally VERY muscular. I could zip up size 3s in teenage stores then (not wear comfortably mind you), see my ribs from the back and still had a niggling thought in the back of my head that I could lose more... Suddenly I got into my mind that 150 was suddenly fat, less than 2 months later when I got back up there I felt like a tank, regardless of the fact I looked awesome, was a very healthy weight and was a very admirable size 6 (had other issues going on at that point and I have dealt with them).

Almost 3 years later I am in the high 150s still wanting to lose more, but no longer with an urgency... in fact if I stayed at my weight and just became more muscular I'd be fine... I am a comfortable size 8 right now and would like to get to a six, if I don't I now know it's not the end of the world. I see my ribs now, I am seeing some nice muscular definition on my thighs, shoulders and great definition on my calves (they're huge to begin with). I look pretty good where I am at now, just want a slightly leaner body. I figure my ideal is in the upper140s or low 150s, if I don't get there again, it's not the end of the world... I am at a point my body is capable of tons and is very active. I don't think my weight is particularly holding me back from anything (asides from free WW meetings ).

I think part of my problem is that at that point, I associated being "thin" with being successful in all areas of my life... When I was 140 I had amazing grades, a boyfriend etc... Then the guy and I weren't working out and my eating went out of control, I had some other stuff happening too... so I started gaining and I kept wanting to be skinny to feel that success again... Thank God things are different now, not just my circumstances, but my attitude.

I think some women have gotten a number stuck in their head that is unrealistic. My mom is 5'4" and growing up her doctor kept tellinger her she should be below 112lbs... She got to 129 and was today's equivalent of a size 6 and still thought she was fat. It doesn't help that celebrities share their weights... there's a good chance that some uhm may not be entirely truthful or others just are naturally very slim... For the longest time I thought I should weigh 120... now I know it won't and shouldn't happen (my LBM has been estimated between 114 and 118lbs).

Anyway I do sometimes look at a pair of jeans I got at Bluenotes that are about a size 4 I guess and sigh that they're too small, but I don't think I necessarily need to go there again... I want to be healthy and strong, not stick thin and weak.

Cheers!

Ali

Thank you all so much for your replies on this issue. I started this weight loss journey to get healthy...Not to get skinny. My focus is still on my health, on becoming athletic, and taking care of this body the best that I can. Unfortunately that's not enough anymore. I guess what I've realized is that I will always be striving for perfection. When I was a size 20 I dreamed of being an 8. I'd never worn anything smaller then a 10 in my entire life. To me an 8 was the epitome of skinniness. The first time I fit into a size 8 I was ecstatic. But it didn't last long. Now I'm wearing a 4/6...but on my 5'2" frame that still seems too large. Right now I weigh 136 which is the high end of my range...I want to get to the low end of my range...I don't want to ever be mistaken for fat. I wish someone would be totally upfront with me and give me a completely objective answer as to how much more I should loose before I'm there yet. I can see my ribs but my legs are still very thick. I feel compelled to keep loosing until my excess tummy skin goes away. Logically I know that loosing more weight isn't going to make it disappear...I don't know what to think any more. I think the scariest part is wondering 'Is this it?'

I hope this post makes sense. I'm just throwing out some of the thoughts that have been circling around in my head lately. Thank you all for providing your input. I think what I've come to realize after reading all of your posts is to let go of the fantasy that lights and whistles and fireworks are going to go off for me the moment I'm "there"...and quite possibly there will never be a "there".

Ali said:<< For the longest time I thought I should weigh 120... now I know it won't and shouldn't happen (my LBM has been estimated between 114 and 118lbs).>>

I am 5'4" and for years thought I should get to 125 - the old insurance tables. The closest I ever made it was 128 many years ago. This lasted for the time it took to walk from the bathroom to the refrigerator. That weight goal, 125, was totally unreasonable for me. I too have large bones and carry lots of natural muscle - I am built like a fire hydrant. This is why I always thought I was fat as a teenager in the 140's and 50's but wasnt.

When I was water weighed several years ago, my bones and muscle alone weighed 125. So I was unknowinglystriving for 0% body fat. Even at 20% body fat, I would weigh 150. I am so pleased I got water weighed. It has relieved me from unrealistic goals for myself.

