Phase 4 - transitioning
 

Phase 4 is maintenance. It's how we will be eating for the rest of our lives. I move to phase 4 tomorrow and I have to admit I am pretty nervous. I started this thread largely based on some Phase 4 type discussion in the Phase 3 thread. And realized that perhaps a transition to phase 4 thread might help some. Based on what I have read it is a much more broad and less focused phase than any other.

So, if you have any thoughts, tips, advice or suggestions I would love to hear it. What I am seeking is assistance for the first few days and weeks as we transition to the rest of our lives. I know maintenance is a challenging balancing act and that ultimately we will have to figure out what works for each of us.

Right now I am just planing for a modified Phase 3, where I don't make myself eat all my breakfast in one sitting.

It feels like starting over, in a way. A new beginning.

Turns out I have some kind of food sensitivity with some of the foods I added back in P3. As a result my energy and focus aren't quite where I would like it to be in order to transition to this new phase successfully. That is also something I am going to have to play with.

Thanks for posting this purple! I will find this thread extremly valuable as I transition as well. :hug:

So this is what i've gathered from other threads i've read:

• ‘real’ salad dressing and cheese at lunch
• Breakfasts same as p3, but can be spread out
• Pasta or any other high fiber carb with dinner
• Yogurt, fruit, nuts, bars, RTDs for snacks
• TRACK! Continue with journal/online food tracking
• WI at least once a week

Anything else? I think adding things slowly is the main idea. Also, any input on the "free" day? I hate to use cheat.. it is allowed and recommended.

Come check out the maintainers thread. You can see a lot of people struggle with adding the carbs back. But there is lots of interesting discussion!

I do. It's a great thread but it's a little to hard find beginners information. I love it for down the line but I am anxious about day one and week 1 of P4. And I can't seem to find that or I am not looking well enough. As well, I wanted to pull the transition to P4 discussion out of the P3 thread because that one has a wealth of information for those transitioning to P3 and the P4 info. would only confuse them.

I was definitely hesitant about starting a duplicate thread but appreciated the focus on transition in the P3 thread so we'll see. I think a lot of people who started at the beginning of the year are starting to phase down.

By the way I am reading about food combining. More on that later.

Hey Purple sky, I agree. It was time to start a new thread. I'm sure there are a lot of people reading these posts but don't comment like I used to not comment. I still found a lot of the information very useful. You, CassiR, and I are here again! The transition is scary.
I'm confused about something you keep saying- that you can spread out the breakfast. Are you sure about that? I've always read it has to be eaten in one sitting. Maybe I'm missing something.
I'm also really confused about the snacking throughout the day. That makes me really, really nervous. I don't think I'm going to do it.
My first P4 lunch is going to be chicken salad. I think that one should be easy enough because the chicken will count as my protein, celery and pickles as veg + 1 cup of raw baby spinach, and a little mayo for the fat. Dinner will be some sort of lean protein, 2 cups veg, and 1 cup (5 oz cooked) pasta. I wish there was more info like how much fat exactly at lunch.
What will your meals look like?

I've been in P4 for about 3 weeks now and I'm finally getting the idea of how it works. I attached the Meal Planner my coach gave me to help with planning P4 meals.

She said I can keep breakfast the same as P3 or break it up. I break it up because I usually want something midmorning. For example, this morning I had eggs & bacon and later around 10:00 I had yogurt/fruit/oatbran mixture.

For lunch I struggled with trying to figure out what to add as a fat. So far I tried cheese, nuts, bacon and full-fat salad dressing. My favorites are cheese and/or bacon. From the attached Meal Planner it is suggested we have 1-2 servings (10-20g) of fat. It's up to us to figure how much we can handle before we start to gain weight, so start slow and increase the amount until you notice an increase in weight and then back down.

For dinner be careful of the carbs! It is so easy to eat more than you can handle. I tried sweet potatoes, beans and only have wheat on my cheat day but I've found I'm really sensitive to carbs so I keep them pretty much to my cheat day now.

