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Thanks, Meg, for the outline. I read the chapter and took notes , but it also helps to see what you pulled from the chapter. I hope you don't think you have to do that every time! I noticed your post was VERY early in the morning - is this a regular thing for you?

On March 18, 2002, for some unknown reason, I FINALLY knew I was going to lose the weight. I still have no idea why that day was different than any other magic Monday for me. I just woke up with the confidence that I could do it and that losing the weight was totally within my power. My question is, since Key #1 is so essential, how do you help other people get to that point? Is that even possible?

I'm especially drawn to myths #9 and #10 at the moment:
Myth #9: If you start regaining weight, you’re bound to gain it all back.
Myth #10: If you don’t stay at your original goal weight, then you’re a failure.

I'm up 10 lbs due to a vacation and holiday indulgences. Before I lost my "big" weight, 10 lbs wasn't much and I really wouldn't have been terribly concerned about gaining it. I probably wouldn't have even noticed it because I wore stretchy clothes and I never weighed myself - in other words, I lived in denial. Now, I'm fiercely determined to take off these extra pounds. Settling for being 10 lbs over my maintenance weight is not an option for me.

Along the same lines... I'm dealing with the "honeymoon" stage and the "frustration" stage right now. My slip-up(s) resulted in 16 extra lbs. Six of them came off immediately. I was enjoying the "honeymoon" stage for sure. I was convinced that all 16 would disappear in days. If 6 came off that easily, than I would be down to my maintenance weight in NO TIME! But, the scale hasn't budged for the last 5 days or so (despite being completely on track with both food and exercise) and I find myself very frustrated. I actually have to have patience and it's killing me. My memories of my several "frustration" stages during the big loss are all coming back! Thoughts of giving up, negative self-talk, fear that I will never be able to reach my goals....all that stuff. Logically, I know that I just need to accept the fact that this 10 lbs is "real" weight and will come off slowly. But, I just want it to be gone RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

Re-reading this book and participating in the discussion here is really going to be good for me! I think it will help me keep my head on straight!

Just got the book today, and am very interested.

I know I can lose weight--aside from the 5-10 lbs we lose and gain, I've lost substantial amounts twice--gained some of the last back. Want to not live as a fat person on a diet, but as a healthy person.

Oh my Meg what a perfect synopsis and soooo much work! Thank you so much...

• The honeymoon stage – when weight loss is oh so easyI never had the “honeymoon” stage...I don’t find weight loss easy at all in this last and final time of my weight loss journey. I think it’s because my weight loss is sooooo excruciatingly slow, at an average of .25# week, there is just NO honeymoon at all.... 15 years ago I did have a “honeymoon” stage but I didn’t keep it off I gained it all back and MORE ...
• The frustration stage - when weight loss becomes so hard and we wonder where the spark went ...
I’ve never had this stage either, and to be frustrated, well, I’d be frustrated ALL the time, I’m too easy going for that, I just keep on keeping on ... One day at a tiime one foot in front of the other on the
• The tentative acceptance stage – The lifestyle change stage For me, at the moment, they are one and the same I’m always learning, I have slipups, but I am also confident that I will never gain it back again...

For the moment, this is all I will post... I have some catching up to do so TTFN ...

#3 & #4 are myths?

I have accepted that I will have to be an exercise freak and eat around 1200 calories a day for the rest of my life. I have discovered that if I back off even a little I gain. I really really am ok with the exercise part of it. I've discovered running and it is something I'm passionate about.

Everyone is different I guess. I know some people are able to maintain there weight at around 2000 calories a day...unfortunately I'm not one of them.

Like Karynlee, I just knew that this time I was going to lose weight. Oddly enough my epiphany happened around the same time hers did...though I don't remember the exact day.

I am living proof that #1 and #2 are myths

My basic weight loss, the 90+lbs I lost on Weight Watchers were ALL in the Honeymoon stage for me. Asides from a "frustrating" 4 weeks when I went on the pill, my weight loss was smoooooothh sailing.

