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Gaining it all back
A little background info: at the end of last June I started Ideal Protein, between then and (let's face it) probably Thanksgiving I lost 36 pounds (starting weight 204, lowest at 168). Admittedly I wasn't super strict with myself, but being young (22), I had age on my side. I decided to take a weeklong "break" during Christmas, with the intentions of getting back on come January
...Unfortunately I haven't been able to since then. In eight months, I've probably had a combined week of clean eating. I'm too scared to check the scale, but last time I did (two weeks ago, maybe) I was clocking in at about 191. I'm just beside myself. I was looking and feeling great last year and I've slid right back into bad habits. Not only am I ashamed of myself and my lack of self control, I'm also embarrassed because everyone I had come in contact with could tell I lost weight and would compliment me endlessly, and now they can all see I'm gaining most of it back. Every day I say to myself "I'll start again tomorrow" and then, of course, something comes up; drinks, dinner, family gatherings, pizza.... I know I obviously didn't get off the program in the proper manner, so that isn't helping me. I also don't want to see my "coach" because he did absolutely nothing, I haven't spoken to him since last year; he was just there for me to buy the food and check my progress, but otherwise I was on my own. My father still goes to him every week, so I have him buy me things, but I never end up eating any of it. I don't know what to do. That's not true, actually. I know exactly what I need (and want) to do, but I am having such a hard time doing it. Has anyone had similar experiences? |
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You recognize what happened and what you need to do. You know you get results from the program. Start today....not tomorrow. Give yourself credit for getting on the program at 22 years of age and not wasting 30 more years being over weight, like me! All of the events and special occasions that came up your weight loss will come up through your life....you have to pick and choose your celebrations.....can't over indulge at every event!! I'm proud of you for voicing your worries and posting your struggle. Start today.....with one meal at a time. You can do it and we will support you.:)
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I completely relate to what you are saying, I have struggled with weight loss my whole life, like the other poster said you are young and recognizing now what you need to do.. now its time to commit to doing it :) I know easier than said than done, I am getting back on the wagon today.. and going to take it one day at a time and plan, plan plan.. good luck you can do this!
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You can't change the past, you can only learn from it and get going again. Now you know that you can't not be "super strict" with yourself and get to where you want to be. That's a good lesson to learn.
So you just start over and keep going. Sometimes it's just a matter of doing it one meal, one bite at a time. You know IP works and it's time you put everything you learned the first time around to good use to help you reach your goal this time. Not only am I ashamed of myself and my lack of self control, I'm also embarrassed... Quit being so hard on yourself. Old saying, but so true "it's not how many times you fall down, it's how many times you pick yourself up and keep going." If your coach isn't motivating you and helping you find your best strategies to do IP, come hang out here - we'll give you tons of motivation and ideas! And as Clarington45 said - plan, plan, plan! You have a great opportunity to make the rest of your life better by getting your weight under control now and it's super that you recognize it. Get started and hang in there! :hug: |
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I also made the mistake of not coming back to this forum right away...you have taken a huge step in the MENTAL game of weight loss just by posting here! You have nothing to be embarrassed about - you are human! And any regains don't take away from the HUGE accomplishment of losing the weight in the first place - it just means that pesky fat lived to fight you another day. Losing the weight, keeping it off...they are smaller battles in the larger war. You can lose a battle and still win the war :) Hang in there! |
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Look upon your second approach to IP as one totally new, not restarting the old goal and patterns. Do not knock yourself for the pounds regained, just approach this as new goals, new incentives. Do not fall into thinking 'these are pounds I have lost before'. Get out the food diary or a personal diary and journal your frustrations, anger, whatever. Getting it out on paper helped me to put the feelings relating to restarting away. I chose new goals, wrote down reasons for which it was important to me now as opposed to when I first started IP. My new rule is to be 100%IP in both actions and thoughts - I am working one day at a time to keep my mind on track without allowing the thought of slipping, cheating, stretching, rationalizing. If the program is no cream with coffee, then that is it, no "quick splash" 'cause it won't matter, no licking beaters, no extra mouthful of an allowed IP food, no extra veggies cause I cooked a wee bit much. I am toeing the line. Now some may say that sounds extreme but having slid down that slippery slope because of those kind of behaviors, I want to walk proud and tall that I know I can control those behaviors because my health and sanity are too important. I am not going to rationalize away changes and modifications to the program. I will earn the right to modify it when I get to Maintenance and then the rules for that will govern how I get to earn and eat off the regulation of Phase 1. You can do it but you need to decide what actions you will put into place NOW to do that. Clean cupboards of non IP food, organize an IP closet, shopping for neat veggies, whatever. NOW. |
I agree with all the other comments. I could have written your post, except I gained back even more. I started a new job in January and have basically gone into hiding since then. All my friends at my old job were so happy for me that I lost the weight, I'm embarrassed for them to see me. I was supposed to play softball with them this summer, which I backed out of. I spent the whole year trying in vain to restart a previous diet, it was starting IP that shook me out of it. I'm also fairly young, and there are definitely different challenges for us than others. Not any harder or easier, just different.