BTW, take it really easy on your first couple of cheat days! On my first one I only allowed myself two things a cinnamon roll and a samosa. I had the worst hang-over headache and queasy stomach for 3-4 days afterwards. Now on my cheat day I just add more cheese and I have a glass of wine for dinner (my cheat day is spread out Friday thru Sunday but only the dinner meal). So far it works for me and I don't have that terrible 'day after' feeling.

Regarding snacks, I typically don't have snacks because I eat pretty big meals; except for breakfast that is split into two.

This blog is a wonderful source for hearing how people are going thru the same thing you are, I love it! Good luck!

Done. :carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::c arrot::carrot:

I'll be back tomorrow to share what I learned about P4 eventhough I won't fully be in it for a few days (vacation). Now, it makes more sense. Just wish I were fully starting. Vacation makes me nervous but if I have to do P1 for a bit then I will.

:carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot::c arrot::carrot::carrot::carrot:

...phase 4 newbie thread? :) great idea! Thanks for starting it!

Thanks so much, GoodEatsandWine. Good luck tomorrow Purplesky! I can't wait to hear how it goes.

GoodEatsandWine,

I just looked at your P4 meal planner. I love it! I have a couple questions, though. 15 grams of S Carbs- that's about 1/2 oz. Is that 1/2 oz dry or cooked? About how much is that in pasta? 1/2 cup? 1 cup? 10-20 grams of fat is kind of a lot. Can your protein fat be included in that number?

My understanding is that we needed to eat all (most) of our carbs during breakfast to get our insulin to release only once a day. And that P3 was sort of like a practice session for getting our bodies to produce insulin regularly and correctly. But, going forward we no longer needed to have all those carbs in one sitting. I could be wrong, though. I was planning on spacing that meal apart so I would not be overfull and delay lunch or too hungry an hour or two after I ate. So, I would do the full breakfast to be on the safe side. Personally, I think I will experiment. Something did not work this week and I don't which foods or which combinations of foods were the issue so I thought I might start by separating out items.

For example, I might have my cereal and almond milk in the morning with coffee and then mid morning have my yogurt and fruit. So, in that it is more like a snack than double breakfast. P3 breakfast was too much for me to eat in one sitting on a weekday. I graze.

I did get the P4 sheets and I think I will start by trying to eat the P3 way for the most part. At lunch I can add cheese to my salad. I think I can also add it at breakfast to my eggs but would need to watch my other fats butter, etc. And dinner is when I will add carbs. Don't think I will add pasta early on. I just have a funny feeling we might not get along. I don't have a clear sense for the snack options but based on what I have seen from others, it sounds like fruits and nuts might work.

So, it's basically an enhanced P3 if that make sense.
Same breakfast
Lunch with a little fat (cheese on salad)
Dinner with a carb (no fat)
Snack.

I have to play around with it but may just stick to P3 tomorrow.
Your meal looks good to me. Sounds like it is key to keep the fat and carbs separate.

I remember P3 making absolutely no sense until I sat down and wrote it all out.

Purple, good luck!!! Let us know how everything goes! Have fun on vacation!

Goodeatsandwine, Thank you so much for your input and posting your meal planner. This helps so much! As for the snack, I see it says protein/fruit/veggie, so where does yogurt or nuts fall into? I know a lot of people love greek yogurt but i'm a plain yogurt fan. Also nuts, are they a fat?

Vicki, good questions. I think I'm going to start off with quinoa and then incorporate a sprouted pasta or some other low glycemic carb for dinner. What will you be having with your pasta? I seen some people say they made their own tomato sauce but all the recipes i've looked up have oil in them. I guess that means pesto is out of the question as well? As for lunch, i'm not sure how much fat i'll be adding back in. My current meals dont really need fat and if I were to add fat it wouldnt make the dish much better. I will indulge in ceasar salads though! The cafeteria in my office sells all kinds of specialty salads and looks like they all fall under p4 guidlines. That's exciting!

I'm still unsure about snacks. Are we allowed just one still? I'd like to have a small mid day snack and then another before bed snack. Hm?

Hi all, I too was concerned with beginning maintenance, (as with all the phases). But after a few days I got into a grove and now have some favs.

I'm still learning and tweaking. For breakfast I have a shake, two pieces of whole wheat toast with 1 serving of peanut butter with sliced bananas on top! YUM!!!

And throughout the day I'll have two snacks (an apple, protein bar, slice of cheese or grapefruit)...

I was able to get some clarification from my coach too in regards to lunch fats. I can have two servings, whether it be avocado, mayo or cheese (which can also be considered a protein), then I'm all set. Today I had 1/2 an avocado with some chicken on a salad. It was delicious. Some days I'll have a salad with a can of tuna with two tbsp of mayo. If I use one tbsp of mayo than I'll use a slice of cheese and make a tuna melt (without the bread)! :)

My dinners have been a serving of whole wheat pasta (2 ounces), one serving of pasta sauce (1/2 cup) and some protein. I'll sprinkle it with a hard cheese (parm, Romano etc) and it's amazing! I've never had a box of pasta last me so long. I use to think a 1/2 a box was a serving!!! LOL!!!WRONG! And to my surprise the amounts we're suppose to eat fills me up! I bought a food scale at Target and weigh what needs to be weighted (i.e. the pasta). For my protein I don't eat 8 ounces, but I try to offset my protein with a shake at night. I need to start tracking more thoroughly to make sure I'm getting all my protein each day.

I've been maintaining just fine even though cheat days do make the scale go up...and then right back down within 3-4 days...I have to admit it has been hard to have just one cheat day...I've been doing 1.5 days...

The day after my cheat days I don't even want to eat anything and my coach said you still have to eat P1 or your body will go into starvation mode (a theory some believe and others don't...) After a cheat day (especially if I've had Chinese I'm so flipping bloated I don't want anything...)

can't wait to see what others are doing... :)

Thank you guys. This is Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo helpful. I was overstressing. Now based on your comments i have a much better picture for P4. It's less scary now. You just step in there, dip your toes and see how it works.

I like that I had some weird effects in the second week of P3. It's telling me that I need to tread lightly and carefully with meal exploration.

GoodEatsandWine - Thank you, thank you for the worksheet. This type of document really helps a lot with meal planning. I will also be breaking up breakfast. I think I may have learned that from you. I know I got it from the maintainers thread.

New Englander - Thank you so much for the clarification. I was like do you eat your pasta without fat? Dry pasta just did not sound appealing.

You guys are so awesome. I can't even tell you.

I am going to start adding Food Enzymes to see if it assists with some of my issues. I really think my body does not like change and does not like different foods at once. I have had GI issues my whole life, top to bottom. If I could I would eat one food item like every half hour but that's not realistic.

We got this...ladies. We got this!

Still stumped on the fat/carb deal at dinner though.

I have a recipe with quinoa that I like. Basically toss it with roasted veggies of your choice (super yummy with turnips, carrots and cilantro, sometimes garbanzo beans) and a dressing. The dressing has olive oil in it. Is that considered a fat then? Or maybe this would make a better lunch. I believe quinoa has a lot of protein.

Hi Purple. Dinner is the carb meal with little or no fat. Lunch is your fat meal with no carbs...

But for dinner you can sprinkle a hard cheese on your food. I stay away from any other fats like olive oil or any oil BUT I think you can have a tsp or so of an oil. Not sure if it's still only olive oil...

I've been stalking this tread, even tho I'm not even close to P4 yet.
Let's call it "research" shall we?
This may be a really stupid question, but does IP provide you a list of what foods are 'slow carbs', 'fast carbs', or even fats / proteins (seeing as yogurt could be either)? I'm really not too sure how to classify them.
I'm so thankful that I can learn from all of you!