I think part of my problem in recent years is that I wanted a lifestyle that was forever in the "honeymoon" stage, rather than the real life stage. When I gained even 5lbs, I was desperate to get that spark back.... I tried other plans, exercise regimes etc... None worked... The fact was, I was no longer anywhere close to where I was when I started losing weight.

I am slowly learning that hey, eating well can involve mistakes... It's no longer glamourous or a means to an end. It's a life time thing... I just gotta keep trucking away at it.

I have the tools to lose weight and I do believe I can keep this off for life.

Cheers!

Ali

Very nice summary Meg, good work. Lots of work! Thin for Life is one of my favorite books and one of the more helpful in making me fact the hard facts to actually lose weight.

Meg's questions:
Do you/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?

*** For the first time about two years ago I truly came to believe I would lose and keep my weight off. I saw a fellow tennis player and the thought I indeed was going to be like her just came into my mind, and I knew it was true. Too bad some life problems got in the way, but now that I am back to losing, I am still convinced of it. I never felt that way before. I dont know what I felt, but it wasnt this. It wasnt a 'click', but it is different.

Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?

*** Absolutely. 95% failure rate means one in 20 can. That is me. I got tools now I never had before.

How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?

*** I think its essential. Perhaps not as much in the beginning, but over time as you approach your goal you can grow into the belief. The important thing is to start, then make whatever mental and physical adjustments as you go.

What does maintenance mean to you?

*** Remaining within a weight range that feels good, and is relatively comfortable to maintain, though I expect it to not be easy. I dont know what that final weight will be yet, and it might take some tinkering to figure out what it is. It will be an adventure. And a relief to finally make it 'there' after all these years.

Do you/did you ‘break the rules’ of weight loss?

*** You betcha, though not really. I dont follow a diet, dont keep track of grams or calories or points, though I sometimes will make a loose mental count of cals to keep relative track. I understand nutrition basics and follow good low-fat scratch cooking techniques, and do know what I am eating more than it might seem. I do keep a fairly tight reign on my food and portions. Its still calories in, calories out in a different form. If wl stalls, I will resort to a food journal or other means to tighten the ship but not until necessary. I like to read what others are doing and steal good ideas from them, Thank You Ladies, but in the end I usually do exactly what I want with my food/eating (with good health as the eventual goal) no matter what anyone else says or thinks. I know myself better than anyone else. I eat what I want, but I allow how my body feels to tell me what that is, and because I am choosing to lose weight, I freely choose to not eat certain things. In other words, I only now eat what makes me feel good physically and I also strive for satisfaction. If I have a specific craving for something I have it in moderation.

Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? How many have you experienced?

*** I have only come recently to the belief that this is a life-time change. I knew this intellectually before, but never accepted or believed it for myself. I was either on or off program. Now its just 'eating' light day in, day out, week after week. If I slip, and I do, the very next meal is back to 'light'. I however do prefer to keep myself reved up in the Honeymoon stage with high motivation because its easier to keep eating less in order to lose when the senses run high and the scale gives back something good. Because I lose slowly, and I am getting older (60) time is a factor. I motivate myself currently with 'new' inexpensive clothes from the thrift store, purchases smaller than I currently am, then try on, then wear them as I lose as victory presents. You should see the fancy things I wear around the house sometimes. I also use other gimmicks such as calendars and glittery stars, and anything else that works, even temporarily. Whatever works.

Have you ever tried to lose weight by non-dieting? Was it successful?

*** Yes, and yes. I think however Fletcher uses the term 'non-dieting' in this section of the book, more meaning 'size acceptance' rather than working on weight loss. There are non-dieting books such as 'Overcoming Overeating' (not recommended) and others that are size acceptance and do not advocate weight loss, and non-dieting books such as The Solution, Intuitive Eating, the Geneen Roth books, and more, where weight loss, improved emotional and physical health are the eventual goals. Fletcher also does not quite understand the basic concept of nd -- later in the book (TFL) she gives a rather extensive non-diet diet. That in itself negates the basic concept of no-dieting. If someone lists foods and tells you what to eat, even if they call it non-dieting, its a diet. The basic food concept of non-dieting is to decide before each meal what to eat based on what you want at that moment, not to have long-range pre-planned meals - unless that is your own choice.