Jan

I saw the title of this thread, and I just had to reply!

It's a thought-provoking question... and has a complex answer.

At 5'4 and 138 pounds, I was about a size 4/6. At that weight, you would think I would be a much bigger size, but the weight seemed to distribute itself pretty evenly over my body. But my very tiny and skinny mother insisted that I was fat, and eventually, she kept saying it long enough so that I believed her. So I set out to lose the weight... and although I wasn't really successful at a 'diet', I lost about 20 pounds. So at 118, I am a size 0 in pants, and a medium on top (I'm fairly top heavy).

I still feel like I am not thin enough. My husband, who thought I was beautiful at near 140, insists that I definitely do not need to lose anymore weight.

I think it also has to do with how I perceive my body. Even though I have a pretty small waist (25 inches), I am quite busty (D cup), and I have broad shoulders... so it seems no matter how much weight I lose, I still look big on top.

Anyway... I really appreciate reading this forum. It makes me feel a bit better to read about your stories and know that I am not alone.

Some posters have put me in mind of an important angle of this problem: Eating Disorders.

I read a very sad letter in a woman's magazine about a large woman who began losing weight and ended up with an ED.

I don't want to scare anyone, but for any of us out there who have/or had serious issues with food (myself included) could be at risk.

If you ever feel your attitudes spiralling out of control act NOW, get help!!

As for me, I am still 30 pounds away from *goal* but I know I will be flexible as I get closer. I have also been VERY skinny before, so I have an idea of what my lowest weight should be (about 110, no lower than that) I may feel I need to lose some more, I may feel that I don't have to go quite down to 130. We'll see ...

Hi,

I'm a very occational poster...but I love this site. I used to be here all the time, til I started working again. I feel strongly about this thread. I'm 5'4" but carry all my weight in my hips. So when I was 138#'s, I was a size 10. Now at 117 I'm a 4 or 6, and a 2 or 4 in the "run big" clothes.

When I was wearing a 10, I would have given almost anything to be back to the size I am at now. Yet now I'm thinking 113 or 111 would be a better weight for me. I have this problem where II cannot see my own progress. The only thing that works is for me to look at pictures, but even then I see myself with a big butt and wish my weight was less. There is something motivating for me about having a new goal, although it can become too much of an obsession as well. I still struggle everyday to not binge and not relieve my stress, boredom, anxiety, etc w/food.

The whole body image/reflection issue is huge for me. I see other women and I automatically assume I am twice their size, even though I'm not. And this thinking feeds my desire to lose more.

I honestly am not sure how to every really be happy with my weight. It's never enough, but I wish I didn't feel that way.

On Thursday I had a little fit of this. It wasn't 'was I thin enough' really, it was more like 'do I look good enough in this?' I wanted to wear my hipsters and a snug shirt but my belly would not cooperate. I couldn't face the thought of holding it in all evening so I changed to a looser shirt.
I may watch my intake for a couple of days and I may pay more attention to the effectiveness of my ab exercises but .... I'm pretty sure it was a bloating thing and I'm probably not going to worry about it much.
TROUBLE ... I think would have been thinking "Oh gosh I need to lose some more weight!"

I'm 5'4 and fluctuate between 125 and 128, depending on the time of the week, phase of the moon, etc. I wear mostly 2's and 4's and haven't lost (or gained) any weight in a few months. My problem is I think I overdid it on the cardio during my dieting phase so I ended up with a very bony upper body with slightly pudgy lower body. I wish I could move some of that thigh up to my bumpy shoulders!

That's just the way it will have to be for now - it's a bit distressing to be at a normal weight and still be 'jiggly' but I don't think losing any more will be healthy.

featherz -- Do you weight train at all? I really think that weight training would put your body back into proportion leaning out your legs and making your shoulders and back wider making your waist look smaller you could trick they eye of the beholder, so to speak... If you are already doing weight training, maybe go heavier to make the muscles pop through your bony upper body with slightly pudgier lower body... If you can get a trainer too he could certainly help you do this ...

Yep, I weight train 3x/week with heavy weights and low reps. My waist is only 23", so it's pretty small to start with, it's my thighs and tummy pouch that won't go away!

