This is often the case, I agree. If you are feeling strong, or if it's your job, you can try to get them on to a reasonable footing and try again. Sometimes it's just better to walk away.

Andrea, sympathy. The place where science meets passion is rather a strange arena. I tend to agree with Jay about giving your experiment a bit more time. The body can take a bit of time to come round to another way of doing things.

I agree. You need to give it time.

Not sure how long it has been since you reached maintenance, but FYI, from my experience, it took me over a year for my body to adjust after quitting dieting. I was doing 600-800 cals/day to get to goal, then moved to 1500 cals (around there) but added 2-3 hours of intense workout every day, coupled with binge eating and purging! That was back in 2011 and I think I'm about 1500 sedentary now. I've quit my intensive workouts and just do walks atm (okay, well, I don't but I have to!).

And I quit visiting cancer sites, too depressing.

Bargoo, I am glad you have not stopped visiting this site.

Thanks y'all. I am planning to give it more time, because I simply can't live sanely on 1200-1400 cal/day. I understand now that essentially ALL of my binging behavior is a reaction to chronic deprivation. It is irrelevant whether I can convince my mind that I'm not depriving it through psychological tricks like reframing, my body is convinced it's starving at that intake, and fights back with every metabolic trick it's capable of. I was willing to live with feeling chronically cold (I'm not cold anymore) - it was a small price to pay for being slender- but fighting against/giving in to the binges was psychologically devastating, and if I'm being honest, was also what was leading to the slow regain starting in April.

So, despite what I suspect is pure wishful thinking, I will go ahead and continue eating just under my "TDEE" (total daily energy expenditure) as it is calculated for me by my Bodymedia Fit device. FWIW, that number varies between 1900 on a sedentary day to 2300 on an exercising day, so I'm aiming for ~1800/day. I recognize that its calculations are based on population averages taken from the same formulas that clearly overcalculate my energy needs when I apply them directly, but I am trying to be optimistic that if I believe it, and "Eat The Food" long enough, the population average will become my own. I have folded and put away the pants that I can't get up over my thighs right now, and try very hard not to look at myself critically in the mirrors at the gym. I'm not sure how long I can stand to watch the pounds coming back on while hoping for the biological equivalent of cold fusion, but for now, I will carry on.

I am sorry you are going through this. I have been following your story casually and applaud you for trying to remedy the situation healthfully.

I don't know the answer exactly but am wondering if you have looked at types of nutrients and your bodies reaction? Weight gain or loss.... You are weight lifting are you eating enough protein ect. with your cal increase.

Just some thoughts....

Good luck, Andrea - I hope this experiment works well for you. The discussion has been very thought-provoking.

bargoo - good to see you pop in! I think about you often.

JZJ - I'm glad you're healing well. How did the vegan Thanskgiving dinner go?

JayEll - so that's what it's called: anti-orthorexia. Thanks!

saef - "I'll attribute this letting myself get hungry more often, just a bit less snacking, more square meals, and steady gym attendance & movement daily." Like. Much. Also very much appreciated your analysis of Andrea's forum experience. Skepticism is like chum in the ocean - it attracts predators. I'm questioning some of my old beliefs, far from the weight-loss realm, and made the mistake of thinking out loud, once. Let's just say I built some more character out of the experience.

I am starting December at 154. Ho ho ho (facepalm). I spent some of the long weekend doing some deep introspection, and decided that I'm going to mindfully enjoy the treats of the season while I make plans and preparations for a more serious attack on my extra insulation in the new year. I'm recovering a lot of strength via the pool and just moving, much more quickly than I thought I would. I need to go after that 80% = diet and concentrate more effort on portion control and fueling with best quality. New Year's Resolutions, Edition ... preamble ramble.

It went well - everyone ate the tofurkey and even had seconds. That may just be proof that you can choke anything down with enough gravy

Funny!!!

JayEll, how have you got on with buying new clothes? I've just got back from an abortive expedition. I have very little to wear (as in I don't own very much) and it's getting colder. I told myself I could have whatever I wanted. There was nothing except for one long-sleeved t-shirt. I want to look good, my bottom is much bigger than my top, end of story I suppose.