Do you believe that you control your weight or do you believe that forces beyond your control predetermine your weight?

*** There is no doubt its more difficult for some than others. There are factors such as genetics that predispose one to have a certain musculature, metabolic rate, adipose distribution, and of course those elusive emotional factors, but in the end, I hold the fork.

Jan

First, let me say that my weight loss experience was not typical. I quickly lost weight with little effort when my husband deployed to Kuwait. I liked the results and wanted desperately to maintain, but I had learned nothing about myself or nutrition during the loss. I was probably very much like someone who lost weight on an all liquid diet or through illness and then had to face the real world. It's been an interesting journey so far.

Do/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?

No, I thought it was temporary and that I would eventually gain it back when my husband returned, or I felt less stressed.

Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?

Ann Fletcher's book and the Maintainer's forum have really helped me believe that I can do this and that it will get easier.

How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?

Crucial. This was so important to me. For months after losing my wieght, I would not buy new clothes, because I was sure the experts were right. I treated myslef to cosmetics, lingerie, or shoes -- things that made me feel good about myself, but that I could still enjoy if I gained my weight back.

Two things really helped me. First, I have a good friend who is very careful about her diet and exercise. I expressed my fears to her. She had been extremely complimentary of the "new me," and immediately responded "oh no, I think you will keep it off!" I had never heard anyone be so sure about maintaining weight loss. Her faith in me really got me thinking. I bought some new and expensive work clothes shortly thereafter.

When my husband returned from 8 months overseas, I had some set backs. But, due to the new clothes and how pleased I was with my appearance, I was determined to maintain the loss. I was feeling sorry for myself, because it seemed I couldn't eat anything without gaining weight. I needed to know that others were successfully dealing with the feelings of frustration, deprivation, and hunger that I suddenly felt. Through a Washington Post "Lean Plate Club" column, I learned about the Calorie Restriction Society. These were mostly middle-aged male scientists living on anywhere from 1300 to 2000 calories per day while maintaining optimal nutrition. They had been doing this very long term. Reading about their experiences gave me a huge boost. They were maintaining lean body weights for years with little feelings of deprivation and their needs were certainly greater than mine. (I'm a 5'2" female after all.) Reading their daily posts taught me a lot about nutrition and got me through a very difficult transitional period. The very existence of that group and their documented success motivated me to continue my efforts.

Now, I am so glad to have this group of successful maintainers and to have Anne Fletcher's book. I wish I had known about both a year ago!

What does maintenance mean to you?Being able to wear the clothes that I bought after I lost weight.

Do you/did you "break the rules" of weight loss?

I broke lots of rules. I ate too few calories and I did not eat nutritious food or regular meals. I went out with friends and drank and danced a lot. I did a lot of cardio, but no strength training. My "diet" could have been called the mocha latte, bugles, and beer diet.

Now, I follow a lot more diet rules. I started strength training last spring. I keep records of what I eat. I mostly follow the Zone or Body for Life approach. I have learned to cook low-fat meals and to enjoy the taste plain vegetables. I have struggled to get my metabolism revved since losing the weight. I would advise anyone to improve their diet before losing weight. It certainly makes maintenance much easier!

Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? I guess that I am in the tentative acceptance going on life-long commitment stage. I definitely felt euphoric when I was losing the weight and seeing such positive changes in my appearance and in the way people treated me.

Have you ever tried to lose weight by non-dieting? Was it successful?
I didn't really try, but that's how it worked out.

