I think this pretty much says it all ... empirical evidence.

Rhonda, the huge amount of estrogen that I had stored in my fat all got dumped into my system during the year that I lost weight and threw me right into premature menopause at age 47. My periods were as regular as clockwork until I started losing weight, then I didn't have one for three months, then it was on again, off again for a few months and then nothing. My gynecologist did blood work to check on hormone levels and said I was in menopause. He said just what you did, that all that excess estrogen was released from the fat cells all at once and - for whatever reason - it just shut me down.

I'm one who is told by my doctor to avoid soy products due to hypothyroidism, so I've never consumed many. The weight loss alone seems to have had enough of an effect on my estrogen levels without me adding in soy!

As an aside, the more scientists discover about fat, the more they realize it's not an inert substance but is a major endocrine and hormonal system itself. Being obese profoundly affects our hormones and is now being linked to so many diseases, especially those affecting women. It's sobering.

"Soy products have been a part of the standard diet in China, Japan, Indonesia, and other countries for centuries. In these countries, it is known from personal experience that soy products can play an important role in disease prevention. On the other hand, heavily-processed, genetically-manipulated (non-organic) soy, or overuse of soy can be unhealthy

By sampling traditional dishes from Japan, China and Indonesia, it can be seen that soy products make up a small to moderate part of the diet. Vegetables, whole grains, lean meats (e.g., fish), other legumes, etc. make up much of the diet. Such a balanced diet with the addition of ocassional use of small amounts of soy products provides the maximum health-building and disease prevention benefits. It is best to avoid getting sucked into any future "soy supplement hype" and stick to ocassional, small intake of healthier organic soy products such as tofu, tempeh, miso, soy milk, natto, tamari and shoyu."

Seems to me, from what I have been reading here. At least small amounts of soy in the diet isn't going to hurt anyone. Thought about letting the family know I am going to try some. Maybe mix 3/4 beef and 1/4 tofu and make Chile. See if they like it like that.

Thank you so much.

I have noticed that when I'm on-plan and losing steadily, I tend to get very emotional, my migraines start up again and I begin to retain water. I use bioidentical hormone therapy and I always have to adjust my dosages when I'm on-plan.


Yes, this is very sobering. In the 80's, we were told to be "proud" of being fat. The reality is....the fat is killing us. This is even more reason for us to lose the weight once and for all.

Does anyone know how much you can substitute for beef without changing the taste?

If you are using TVP (which is the best bet for using in chili), I would start with 1 part TVP to 2 parts whatever else you are using. The texture and flavor should be very similar.

Thank you so much.
Going to talk to the family about it this weekend. If they are receptive I am going to try it.

Part of the problem is that it's impossible to clearly establish cause-effect relationships outside of experimental research, and it's very difficult to do good experimental research on these complex nutritional issues because you can't establish good controls. It's a bad catch-22, and people trying to make informed choices are left at wit's end!

So we have all these causal statements, like "soy causes xx problem". But most of the evidence consists of case studies or correlational studies, and neither can address causality. Correlational studies may show eating soy is related to xx problem, but cannot establish soy caused the problem. Something else could be the culprit. Something else related to soy consumption and xx problem, perhaps.

I think if a lot of the research showed a correlation between soy and a disorder that I had, I would certainly want to be cautious about eating soy, because although it's not causal evidence, soy causing the problem is certainly one possibility.

But we need to be aware that a third variable (which we don't know about) could be involved, and avoiding soy may not solve the problem.

All of which to say: for most of us, moderation is probably not a bad idea.

Heather
That was one of my worries. I have read allot about reproduction problems and such. My daughter is 17. I didn't want to find later that something I was feeding her caused the problems.

I don't eat soy because it's not good if you get kidney stones (I do). That's all I know about it.

I think that it's impossible to avoid soy at all costs unless you are only eating whole foods. Soy is added to almost everything and it isn't always listed as soy (ever heard of lecithin?)

I think if soy really does cause problems it's due to the fact that it's everywhere and it's usually genetically modified and/or so chemically processed that it's unrecognizable. This is probably why it's not a problem in the Asian diet. They eat it in moderation and in forms that are recognizable as soy.

On the estrogen front, plastics are a culprit too. There are chemicals in plastics (and ones dumped into the environment during the plastic making process) that can mimic estrogen in the body.

Honestly, there are so many different things that can contribute to the various problems we face. I don't think it's always possible to say that something is caused by one certain factor.

Possible ways to get info on soy:
Nutritionists who know a lot of vegetarian/vegan eating
The Vegetarian Resource Group (has a website)

I agree that the issue of early-onset puberty is important. The risk of ovarian cancer increases in proportion to number of ovulations cycles one has over a lifetime (this is one reason breastfeeding is healthy--it cuts down the total number of times you get your period). For my own daughter (and family health overall), we don't eat meat and we buy organic hormone-free other stuff as much as possible (and I did switch us from dairy to soy milk--I think this "Milk Your Diet" stuff is propoganda from the dairy industry).

I am not a dietitian or a lobbyist for the soy industry--these are just my opinions based on my own extensive research.

I've asked this question in the past as well. At one point a few years ago, they were telling us that women who consumed soy (not a lot of soy, mind you, just soy) were at greater risks for breast cancer. Now they are telling us that the study was flawed and they are rethinking it. It is mind boggling. How do we know what to eat?

On the ground beef issue - we've pretty much cut it out of our diets unless we grind it ourselves. That way we know how much fat and what parts of the cow are in it. We make what we call "a meat mixture". It is part ground turkey (the dark because it has more flavor) and ground pork. We mix it half and half. We then pack it in quart freezer bags and whenever we want chili, we brown that. We've used it to make Italian and Mexican meatballs for soups or whatever. Just season it up and you really can't tell the difference except you don't have a lot of fat in the pan after browning.

If you are making something Mexican with it, just use taco seasoning and some additional cumin.

Oh, because it is a lot less fat, be sure and brown it at a lower temp. You'll burn it otherwise.

I think almost any substance on the planet can be dangerous in some quantity or circumstances. Even water. Water intoxication was once nearly unheard of except in marathon runners, people trying to clean their urine for a drug test, and mentally ill people with water drinking compulsions. It's now becoming more common.

We don't do moderation well in this country. If a little is good, a truckload is better. If we hear (what basically amounts to a rumor) of a study published that indicates that there might be a health risk associated with a food item, there's an immediate response from many of us to avoid that food at all costs.

My grandfather always said, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" (a man with a lot of smarts for having not gone beyond the 6th grade).

I think it's actually rather fascinating that we jump to conclusions so easily in some areas and not others. The same person who avoids beef because of the perceived risk of mad cow disease might smoke or drive without wearing their seat belt (mathmatically much greater risks).