Maybe try shaking things up? Try some new recipes or some alternative foods. It might help with the "diet fatigue". I'm making a real effort to constantly try new recipes and not get stuck in a rut. There's some I like better than others and will have more regularly, but it's still important to mix it up. Anyways, you're definitely not alone in this. :) |
This my third serious attempt at Ideal Protein. I have been in your same place. I lost 40 lbs felt food about myself then went back to old habits and gained it all back. I then tried to get back on program for a couple years, every day I would fail and say I'll start tomorrow.
I am three months into my third time on program. I have lost over 40 lbs in three months. The key this time is going to an excellent health coach. I have to drive over an hour each way to see her, which is not easy. I work full time and have three boys. Not cheating at all, therefore I stay in deep ketosis which makes this plan work great and simplifies things. One of the biggest things that keeps me on track is that I made the commitment to myself. As my coach said my first week, you have to take care of yourself first before taking care of others. I read the maintainers thread. There are many successful people there that have kept off the weight. They have a list of several books that help with the mental aspect of weight loss. I feel getting my head in the right place is going to be the key to maintenance. |
Jacaline
Good for you for posting your story and asking for support. I don't have much to add as you have gotten some great feedback from experienced IPers. You can do this and you deserve to be successful reaching your health goals. I agree that this this sight can be a huge source of support but some people also benefit from the in person accountability of a good coach. So find a good coach for yourself even if it is a bit out of the way or may be it is your family doctor and get the IP support here. You can do it and I look forward to reading your posts as you get back on track. |
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm experiencing this at this very moment!!!!!!!!! I started at the beginning of March 2014 at 195.4 (lost 16.4lbs to 179.0). I was doing great til the end of April when my family and I went to visit my parents in Hawaii. We were there for 10 days and I was about 85% IP. I didn't gain any weight, but I didn't lose any either. Since we got back from that vacation, I have been up and down in the mid-170's. I was still eating IP...sometimes 3 brownies in a day plus a couple of IP chips...plus my regular dinner. Some days were better than others, but I didn't go crazy. But about 2 weeks ago, I figured out how much money I spent on IP products and was shocked! So, I decided to not eat so many and tried to "be good" on 'normal' food. I shot up to 181! I am ashamed, too! Disappointed in myself! I just can't seem to get back on track. I sometimes look at food...knowing I shouldn't eat it...but choosing to anyways. It's crazy how cravings work!
BUT........I just joined (like today) the Labor Day to Thanksgiving Challenge here on this forum. I encourage you to do it, too (if you haven't done it already). I also decided to make mini-goals for myself. I didn't think I wanted to do that in the past, but after reading many posts that had mini-goals it made me excited! And my first mini-goal is set for 3 weeks. I can do that! So, please sign-up for the Labor Day to Thanksgiving Challenge! Hope to see you there! |
I know many of us can relate. A couple of years ago I lost 95 pounds on ip. For the first year the scale bounced around a lot, 20 pounds up, 20 pounds down while I fought for my motivation again and a tired metabolism who just didn't want to lose any more. Then last year I faced some horrible health news between my husband, myself and then my sister-in-law. Now almost one year later much of my weight is back, not all, but enough to feel like I have to start all over again. However it's never too late and we did it before. I'm lucky to have a very close friend who I lost the first time with (she too gained most of her weight back) and she started back on ip last week and so I'm joining her on Tuesday.
