Neuro, do you have a maintenance range/red line? It's just not humanly possible to keep yourself at the exact same number on the scale every single day. Why not give yourself a range of weights which are all okay? So you goal was 120 -- suppose it's okay for you to weigh anywhere from 118-124. Then when you get to 124, you have to do some work to get back down, but as long as you are below it, you're okay and you shouldn't worry about it.

Saef, what a great dessert idea- I love the idea of pudding mix in nonfat yogurt. I know exactly what you mean about the "shoveling it in" in a mindless methodical way. That's exactly what happens to me as I start to transition from normal eating toward binge eating - for me, it's the step one step away from disaster. I hate that feeling, as well as the tight-belly, hard-to-inhale feeling that follows overeating (and the knowledge that I've lost control yet again). I've gotta ask though: was it really a bad idea to let your friend visit and enjoy her company, or was the bad idea to try to get in your customary amount of exercise and extra worktime along with it? I cringe at the idea of getting up at 4 am not because I'm not a morning person, but because as a doctor with a keen interest in healthy lifestyle research, I know that most folks need at least 7 1/2 hours of sleep a night, and those who exercise more than an hour a day need on average an extra 45 minutes to feel and function at their best.

Shannon, exactly. Did you keep raising your maintenance range because you found it impossible to lose back down to the prior goal weight, or because you said to yourself that you still liked what you saw in the mirror so there was no need? Did you start gaining pounds while keeping calories and exercise levels identical?

I refused to weigh myself today because of overeating last night, and knowing I'd be too demoralized by a yet-further gain. Instead, I have exercised every day since I got off hospital duty (all of 3 days, I know) and ate 1200 calories today in an attempt to compensate for yesterday, and will weigh tomorrow.

Yes.

Seriously - initially I got breast implants, six months after entering maintenance, which gave me an extra 2.4 pounds right out of the gate. I adjusted maintenance range for those. Moved up to 120-125 then as I remember.

Hung out fine there until about October of 2009, taking me to the first year of maintenance. During that time I started running and really amped the strength training. After the first year I started to slide up. Moved the range up to adjust because I still felt great and liked my look, was actually a little smaller even than the year before, and three sizes smaller than when I started maintaining. About May of 2010 I gained a few pounds and dropped two inches off my waist, so moved the range up again, I think that one was to 123-128. I also believe it was from the strength training I had added in during the previous year. I felt firm. Noticed over the next six months that I stayed in the higher part of that range and that my water retention days were at 130, taking me to the end of the . Moved the range up to 130 at the top because I liked my look still, pants were still great. Towards the end of the year I started to feel squishier - I know that I ate more then, and have for the last six months or so. I'm working now on coming back down. I'm okay with the 130 on heavy days, not the 136 I see sometimes now.

So, to the main question - did I keep my cals and exercise the same and gain? Initially, yes, at least from what I had been. I was one who ramped exercise up when I hit goal, instead of the other way around. I know that I gained muscle during that time - I was running and lifting weights. Moving my maintenance range then didn't bother me a whit.

In the last eight months, but particularly the last three, I've kept my exercise the same and increased food and gained. Not a big surprise there. I moved my range up earlier this year, more as a feel good than anything else. Now I'm thinking it gave me a false sense of security and it is going to come back down.

Shannon, thank you that was enlightening. It's interesting to see that there are both "good" and "bad" reasons to move the maintenance range up. I fret quite a bit that many women in my height range have goal/ maintenance weights that are often 10 pounds lighter than mine (and are sometimes aiming lower still), but I'm reasonably happy with my shape at this weight and suspect it is exactly because I too have incorporated weight training along with cardio for many months, and have substantial muscle mass.

Jessica, I believe my maintenance range is exactly what you suggested; 118-124. My problem is that I'm really scared to let myself get even to 124, and seem incapable of getting/staying below 122, which makes my "real life" range only 2 pounds; 122-123, and THAT is extremely difficult, as you indicate.

I am leaving for a 2-week trip to Paris on July 14th; just me and DH, though the first week I am attending a Neurology conference and will be quite busy all day. Still, it will be awesome to go back to Europe for the first time in over 5 years (not counting London, where I have family).

Weight maintenance is strongly on my mind; I will of necessity be doing only jogging and body-weight training during our vacation, and the food options will be mostly out of my control. Do any of you have experience with ordering food in Paris? Will they put the dressing on the side, leave off the sauce and grill instead of fry if you ask? Are there certain types of places that are more apt to have lots of (steamed; grilled; raw) veggies in their food? Did you end up gaining more than a couple of pounds?

