Money is a big, gigantic issue for everyone right now, rockinrobin.

Well, for goodness sake, that's where I wanted to be as well. I'm hoping that I can do so by practicing "moderation," which may mean something different to me than it does to most. I don't know.

I only mentioned this because you said in your earlier post that I was contradicting myself. To me it's not a contradiction. And what's that "hellooo" about, anyway?

And I just want to point out that I reached goal in July of 2007. What I'm doing now is dealing with some post-autumn weight gain--and I was trying to lose by restricting myself too much. It didn't work.

I do think that there may be significant differences between people who were very heavy, say, needing to lose 165 pounds or more, and those who weren't so heavy, say, needing to lose "only" 60 pounds. These two groups may have to approach things differently. Also, people who were always overweight/obese may be different from those who were normal sized and then became obese in later life. I don't know--I'm not a weight loss professional. Just speculating.

But even though it's often mentioned here that everyone is different, I have found that for myself, it has been easy to get the impression from posts in this forum and elsewhere on 3FC that maintenance has to be some sort of bleak place stretching into the future... This is not the only possible view.

Jay

You know, I've been here at the Maintainers forum since its inception and have never, ever, even once gotten the impression that maintenance is some sort of bleak place stretching into the future. The posts I read are ones filled with the joy and wonder and gratitude of finally, finally attaining what many of us have sought our whole lives -- and many of us thought we'd never achieve. I read posts about how fun exercise is and what a blast clothes shopping is and how much we love the food we're eating now. I've never read one filled with doubts, sadness, or regret.

It certainly would be sad if that's how anyone would view maintenance but honestly, I'd be baffled if someone picked up such a depressing vision from the Maintainers forum. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say this is the happiest forum at 3FC.

When I was nearing goal and wondering how to keep it off. I came to this forum, Meg, you were the first person I ever heard say you kept it off by doing the same thing you did to lose it. This was revolutionary to me! Guess what, folks ? It works. I now do that and am still maintaining. I still plan my meals ahead of time, still count calories, still exercise. I am not rigid about it, but find I MUST plan ahead and MUST keep in mind what will happen if I forget to plan. Planning my meals and counting calories is much preferable to having to wear extra size clothing and the health consequences of obesity.

Bargoo, you're such a shining example of how keeping the weight off is impacting your health. I know that for you weight is much more than a vanity issue and probably is a matter of life and death. Hopefully when you came to the Maintainers forum back then and read what I wrote, it didn't strike you as a bleak view of the future.

What do you make of this, Meg?

Do you call that not a depressing view? I think it's a doggone depressing vision!

Jay

After 4 years, I would say my weight maintenance emotional break down looks like this:

60% - eh, this is just the way life is, no big deal
30% - Wonder, joy "squee, look at these tiny shirts I'm folding, are they mine?"
10% - UGH WHY CAN'T I JUST EAT SCONES LIKE EVERY NORMAL PERSON IN THE WORLD

I have to say, JayEll, your comment about "unresolved food issues" struck a huge chord with me, it sent a zap of pain through my heart and I have been thinking about it off and on all night.

Don't you think I long to be one of those awesome intuitive eaters who can eat in moderation, who can stop eating when I'm full, who prefers oatmeal to scones, can easily turn down cookies at work (or eat a single cookie if I feel like it!). I don't want to plan, I don't want to think about food, I don't want to worry about what's going to be on the buffet every meal at this 7 day work conference.

I've pretty much narrowed down the "why I was fat" to 3 reasons:

1. I eat when I'm bored (I can easily trace this back to being a latchkey kid, nothing to do every day but eat and watch TV, I associate afternoons with boredom and eating with pleasure)

2. I can eat when I'm not hungry.

3. Some foods (particularly empty carby food like crackers and cookies) trigger a very odd reaction where I want to stuff more and more food in my mouth.

Sure, I have identified my issues, but they aren't resolved. I have tactics and techniques for dealing with them, but they are STILL THERE. Particularly, the weird carby, binging feeling I get - thats' hard wired biologically, how I am supposed to resolve it? I use constant vigilance - am I wrong, a failure, am I living a life of fear? That's what hurts - unless someone is trying to lose weight eating 500 calories per day, I rarely comment on someone else's methods, because I truly believe we each must find our own, unique path to success.

