Originally Posted by canadjineh:
Just a note on something to remember - it isn't just the carbs that cause the problem - it's the combination with higher fats - that is where maintenance menu stresses separating higher carb meal from a higher fat meal. Go back and read the introductory papers to Phase 1 that explain why we are lowering carbs AND going lower fat (as opposed to Atkins low carb higher fat) - Phase 3 & 4 sheets make it even clearer. ;)

What is the easiest to eat: 1/2 cup of granulated sugar or 1/2 a cup of butter or 1/2 a cup of ice cream. Why do you think that is?.....

The foods that most 'carb sensitive' people worry about are actually combos of higher carb & higher fat: pizza, pasta with cream sauce, mashed potato & gravy, cheeseburgers, cake, cookies, ice cream, etc... They lead to cravings, insulin problems and fat storage.
:burger::chockiss::jeno::cookie:

Liana

There is very little research on a low carb/low fat lifestyle. But one would have to be cautious to follow a ketogenic eating style that is also low fat for a significant amount of time. I think it is not healthy. Eating Atkins seems to be the better solution for most people, though one would have to check lipid levels regularly. I also do not think that carbs are a problem. But just look at the foods you listed as bad carbs. They are not bad carbs, they are largely junk food or plain sugar in the disguise of a cookie or frosting. Italian lifestyle is full of carbs, yet it is still a healthy way of eating. This is because Italians have a different attitude to food. They cook their meals and they eat relatively small portions. They do not go to a takeout or a supermarket and load up on oversized synthetic meals. Ready-made meals are loaded with stuff that is addictive.

Originally Posted by Lolo70:
There is very little research on a low carb/low fat lifestyle. But one would have to be cautious to follow a ketogenic eating style that is also low fat for a significant amount of time. I think it is not healthy. Eating Atkins seems to be the better solution for most people, though one would have to check lipid levels regularly. I also do not think that carbs are a problem. But just look at the foods you listed as bad carbs. They are not bad carbs, they are largely junk food or plain sugar in the disguise of a cookie or frosting. Italian lifestyle is full of carbs, yet it is still a healthy way of eating. This is because Italians have a different attitude to food. They cook their meals and they eat relatively small portions. They do not go to a takeout or a supermarket and load up on oversized synthetic meals. Ready-made meals are loaded with stuff that is addictive.

Interesting dialogue here. I may be wrong but I have not found maintenance to be particularly low fat. In other words, I certainly indulge in fats at bfast everyday and lunch or dinner but do watch when combining...hence usually only bfasts. I have found that when I mix is when I have a problem.

I haven't phased into maintenance yet, but tend to agree with those who said if you go back to what you did prior to IP you'll be back to square one. Might be better to accept that this is a lifestyle change. They got us this far, so I am gonna trust the maintenance process.

Originally Posted by Avalon1957:
JohnP, brought up some excellent points. Thanks John!

I have a few more to add:

1. your BMR (basal metabolic rate) -- that is, the number of calories your body burns at rest is much higher if you are fatter. In other words, it takes more energy for your body to pump blood/fluids and to generally run a 300 pound body vs. a 150 pound body. So if you were used to eating x amount of food to maintain a 300 pound weight ... after you lose 100+ pounds ... if you go back to your eating habits that you had, when you weighed 300 pounds, you will gain weight back quickly as your body is now getting MORE of an excess in calories.