Have a great 4th of July everyone.

I think

Shannon, we've known one another for most of this brilliant transformative journey of yours. I remember when you took up strength training seriously and the excellent results you got. What I also remember is that you were here a lot: posting about your results, excited, discussing hiccups along the way.

And then I noticed I hadn't seen you for a bit, or at least as much. I wondered what had happened. I suppose I put it down to a busy real life or something like that. And the weight training board has dropped off rather.

You've told us here that you've been eating more for the last six months or so. Have you got any comments about the last six months? Is it private stuff to do with your real life? (That's looking for a yes/no answer, no need for detail if you don't want.) Were/are you bored? Was 3FC offering you the right kind of support? Anything that can help the rest of us? Anything that we can help you with?

For what it's worth, I have put on rather a few pounds in the last couple of months. We can summarise the reasons as being lack of time/fitness to put in sufficient exercise (doing physio exercises not my usual ones), sheer bloodymindedness (this is childishness associated with my dear SO's undear family and will soon be over), and work frenzy/boredom in my business world.

neuro Interesting things emerging from this thread. Thanks for starting it.

Birchie - thanks for your post, it made me tear up a little. The last few months have been busy at work and busy in my personal life, both of which combined together to equal not talking as much, per my usual pattern. I tend to withdraw when I'm in that place - stress leads to withdrawn leads to not as much of a support network leads to eating too much leads to more withdrawn and stress and not talking, though then more out of shame than stress. I have been still exercising, I just haven't talked about it as much, particularly in the weight training thread. At least lately I have.

I have been working to get back accountable and open in the last few weeks, but have had moments of crazy that interfered.

I also may not have talked as much lately because I've not been doing anything that I feel is particularly new. No new exercises, no new routines, just the same ones I've done before. I sometimes don't post about that because it seems a little dry, even to me. There have been a lot of discussions lately about boredom with maintenance, and maybe I've found myself a little bored in a lot of areas. I need to spark myself back up. I've also found myself in a spot where I've felt like everything was futile, nothing was making a difference anywhere so why bother. Am coming back out of that, too. Slowly.

3FC has been very supportive when I've been here, and lots of great folks have noticed I've been stressed and asked questions, which has been fabulous. I've also found another board that I post on as well, and they have been supportive, too. I've just not taken the opportunity to utilize that support.

I've actually wondered about you lately, too - how are you doing?

Andrea - when I was in Paris I didn't worry too much about the food, so I don't know how they will be with special orders or changing. I do know that I did a lot of walking, so somewhat bad for me food didn't hurt me and I actually lost weight. Things were fresh most everywhere, so I didn't feel like everything I ate was stocked with preservatives. Oddly, my favorite food while I was there was from a Greek restaurant. And I don't think I had fried food at all during the eight weeks I was in France, except for the day we went to McDonald's. Have a great trip!

I see I typed a random "I think" down at the bottom of my post. Didn't realize I did that- not even sure now what I was thinking. Sorry.

Thanks Shannon; I'm encouraged to hear that you lost weight in Paris (not holding my breath there, as bread and crepes are probably my favorite foods in the world). Yes, I've heard that the French tend to use fresh ingredients and make things from scratch more than us Americans, but also that they put butter and/or cream in just about everything.

Weight average is still 122.4 for the last 7 days. Guess I'll call that acceptable. Shannon and Silverbirch, I admire both of you for not quitting when the going got tougher. Surely, weight maintenance can't be the sole focus of one's life, but for those of us who are not "naturally thin" (whatever that means) it takes a constant vigilance that you can't let slip. It's that tension between needing to pay attention to everything else, and never ever being able to stop paying attention to diet and exercise that makes it such a challenge. I remember being asked at work, a few months after the birth of my second child, what I thought was the hardest part of my job as a doctor. Without hesitation I replied that my hardest day on the job was still easier than being a mother, because I got to GO HOME from my job, but I was "on duty" as a mother every single night, relentlessly and permanently, no nights off ever. And that is pretty much how I see the task of weight maintenance. Not necessarily a horrible thing (I love being a mother), but it needs to be kept in mind even when life tries to get in the way. And you are both doing that.

Have been allowing myself to have an extra serving (or two) of Kashi cereals after dinner the last few nights, before my 8 pm cutoff. Not terrible, but not part of my plan for the day and I really need to stop. I'm committing right now to NO FOOD AFTER MY PLANNED DINNER until I leave for Paris. Which doesn't mean I'm planning to binge in Paris, just that I know I won't have pre-planned meals there.