The only food list I received from my coach were list of veggies and fruits and the level they are on the glycemic (sp) index. I've been googling the other items. It does get a little "tricky" for some items...I was talking to my coach about fats and she said cheese is a fat but can also count as a protein... some gray areas...so if I want an extra fat I'll consider it a protein ;)

So what about your protein at dinner that may have some fat in it? Is that okay? For instance- skirt steak (center cut, as much fat trimmed as possible), or 96% lean ground beef? Will the fat in the protein be a problem? I understand not adding the extra fat with sauces or too much cheese but... every night can't be chicken.

I'm only in Phase 4 for about 5 weeks, so time will tell, but here's what I know/do.

Breakfast is same as Phase 3, though I do agree that the pancreas is awake now, so having it in one sitting is not as important anymore.

Lunch, I have my usual home made soup and throw in some meat. Have my usual salad, but now I can add regular salad dressing and cheese. The amounts of fat are not real clear on the Phase 4 sheet - they just say 'at least' 1 tbsp oil. But I try not to overdo it.

Dinner, I have my usual stir-fry vegees and add meat (not all the time), and pasta or rice or some other grain I'm learning about. My Phase 4 sheet just says '1 serving' so if you look at the package of pasta, 1 serving is 2 oz dry, weighed, and it cooks up to a little less than a cup. I still use 2 tsp oil for the stir-fry, but that's it for fat at dinner. Maybe some fat-free feta on the salad, with a WF dressing.

Fruit is allowed at dinner, so I usually save that fruit for my evening snack and have yogurt as the protein snack, with fruit.

I also have a late morning and late afternoon snack, as I try to push to get my house fixed and need something, so I've been having spinach/kale smoothies with soy protein powder and WF chocolate or caramel and ice. Or, an IP bar or chips.

You can have 'unlimited' vegees, but I still find I can only eat about 2 cups with meals, but I can then have the extra spinach in my smoothies. You can have the full 7 oz meat twice a day, but you don't have to have a full 14 oz, so many times I don't. I still get plenty of protein with the smoothies.

I call the 'cheat' days 'splurge' days. I like that better. ;)

I just found this informational sheet and thought I'd share. I don't know if your clinics gave you something similar, but it may be helpful.

Fat from the meats is fine at dinner. :)

Thank you so much for that info. I was really confused.

Thank you, Sewmam. I guess I just really need specifics to feel comfortable. You all have helped me tremendously and I can't thank you enough.

Today is my first P4 day! I'm really excited. I'll have chicken salad for lunch and I'm going to a communion party later for dinner which will be catered. I'll have the Chicken Picata (all sauce scraped off), salad (no dressing), veggies, and a small roll if there is one. There won't be any rice. There will be vegetable lasagna but I think it will be too messy and hard to scrape off all the ricotta cheese and other deliciousness. Plus I don't think I can control myself. :)

I usually go by the nutritional label to figure out amounts. For example, 1oz of cheddar cheese has 9 grams of fat. Then I use my digital scale that is adjustable to measure lbs.,ounces, grams, etc., to measure 1oz of cheese. I've always been told to measure pasta cooked...which is about a cup. Again, I would weigh it on a scale not a measuring cup because weight is more accurate since pastas have so many different shapes. Don't worry, you won't have measure every time. After a few couple times you will a good idea of how much 1oz of cheese (or any other food you commonly eat) looks like.

I thought 10-20 grams of fat was a lot too. I started out only using just under 10grams but I have since increased it and haven't noticed an increase in my weight! The fat in your protein is not included in this amount.

BTW, my coach said we are allowed up to 5grams of fat for dinner to account for things like oil in cooking or a bit of grated Parmesan cheese.