I had to face the fact that I will never be a normal person. I really am not ashamed to have unresolved food issues (although it can be embarassing in social situations when I have to order dressing on the side, ask for no cheese, duck and hide to avoid the girl scouts laying in wait outside the grocery store). I always thought after I lost weight, I would be normal. I don't know how to be normal, how not to think of food all the time. Even the slim, idealized intuitive-eating woman. This woman might prefer steel cut oats to a scone, but how does the steel cut oats get in her home, in her bowl (in a perfectly sized portion)? For me, I don't think it's possible to eat well by accident. If I get hungry at work in the afternoon, if I haven't planned, shopped, packed a nice crunchy apple - what would I eat? There aren't any healthy snacks lying around - the choices would be: junk out of the snack machine, cookies from a coworker's desk.

Losing weight did not change me, I am exactly the same (as my few trips off plan have aptly demonstrated to me). It requires constant vigilance for ME to fight my old self. Sure, I have so many healthy habits that at times it doesn't feel like vigilance, it just feels normal. But deep down, I know I am one dark chocolate covered graham cracker away from the old me. With my whole heart, I want to be the person who can eat one Thin Mint and stop, naturally without longing for another one, but I know that it won't happen for me. It feels worse to want the second Thin Mint than to not eat the first Thin Mint. Eating the first Thin Mint makes me feel slightly crazy, not eating a Thin Mint sometimes makes me feel sad/bad, but usually just feels like nothing (the siren call of a cookie usually doesn't happen until I put it in my mouth, when the siren call turns into a siren call for 20 cookies).

Usually, I can say I am not normal and I'm okay with it. Or I say something like this is what normal is now and I'm okay with it. It's the other 10% of the time that I struggle and feel bad, feel wrong, feel obsessed.

After all that writing, I have to remember I am a 4 year maintainer. I am currently only 2 lbs over goal, I have maintained my weight loss fairly easily. My methods work for me, and I am the only one I have to please. I will plan. I will shop. I will pack lunches. I will look up restaurant menus online before I go and make my choice. I will look up calories. I will continue to weigh my pasta, measure my salad dressing, portion my nuts. I will be constantly vigilant. I don't feel like my life is filled with fear.

Sorry for all the rambling

Jay, to me -- and possibly others -- morbid obesity is a black abyss of sadness and despair. When I think back on my years at 250+ pounds, that's exactly the image that comes to my mind. I know how easily I could slip back into the pit and that's why I liken my life today as walking on a tightrope over the abyss. I'm on the tightrope, I know how to balance, and I know the consequences if I fall.

Perhaps I'm too honest in sharing my thoughts and feelings, but that's a genuine image that drives me. I truly apologize if anyone finds what I say or write to be depressing. If you knew me in real life, you'd realize that I'm probably one of the happiest people you'll ever meet. I live every day with joy and gratitude. Every morning is Christmas morning and every day is the best day of my life since I lost the weight.

But I'm always conscious of the consequences of my actions and acutely aware of how easily my weight loss success could slip away.

I am literally shaking right now, that's how disturbed I am. I can't come up with words right now to respond, but I did scrounge up and then copied and pasted some posts from various maintainers from this recent thread, it was titled

Maintenance is:

Maintenance is being able to throw on last summer's bikini this spring break.

I will also say that I am just so thrilled beyond belief that I'm in maintenance. 19 months later and sometimes I still have to pinch myself. Did *I* just run up those stairs without getting winded? Can that possibly be *my* closet full of awesomely, incredible, fabulous, clothing????? Can that be *my* husband who has lovingly nicknamed *me*,yes *ME, "slim"? I'm digressing, I'm digressing

Maintenance is putting on the size 6 jeans you find in the back of the closet and knowing they'll zip no problem.

Maintenance is actually looking forward to doctors visits.

Maintenance is never fearing those cream colored envelopes (invitations) that come in the mail.
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Maintenance is ... having a closet full of beautiful, stylish clothes that fit me season after season.

Maintenance is pulling on your jeans straight out of the dryer and having them fit!

Maintenance is nowhere near the terrifying experience I thought it would be. It feels natural to me.
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And that doesn't even skim the surface of the joy I have heard here at the Maintainer's Forum. Not by a long shot.

Gotta think about this some more, before I respond further. Thank goodness we've got Glory and Meg who are so level headed and articulate.