2. I think that many of us "serial dieters" who are "chronically fat" have bad food addictions; and when we "fall off the wagon" (end our diets) and start up with the whole bad food vicious cycle (that bad food, creates cravings for more bad food) ... then the bad feelings and feelings of failure when we start watching our weight climb often begets more eating (as an escape from our feelings of failure) ... so we get into a negative feedback loop. This is the major cause of yo-yo dieting and long term yo-yo weight charts (IMHO). Like my personal 40 year weight chart (talk about a classic yo-yo dieter, ME) ... (Note that only that last 60 pound "downward stroke" over the past 3 months, is the IP Diet ... all other downward strokes in my 40 yr weight chart were other various and assorted diets)

https://mindstar.com/scratch/WL_1975_2015.jpg

The only way to break the yo-yo cycle is to actually change the way you eat "normally" ... that is, don't allow yourself to ever "go off the diet" completely. So keep eating the 4 cups of steamed broccoli a day, keep eating the 8 oz of lean protein, supplement with a good quality protein powder (not necessarily IP), drink lots of water, and exercise. Avoid high carb foods, avoid fast food and sugars. I think that only with these "lifestyle changes" in the way we eat, do us "predisposed fat people" have any hope of keeping the weight off after a long diet.

https://mindstar.com/scratch/DietCar...inal_phase.jpg

The final important thing is to always think of plateaus and maintaining a lower weight a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure" ... sometimes it's impossible for us to get our bodies to get down to the weight that we "think" we "should be" ... but at even 75% or 50% or even 25% of goal, we see HUGE health benefits. so always try to maintain your "weight loss ground" and not get caught in one of those bad negative feedback loops where we gain all the weight (that we just lost) back in what seems like a flash (but is usually similar in timeframe to the time it took for you to lose it).

I personally have been one of these yo-yo dieters for the past 20+ years, where my weight is going either straight up or straight down (and hardly ever sideways, for any length of time). And I finally "saw the light" this year, that there are tremendous benefits to even having partial success and losing some of the weight that we want -- so even a partial success is a great thing IF we a committed and motivated/dedicated to keep it off (which sometimes can be harder than losing it in the first place).

So even with me still 70+ pounds overweight (not even 1/2 way to my goal), I am seeing HUGE health benefits:

- My blood pressure is 105/60 (it was 140/85 early this summer)
- My A1C is 5.5 (it was 10.0 in 2008)
- My blood sugar range is 90-120 (it was 120-180 early this summer)
- My cholesterol is in the 100's (it was 240 earlier this year)
- I have no back pain at all ... zero ... nada ... actually I dont have ANY PAIN, ANYWHERE!
- My feet don't hurt, even when I wear high heels
- I have no lung congestion (no fluid in the lungs) after I eat (this can be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have no foot and/or ankle swelling and I lost 1/2 a shoe size (foot swelling can also be an early sign of congestive heart failure)
- I have a waistline (an hourglass figure) and look 100x better
- I dont take any prescription pills other than thyroxin for low thyroid (a condition i've had since 1990)

So even if all weight loss stopped for me tomorrow ... if I can just maintain this weightloss that I have achieved over the past 3+ months ... and stay at the level I am now ... it's a medical success. It's really important to change the way we all think about ourselves and our dieting and health.

Just remember this mantra after you make some headway into your weight loss ... weightloss plateaus are a "maintenance success" and not a "weight loss failure". That was a really important mind change (for me at least). I used to get so depressed during long weightloss plateaus and they often were the catalyst for me to end my dieting effort and were typically followed by me gaining all the weight back and more. I can remember so clearly thinking (in my dieting past) after a long 3 or 4 week weightloss plateau: "I am killing myself dieting, and I am not making any headway, what's the point" -- and I would just quit. Faulty thinking!! As I was at least healthier at that lower weight -- I should have been thinking about the whole thing differently.

The other thing is steamed frozen organic broccoli florets and lean chicken/turkey are my new BFFs (best friends forever)! This is NOT JUST A TEMPORARY DIET that I am on now, but the start of a new way of eating for the rest of my life.

thanks all so true and very inspiring to read!

Originally Posted by CrimsonKitten:
I haven't phased into maintenance yet, but tend to agree with those who said if you go back to what you did prior to IP you'll be back to square one. Might be better to accept that this is a lifestyle change. They got us this far, so I am gonna trust the maintenance process.