We can do this again. :hug: I've decided to not over think this and dwell on the bad choices I made in the past. I just want to get back into my skinny clothes again. |
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Dana! I'm back too girlfriend....we got this ;) :hug: |
One thing that a great friend (you know who you are) suggested as a help to 'restart' - do not look upon this as a continuation of the original goal and plan. What that leads me to do is look at every pound as one that I have lost, again, over and over. That emotionally is a negative sort of thought.
"If I had not messed up, I would not be losing this same pound at 185 that I did several times before." Not a good idea to rehash bad times and bad choices. Start anew. Instead, in my journal I have a new start weight, a new goal, and a new approach. "I have lost 5 pounds on my way to goal" instead which is a much more positive thought. |
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You were one of my big motivators when I started! I'm "there" with you on the 20 up/down/up I was 15 from goal at one point. Had to give my body a break from p1 AND went on a 1-month vacation. Wasn't careful. Wow do I gain weight fast. Went back on P1 but the painfully slow losses remain. I've decided this: What choice do I really have? I can choose health or sickness. I'm choosing health. It doesn't matter how long it takes. |
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For those struggling to get back on the program, there are some books I can recommend that will help you shy away from all those carbs that we are trying to avoid.
Read The Wheat Belly or Grain Brain and you may never stuff away carbs again. Wheat Belly will give some insight into what our body actually does with grains, even "good grains". It does not suggest to ban all carbs forever but it may surprise you what we may wish to consider avoiding. Grain Brain is more specifically directed at how grains, again all grains, affect our brain and how the rise of Alzheimers and other debilitating illnesses may be tied to what we eat. As someone who watched my father and his mother go through horrible years of dementia, I am more than willing to read this and consider some of what the doctor discusses. It also just helps me when I am tempted - I make myself remember what these books say and ask if it is worth it, even if only half of what they say is true. |
I lost almost 50 lbs and started maintenance in April. I'm up about 10 lbs even though I think I'm eating a lot better. My bigger question is, can the weight we end IP actually ever end up being our 'ideal' weight? I'm a tour guide so do cruises and many other high end tours where all the food is free. Even then however I tend to choose a protein and vegetable but of course its much harder when your eating out every meal. Just would like to hear from other 'maintainers' and see what the secret is. I don't want to live in fear of gaining a few lbs back however I also don't want to be yo yo'ng for lots of yrs. I so relate to the original poster, good luck.
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If 10lbs keeps creeping back and you are making good food choices and maintaining a level of exercise that fits your lifestyle, chances are you dropped too low to realistically maintain. But like I said, it's different for everyone. |
Reading everyone's trials, has me nervous....I just got a job promotion that means that I will be on the road Monday through Friday. I've been 100% since 7/14/14, and have lost 20lbs. I hope to lose 10 to 15lbs more before I go into P2. I just hope that this job change doesn't throw a wrench into my resolve.
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There is an older thread about staying OP when on the road - "Road Warrior" or something like that - there are tons of great suggestions there to help you stay on track! |
Scorbett, thanks for the advice. Actually my concern is even with the 10# change my 'fat' went up and muscle declined so I know I'm doing something wrong. The # doesn't matter cause I feel better but wherever I end up I'm hoping its easier to maintain. I didn't start with Ideal Protein, I started with a program that was advertised on the radio. What they say is when you get your body fat down to the normal range your metabolism makes adjustment so eating moderately shouldn't be a big problem. IP seems to be doing much the same. I like the links to Nashua Nutrition and think incorporating that into my meal plans may help out. Thanks for the wise words.