I guess I write so much, because it is a struggle inside me. I know deep down I am the same person I always was, scratch the surface of all my healthy eating habits (send me on vacation, have a family member die) and boom - the old me is RIGHT THERE WAITING. So, that is why I do agree about the tightrope analogy. The only thing keeping the old me from being me, is me. Most of the time, I feel completely on top of it, my vigilance feels like normal, healthy habits. It doesn't feel intrusive or punitive. I feel happy and slender and okay with my life. Other times, I feel the yawning abyss below me, the old me has lots of justifications for eating things I know aren't good for me/my goals. I do long to be "normal" (no planning required, just eating the perfect healthy foods, treats in moderation, without thinking about any of it!) but most of the time, I am okay with the tactics/techniques which allow me to live as a slim person. It IS work. It will be work for the rest of my life. That doesn't mean it has to be scary (although it can be). It doesn't mean it's going to be all joy and rainbows (although it can be).

For now I want to touch upon the "unresolved issues". I know EXACTLY where my overeating came from. I'll never forget looking at my class pictures one day, some 15 or so years ago. There I was - 1st grade - skinny, 2nd grade - skinny, 3rd grade almost SCARY skinny, 4th grade the same and then - chubby. It was my 5th grade picture and all of a sudden I went from this skinny kid to this,chubby kid. And it hit me - that's the year when the beginnings of my "traumatic experience" occured. Molestation. THAT'S when I turned to - food.

I used food to keep men away from me and to comfort myself. I know if for SURE. Man, this is painful. Okay, I'd always heard that you can't lose the weight and keep it off until you RESOLVE those issues. But darn, I KNEW them. I knew them. I knew where they stemmed from, but I couldn't resolve them. There would be no forgiving my molester and absolutely no forgetting. Okay. So after hearing time and time and time again, how there was no way I could ever be a weight loss success until I did, I kinda gave up. Figured, what's the point, why bother?

And then one day, I said - "screw it". The heck with what "they" say. And the rest so they say is history, one that you all pretty much know. Made the change, revamped my lifestyle, gave myself some pretty strict rules and STUCK to them. Shed the pounds in a fairly timely fashion, if I do say so myself. And have kept it off for almost 20 months. And I can honestly say that I have never, ever been happier. What used to be a pure **** for me - LIFE - is now an incredible, incredible JOY. I know EXACTLY what Meg means when she says every day is Christmas. I can't wait to face each and every day - money woes. Family stuff. Big stuff. Little annoying every day stuff and all. Joy. Joy. Joy. Every day is like a HUGE gift, with so much HAPPINESS in it. Just from the every day little stuff. I get to play dress up every single day. Like a princess. Yup, I feel like this glamourous princess - every day. Can you imagine?

Moderation? You can keep it. Relying on intuition? You can keep that too.
DOESN'T work for me. Listening to what "they" say. No thank you. Being "normal"? I'm done trying to find that. What the heck does that mean anyway? Because you see, I certainly don't DO "normal". Didn't when I was 287 lbs, don't do it now. I've accepted the fact that I will never ever be able to DO "normal". I'm perfectly okay with that. Because I'm at a healthy weight. Yup, ME, *I* am at a healthy weight. And I'm staying here. UNresolved issues and all. Woohoo!!

Okay, that's enough - for now.

As an aside, I've never understood the virtues of eating moderate amounts of unhealthy foods. Healthy foods, sure, but cookies? Candy? Soda? Chips? Fast food? No one should be eating that stuff anyway. So why should someone feel bad for not being able to moderately eat non-nutritious foods?

I expect that my maintenance is going to be almost exactly like my weight loss and I don't find anything bleak about it. My husband and I are on disability and have to be crazy careful with our money - but that isn't bleak either. When I tell people about some of our money saving tips (that I actually have fun doing), some people tell me that it's "crazy to worry about money so much." Firstly, I never once said that I worry about money. In fact, I worry about money less now that I have less money to worry about. Finding ways for our money to go further, is a fun challenge to me. I understand why some find it bleak, but they're wrong in assuming that I find it so.

Weight and finances (and parenting, hobbies and bunches of other things a person might devote time and effort into to) take as much time and effort as the person chooses to put into them, and how much time any person dedicates to any or all, really isn't something anyone else has to be concerned about. There will always be people telling you that you're beeing too careful, or not careful enough, spending too much time and effort, or not enough. If it's working for you and your family and your happy with it, it's ridiculous for others to say you're doing any of it "wrong."

I decided "this time," that I wasn't going to do anything that I couldn't imagine doing for a lifetime. I call it my super low-stress way to weight loss, and it's working for me. I've gotten a lot of criticism (almost none of it here, and most of it coming from family) for not losing faster, and well, frankly they can go jump. I'm learning that the more I do, the more I'm willing to do, but I still refuse to take on anything that I can't see myself doing forever. That doesn't mean that I don't change my mind sometimes, and have to change my plans, but I don't make plans that I know won't work in the long term. Crash diets and goal by dates only work in the short term for me, and I know that weight that I get off quickly, comes back quickly.