Originally Posted by eandc2006:
Interesting dialogue here. I may be wrong but I have not found maintenance to be particularly low fat. In other words, I certainly indulge in fats at bfast everyday and lunch or dinner but do watch when combining...hence usually only bfasts. I have found that when I mix is when I have a problem.

EXACTLY my point... maintenance is not a weight loss phase - Phase 1 is different from maintenance and yes some days I have higher fat than others, but I always split those two kinds of meals except at breakfast.

Originally Posted by Lolo70:
There is very little research on a low carb/low fat lifestyle. But one would have to be cautious to follow a ketogenic eating style that is also low fat for a significant amount of time. I think it is not healthy. Eating Atkins seems to be the better solution for most people, though one would have to check lipid levels regularly. I also do not think that carbs are a problem. But just look at the foods you listed as bad carbs. They are not bad carbs, they are largely junk food or plain sugar in the disguise of a cookie or frosting. Italian lifestyle is full of carbs, yet it is still a healthy way of eating. This is because Italians have a different attitude to food. They cook their meals and they eat relatively small portions. They do not go to a takeout or a supermarket and load up on oversized synthetic meals. Ready-made meals are loaded with stuff that is addictive.

Yes, to the first bolded statement - this is only a weight loss phase, not a maintenance phase so it is only temporary. And to the second bolded statement - I too am Italian, and yes it's the processed crap combo of higher carbs and fats in the SAME foods/meals that cause problems along with unrealistic portion sizes. BTW there are a lot of overweight Italians too... ;)
just fyi cookies & frosting are not plain sugar - butter or lard is used heavily in both.

:D Liana

Originally Posted by Hockeymom40:
You really need to get rid of your big clothes. In your mind you will be able to justify gaining the weight back. I got rid of everything. I did gain back 20 lbs and now I only have one pair of pants that fit, cause they are stretch. I'll be damned if I'm going to buy new clothes. I'm back on the plan and the doing the Christmas challenge. The only good thing is I'm not working right now so I can live in yoga pants till I get there. :) I will get there, it's not an option.

I am currently in the one pair of pants club myself and not buying clothes too! I am determined to get back to my best and when I am I can buy clothes again, because it's nearly summer and clothes get much funner! Today, a cold keeps me to protein and vitamins from fruit, but no exercise. I have been horrible with white bread lately. Someone mentioned crack addiction carbs earlier. So true.
But back to one pair of pants... I agree. Can't let yourself have a reason.

Originally Posted by canadjineh:
EXACTLY my point... maintenance is not a weight loss phase - Phase 1 is different from maintenance and yes some days I have higher fat than others, but I always split those two kinds of meals except at breakfast.



Yes, to the first bolded statement - this is only a weight loss phase, not a maintenance phase so it is only temporary. And to the second bolded statement - I too am Italian, and yes it's the processed crap combo of higher carbs and fats in the SAME foods/meals that cause problems along with unrealistic portion sizes. BTW there are a lot of overweight Italians too... ;)
just fyi cookies & frosting are not plain sugar - butter or lard is used heavily in both.

:D Liana

Ok, so can you give me an example of how you eat? I hate to ask to much, but like for a week what do your meals look like?

Originally Posted by wildirishrose:
Ok, so can you give me an example of how you eat? I hate to ask to much, but like for a week what do your meals look like?

Hi wildirishrose: I post my daily plans from MFP on "Maintainers P4 What Are You Eating Today." Hope some of it helps - but remember that we are all unique so you may need to be a little more strict (or who knows, less) than I am about calories from fats or carbs. My coach suggested that I concentrate on the separation of the two kinds of meals and not worry about the calories. So far, so good.

What works the best for me is as suggested in the P4 info sheets: Divide your proteins through the day, Dump the calories from refined white starchy foods in favor of low GI foods, Keep reading and understanding food labels, Keep measuring/weighing portions and journaling your food, Step on the scale weekly and nip small gains in the bud, Hold yourself accountable by checking in monthly with your coach, a friend, or your pals on 3FC.

Liana:chef: