I definitely have that rebellious side but after my posts yesterday and talking with my amazing and understanding husband who doesn't really get the whole emotional eating thing but listens to me and has insights anyway, I realized my rebellious side is (this sounds so lame psychology) being angry at my mother. (and it is not ok to be angry at her consciously) When I eat I am saying "take that! I can eat as much of this as I want and its ALL MINE!" Yeah so... I have never been aware of that before and so I hope it helps me.

I had a hard day yesterday. I was having a very strong emotion about something going on in my life that is actually related to my mom and I didn't want to deal with it or feel it. I didn't realize that until I spent an entire day stuffing myself. I didn't want to feel hungry, I just wanted to eat and eat and eat. It was crazy! I haven't eaten like that in months. But, the good thing is, at the end of the day when I felt sick and my stomach hurt I was able to look back and say OK something is obviously going on here, what is it? And by tracing backwards to the point when suddenly I had to eat everything and talking about it I was able to figure it out. And then I was able to feel all the sad and terrible feelings and they didn't kill me! Hard to believe. I know that even though I did spend yesterday eating compulsively, I have come very far because instead of beating myself up for it, feeling fat, or planning my next diet, I took that as the red flag that it was and was able to figure out what was really going on with me.

It kind of blows my mind how when that DOES happen I just am not aware. All I know is that I want to EAT and I DO NOT CARE. I try to be like hmmm this must be emotiona- and my other part of me says I WANT THE FOOD and so I eat, I can't analyze what is going on in the heat of the moment. If its a big bad emotion that I am covering up with food so far it feels like I have no control. And I have amazing control over every other aspect of my life. I don't lose my temper in fights, I have wells of infinite patience with the children, I almost never raise my voice. But when it comes to eating to not feel a powerful emotion that I don't want to feel... no control at all.

When its something small like children stress, or an argument with my husband I can feel the urge to eat and recognize it for what it is and choose not to eat. But, not with the big baddie stuff.

Anyway, novel #2. Thanks for helping me work through this stuff. It really helps to be able to talk about it with fellow IE'rs. :)

Geneen Roth talks about dieting rebels. She divides problem eaters into two groups: restrictors and permitters. Restrictors are the type that know the calorie count of everything they put in their body. They count, weigh, and measure religiously. They tend to always be on some sort of diet. The permitters are those that rebel against stuff like that- I'm going to eat until I pop because life's too short to not have fun. She of course acknowledges that everyone has both restrictor and permitter tendencies and can go back and forth; people do tend to lean toward one or the other, though.

I'm a permitter. I can go on diets and restrict but there will come a point when I will rebel against it and have a binge. The important thing for me is to go by how my body feels about foods. If I tell myself I can't have cake for breakfast because it's bad for me, or because it will make me fat then it's only a matter of time until I have cake for breakfast, a lot of cake, very quickly, and probably secretly. If I discover, however, that cake for breakfast makes me feel like sh!t for the rest of the day then I won't do it and I'll be happy with that choice. No reason to rebel because the choice came from within and not from external rules and messages.

Pinkhippie,
I've also been feeling the same way and wondering why. Like I'll know that I'm full but I just want to eat more to tell myself that I can and it's okay and I won't be depriving myself anymore.But like you I also think it has to do with the restrictions my mom always placed on me and now I keep telling myself that I can always have whatever I want. Even if my body doesnt necessarily want it.

But I think that knowing why I'm doing this will help me stop doing it.

Koalifornia, Im glad you could relate to what I said. ( although Im sorry you are dealing with that issue as well) I felt so dumb typing that out but I always share just in case anyone else can get any kind of insight from it.

I think it REALLY helps to be aware of stuff like this.

Yesterday, I ate breakfast until I was satisfied. Then I ate lunch. Then, I didn't think about food again until I was grocery shopping 30 minutes before dinnertime and was suddenly thinking about how good the bread smelled. At that moment I realized my thoughts were COMPLETELY food free between lunch and dinner. That never ever ever happens for me. I always agonize about if I need an afternoon snack, and those are the hours I often ask myself if Im hungry. Then I got home and I ate dinner. I was hungry after nursing my toddler before bed and I had a snack. Then I didn't think about food again the rest of the night. Another first. A lot of times I will choose not to eat because I recognize Im not hungry but food will still keep popping into my head.

I think working through my mom issues the other night made a HUGE difference. Just being aware of things is moving on the path toward change. i think its part of the process to sometimes have to eat more just to prove to yourself that you can after lots of restriction, and if someone else did the restricting than yeah you might have to work through some anger issues against that person. Just my experience though. :)

@Pinkhippie I think that's a great discovery to make, and that's so great that you were able to not think about food.

