Liana!!! Hahaha! So true. You always come up with the funniest memes.

Hope all have a great weekend. Doing Keto now for a week and down a total of almost 5 lbs and not hungry. Sticking with it for now to see how it plays out.

Beth - yes, I am interested. I am not on any social media but I would join I think.

Liana - let me know if you need any help on keto info as well as intermittent fasting as I read your posts on other thread. I have spent a ton of time reading and hired a keto coach. Fat bombs are the way to go to add fat and not protein. Lots of recipes so you should find something that suits your tastes.

so great to see you again! I'd love to talk with you about your keto diet experience - that's essentially what I am doing now - and the first 11 lbs came off quickly, about a pound a day, but I seem to be stalled. It is hard to get head around the concern about too much protein, and the tolerance for considerably higher fat... anyway - I will PM you and maybe we can talk.

I was invited by Beth to the FB group too - you will see me over there - it's good to hang together wherever we can - so many good connections and lots of support.

My latest thing is working on the head game and I found some really good resources for working that now so that I am in a better mindset for maintaining when I get back there. I have posted links that you cannot miss if you are interested... I wrote a tome today that is essentially about giving up justifying cheats. Make decisions that are good for you, or own the decisions to eat or do things that are not taking you forward with your goals. It is hard work but doing the work brings results.

so good to see you!!! don't be a stranger!!
cheryl

Hi Cheryl,

Good to hear from you too. Sure, I'll be happy to share. Although I hired a keto coach to learn what I was doing wrong for 3 months that I posted about in the Spring, I have not put the knowledge to use as I have been doing IP. However, I have continued to compile many recipes and so I feel the most prepared to transition from the weight loss phase than any other time. I'd be happy to share - I have literally spent hundreds of hours putting together recipe books and macronutrients on the recipes. I am planning to adopt this as a maintenance lifestyle when I transition. I can tell you that my coach told me I didn't lose in the 3 months because he said I wasn't actually following a keto plan. He said my carbs and protein were good but that I needed to be eating 2x the amount of fat that I was so it came down to too few calories. I knew my BMR was 1600 so I created a calorie deficit from that and then applied a keto macro approach but he said that a keto diet does not work that way. He told me I should have been consuming 1800 calories with about 150 fat grams (80 g of protein and 20 g of carbs he said was fine). As I said, I don't have experience losing weight with this but he guaranteed it would do the trick. Obviously, this was based upon my height, weight and lean body mass so yours wouldn't be equivalent to this but just wanted to give you a sense of it for you to compare. I know the formula so I could come up with yours.

Hi Ro22.... I tried fat bombs a while ago. What a disaster for me. Weight instantly jumped by several pounds and stayed there for a while, it took much longer to get it back down again to pre-bomb levels. I don't do the sweet ones because sweet isn't my thing, but it was hard to find non-proteinish savoury ones as they usually involve bacon. I like bacon, but not bacon grease really, and I don't think a lot of animal fat agrees with me. I've always hated the fat on meat, and never could stand poultry skin either, so that pretty well leaves me with butter, higher fat nuts and nut butters, avocado, and oils like olive, grapeseed, almond, MCT. Not a fan of coconut oil :(

On a better note.... the intermittent fasting is going well. I used to get a VERY LOUD and insistent power growly tummy with ache and constant mind obsession with food and my eating schedule (countdown to feeding!!!! to the mental exclusion of more important stuff) when I went over 11 or 12 hours w/o. No more mega-growl or ache and the mind obsession has almost disappeared even after 16 hours. So, I'm happy about that.... After 1 week of MCT & IF there was a bump & drop of 4 lbs so I am back to the same weight I started with. Hoping to see an improvement in mental clarity; I left the keys to the city park washrooms and the keys to the patrol car in my jacket the other night.... got a phone call from the boss as the other staff member couldn't go on patrol the next night without them. Yikes!! Big apology and I had to drive 25 minutes into town to deliver them (it was my fault, after all) - what a waste of time and gas. I have been pretty tired lately - living a day life, courses, events, sick parents... and then working overnight. It doesn't make me the brightest at 5 AM.

Once I get back to a better sleep schedule the pounds may drop. Cortisol & ghrelin can be a PITA. Crossing fingers anyhow. :crossed:

Liana

Hello Maintainers,

I joined a group on FaceBook, Ketogenic Success. It's a closed group so you have to ask to join. They have lively conversations and are very friendly to newbies. I'm down almost 7 lbs now. Have been experimenting with new recipes from Maria Emmerich's book, The Ketogenic Cookbook. I made a mushroom ragu last night that was wonderful. Also had a Chicken Alfredo with zoodles that was amazing.