My problem isn't the weights, it's that I don't think I was eating enough to actually build any muscle mass. I'm working on that now, eating more to fuel some muscle gain. I might gain a little fat with it, but thems the breaks - I want to look fit, not scrawny ..

Oh, Having said that you do weight train, maybe not eating enough is true... or maybe not eating enough lean proteins, lean meats, fish, chicken, eggwhites... I try to eat at least 130g or protein/day. I also eat 5-6 times/day this also helps feed the muscles...

I eat nothing BUT lean meats, eggwhites, oatmeal, etc. 150+gm protein a day, most days. And always 6 meals, 2.5-3 hours apart. I'm pretty sure I was just overtraining and not eating enough, but time will tell!

Back on topic - maybe one of these days I'll sit down and say yep, that's thin enough!

Will I ever be thin enough? NO.

I must admit that I can never have a "thin" body. My heritage gives me bones and curves ... to me "thin" is more like the ballet dancer's body. Back in the 60's it was Twiggy and Mia Farrow, today I guess it's Paris Hilton and the like that are the thin icons of the day. Even as a kid who wasn't overweight, I was never thin. I come from good old peasant stock, and we are more muscular and curvy.

My body is more along the lines of Mary Lou Retton.... but taller. I remember watching her at the Olympics thinking how lean and muscular she was compared to some of the other's that were so thin boned, so when they added muscle and body fat - they stayed thin looking. I knew to the core of my being that I would never be considered "thin" and I would never really be or feel "thin enough".

I've got bigger wider bones under the muscles and fat - so my goal is the Susan Powter title "Lean, Strong and Healthy". That I can do.



Now, about "feeling" thin. I remember when I first dropped into the 170's I felt so thin and light on my feet. I had lost over 80 by then. After I maintained around 145 for a period of time... when I gained to 165 I felt sluggish and heavy. My body mind-set had changed. If I didn't monitor and counter my run-away thoughts, I could almost feel about my body at 165 what I felt in the 250's. Some of the feelings came also cuz I was off my exercise for 2 months, and had started to eat more processed foods too. But still, it was an eye opening moment for me to see how fast my perception could change.


I must say that around 145 I do feel lean, strong and healthy. I am working patiently to get back there for Spring. But along the way I am taking time to explore some of my negative eating behaviors and negative eating thinking. I'm not rushing, for I think there is a lot of important mental work for me to do at 10 lbs over my lean, strong and healthy weight. I still need to find the answer to my own question "why did I have to get 115 lbs overweight before I stepped in to rescue myself?"

I have some answers now to the question "why 20 lbs...?" But not the big one. It's been on my mind for probably 10-20 yrs now, with different high weights. I've marvelled at how some folks step in at 20 or 40. But for me it's always been an ever increasing higher number. It's almost like I go into a fog and don't come out until I'm heavier than I was the time before. So now, I want to poke around in the fog for a bit, but with one leg on solid ground so to speak.

I am so proud of me for getting the first 10 of the 20 off, and seeing it as important to address early. I didn't beat myself up over gaining it, or turn myself into a drill sergeant to loose it. I've taken a more gentle approach....... some may even say mature approach.


Allie
still up a few, but still maintining 100 loss for 10 months

Hi Allie, one of the best things I ever did for myself with respect to dealing with a significant weight problem was to figure out why I overate to get to 250 pounds in the first place. Their is an explanation out there. And just like finding a new eating lifestyle, its different for everyone. Not everyone is interested in this quest, and they dont have to be. You can be successful without it. But for me it was important, and I suspect it is for you too.

So how does one find that big 'why' answer you seek? Youve got to start investigating and find books that speak to you on the subject. Some make use of a competent therapist. There are many recovery books out there, some good, some not. One I especially like is Laurel Mellin's The Solution since it deals specifically with eating dysfunctions. Or her follow up book, The Pathway which is more general. See if your library has it and look thru the recovery parts of it. You can also look in the recovery section of your bookstore for books written in the past 10 or 20 years. Most deal with alcoholism and other compulsive behaviors (many erroneously still think compulsive overeating is a matter of no willpower or worse), but when you read, substitute the word 'food' for 'alcohol'. Its mostly a similar set-up while growing up that causes compulsive problems be they food, shopping, alcohol, work, etc.

Feel free to ask more in a private message if you wish.

Jan