I'm thinking about food constantly for the past couple of days. I'm also a lot hungrier than usual. It could be totm or the fact that I barely ate over the weekend. Last night I was so tired when I came home from work. Normally that would mean that I have a diet coke or maybe overeat and power through the tiredness. I just ended up going to bed around 7pm and sleeping pretty much through the night. IE has given me insights about listening to my body's other needs, too. When my body needs sleep a diet coke or food isn't going to help. Only sleep will.

I'm feeling a little anxious about eating this week. My ability to tolerate hunger is way down. As soon as I start to get hungry I find myself eating. I also find myself planning meals throughout the day. In the afternoon I start thinking about what I'd like to pick up at the store for dinner, etc. I'd rather just not think about food at all but I remind myself that this is a process and it's getting better day by day.

I find myself thinking about food all day long. I'm constantly prepping food, shopping for food, cooking food, eating food or thinking about what I should make for dinner. And when I'm not involved in all those activities I'm washing dishes. It's always been like this but I am becoming sick of that routine. I have to make my own breakfast, then make LO's breakfast (he eats later than I do and something different than I eat). Then after we go out for our morning walk we go to the grocery store to buy food for dinner. I've always enjoyed this routine, I don't have to plan things out days in advance, and it keeps me physically active. Then I have to get home, prep his lunch and feed him, then I have to prep my lunch and feed myself. After LO's nap I have to prep his snack. Then I have to get started on kitchen duty and dinner prep. Then I have to cook, eat, put LO to bed and the day is over and it's been nothing but food food food. If I had to worry just about myself things would be a little less food hectic.

Thanks Locke! I have to ask, why is it bad to eat if you are hungry? Isn't this the whole goal? Maybe its good that you are less able to tolerate hunger, maybe you are getting in touch with your body now that you are feeding yourself when you are hungry?

Hah Wannabe that is exactly my routine except I have 3 LO's to plan for and we only go grocery shopping once a week. But yes, prepping food, cooking, cleaning the kitchen, I feel like I do those activities constantly on a daily basis. I usually don't eat lunch when my kids eat or even what they eat so I fix their lunch and then make my own and eat it during nap time. And we eat at 5 so dinner prep usually begins around 3 30. Yesterday I actually had my husband make dinner so I got a break from some of the food stuff. (except when I went grocery shopping! )

You both make fair points. I guess it's the usual thing I'm just anxious about it. Food gives me anxiety. It's getting better I just still don't trust myself 100% around food. We celebrated birthdays at work today with ridiculously good cupcakes from a local bakery. I was hungry and I took mine to my desk and it was soooo good. I ate it slowly and savored every bite. Then I felt like I should eat my lunch because I don't usually feel good if I eat a sweet and nothing else. I made the lunch I planned- two pieces of whole wheat toast and tuna salad with a glass of whole milk. I would normally eat all of this and some fruit to be satisfied. I ate one piece of toast and less than half of the tuna salad, no fruit. I was satisfied and not stuffed or sick. So yes it seems like I can trust my body and it's okay to eat the way that I'm eating.

Hey everyone,
I'm just going through a rough patch at the moment and finding it really difficult. I have a bad cold right now and it's that time of the month for me and to top it all off I had an extremely bad falling out with my best friend this week.
My ability to honor hunger and fullness has just gone out the window and I feel like Ive been eating way more than I'm hungry for. I just don't know if my cold has made me really hungry or if Its just the emotional stress I've been going through. I honestly just feel miserable and I don't know how to get back to the place I was at.

I understand feeling anxious around food, I am still working on that too. I think it takes a while to go away but it sounds like you are really listening to your body.

Hey be easy on yourself. This is a journey of some steps forward and some steps back. There will be weeks that feel like this and weeks that feel like amazing progress. What will help you the most is to be understanding and compassionate toward yourself and try to remain aware. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff going on right now. It will pass. Just keep trying when you are ready and be gentle with yourself. Think of it as a learning opportunity. Often after something like that happens I am able to look back on my eating and figure out what feeling I was trying to cover up or not feel. I get insights that I never would have gotten if not for the red flag of not honoring my hunger. I still have trouble doing it in the moment but Im getting better. :)

My nutritional therapist stresses that not every day is going to feel like a great day, but when I make food choices for reasons other than hunger that I have to try my best to stay in a curious state of mind rather than a guilty state of mind. The whole point of this is to eliminate emotional eating, and sometimes it's possible to stop it and sometimes it's not possible. I have to ask myself a series of questions:

- Am I really hungry?
- Is something bothering me? Am I anxious/stressed/worried about something else that's making me reach for food?
- Is this a feeling I can sit with for a while?
- If not, is there another pressing need that I'm overlooking such as tiredness, boredom, loneliness that I can find another outlet for?