Do you believe that you control your weight or do you believe that forces beyone your control predetermine your weight?
I now believe that I can control my weight. In the beginning of maintenance, when I was trying to reintroduce more normal eating patterns, it seemed that my body was working against me. I felt that my body wnated desperately to retrun to its former weight. I carefully recorded my intake and knew that I was eating enough (maybe too much!), but my hunger was raging. Worst of all, my energy level was extremely low. I could barely drag my self out to do exercise that I had enjoyed. It seemed that something (leptin, cortisol, set-point, etc.) was working to sabotage me. I felt frustrated and helpless. Cutting back on grains, adding more lean protein, and eating even more fruits and vegetables seemed to satisfy my hunger better and allow me to maintain more comfortably. I now think it is a matter of being informed about nutrition, keeping hones records, and finding an eating and exercise pattern that works for me.

Thanks for all your hard work Meg! I have really enjoyed Ann Fletcher's book and reading about the experiences of other maintainers!

Hi I think this is a wondeful thrread and as of now I have not read the book but after reading everything here I think it will be next on my purchase list. Feb 2002 was the year that as some of you said I knew I could do it this time. The honeymoon stage went on for months as the wt just seemed to fall of even my doctor was concerned and asked when I was going to stop he actually increased my goal wt by 20lbs after he was the one to set it at 165. Did I reach my goal of 185 yes I did, have I managed to maintain it sadly I must say no, I have regained 30 lbs but am on the road again to losing it.
Yes I made mistakes, my main one being forgetting everything I learned about not giving in to stressful situations and not eating the food just for the sake of eating it. I know this is a life style change, I did not go back to all the bad habits but I do live in fear these days about that. In the past week or so the feeling that I can do this for life is starting to resurface I loved the way I looked after losing all my wt and right now I'm not so happy with myself but I am determined to get that back.
Once I get the book and start reading it I believe this will be the place for me to be. Is this book available anywhere and can I get it in Canada.
Thanks for your help after reading the posts here today I feel even more determined to succeed.

Do you/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?
Well, this is my 3rd time around losing the same 40-50 pounds so I knew I could lose weight rather easily. This time around, though, I didn't really have to struggle. It was all the honeymoon phase, all the way through. I found that the weekly results from the scale really motivated me to keep going. I think the two things that kept the results positive all the way through were: exercising for the first time in my life and the fact that I now live alone so there is no one to lead me astray!
Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?
This time around, I find that rather than having been on a 'diet', I've changed my life style. With previous WL attempts, my method of losing was that I substituted low fat for full fat and smaller portions for larger portions. I did not change my actions (never exercised) nor did I change my eating habits but just modified them. The inevitable happened and I reverted to my old habits and back came the pounds.
The pounds will stay off this time because I've changed my lifestyle completely. I exercise regularly, both at the gym and at home. If I don't go, I miss it. I eat differently. I don't 'do' fast food. I eat grains, lean meat, and lots and lots of fruit and veggies. I drink lots of water. Now I find myself craving a bowl of salad instead of a bowl of chips. If I eat something with high fat or too many carbs, I feel physically uncomfortable.
How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?
Believing that this is a permanent weight loss is very important. It allows me to say yes every once in a while to a chocolate or chip but to say no most of the time. It has really helped me to deal with the "all or nothing" mentality that made me gain the weight back every other time.
What does maintenance mean to you?
Maintenance means making healthy choices most of the time. It means stepping on the scale every morning and it means cutting back if the numbers start to edge up or bulking up a little when the numbers start to drop off.
Do you/did you ‘break the rules’ of weight loss?
When I was losing, I was following WW flex points plan and journalling all of my food choices. As they introduced their new core plan, I thought to myself, this is the kind of food that I could eat for the rest of my life. I was afraid to change though, so I kept counting as if I were doing flex points but started eating almost entirely the foods from the core list. Since then, I've stopped counting and journalling. I just eat as many "unprocessed" foods as I can and it seems to be working well.
Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? How many have you experienced?
I think I pretty much went straight from the honeymoon stage of losing to the lifestyle change stage of maintenance, with perhaps a little tentative acceptance in between.
Have you ever tried to lose weight by non-dieting? Was it successful?
I guess it all depends on your definition of "non-dieting" but I don't like to think that I'm on a diet now.
Do you believe that you control your weight or do you believe that forces beyond your control predetermine your weight?
I think I believe that ultimately, I control those forces that predetermine my weight! Before I had my children, I had this metabolism to die for. I ate 5 or 6 full meals a day, maybe 5000 calories, and never, ever gained a pound. I was painfully thin. Then I had my two children and became a lot less active and the pounds started to roll on... and on.... losing weight and keeping it off was HARD! Now, I think because of the exercise and because of the types of food I eat, my metabolism has sped up. I'm finding that I need more food to maintain my weight than I did before. I have more energy than I have had for a great many years which adds to my willingness to be physically active.

