Hey asparagus4sale!

Your post brings up another area where the numbers get to my head, and that's the bathroom scale.

When I was losing, I did not have a scale at home. I only weighed when I went to my gym or when I went to the grocery store (they have a big scale in the front). In a way, this was really good.

Then I bought a scale a couple months after I began maintenance. Now I could weigh every day.

Well, soon my life was beginning to be ruled by the numbers there also. If the morning weigh-in was up, I'd feel disappointed, even though I KNOW that day-to-day fluctuations don't mean a thing. If the morning weigh-in was down, I'd feel elated and then tend to eat beyond my calorie limit for the day.

I tried awhile ago recording my weight only once a week. The trouble was, I was still weighing every day, just not writing it down except on the official day. So I was still getting all the head trips.

I'm going to see whether I can get my courage together simply not to weigh at all except once a week. It's scary to me, even though I didn't weigh every day while I was losing--so why should it be scary now?

When things don't make sense like that it means something else must be going on--which is all the more reason to free myself from scale bondage.

So--today I weighed. And now I'll stay off the scale until next Friday.

But you know, asparagus, I've never had the problem of seeing my weight drop and then deciding (unconsciously or consciously) not to eat. I think it's time for you to schedule some meals and then eat them as scheduled. You'll still have control--you won't have to refuse to feed yourself?

Just a thought--I think you know more about it than I do.

Jay

You know what Jay? When I was losing the first time - I was the same way! I had no scale and would weigh at the gym at my work mid-day. I wasn't a part of 3FC back then but I never thought about the ritual I have read about so many times on here - weighing first thing in the morning, naked, after using the potty - haha. And that was the best I did. Maybe there is something to it because now I do have a scale and it can become obsessive.

I am embarrassed to report I did not eat anything else today after breakfast and a mid morning snack of popcorn. And the sad thing is - I feel "good" about it. It's like I am making up for my bad days - sure I ate like crap for 3 weeks but now I am eating very little so that somehow makes it better. Why is it always extremes with me?? Grrrrrr.

My scale is down in my basement - packed away. I can retrieve it to weight when necessary. One time I tried to move the scale into my bathroom. I share a very minimal, modern apartment with my boyfriend. So, when I stuck it in the bathroom, it stuck out like a sore thumb. On his way to work the next morning, he packed it back in the basement (he hates anything that resembles clutter). I asked him why, and he said something like: "Well you've already weighed yourself. Why do you need to keep it in the bathroom if you know how much you weight?"

OH DEAR! I had no rebuttal.

And for awhile I kept reading on 3FC that Dr.Oz told women to weight everyday - as if that is the magic key. He is a Doctor - but failed to take in consideration the compulsive obsessive behavior that becomes implanted in women's brains when we weight everyday. Women's entire history was dominated by the male figure and now that we are emancipated we are dominated by the scale figure! Seriously, it is a big problem that should not be taken lightly. It has the ability to control our mood and behavior the entire day.

Asparagus4sale - I understand the instant gratification and motivation SO well. That is the story of my life. Don't eat dinner two nights in a row, drop a pound.... getting used to the stomach rumblings, etc.

But that was the weight that ALWAYS came back, almost immediately. I personally could never ever sustain it. Lose fast, gain fast. bleh. Knowing that helps me avoid that behavior somewhat. Also, I swear I lost tons of muscle, particularly in my upper body and arms, during those motivated episodes. That motivates me to not do it. If you feel like you need that 'hunger' and instant weight loss at this time, then please at least eat/drink correctly. I'm assuming your breakfast was a bowl of cereal and then your snack was popcorn. Do you know how many important vitamins and minerals you were lacking? If you are 'in the moment' and don't want to lose it, could you turn it into a healthy fruit/veggie juice fast? This way, you will get your nutrients, energy, a good amount of calories, give your digestion system a break, and still lose at the rate you are currently losing. Then, when you return to normal, you won't be ravenous for different nutrients and may not gain the weight back. Just a thought..... if we know we have "episodes' of ultra motivated behavior - then why not try to make that behavior into something healthy, something beneficial for our bodies? Don't torture your body with a bowl of cereal and a handful of popcorn.

However you do it, try to turn the irrational into something rational.