Sometimes these questions are too difficult to answer, so I eat and let the questioning resume after I eat. As long as I find an accurate answer for the questions I try not to stress out if I had to eat. Stay curious so that you can figure out what your body is asking of you, if you cloud it up with feelings of failure and guilt then you can't make improvements.

The one thing that has really stuck with me from this process is that every time I identify what's REALLY bothering me and use a different method of coping than food I am rewiring my brain. I'll say it again. I'm rewiring my brain every time I find an appropriate way to cope with discomfort that does not involve food. And this is the true power of IE - it's not really about weight loss or making peace with food or anything like that - it's about truly finding ways to nurture yourself that are effective and appropriate.

Why is our community so small? Why are such few people able to give IE a chance? Even someone like me with an eating disorder came very naturally to the conclusion that diets don't work. How many decades of dieting can people endure? It's frustrating to watch someone lose and gain and lose and gain and then blame the gain on themselves. It feels like I can never go into any other thread because as soon as I give an opinion I get attacked as an IEer.

I was reading a passage in Intuitive Eating giving an example of a woman "Marilyn" who was a very successful lawyer and displayed a lot of hard work and determination towards her career yet was unsuccessful in controlling her weight. That was a question I asked myself all the time "how can I be so successful at my job/school/mothering and all areas of my life and fail so miserably at dieting?" The passage goes:

"Why was Marilyn able to be so disciplined in one area of her life but not in the other? The word “discipline” derives from the word disciple. According to Stephen Covey’s work, if you are a disciple to your own deep values that have an overriding purpose, it’s likely that you’ll have the will to carry them out. Marilyn believed deeply that writing exacting contracts and keeping immaculate records were requisites to building confidence with her clients and her law firm. But, somehow, hearing that bread was wrong on one diet and anything with sugar was wrong on another, did not engender the same kind of deep beliefs. Try as she might, she couldn’t really believe that chocolate chip cookies were that evil!"

Anyway, this excerpt rang true for me and I've come to realize that I rebelled against diets because deep down I knew that food was not the problem.

This is all really great stuff. The bolded is what I think is so important to remember and what really helped me too.

I know Wannabe, it is sad that our community is so small. We are basically 4 people talking to eachother and I am really grateful for each and every one of you. I think though, that its because this is a "diet" forum. people that come here are looking for weight loss,(sometimes by any means possible) not making peace with their bodies. I actually came across a forum that was devoted to IE and I think those are the kind of places you would have to go to find more like minded people. Also, I think when you are on a diet you have to be in a certain mindset. One of the big ones being that you can't trust your body otherwise you would go wildly out of control. So, people in that mindset are not going to be open to the IE message.

As for me, I am continuing to work through my issues. I have gotten pretty good at waiting until Im hungry and eating until fullness/satisfaction. Its almost unconscious at this point as long as Im hungry when I start eating. But, my personal struggle has still been emotional eating and eating in a more healthy manner without triggering deprivation feelings.

I realized yesterday that DUH I was raised in a extremely restrictive environment with food. My parents followed the Paul C Bragg diet. No breakast, only fruits and vegetables and seeds... I wasn't allowed to eat breakfast. I absolutely wasn't allowed sugar to the point that my parents would call ahead to birthday parties to let them know I couldn't have any of the cake. Class trips to mcdonalds were spent eating unsalted french fries while everyone else had hamburgers and shakes.

Years later my mom told me that she would sneak out and get KFC and donuts, but I didn't have that option. When my parents got divorced when I was a teenager then my mom would sometimes buy sugary treats but most of the time no. When I was a preteen we moved to where I could walk to the store, so I would use my allowance and I would go buy huge amounts of candy bars and then hide them in my room. It made me feel powerful and in control to have them and no one else could take them away. ( since they were hidden)

Anyway, I think that has been my sticking point on eating more healthily. Since I was forced to eat healthy as a child, as an adult I still have that inner rebellion when I tell myself I should eat healthy. I have been working on replacing should with want. "I want to eat this salad because salads make me feel great". Not, "I SHOULD eat this salad because its good for me." It has been making a difference especially once I realized how much old stuff was affecting me. I have JUST started having breakfast and discovering that I really enjoy it. It feels self nurturing and like something nice I am doing for myself that I never allowed myself to do before. I used to never eat breakfast but I would eat a lot at night after dinner. Justifying it by saying "well I didn't eat breakfast'. Now I eat breakfast and don't snack at night. It feels much better. :)

@Koali - Just be gentle with yourself. Give yourself time to heal. Don't worry that you've been eating too much, just forgive yourself. Every meal is another opportunity to eat mindfully and intuitively. Like Wannabe said, you're rewiring your brain.