Do you/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?
Yes, I was confident that I would reach a reasonable if not slim weight.
Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?
Yes, and I have for a long time.
How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?
Very, you have to believe to make it a reality. It is very difficult to maintain a weight loss and to realize you are making a lifetime commitment.
What does maintenance mean to you?
This is a hard one. To me it is not a constant. It is an ever evolving process with both ups and downs. So for me it is to ride out the tough times, and they do happen but to enjoy the good times because they are worth it.
Do you/did you ‘break the rules’ of weight loss?
Seems that when I do the result is not pretty.
Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? How many have you experienced?
Been through all of the stages, but they come and go. Right now fustrated stage.
Have you ever tried to lose weight by non-dieting? Was it successful?
No.
Do you believe that you control your weight or do you believe that forces beyond your control predetermine your weight?
Another hard one. I do my best but at time life gets in the way. Life is sometime beyond our control. Our reactions are so thats what keeps us going.

* Do you/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?
* Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?
* How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?
* What does maintenance mean to you?

Well, maybe this sounds weird, but I didn't set out to lose weight, exactly. I knew I had an unhealthy relationship with food, and I knew I had to fix that. If I didn't, it would kill me eventually. I also knew that weight loss was a very likely, important, and desirable side effect of fixing that problem. I didn't have a weight-loss goal, still really don't have a weight goal, except in a nebulous healthy BMI sort of way. My ultimate goals were (and are) either health goals like cholesterol numbers or BMI, athletic in nature like running a marathon or learning to swim, or 'squishy' like feel or look good.

Having said that, I knew I could fix the problem, and that it would be a permanent change. That is basically what maintenance means to me. I will control all the factors I can, and within the additional contraints of genetics, environment, and my personal comfort level (what calorie deficit I can stand), my weight is gonna do what it's gonna do. Will my weight be the same at age 50? Maybe, maybe not. But for darn sure, I'm going to have a healthy (but surely not perfect) relationship with food and I'm going to be exercising!

* Do you/did you ‘break the rules’ of weight loss?

I am a counter example to every single one of the myths, except possibly the over 40 one since I'm 35 now. I pondered the 'exercise fanatic' one a bit before I said that, but when I figured it all up my average for 2004 was 1.1 hr/day. Yes, I work hard when I work, but I guard my rest days jealously to get the recovery necessary for athletic progress I need to make, and I had about 3-4 weeks of down time for illness/injury. I know most of you do at least that much as well, and I really don't think getting off my butt for an hour or two a day makes me a fanatic.

* Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? How many have you experienced?

I can go through all 4 in a matter of minutes. But I probably had a very long honeymoon phase that spoiled me. As I maintain for longer and longer, I am becoming more aware that there will be good times and bad times, hard/easy, accepting/outraged, confident/scared and that is all 'normal'. Easier to write down than to deal with, but hey, this is a discussion, right?

* Have you ever tried to lose weight by non-dieting? Was it successful?