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I have done every diet program there is over the past 45 years - I was originally 20 lbs overweight, and now I am 90 lbs overweight -- every yo-yo down was followed by regain, plus a few more lbs, until I have almost quadrupled the extra weight I need to lose. Every time I have'restarted' it has taken an enormous level of commitment to get back on an effective path to weight loss. Taking those first steps each time is very hard. I lost the same 20 lbs 3 times in 2013, and became so depressed about it that it took me until July to get my act together and begin IP. Now I am in week 8, and it's almost like auto-pilot. Once you get a rhythm going, the losses become consistent, and you can kind of ride the wave. After taking the first steps to get started with your program, the next big question is what are you going to do differently this time? Every time in the past, as I have reached goal, or decided to cease the active pursuit of weight loss, I have tried to deal with maintenance by making it up day by day. Each time I have promised myself I will not let myself become obese again, but I am living proof that this is not a successful approach. This time, I am finally accepting that the transition to maintenance, and then effectively executing the maintenance protocol, requires the same level of meal by meal commitment as the Phase 1 protocol for weight loss. I am putting in time checking out the 3FC IP maintenance threads now, lurking with those who are making the transition, and trying to understand how it is supposed to work and what its challenges are. Based on suggestions here on 3FC, I have picked up The Beck Solution and am reading it and working with its recommendations to try to get a successful mindset developed so that I can succeed in maintenance. And I signed up for group fitness training classes with my IP Coach that begin this week -- this will help me to begin to build some exercise habits that will contribute to both weight loss and maintenance. My coach will help me regulate intensity to stay with the IP protocol guidelines for exercise. I am not sure what else I can do at this point, other than staying not only on program, but on purpose. The thing is -- Each of us can lose the pounds, and each of us can keep it off. But the likelihood of success by just 'winging it' is pretty close to zero, no matter how young and resilient you might be. Youth is helpful, and I can say from experience that with each passing year, it gets harder and harder to make any weight loss program work. You are lucky -- because you are young you have the ability to make the commitment now and avoid a lifetime of restarts. Do it!!! |
Sign me up....:(
Did great in maintenance for about a year....then gained about 30.....lost it.....slowly gained.....lost again.....back up 50!! :( Life certainly has it's ups and downs (that's what it's all about tho unfortunately). Had a minor hiccup when I broke my ankle this past spring (the DAY BEFORE we flew down to Disney I might add....:devil:)! Let's just say I "blossomed" even more over the summer! Wahhhh! :( Turned 50 in August.....was hoping I'd have more "control" over this lifetime battle as I grew wiser. Nope. Hubby has also lost on IP over the years. We know it works, it's just frustrating that we can't keep a grip on it! His cholesterol is up and now needs meds.....so now it's even more important to get the weight off. What has always worked for me is coming here and READING! Always nice to see familiar names (and faces)! Thank you all for your wisdom!! Best wishes to all!!:hug: (And.....I can't remember how to do my ticker....lol)! |
This thread is scaring the crap out of me.
I never had problems with weight until college when I went on a medication that made me gain 30 lbs. It took time, but I got it off. Then by graduation, I'd put it back on. Went on South Beach, lost it all and felt amazing. Six months later, met my future husband and with all the dinner dates we had, put 30 lbs. back on and carried it around for several years. Then we got engaged and in 10 months of calorie counting and exercise, I was back down for the wedding. Looked fabulous, felt fabulous. But starting my own business, buying a house, and other life stresses had me back up 30 lbs. again, which is when I found IP. I'm down 20+ and feel amazing. What I've realized is: food makes me sick. Not all food, but a lot of it. I was diagnosed with a litany of allergies in January which has helped, but my doctors wanted me on an extreme elimination diet (essentially, IP). I'm terrified to get off this diet and go back to my old ways of eating. Not only will the weight come back (and really, it's dangerous to keep yo-yo-ing up and down 30 lbs. right?), but I will FEEL terrible. I've been working on completely changing my mindset while on IP. My husband will eat a rich dessert in front of me and all I want to do is shove it in my face, but out loud I proclaim, "that would probably kill me." Ok, that's a little dramatic - but I've been up enough nights at 2 am thinking I need to be taken to the hospital because my stomach is in so much pain to know better. I hope. I think this diet is - like others have mentioned - making me come to terms that I cannot eat whatever I want. Are there long-term success stories of people keeping the weight off with IP? |
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You have grasped what I think are some key hard truths -- we cannot go back to old ways when it comes to eating, and that means we cannot regularly eat whatever we want. Adopting habits of mindful eating, and recognizing the difference between a 'fun day' and sensible days devoted to regular maintenance is critical. It occurs to me that all through my yo-yo life I have spent the better part of every day thinking about my weight - 90 percent of the time it was because I was overweight and uncomfortable in the company of others who were not fat, and who were so much more at ease in their own skin. That voice in my head has been commenting relentlessly on how I must look to others, and at the same time, trying to rationalize my ingestion of any sweet thing within a several mile radius. So if I can get down to goal and then have to spend time every day thinking about sensible food choices and eating management, it's ok with me. It can be a much more positive and meaningful life experience. I find the IP foods and alternatives perfectly ok-tasting and I'm willing to continue to include them in my eating management strategies. To be more slim and more comfortable in my own skin can provide a completely different perspective -- I am following IP as closely as I can, so I can reach that point as quickly as I can, and along the way, trying to train that voice in my head to help me maintain once I get there. Lisa's quote says it all for me... Losing weight is hard. Maintenance is hard. Being fat is hard. Pick your hard. (-Ishbel) |
I wonder if the answer is to catch it sooner? I am new to IP so I hope to break the cycle of loss and regain as others have mentioned. I have done most of the major diets over the years, had success (on weight wathchers and atkins) kept it off a few years and then ultimately went past + more. Part of it is that I've aged and it does get harder. For me, adding pregnancy weight plus kids where I find it hard to fit in exercise made me double my last amount to lose. In my 20s, I needed to lose 15 pounds -- did it, stayed at ideal for a few years. In my 30s I needed to lose 35. Did it, stayed at ideal for a few years. In my 40s, I need to lose 60. Maybe the key is to not let yourself go above a 15 pound weight gain. Do mini reboots if you have to? I haven't made it over to the maintainer threads yet but I will once I get going on this weight loss/downward journey. But, remember you're doing something about it. That's the important thing.