@Wannabe - I think most people can't handle the slow and gentle weight loss that occurs with IE. They don't want to fix their relationship with food, or if they do it's an afterthought. Their main goal is to be THIN. If only they can be THIN, then they will be happy, fulfilled, etc. etc. Well that's not true. There are plenty of thin people who are unhappy with their bodies, who are despairing, lonely, sad, etc. What you eat is one of the few things that people actually have control over in their lives so it's hard for them to just leave it be and to eat what they need rather than what they think is good. Diet is the new religion. You can see it in the words that people use to describe things here, in how some foods are clean, pure, (HOLY); others are the opposite. Rice cakes and protein shakes are the new communion. I'm happy that this group is here. I've stopped visiting the other forums on this website and just look at this thread. I'm much happier that way.

@Hippie- I find your childhood stories illuminating. I've been thinking for the past few days about how my childhood could be reflected in my eating patterns. My parents served me and my little sister crap food, plain and simple. We got hot dogs, toaster waffles, pop tarts, canned fruit and vegetables, frozen dinners, etc. My mom did outlaw some things; for example we weren't allowed to have regular soda, only diet drinks. I was overweight and obese as an older child but very skinny when younger.

My childhood wasn't very happy. I had an angry dad who could be quite abusive, especially when drinking. I was gifted and my parents didn't know how to nurture that. They never really taught me how to take care of myself, either. The voices in my head that criticize me and tell me I'm worthless and deserve all the negative things in my life are their voices. I think eating was an escape from feeling feelings about that. With all the crap food in the house it wasn't hard to escape, either.

I was very active in sports early on but as I gained weight from the emotional eating it became harder. My dad finally stopped me from trying out because he said I was too fat. Looking back I can only shake my head as to the reasoning behind that. So without soccer, tennis, and softball with weight shot up tremendously. My mother was (and is) a chronic dieter and she taught me everything she knew about losing weight. She told me that if I wasn't attractive I would never find a good man or would be alone forever.

High school was a nightmare as an obese teenager. No one ever asked me on a date or to the school dances. I had a few friends but I was shy and reserved because of my self hatred. At sixteen I found drugs and alcohol helped me escape my body so I started getting mixed up with them. I also found that while boys / men wouldn't date me they would sleep with me so I started doing that. That's basically been my modus operandi through college and into my adult life. Just meaningless pleasure and pain as attempts to avoid feelings.

So basically my whole life has been trying to escape from the voices inside me that criticize and tell me that I'm not worthy of the space I take up on the planet. After 17 years of doing this I can say that the project is a failure. It's time to find a new way to live life. That's why I'm here for IE- it's really my only hope.

Locke, I totally agree with you about how people think about food here and anytime they are on a diet.

Im glad you are finding my childhood stories somewhat helpful. It feels so cliche to look back at childhood to find the issues but it truly seems like that is where so many of them spawned. It's especially helpful to look at family dynamics and food. From what you have shared here I can definitely see where your trouble with self care and food would come from.

I myself really struggle with feeling worthy and deserving to take care of myself. My family places a lot of value on thinness. My dad is kind of emotionally unavailable but he will light up like he is happy and proud of me when I lose weight and he will ALWAYS comment on it. My mom is the exact same way. She will say things like " oh those jeans make you look so SKINNY!" ( Like she is so happy and proud.) I remember once after I had the flu and didn't eat for a week how they both commented on how great I looked. And I was not an overweight kid or teenager. I wasn't a tiny slip of a thing but I was muscular and healthy. My eating disorder didn't kick in until I started dating. And of course only dating shallow guys who liked thin girls. Part of me wants to be thin to please my family, and the other part of me says screw you love me for who I am. Obviously I am conflicted.

I am reading this great book about that called "Starting Monday" by Karen Koenig. It talks a lot about the beliefs we form about ourselves in childhood including being unworthy, undeserving, or there being something wrong with us. That whole book really hit home for me, it might be something that would help you too. (and all of us on this thread) Its kind of what sparked me going back to my childhood to figure out a lot of my emotional blocks when it comes to overeating. It has been really helpful for me.