'Non-dieting' was not successful for me. But on the other hand, I was only successful after I came to terms with the fact that I'm on a diet all the time, it might as well be a healthy one, and not a toxic or excessive one. I do create and follow a food plan, with some expectation that on occasion I must be flexible.

* Do you believe that you control your weight or do you believe that forces beyond your control predetermine your weight?

I control all the factors that determine my weight. I like Jan's 'I hold the fork' quote. But I also understand that my genetics, my history, and to some degree my environment determine what I have to work with. Obsessing about stuff I can't control is counterproductive for me. And maybe I'd love to be a size 4, but size 12 way way better than it was to be a size 24, and these are all just numbers anyway. I just ran a marathon, so size 12 must be good enough!

Hey everyone!! I almost forgot about the book discussion!! Cripes! I must have half-heimers (alzheimers for younguns )

Do you/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?
Yes I believe I can reach my goal, I don't just believe it I KNOW it!
Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?I know I will be able to keep my weight off. Along my journey I am learning lifelong lessons regarding food, weightloss, and exercise. I'm setting my limits and living by them.
How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?
I think it is very important to believe in permanent weight loss in order to acheive our weight loss goals. If we didn't believe our weight loss efforts would be permanent why try IMO?
What does maintenance mean to you?
To me maintenance means living a lifestyle thats healthy and by doing this, maintaining our weight.
Do you/did you ‘break the rules’ of weight loss?
yes I have broken out of those dieting myths, and I know I can do this!
Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? How many have you experienced?
I'm currently in the tenative acceptance stage, I haven't lost all my weight yet, I remember the honeymoon stage where I was losing quickly I felt that nothing would stop me! I remember the frustation stage, until recently I had been in the frustration period for a number of months some days I felt like giving up but I plugged along, Right now I'm beginning to accept that I can live like this I've stopped thinking of my plan as a diet but a way of life.
Have you ever tried to lose weight by non-dieting? Was it successful?
This is really the first time I've ever tried to lose weight, I've never been overweight until I had my children and my thyroid problems surfaced. When I was younger I always thought I was fat but what a joke that was LOL (5'4" and 120 lbs fat? What I wouldn't give....Ahhh those were the days )
Do you believe that you control your weight or do you believe that forces beyond your control predetermine your weight?
I believe that I can control my weight, I am in control of my body only I can control what I put in my mouth and whether or not I exercise, this is a very important question to ask yourself when you start your weight loss journey.

Thanks for the great synopsis Meg! I can't believe I almost forgot about it!!
Hello to everyone else I look forward to getting to know you all through our book discussion!!

Thank you for the summary Meg! I don't have the book yet but I am on the waiting list to get it from the library. I hope it comes in soon, I'm really looking forward to reading it. Even though I have not read it yet, I would like to respond to the questions. Here goes:

Do you/did you believe that you could reach goal when you started your weight loss?

This time I did know I would reach my goal. Not sure why, just knew it.

Do you believe that you can keep the weight off for life?

I do believe that I can, and I am certain I will.

How important do you think it is to believe that permanent weight loss is possible in order to achieve your goals?

Very. Otherwise, what's the point? How do you continue to work towards a goal that you don't honestly believe is maintainable? You must believe.

What does maintenance mean to you?

Maintenance=healthy body/mind. Maintaining for me is staying within my preset, acceptable weight range and comfortably fitting in my current size clothes.

Do you/did you ‘break the rules’ of weight loss?

Hmmm, good question. I did it on my own, but that's not uncommon. I lost more quickly that you're supposed to, so I quess that counts. I haven't regained any weight which seems to be expected from all the "experts", so maybe I am a rule breaker!

Are you presently in one of the four stages of weight loss? How many have you experienced?

I have fully experienced all four and I am certain that I am now in the lifestyle change stage. I know what works for me and what doesn't and I am confident that I have the knowledge and desire needed to never again live that miserable life.

Do you believe that you control your weight?

Absolutely. My genes may pre-determine my body type and build, but I have complete control over how much or little I weigh.

Beverly