Shannon. Sorry, I didn't mean to make you cry. Thanks for thinking and asking about me. I think I'm stronger than I was. My thighs are bigger which is a source of annoyance. It's muscle pushing out fat and I'm finding it very difficult to lose this fat. My tummy goes up and down in fatness (up at present) but my waist is pretty small (about 28"-29") so I'm pleased about that bit. I've picked up this back/leg injury over the last 8 yrs or so and I'm working on ironing it out and retraining the mind-muscle pathways so I can run again. But I think I'm moving quite well (I pretend I'm a dancer a lot of the time) and my posture's good which contributes to people thinking I'm a lot younger than I am. Water, veg, a much younger partner and a young son all help too, in my opinion.

Maybe it's part of the ageing process, but I'm more interested in the (positive) health and happiness angle of weight loss than in (negative) fretting. This could also explain why I'm not a very good or efficient loser!

I seem to have rambled a bit. Here, rambling roses are in bloom and I do have the English rose complexion so that's appropriate, if you'll permit a bit of licence. We've off on a national tour (his fam & a wedding, my work, and a bit of R&R) but I'll be reading.

Neuro, bon voyage! I don't know how you drink coffee but the Parisian for 'cafe au lait' is 'un cafe creme' or, better, 'un creme'. (Can't do accents here.)

Andrea - I have to be very careful with the Kashi cereals. I love them, and will very quickly overeat them if I don't weigh everything out carefully and limit myself to the planned servings.

Birchie - it was a good cry, one of those 'people notice' moments that made me feel good. Enjoy your travels!

Maintenance definitely does take vigilance, I agree with that. I would like to think that it didn't, but over time it seems to take more attention rather than less. Maybe that is because over time I am tempted to let my good habits slide so have to work harder to keep them back in check?

I'm back comfortably in my normal pants v. my one size larger bloated and gross pants and I like it. So the extra attention has helped, and must continue.

So my planned dinner tonight was miso soup, scallops, rice, stir-fried veggies then a 1/2 c. of Breyer's Blast cookies and cream (130 calories). I was feeling fine before the dessert (comfortably full) but felt like I was "owed" my planned dessert, so I ate it. As soon as I finished it, it triggered a desperate mouth-craving for cereal and nuts. I ended up having a cup and a half of Kashi puffed cereal (dry) and a tablespoon of almond butter right out of the container. The only reason I didn't have 2 spoonfuls is that my husband came home in the middle, and I was too embarrassed to "double dip." So much for my resolution (see above post, all of 3 nights ago).

I used to be able to have a small after-dinner sweet treat and be satisfied with it. Why now am I getting insatiable "more, more, I'm still not satisfied" cravings from rational portions of desserts? I can't stand the out-of-control feeling I'm getting at the end of/right after dinner each night. I feel like I'm just a baby step away from a full-on binge NEARLY EVERY SINGLE EVENING. And even though I manage to pull back from the brink, I still end up consuming 200-300 extra calories, which amounts to most of the calories I've burned during my exercise session for the day (and, oh yes, I didn't get to the gym today either). The trigger isn't even always a full-on dessert; even the wearing off of a sugar-free gum's sweetness can set it off, as can certain complex carbohydrates (esp. pasta and bread). I adamantly refuse to eat a low-carb diet because I don't think it's healthy, and I shudder at the idea of having to give up all sweets. I keep thinking that I've managed to lose 40 pounds without resorting to extremes, and I shouldn't be turning into a neurotic mess now. Part of me wonders if all this intense self-scrutiny is part of my problem.

Thursday's weigh-in punished me with 123.2. Back to 122.6 this morning but 7 day rolling average reached 122.8.

Hey, guys! I lurk here a bit, and noticed your post, Andrea. Can I butt in for a second?

I have no idea if this will help you, but over time I have noticed a definite correlation between a high protein/fat breakfast and my end-of-day cravings. Specifically, the lack of cravings. On days when I have my egg sandwich (1 egg+1or 2 whites, thin slice of sharp cheddar, turkey bacon on 2 pieces WW toast) I am much less likely to have that "munchy/craving/sweet" feeling at the end of the day. On days when I'll have a breakfast higher in carbs, with the same approximate calorie count (banana and PB on a WW wrap; yogurt and fruit with oats) the after-dinner sugar jones often shows up.