There are certain foods that fall under a protein/fat category, like nuts or yogurt with fat, so they can be counted as a protein when considering your snack. I have counted nuts as a fat for one of my lunches in the past. Like you, I didn't "get" the fat at lunch, so I didn't add any or added very little. Now after finding a couple yummy ideas, I totally embrace it! Two of my favorites are:

Mushroom cap pizza bites- cremini mushrooms, pizza sauce, & mozzarella cheese; preheat oven to 400 degrees. Snap stems off, bake caps on nonstick sprayed or foil lined baking sheet for 6 minutes. Pour out liquid pooled in the caps, then set oven to broil. Spoon pizza sauce in each cup, and fill with grated cheese. Broil for 1-2 minutes. These can be eaten immediately or made ahead and eaten later. Yum! There are so many variations you can do with this, Brie/pesto/sun-dried tomatoes, bacon/Swiss/spicy mustard, etc.

Zucchini tots- 1 cup grated zucchini (wring out excess water), 1 egg, 1/4 diced onion, 1/4cp grated cheddar cheese, salt&pepper; preheat oven to 400 degrees. Spray a mini muffin tin with non-stick cooking spray. Combine and mix all ingredients in a bowl. Fill each muffin section to the top, pushing down on the filling with a spoon (otherwise they'll fall apart more when you remove them from the tin). Bake for 15-18 minutes. The tops will start to brown. Run a plastic knife around the edge to easily remove. This makes about 12 tots. Leftovers! Again, you can adjust this to your liking or for variation by changing the cheese or spices or adding things like bacon, ham, sun-dried tomatoes, etc. If you find they are too moist and fall apart, next time add another egg white or add almond flour/meal or protein powder. These are delish on their own or with pasta sauce, salsa or WF BBQ sauce.

When you all say that you are sensitive to the starches, do you mean that you can't digest it, i.e., you get a stomach ache, or you felt bloated or gained weight immediately? Just curious...

The fat-free cheeses are a great way to add that little something to dinner meals. Fat-free feta is great. I even take a WF dressing and process it with some feta or, buttermilk, or the fat-free yogurt to make a creamier dressing. I've got regular and fat-free versions of mozzarella, feta and cheddar in my freezer.

It is stressful doing this change, but really, the foods are great. Once you get the hang of what you like and what fits your lifestyle and body, you'll be sailing along...

When I added back starchy carbs at dinner in P4, I got headaches, a sharp pain in my upper stomach and night sweats in the middle of the night, the following morning I would wake up with the same headache and have brain fog, fatigue, and terrible muscle pains in my neck and shoulders. I also had an increase in weight which I needed anyway because I was 5lbs under weight (I didn't gain weight in P3). I felt these things for years before going on IP, even went to doctors and chiropractors, had blood tests done and they found nothing to explain what I was feeling so I just lived with it. While on IP I felt great and somehow forgot about how terrible I felt before the diet until I started adding things back in. After being free of pain and fatigue for several months, it's unbelievable I was able to live with that pain for so long!

I think I can tolerate some starchy carbs because I didn't get these symptoms while having P3 breakfasts, that included small amounts; it was only when I started P4 when I started to notice them again.

Wow....I wonder if you have Crohn's or Celiac disease, or just a gluten tolerance problem? I have noticed some inflammation coming back too, and I'm going to check out Crohn's or Celiac, both of which can produce inflammation. Blood tests don't tell everything though - I think they need to take a biopsy of the colon to diagnose.

Good luck to you...

Day 3 of P4 and I messed up my lunch with some grapefruit...oops. Other than that, it's been going okay. It's certainly a work in progress trying to figure it out and get some patterns in place. In time....

Carbs and I are also enemies. Bloating and water retention.

Thanks Sewman. After reading this, I had to check out both diseases. Between the two, the things I've felt sound more like Celiac symptoms. About a year ago my doctor suggested a colonoscopy, which I did, but nothing showed up; however, they didn't do a biopsy. Yikes! It's amazing the things we find out about ourselves on this diet, isn't it? BTW, two more symptoms that I had for years (I haven't noticed them since going on IP or even while in P4) was a feeling of being bloated, ALL the time, and floating stools. One of the reasons I probably haven't experienced those now is because so far I haven't eaten enough starchy carbs, like I have in the past, before the going on IP.