((considers hiding the bathroom scale))

What an excellent idea. I could put it in DD's bathroom which is practically impossible to get into easily (her bedroom is where the kitty litter box is and the door is jammed to just the right ajar-ness to keep the dogs out). My thoughts are that if I didn't know my weight, I might try harder to lose because a week going by without a loss would be horrible....

The Zen teacher Shunryu Suzuki said, "In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few."

If you think you know the answer, then you may not see any alternatives.

Sometimes it's good to find "beginner's mind" when approaching a situation that just does not budge. What other things can be tried? What possibilities am I failing to see?

asparagus4sale, so you, too, didn't have a scale... Interesting!

bonnnie, I am no fan of Dr. Oz either. In fact, I am no fan of any TV doctor who wears silly, pretentious OR scrubs--as though they just dashed out of surgery to be on the show. I do hope they intend to put fresh scrubs on before they dash back in...

I looked at the scale this morning, and it was a knee-jerk response to think of getting on it, but I didn't.

Jay

I never though i'd be able to do it. but I only weight myself once every 3 weeks or so. I find it helps me eat mindfully and exercise for wellness.

I hadn't seen the Dr. Oz show where he said it (It is not in Germany, thank goodness), but I remember a flock of new posts in 3FC on the value of weighing everyday in relation to his advice.

I mean, it is one thing to know whether or not what you are doing is working, it is another to keep track of how your weight changes in the morning vs the afternoon. We are using so much time and energy watching natural water fluctuations. The body takes quite awhile to make any real changes.

Jay - I remember, when he used to appear on the oprah show, he'd wear a suit and then change into scrubs when he showed us the fatty abdomen, smokers lungs, or the alcoholics hardened liver! nowadays it is the scrubs all day long?

I know weighing everyday is a popular activity on 3FC, so I suppose I am somewhat avoiding taking a stronger stand on the issue because I don't want the regainer's thread to turn into a place where everyone comes to angrily defend their daily weighing activity.

I do keep track of my weight, just not with a scale. I have a pair of super tight jeans that I try on every now and then. If they still button, then I have maintained. If they are somewhat loose, then I have lost. I wore them comfortably, a bit loose even, the last time I was 145 - 150.

So, lately I've been finding Kris Carr interesting (she also once had an interview with Dr. Oz!). She was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer 5 or 6 years ago - it is in the liver/lungs and there is basically nothing western medicine can do for it. So, she is sort of developing her own healing - through eating, eastern medicine, etc. I mean, what else can she do? Well, 5 years later, she is still feeling good and her cancer has not spread at all. She said she did a complete turn around with her diet.

Now she does an 'alkaline' diet that is 80% green. So, for each meal, 80% is green and 20% is whatever else (still whole, organic foods). I don't want to attribute too much power to what we eat as dictating our health (there is also genetics, environment, stress, etc.), but I do feel like most completely divorce their food from their health, which is also quite stunning. In fact, beyond a minor awareness of the relation between food and health, I'd say just about everyone in my life does not consider its connection.

Anyway, I'm sort of thinking about this 80% / 20% thing a lot. Applying it would also be a built in calorie regulator. Everyone should really watch her on youtube - she really has such a great glow.

So, beyond my latest runner's whole foods cookbook with great recipes that fuel the body, Kris Carr also makes me excited about health. I feel like I'm in this stage where I'm not thinking about these last ten pounds, but about an overall feeling good.

Is anyone else doing this? Finding inspiration for maintenance and weight loss that is sort of outside the normal dieting sphere? Researching anything interesting?

Hey bonnnie! Oh, in the U.S. there is another show called (just as pretentiously) "The Doctors." A couple of the hosts always wear scrubs, and the others tend to wear lab coats, which is just as silly. Lab coats should stay in the lab (or the clinic)! I happened to catch part of one show at the gym one day, and the token woman doctor (lab coat and all) was demonstrating how she could jump rope wearing really high heels. Now is that stupid or what? Would have served her right to have broken an ankle, IMO.

But never mind...

As for weighing every day--I'm sure there are many who do that and find that it's no problem for them. But as for angry posts here defending it... I hope that most 3FC members understand that this thread is not an opportunity to pop in and "set us regainers straight."

I had a sad day yesterday--a neighborhood cat whom I was very fond of got badly mauled in yet another fight and had to be put down. Morris was a nice cat, but was an unneutered male. He didn't have a home--probably someone threw him out. And unfixed male cats fight--it's what they do, and they won't stop. I was feeding him now and then and trying to give him some comfort, but no attempts at catching him worked (and people tried everything)--until this last time, and he was just too weak and injured to run.