I don't eat low carb, although my food choices have become more low-ish carb, around 150-200g per day. That's more for blood sugar reasons than anything else. I feel better around that level.

So, throwing it out there, could it be when you're eating your macronutrients, not what they are? Or, I could be crazy. Always a possibility.

For me, anyway, a binge or near-binge is rarely about the food. It's about unexpressed anxiety, often not even articulated clearly within my own consciousness. Something is weighing on me. I need a release. Or I feel I deserve to be soothed & compensated. Sometimes bringing the worry to light helps. Unfortunately sometimes it doesn't. Even while eating, I say, "Yeah, right, this is not taking care of your fear of not getting it all done/presenting at the all-company meeting/handling three projects simultaneously till noon today." And still continue for a moment longer before pulling in the reins.

My most recent binge -- stopped in the middle, as they all are these days, though this was the first one that proceeded that far in maybe a year & a half -- came about late after a horrible day at work, which had started at 7:45 AM & lasted until 7:30 PM. I got home feeling worked over, inadequate, too wiped out to hit the gym. (That was the first sign: Usually I can work off tension through cardio. But I was beyond that, in some new red zone of stress.) That unresolved tension played out finally a few hours later through my overexcited consumption of the dessert that I'd "deserved" to have because of my hard day. I knew what I was doing, decided to proceed, and then just as clearly, decided to stop myself. I was so clearly "acting out" that it was apparent even to me.

This may not be true for you, but I know it's what happens with me. Recently I've been on a Red Alert for Bingeing: This past week, my state of tension & anxiety had mounted to that certain level where I am more likely to binge. I have not, but by now, I know the premonitory tremors.

It's not about the food. The eating is an expression; it is a metaphor for permitting myself to lose control & to seek oblivion through pure sensation, through tasting. It's a sign I've abdicated from all the standards that I tend to hold myself to.

I wish it had to do with carb consumption, but the only connection between the binges & carbs is that restriction of something makes me more likely to choose it for bingeing later. Because to express myself, I have to use the Forbidden Thing, the Thing I Restrain Myself From Having. It could be any foods, but carbs are what I watch, so carbs are the food of choice to show that I'm not being vigilant anymore.

Andrea - I find myself with the 'more, more, more' cravings in the evenings a lot, too. I initially thought that they were triggered by other carbs, but that isn't consistent. I am less likely to hit a sugar crazy when I've eaten a lot of protein during the day, and oddly, when I've had 100oz or so of water. I wonder if I'm just too full of liquid on those days to crave anything else. Like Saef, if there is a food I'm limiting I find that it is the first thing I run to on the cravings, so I try not to cut anything out completely.

The self scrutiny might be a trigger - I find on days I am more specific (read obsessed) on tracking food that I am more likely to pop off into the candy drawer before bed.

Thanks for starting this thread Andrea. I've tried to post in the "chat" thread from time to time for accountability, but find it hard to keep up with everything and everybody. I just don't (usually) have time to post to each person individually like they do. I just want to spill it out and move on to the next crisis!

So my crisis now? Binging. I've been in binge mode since my "anniversary". After reading Saef's post, I think I'm trying to self medicate again. Why do I do it?. Today I weighed 148. 8 pounds over my ideal weight, 5 pounds over my red line. Last night I ate peanut butter by the spoonful right out of the jar...until it was gone. (Plus some yucky cookies I don't normally like, and puffy peppermint candies that I have NEVER liked.) I didn't think about it as being anexiety until I started thinking about what is going on right now. My dear Father-in-law is very ill, and has been refusing to go see his doctor. I went behind his back and made an appointment for him, and my husband is on his way now to take him in. He's been passing large amounts of blood and is so weak he can hardly stand. He's ready to die...wants to die at home, and wants us to sit and "deal" with it.

We were supposed to leave Saturday for our New York City vacation and I'm pretty certain we won't be going. I'm actually pretty certain at this point dear FIL won't be coming home...He's 90 and hasn't been doing very well for awhile now. Dear MIL is a basket case, and depends on us so much. We have been driving to Lincoln several times a week now, (80 mile drive) and they refuse care from anyone except us. I'm sad, mad, angry, then feel guilty that I feel upset with 2 little people who have been so kind to me for the last 25 years...Food is not the answer...Food is not the answer....Food is not the answer....Food is not the answer.

Today I will not binge, and I will remain in control to support my husband.

Hugs to you and your family Lori.