I'm not having a problem with the fat intake. But what I am having trouble wrapping my head around is the lack of veggies. Eating 4 cups a day is so ingrained in me from doing IP. This WOE is so much less intake on veggies. But I am enjoying the fat bombs!

Hope everyone is doing great.

Liana,

Sorry to hear about the mishap with the keys!

I am exactly the same as you in regards to animal fat...no thank you!!! I can't stand the texture and that includes bacon.

I hear you regarding the sweets but my favorite fat bomb was like a reese's but I swear it wasn't sweet - just super rich and very satisfying. If you are interested, I'll PM you the recipe. This was my "go to" to up the fat without raising protein.

My other one was coconut bars. These have no sweeteners which is why I added them. It is just creamed coconut and any nut butter; although, the recipe calls for almond butter which I used. I hated coconut before but something changed where I enjoyed these. I agree with you regarding coconut oil which is why I get the kind where there is no coconut flavor.

I know from your posts that you love cheese but they also up your protein so you may have had a double whammy with the fat bombs - too much protein and too much dairy; both of which can trigger an insulin response. I track all my macros to be safe.

Andrea - I have the same cookbook!!!
There is no reason why you can't have 4 cups of vegetables on a keto program. I would suggest to follow same approach as you did on IP. And, if you do things like have a sweet potato and berries occasionally, then I'd adjust the other carbs for the day. I think being on keto is part experimentation to see how many carbs your body can tolerate and stay in some form of ketosis.

Also, I think it is important to test your glucose after certain foods, which is unlike IP. For example, dairy and whey protein can trigger insulin response so if you suspect you may be sensitive to these things, then you can test these after consumption and then a couple of hours later to see how your body responded. If you are not super carb sensitive, you shouldn't have an issue with 4 cups of veggies a day. In fact, you should be able to have more carbs than on IP depending upon your goals.

Hi Ro! I rechecked my Keto-calculator and I s/b at 25g carb, 70g protein and 100g fat, I just have to get back to logging on MFP again, I have been out of the habit for about 9 months...I know stuff has crept up without me realizing it. And yes, I do have to watch my dairy, but it's just so easy to drag out of the fridge and eat. I hate doing the fussing with recipes thing... I never even packet hacked on IP except to make a 'tortilla' from the broccoli cheese soup packet a couple times.
Reeses was my favorite junk chocolate bar (with an extra lick of salt in my hand - I know... weird) probably because it was the least sweet. I'd probably way overeat on those fat bombs, lol.
Liana

Liana,

I don't know if it will help, but i see that you and I are the same height. I am not sure how much lean muscle mass you have so let's assume we are the same. I started out with about 1200 calories with intermittent fasting and went down to 800 to create even more of a calorie deficit to lose. The keto coach I hired told me that what I was doing was completely incorrect as he said this is not how keto works. He said this in response to my telling him that was BMR was 1650 so I set my calories based upon the deficit I wanted then applied the keto principles of low carb, 1 pound of protein per lean body mass which put me at about 80 g and then the rest with fat. He said my calorie consumption for my height and muscle should have started at 1800 such that my carbs below 20, protein the same and fat at about 150 g is where I should have been at - he told me that I needed to double the amount of fat I was consuming because he said I wasn't follow a keto plan given what I was doing. He guaranteed weight would melt off with this and the intermittent fasting, but I chose to go back on IP and not do this as I wanted to do something I know had previously worked because I felt I had already lost 3 months of time because I wasn't losing (but he told me not to blame keto as he said mine wasn't a keto plan I was following just some keto principles). I wonder if you increased your fat like this if you would experience more of a drop or at least stabilization. He kept stressing the fat consumption was key as I told him that I was solidly in ketosis by what I was doing but he said I needed to consume more fat for my body to release what it had - he said my body was breaking down the fat as indicated by my ketone readings but not flushing it.