I am someone who loses their appetite when upset, and since I'm not "On A Plan" at the moment, I just let that be. I had some small things to eat, but I didn't worry about meeting any goals, targets, numbers, blah blah blah.

I bless Morris's life and am glad for all that he taught me.

Jay

Poor Morris. RIP. At least you did give him some comfort.

I did it. I didn't weigh this morning. I will not weigh until Saturday. It's an experiment and lets hope it works!

Yesterday's weather was frightful. It was rainy and gloomy and we had a 1:30 tee time. At noon we called for the weather in the area of the golf course and they said it was sunny and not windy so we went ahead with our plans. That meant running out at the last minute for a pair of golf pants to wear (I just can't golf in jeans and that's about all I have except dress pants). I usually golf in shorts and I probably could have pulled that off thinking in retrospect, but I don't like being cold. I wore my old Nike Fit running shirt and was toasty warm! But all the last minute running about meant my adrenalin was up and the first few holes were horrible! I need to be relaxed to golf properly. We'll do it again tomorrow morning and I'm hoping it'll be a bit warmer as I want to wear my new shorts, darn it!

I am happy to report that I stopped being a moron and have been eating fairly well all weekend. Plus, the weather is finally nice so I have been outside a lot and being active. I joined a softball team so I went to a batting cage yesterday to get some practice. Then I took my son for a bike ride. This morning we went fishing and in a bit we are going off to do some treasure hunting (i.e. geocaching). I made a bunch of homemade beans last night and will hit the grocery store in a bit to stock up on some healthy foods.

Bonnie - Thank you for your advice - you are right if I am going to eat a little, I should eat healthy. That is kinda why I am trying this Superfoods thing - because these are all foods I should be eating - they are good for me and will give me a better life. So, it's funny instead of feeling guilty for eating, I really should feel guilty for not eating. Kris Carr sounds very interesting - I will definitely check it out. I am trying to think how to eat 80% green - I really don't think I could do that for breakfast - sounds unappealing. But for every other meal, I think it is manageable. I will definitely think some more on incorporating that into my life.

Jay - Sorry to hear about Morris. Right before I moved to Georgia, my dog killed my cat. It was pretty awful and instead of moving here with a dog and a cat, I moved here with no pets. I never really thought about the scrubs thing - that is ridiculous when you think about it. I am indebted to Dr. Oz for introducing me to grapeseed oil, though.

The scale thing has been interesting to me. Ever since I bought one, I have found myself quite obsessed with it but when I am eating bad, I stay away from it because I don't want to see. So, I always felt like I should weigh because it is showing me that I am on track but maybe not. Maybe it is just another tool for making this while process too all encompassing which then frustrates me and I rebel against it (like with calorie counting).

Alinnell - I want to learn golf - I think it would be really fun. I was thinking about trying disc golf too but I have no clue how to play.

valpal23, my hope is to be more like you--weighing every couple of weeks "or so" pretty much just for my information, not because I will be "struck fat" if I don't weigh every day.

Goodness knows I weighed every day all through my regain and yo-yoing and it didn't help a thing--just made me feel more inadequate!

alinnell, how is your experiment going? I'm sticking with not weighing. Not even any stupid "peeks" "just to see." The only golf I've ever played is miniature golf--and that suits me just fine.

asparagus4sale, you do sound really active! I'm glad you're eating more reasonably... I'm so sorry to hear about what happened with your pets. That sounds like a horrible nightmare.

Has anyone read about appetite hormones? I guess most people know about leptin and ghrelin... Ghrelin increases appetite, and leptin decreases it. You can find many websites that allege that low leptin is what leads to weight regain, and that the website people know how to raise leptin levels. Usually these are gimmicks for some kind of supplement.

There are also many body builder sites that talk about doing periodic re-feeds during dieting to raise leptin levels. I'm no body builder, and nothing I see there proves that this would work for average people. In fact, it's not scientific information at all--just someone's idea of something that might work, and probably for some people it does. I think it's too easy to just end up turning a re-feed into days of overeating...

Anyway, this isn't something I feel like doing for the same reasons I am not On A Plan at the moment. It's just more control and counting and monitoring...