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Hi Darth,
There are long time success stories - but I would say there are more stories where the weight has crept/leapt back over time. Lifetime habits are so hard to change and sliding into the "easy" mode is well... easy. There is another thread that came up the last time we had restarters posting. People got nervous and started asking for successes (sort of felt like they didn't want to know about us restarters). I certainly don't take your question offensively - I do understand. Personally I don't feel like a failure - I'm here and back at it which to me is the big win, though of course I wish I'd not had as much to re-do before I got back here. In June of 2012, I really did't want to see myself restarting and hearing of those that did were the "not me" stories I wanted to believe could be me after I worked so hard. Gosh same holds true for when I did WW with my Mom when I was in 8th grade. Anyway, don't be discouraged. IP will take the weight off, much faster than any other eating plan I have been on. Maintenance is the hard part - and it is for the rest of my life. With the amount of weight I need to lose, and my age/activity level I believe I will be basically on phase 2 or 3 the rest of my life. I've come to terms with that. So here I am - doing this anew, and feeling great about it. |
Thank you all for sharing your honest experiences. I have been maintaining since June and your stories have made me even more determined to be vigilant about staying in my range. It seems to me that maintenance works when we work it. I can see this getting old as the thrill of weight loss fades.
One common thing that I noticed in your stories is that many fell away from posting on the threads. I wonder why? Being busy? Not following program? Only wanting to post success? Being fatigued by the weight loss process? What makes many of us stop reaching out for support once we hit goal? |
Halfagain - I'm so sorry, I meant absolutely no offense to restarters. Even though I'm not an IP restarter - I'm definitely a diet restarter, so I recognize what a daily struggle losing weight can be. I think it takes a heck of a lot of commitment and dedication to yourself to be on IP, and even MORE to restart the process. I love reading the advice here and take it to heart, it also makes me feel less alone.
oneuh - I love that quote! I think I should print it out. I'm mentally preparing myself for maintenance, yet since I'm on P1 and still have a few weeks to go, I haven't started looking into P2, P3 and P4 yet. Perhaps I should do that so I can start to get a sense of the daily dilemmas I will face. It may help calm my anxiety a bit, too. I also LOVE the alt foods I've found and would be happy incorporating them into my lifestyle permanently. |
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Weighing in...on the regain.
Hello all!! Happy labor day for all the the US ladies.(gents). Hope you are having a wonderful long weekend. Family, friends or just chilling (important!!) and getting in the groove for fall. Learning to be happy with non-food facets of life is a major step for all who dare to journey and journal here.