Moderation the way I intend it does not include eating junk food. That's not what I mean at all.

I suppose I should say "healthy" instead of "moderately"?

I gave up drinking alcohol 22 years ago. I sure did love to drink, though! But you know what, I have no idea what "moderately" means when it comes to alcohol. Why would anyone want to drink moderately? Nope. With me it's an all or nothing situation. That's why I stopped and why I'm not going back. Do I occasionally wish I could have a drink like "normal" people? Oh yeah! But I never drank that way and there's no reason to think I ever would. So, it's just not an option. I don't "try" to have "just a little" alcohol.

However, I do not have to white-knuckle my way through being sober. Not after all these years. If I did, then I'd say I had been doing pretty lousy at my recovery!

So, yes, I understand some of these issues. Resolving my issues with alcohol doesn't mean I'll ever be able to drink again. And it could be that if someone resolved their issues with food, they would still never be able to eat certain foods again. The difference has to do with attitude.

For the first several years of not drinking, I was scared all the time. I expected to be "struck drunk" at any minute if I let down my guard. And who knows? I might have been. It was like the tightrope over the abyss. But at some point that changed. I am no longer scared all the time, even though of course I still can't drink.

I am not suggesting that anyone is doing maintenance wrong. For many folks, fear is what's keeping you from going down that slippery slope of regaining. It's a good thing if it works. Keep doing it.

And yes, my maintenance plan IS just like my weight loss plan, but with a bit more here and a bit less there. I'm not suggesting I can ever go back to the old ways because my old ways got me up to my high weight. As I think I said in some other post a long time ago, what we're trying to do is redefine "normal." At least, that's what I'm trying to do.

Jay

I think this comes from the wish, hope, and dream that once you lose the weight, everything will be okay and you can go back to your old way of eating and maintain.
Most people who diet want to diet and then be done with it. Isn't that why most diets fail? Not the diet itself per se, but the fact that people stop doing the diet and then blame the diet.
There is a whole different physical/biological component to weight loss for many people. Just because you become thin, that doesn't mean those underlying issues are gone. I guess that can also go for emotional issues.

I'm still trying to figure out the moderation thing. There are some foods/situations where I just seem out of control, and I cannot figure out why. My current solution to that is to enjoy those situations, and really work hard before and after. It's not ideal, but it works for me at the moment until I can figure out that Superbowl parties don't mean that I have to stuff my face. LOL. I've have learned enough to be able to recover from days like that - they don't send me spinning out of control for weeks like in years past.

There are certain foods that can't come into the house (peanut butter cups come to mind). I just can't have them around. But you know, I don't crave them until they actually appear in front of me. I certainly hardly ever feel deprived, as I love the food I *do* eat. I am going to have to count calories and weigh and measure for quite a while into the future yet. I am not a very good intuitive eater, and you know - I don't mind the weighing and measuring or the counting. It's just such part of my day like which foot goes in the pant leg first, or what order I tend to do my day in. Stuff you don't think about so much.

Jay, I wasn't targeting your post, more generically stating that sometimes people see fear, or suffering, or deprivation where there is none. Mostly a few posts reminded me of my mother's voice in my head. She's very conflicted when it comes to weight loss. She's lost 60 lbs, and has regained about 15 of it, and is having trouble getting those 15 back off, andthe 20 more she wants to. She has a lot of trouble seeing weight loss efforts as anything but deprivation (she's a rather pessimistic person though, so she's likely to interpret most situations negatively). She was even lamenting, at Christmas that she "can't eat like she used to," as if that were a bad thing.
Yet, she's always telling me what I'm doing wrong, how I need to do it, instead and doesn't acknowledge even the possibility that I might have it under control.

She views my food journal as a terrible chore, that I couldn't possibly enjoy using, especially forever - and yet both she and my father have done at least one word or computer puzzle every day of the last decade. I really don't see much of a difference

My youngest sister is thin and very toned because she works hard at it, and my mother is always telling her that she's spending too much time on her workouts and is too picky about food - she also tells my other sister that she spends too much time at church (and when I was single told me I needed to go to church and should join "any" church if I didn't want to be Catholic anymore - and then after I married my husband and joined the Lutheran Church, she wasn't happy either).

There are just so many ways in which people (especially those that care about us) become annoying in trying to help us find "balance" in our lives - unfortunately their idea of balance is often very different than our own. And while we may be confident that we have the mix right, there are always well--meaning folks telling us that we don't.