Hi All,

I am week 3 of phase 4 and I have gained 5 lbs. I haven't gained inches. I basically eat Sun, Mon, Tues Phase 1 or 2. Wed, thurs, fri phase 3 and go buck wild on saturday eating pasta and dessert and having a few classes of wine.

I am going to get through the next few weeks like this because I have parties ever weekend until June 3rd. But has anyone else experienced weight gain? I find it really annoying because I stalled out and stopped losing so I gave up and phased out. I had wanted to go 5 more lbs so I'd end where I wanted to be instead of where I am now, which is 5 lbs more than I wanted.

Anyone else gaining weight or have thoughts on how to maintain?

Thanks!

I finally remembered to upload these handouts my coach gave to me before going into Phase 4. Hope you will find some of the info helpful while you're transitioning into maintenance!

aaannnd here's a couple more :)

Thank you for all of these documents!

Wow, thank you so much for the documents. It will be most helpful. Five days in and I'm up 1 1/2 lbs....grr. Gotta figure it out SOON. And yes, I'm logging everything, exercising and trying to stay within what I thought were the correct gram guidelines. I'm not being so correct...

I was noticing an increase in my weight also, during the first couple days of Phase 4. In my case, it was because I didn't increase the carbs slowly to see were my limits were. Instead, I added carbs to the maximum given in the handouts, thinking that was how much I was allowed. Not only did I gain weight I felt horrible. Since then, I limit the starchy carbs I have to little or none and increased my fat. For example I have a couple tablespoons of oat bran a day for breakfast and sometimes I have a corn tortilla with dinner (cut into strips for my salad); otherwise my dinner is another fat meal, like lunch, where I add cheese, nuts and/or oil.

I still eat 8oz of protein for dinner and sometimes lunch, unless I have one of those 5oz packets of tuna; also, I still have a giant salad for lunch and dinner. There isn't much room in my tummy for much more so I don't feel like cheating or have any desire to overeat starchy carbs or fatty foods.

My giant salad (for dinner and lunch) consists of:
1/4 head of Iceberg lettuce plus 3 large leaves of Romaine lettuce;
1 red pepper, chopped
1/4 red onion, chopped
4 stalks celery, chopped
sometimes 1/2 English cucumber, chopped
and one of the following (depending on what's for dinner): sauteed mushrooms, roasted aspargus, steamed zucchini, etc.
2 tablespoons of WF dressing

Thank you, GoodEatsandWine. I am going to print all of these out. So helpful. The fat carb deal for lunch and dinner was so confusing to me.

I picked up some veggie burgers but they all have rice and grains in them. I would love to have them at lunch with a salad but they seem more like a dinner item per P4.

Then again we can switch dinner and lunch. Sometimes I prefer the big salad at dinner.

They actually might be a better breakfast item.

Thanks for the recipe files! Isn't it amazing how we can make really great food that is not necessarily high fat or high carb? The experimenting and inventing has been one of my favorite things about this journey...

Thank you soo much Good Eats!!! This is a huge help.

Uh oh! Let us know how things continue to go. I start tomorrow.
How's vacation? And phase 4? .. I start tomorrow. And I'm really craving chinese. Now sure if I want to use my free day or not tomorrow.
I never thought about how the veggie burgers have grains in them. Hmm.. I eat baked tempeh strips like they are french fries almost every night. I also have boca burgers everyday for lunch during the week. They are so good! I dont think they have effected my losses so I think I'll continue to use them, unless I do a huge salad with some fat.

I bought this and am going to try it out this weekend. I'm excited about zucchini noodles with a tomato sauce. Maybe even meatballs? yum.