This summer I celebrated a year of maintenance...and also celebrated my 66th B-day. IP was a way for me to get my ducks in a row as I was approaching my 65th birthday. My 7.5+ months on IP was amazing... I lost the weight but JUST as amazing and most important during that time was the opportunity to be able to evaluate what I needed to do to stay on track...(at my age) deviation and a reboot thoughts were a scarey thing. I still do a lot of reading. Do not post much...honestly, at my age my time is extremely precious.....and is limited. And I say that with no apologies. Now, I need to be doing all the things that did not happen for many years prior. On 7/22/2014 in the daily chat (post # 45 and cross posted in the over 50 thread I think )...I posted a few pretty bare facts that related to my own experience. It is a no nonsense approach..which for the "long-timers" here who know me, recognize it is an approach. And there are many approaches to this journey. The short list is what worked for me in maintenance. Keep it simple. Sometimes I think a dose of reality is the only sure way to get on track, and one can only kid themselves for so long before the truth is obvious. At my age I see younger people esp. here finding reasons to go off their game..or allowing life to happen...(I do understand...but ...there is a price for making any decision we make regarding every choice we have. ) I have also seen a lot of people pass on long before and at a much younger age than I am now. Many had health issues made worse by obesity. Diabetes and heart disease for sure. Many started having mobility issues .... way young. Quality of life??? And many have had their own type of misery every day living sleeping and breathing...plus the mental anguish of wishing there was a way to effectively lose the weight...and get a life or get their life back. It is a personal decision... for some the day will never come. For others the switch will flip and doing what has to happen will not be so hard. And I am acknowledging it is not easy to maintain...but after a year I find it is an easier battle fighting the demons to stay thin, than dealing with the mental abyss of not having something that was effective...and worked quickly. IP was the first (only) thing that worked for me in 15 years of a painful struggle. If you are young...you may have to hit the wall before you reckon with yourself. If you are older...I say as I did in the 7/22 post....How long do you think you have? Wishing all health and success...but be honest with yourself every day. That honesty is the only thing that must be part of your maintenance. Enjoy your family...your life and the days you have left. If you can't count on yourself though...you will never achieve permanent success, no matter how much you post here...or work with a professional. And this is not saying support is not helpful...and sharing how one gets back on track. But, it really comes down to you. That's who matters. And you are worth it...don't EVER forget it. kg |
The way I see it maintenance is going to be a lifelong battle. I know that I will have to be careful in my choices daily. I know I cannot go back to my old eating habits.
I really see similarities as any other addiction. My 10 year just offered me something that is not on plan. He said it's really small mom you can have some. I thought in my mind no I can't. That one small thing can set me off wanting more. I agree with many of the posters that said if we didn't have a problem with food in the first place we wouldn't be here. |
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Slipfree, I know I felt really out of water when I got to goal. I the scale feedback and losing a lb or two each week went away. I needed to get involved and make the maintenance thread more of a home for myself. That was my bad, as of course the maintainers are very welcoming and helpful. That feeling like when you shop in ladies size sections of the store and feel like someone may come tell you to leave as you are in the wrong department - even though you now wear those sizes, was present. I know it takes the mind a while to catch up with the loss, and I believe I needed to come to acceptance of maintenance and make a home here in my heart, head, and with the maintainers group. |
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Congrats on your one year maintenance anniversary. Your success inspires me! |
This has been the story of my life for the last five months! I promised myself I would never be in the 200s again, and here I sit at 202.4. I hid away from this forum and stuffed my face, even though I knew I needed to come here for daily motivation. Today marks three weeks of my restart, and I am feeling super motivated. It was so hard to get back on, I did two weeks in May then that was it, besides a day or two here and there.
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ShrinkingSusie- welcome back!
Scorbett and Halfagain, very insightful reflections. I appreciate your honesty. I am going to work hard at keeping the forum on my priority list as I move forward. For me, it helps maintain my focus even when I haven't had the best maintenance day. When I hit goal I bought myself a necklace with this quote: "Learn from yesterday,live for today, hope for tomorrow" on one side and "live the life you love" on the other side. It reminds me that every day is a new day for me to make good choices. |
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Oneuh- thx..you can do it!! And you will with this attitude. It's a wake-up call ...eh?? Been there. Not at all diss-ing the forum and it's effectiveness...but no one should concede success is not proportionately skewed in the direction of their own doing. What EVER it takes to get there. It is what it is. I love the forum..the inspirational tales..funny "along the ways"..heart felt "lessons learned and shared"... and the info...so on target. But when the day is done...it is a one woman show. We go to bed with ourselves. Thanx for the congrats...It was a quiet celebration... I wore a slinky long knit dress...glittery sandals...and we went to dinner on the waterfront where I ordered seafood and veggies....!! (and yes...had a little wine.) What a year...Loving life. You will get there....LOL... I think you maybe hit the wall! As mentioned!! ?? Yep..a good thing!! Hugs to you and others.......it will be a good next year!!! And you are almost all younger than I... |
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