Ro: Why did your coach say that your calorie consumption for your height & muscle should have started at 1800? Just wondering where he came up with the numbers. Right now I am at 22% body fat (up from my low of 18.5) according to skinfold & measurements - I don't have very bulky muscles or bone structure although they are very strong. My lean body weight is 111 lbs and fat weight is 31 lbs.
So according to two different keto calculators for a moderate deficit my protein is fine at 22% of my calories, carbs at 8%, and fat at 70%. Since I don't have Premium MFP I can only do % in 10's so I'm showing 20% protein/10% carb/70 % fat, but in actuality I am looking at the numbers I put in for my gram quotients and not the %.
Hope that makes sense.

I'm pretty sure I just have to watch the dairy and not get carried away with the carbs. Mainly paying better attention. According to what I've seen on all the Keto doc sites, there is no minimum body requirement for carbs, you must hit the minimum for protein, and then fat is to satiety - you don't have to hit your high target on fat every time.

Wow, just got the latest great blog from Dr. Jason Fung in my inbox (I'm subscribed) https://intensivedietarymanagement.c...besity-t2d-18/
On the importance of intra-organic fat in T2D and the waist to hip ratio as a health measure instead of BMI. Here's a couple quotes from studies done all the way back in 1990 - they didn't get much fanfare at the time.

"In 1990, Dr. Willett and colleagues reported that weight gain after age 18 was the major determinant of type 2 diabetes. A weight gain of 20-35 kg (44-77 pounds) increased the risk of type 2 diabetes 11,300%. More than 35 kg (77 pounds) weight gain increased the risk by 17,300%! Even smaller amounts of weight gain could raise the risk significantly. A BMI less than 18.5 is considered underweight. BMI 18.6 – 24.9 is considered normal weight, and BMI over 25 is considered overweight. Women with a BMI of 23-23.9 compared to less than 22 have a 360% higher risk of type 2 diabetes. This is all the more stunning, since that BMI is well within the normal range. By 1995, these insights were extended and refined. Weight gain of only 5.0-7.9 kg (11-17.5 pounds) increased the risk of type 2 diabetes by 90%, and weight gain of 8.0-10.9 kg (17.5 – 24 pounds) increased the risk by 270%. By contrast, weight loss decreased risk by over 50%.
The different fat distribution explains how roughly 30% of obese adults are metabolically normal. These ‘healthy fat’ people carry more subcutaneous fat, not the more dangerous visceral fat. On the other hand, some normal weight persons show the same metabolic abnormalities as that in obesity, because of excessive visceral fat. Type 2 diabetes is diagnosed at all BMI following a normal distribution with no distinct subpopulation of ‘thin’ diabetics. A full 36% of newly diagnosed diabetics have a normal BMI <25. The core clinical component is not total fat, but visceral or intra-organic fat.

Sophisticated measurements of insulin resistance, such as the Homeostasis Model Assessment of Insulin Resistance (HOMA-IR) correlate better to the waist-to-hip ratio and waist circumference rather than the BMI. Central obesity is highly correlated to metabolic abnormalities, increased cardiac risk and progression to type 2 diabetes, even independently of total weight."

Liana

Liana - what you described is my understanding too. The main driver behind the calorie consumption was the type of workouts I do (overall body strength training with 6 days of aerobic activity, my body structure (I was a professional athlete) and my weight loss patterns. Those were the things he asked about in that order. He said he would not change anything else of what I was doing except the number of calories which therefore doubled the fat. I was eating a lot of dairy but he wasn't concerned about that too much. He was mainly concerned with the calorie consumption and said that I was starving myself and said that even at 1200 I was starving myself. He told me to start at 1800 and as I got closer to goal I would maybe have to adjust down to 1500. He said my maintenance calories should be 2200-2500. I haven't put this to the test yet but it is consistent with my own AMR calculation I have done based upon my BMR so it made sense to me.

Ro: We are tag teaming, lol. Your post makes sense now. I used to teach fitness classes for a living and worked as a physical rehab assistant, and was active for fun so I ate what I wanted then and was not overfat. Then I got a chronic disease that affects my ability to exercise via pain and fatigue and weakness. Sooooo, that's where I am now. Although much improved due to judicious supplementation, I still am in no way near the basal metabolism level I was at even 7 years ago. That's how I gained my weight in the first place.
Just because of my build, my overfat weight when I decided I had had enough of the gain was actually about the weight you are now. To give you an idea of my general build, my wrists are 5.5 inches, glove size is 6.5 with long fingers, ankles are 8.25 and shoes are all 8.5A width, I wear a 32D. My largest waist size was 32" which was still under the healthy Waist to Height ratio (2:1), my bra size then was 36C.
Liana

I would love those measurements..... :D