Hi, just checking in here. Read back a few pages; I hope every who is struggling continues to persevere. What Ive learned is that bouncing back up into the 160s has been reminiscent of life at 205 - sadness around choices I have made (food) and choices that are available to me (clothes). I'm trying to harness the sadness and look a little more longtime term as I make food choices.

Weight was 158 this AM, so I'm coming back down.

Clothes. Ugh. I am at the point where I NEED to get at least two new pairs of pants, but the prospect of entering a store this month makes me a little sick. I'm in that weird place with new exercise - getting bigger before I get smaller. Maybe I need to consider a pair of nice boots and some longer skirts instead.

I'm being tested. My mom's friend sent us a huge Christmas bucket from Funky Chunky. Just opening the tin (not even the bags) filled the kitchen with ridiculous smells. It's probably a very good thing that it has arrived while the scale is reading high! I am still working my way back to my normal way of eating, so this bucket is ... difficult. I think I'm just going to go with full-blown abstinence. I don't have a good track record for being responsible around crunchy/salty/chocolatey!

153 the last couple of days. Last night was a tough workout that included 3 12-minute swims for yardage; my lane covered 2150 yds in that 36 minutes. I plan to run the local Jinglefest 5K on Saturday; it won't be quite as cold as the Thanksgiving run, thank goodness. Might even be 25F.

Heidi, as I recall from the 40-somethings, you and I lose on the same small slope. Moving on to the next pound ... !

Birchie, my clothing search has got as far as ordering pants via the internet. I have some trusted brands, and I usually go with them. So that's what I've done.

If I get clothes that don't work, I send them back. This is less frustrating to me than trying things on in stores. I just pay the postage and am done with it.

I now have three sizes of swimming suits, and I plan never to be without them because I foolishly gave larger sizes away at one point and had to buy new.

I'm very fortunate that in my work life, I work in my very own home office, and therefore don't have to dress for work. I have had to go on a few business trips, however, and usually that ends up with me in a panic of buying decent business clothes that fit. Fortunately it doesn't happen often.

Jay

I thought I'd posted here lately, but I've apparently been MIA since before Thanksgiving. So catching up.

Andrea - The question you were asking about increased calorie burn from eating more food is a good one, and I want to know the same thing. I haven't found anyone who can give me clear answers on it, either.

Becky - your swims wear me out.

Ah, clothes shopping. I hate it. Hate it hate it hate it. I'm anxious at the thought of people buying me clothes for Christmas, as I feel bigger than last year, though smaller than June.

Jay, I don't have to dress up for work either which is probably how I manage with so little. I seem to manage to pull things out of the dressing-up box for events but I struggle with day-to-day things. Glad to hear you've got pants!

for all struggling with buying clothes. I'm going on another foray tomorrow to our nearby small town. (Yesterday's was to the larger town.) I've also been told there's an exhibition of clothes I'd 'really like' in an art gallery shop. I'd better go there too at some point although I can't see how people can try them on in this particular place.

Becky, thanks for reminding me about boots and skirts. A few winters ago when I had one of these crises that's all I wore.

Further on my meals (brought over from the Chat thread as it seems better here). Stand by for some pretty excellent analysis ...

... I've realised that if M2 and M4 are fixed (apple and cottage cheese), and M1 is fixed (muesli, berries, cc, wheatgerm, milk) and M3 could be fixed as it always used to be (tin o' fish, large amount of salad) then that just leaves M5. And portion control can be used on that. Plus lots of water, some tea and some coffee.

This is the plan on which I lost weight. I could do that again. Obviously I decided I could go off-piste for a bit and explore some hidden highways and byways of omelettes, nuts and so on. Back to the straight and narrow for me, I think.

Further thoughts circle around how things cannot be unlearnt (see JayEll's comment upthread). There were many things I didn't know about until I came to 3FC. Part of that is connected to our 'shared' language which is so different in different parts of the world, I suppose. 'Baked goods', for example, are something I learnt about here, having always dismissed them as 'shop cakes'. I still think they are horrible but I have eaten them now. Before I came to 3FC I never ever thought I would. Correlation does not imply causation, of course, but I'm a bit suspicious. I still could never eat fast food, though.

So, to reiterate for my benefit, Ms 1,2,3,4 are fixed. Portion control for M5. It's quite a nice plan. Roll on tomorrow!