Jay

Two days and not a single peek. It's a bit scary, but I think in the long run it will work. I feel kind of out of control and because of that I think I'll end up being a little more careful. The true test will come during the regular work week. Weekends are always "different" in regard to eating. Because of the lack of control (knowing just where I sit weight-wise) and knowing that come Saturday morning I'll be weighing and understanding that any gain will be met with horrible guilt makes me think that I'm going to be trying extra hard.

It's off for another round of golf on this extra cold morning. Have a great holiday for those of you with the day off.

Oh no Jay - that is terrible about the cat. Cats have such unique little souls, it kills me too to see one sick or put down. That would have ruined my day as well.

Sarah - Kris Carr's breakfast is this crazy, super healthy green juice concoction. I haven't tried it.

I've also been incorporating the 80/20 thing... yesterday for lunch I quickly steamed a whole head of swiss chard (5-6 minutes) and ate it with an oil/acorn syrup mixture drizzled over it, along with some shelled sunflower seeds for a crunch. It tasted amazing, I was surprised.

My Monday was a bit off, I couldn't go jogging. I mean I could have went jogging but it is SO cold in northern Europe right now! So, I was a bit too sedentary yesterday..... I only worked at my desk. I surprisingly didn't have a problem with snacking between meals. Maybe I am slowly training my body to not have false hunger pains between meals? I've banished snacking.... for the most part because it doesn't make me feel the most energetic and because that is where any form of calorie counting becomes a burden for me.

Oh, and I am also interested in understanding my ghrelin better. I don't know much about it, but I know that silly hormone is sometimes totally confused in my body and in overproduction.

As far as re-feeding - for someone like me, a re-feeding would not make sense.

Even the people who seriously restrict calories to live longer, healthier lives, stay around the 1500 mark.

I think those people are also interesting! I really like the idea of changing one's mindset to be geared only to health - not to weight loss. I like to think of it as 'slowly decreasing fat storage' to contribute to my overall health. Being "on a diet" to "lose weight" is simply not interesting to me anymore.

RE: the scale discussion ...
If I don't weigh daily, that's a red flag for me -- it means I'm slipping into that <hand over eyes> "la la la I don't want to know" mode. That's how I gained 40 extra pounds to begin with.

But, OTOH, weighing daily sometimes makes me crazy. The week before last, I was very careful in my eating and workouts, and the scale wouldn't budge. Last week I ate junk food, wasn't nearly as strict, and whooshed down a few pounds. Go figure.

Although, at the end of the day, it's all about the calories-in-calories-out equation, in the SHORT term it's sometimes a wacky ride with no apparent cause/effect.

Scales -- I love 'em and hate 'em, but can't live without 'em.

Hey MBN! There is definitely a lag involved in what the scale says, and it is pretty much unpredictable. It's practically a cliche--the part about being-on-plan-and-not-losing plus the ate-fast-food-and-dropped scenarios. In fact, I was reading somewhere that when people start doing maintenance and keep losing for awhile, it's this delayed effect at work.

But who knows. The point is, no one does.

I am also frustrated by the fact that scale weight includes everything, including water retention. I don't particularly care if I weigh more because of water! That's not the issue! I do care if I'm losing lean body mass, but that's not easy to evaluate.

And that's why the scale is no longer going to be The Judge in my daily life. I hear what you're saying, MBN, about not wanting to slip into ignoring it--which is why I plan to weigh once a week. But as I posted earlier, I weighed daily all through the past year or so, and it didn't have any influence on my ability to stop the regain.

alinnell, I don't feel horribly guilty about what the scale says if it goes up. More often mystified, faintly amused, etc. When I'm in a good space, it is just data without any emotional load. And, I am still aiming for Friday weigh-in.

bonnnie... I love Swiss chard. Haven't had it in a long time. Not sure I'd want to eat the amount you did... but it does cook down... Maybe I'll try finding some. I've always liked it with just a bit of cider vinegar or wine vinegar as a dressing.

The trouble with knowing about appetite hormones is that it just adds one more thing that I can't control... The trouble I think I would get into with re-feeding is that I'm not "dieting" at the moment, and therefore any "re-feed" would just be... overeating carbs... Carbs and I have to have a somewhat arms-length relationship.

I've been staying mindful for the past few days and have felt good about that.

Jay