Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
I've only been doing this for 4-5 days now but I will say that I was a little disappointed getting on the scale this morning. No gain, no loss. It's weird because I FEEL skinnier today and I'm sad that the scale doesn't reflect that. It also sent me thinking about the foods that I ate and berate myself a little bit for it. I'm not giving up because feeling better is a great deal more desirable to me than just losing weight and feeling deprived. I'm just going to continue trusting myself that I will eat when and what I want and stop when I've had enough and hope that soon my body will stop telling me to eat fattening foods lol.

How do your clothes feel? You may be losing inches and your scales haven't caught up yet. Sometimes we can tell more by how our clothes fit than what the scales say. Also feeling lighter is a good thing, I think. I know right now my scales aren't moving, but my clothes feel loose, fasting blood sugar is coming down. I used my measuring tape the end of December and while I haven't lost much weight, my measuring tape was very nice to me. I will measure again the end of Feb.

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
Shopping mindfully - how do you stock up on food? Would I be craving pigs in a blanket for breakfast if there weren't some leftover in my fridge after the Super Bowl? How do you shop healthfully and mindfully and keep your kitchen full of healthy foods that aren't junk? Or do you buy junk and let yourself be tempted? I'm trying to follow my intuition buy should I buy food without judgement either?

Most of the IE literature encourages you to have plenty of trigger foods available, which reinforces the practice of making peace with ALL food. The theory behind this is that if you have it available AND you know you can have it anytime you are HUNGRY, then you are legalizing these foods, which is the goal of IE.

If you have all these foods, however, and simply cannot stop eating them when you are NOT hungry, I'm not sure it's a good idea. I'm not speaking of an occasional lapse with increasing success at doing so; I'm speaking of those who are having NO success at all at doing this without the rigor of a diet.

And I do think that IE is not for everyone. I think one has to be at a certain place in their "dieting" life where they can put weight loss on the back burner and that they know they'll never diet again, no matter what.

Just my opinion, however.

What's the difference between IE, mindful eating and thintuition? That's a but confusing.

A little overboard today, struggling with eating only to satisfy hunger today. I ate pretty intuitively during the Super Bowl even amidst the chaos. But today with lots of goodies left over I couldn't control myself.

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
What's the difference between IE, mindful eating and thintuition? That's a but confusing.

As far as I'm concerned, they are all the same thing, although "intuitive eating" I think is more aligned with the concept of eating ONLY when hungry, whereas "mindful eating" is more about savoring the food you do eat. Thintuition is nothing more than a marketing term used by Rob Stevens for his website and book. He never mentions the term "intuitive eating" but it's basically the same thing.

Don't worry about your lapse today, Wannabeskinny. If most of your eating has been strictly in response to true hunger rather than mouth hunger, then you're doing fine. You're not going to be perfect at it. I know when I first started I thought "Oh this is just so SIMPLE! Eat only when I'm hungry and stop when full." But it's not that easy at all. I do think it is for some people, but not most.

I will say that one thing that really helps me when I'm tempted to eat when not hungry is that I remember why I started this in the first place, and I remind myself just HOW MUCH I hated being on a diet and restricting food. Most of the time that keeps me on track. I find something else to do and promise myself that WHEN I GET HUNGRY I can have the same food I'm wanting at the moment I'm not hungry. More often than not, I end up eating something else...but not always.

I read a bit of Geneen Roth's book Breaking Free from Emotional Eating (which for the most part I didn't care for) and in it she talks about when she first started practicing IE that she ate cookies and/or cookie dough for most of her meals for almost two weeks. She'd sit down at the table with her friend that she was living with at the time, the table was set beautifully and she would eat all this in a somewhat formal setting. She eventually started eating a little protein but continued to eat this for most of her meals. After a few weeks she was sick to death of cookies.

Now I don't know if that really is true but I have had many people tell me that if they ate what they TRULY wanted for each meal they would eat nothing but junk forever. And they are convinced of that. I find that so hard to believe because I couldn't eat my favorite "indulgence" food - Zapp's Jalapeno chips - more than once for a meal, let alone every meal for two weeks. Heck, I couldn't eat a Longhorn Filet, salad with house dressing, and bread for one meal a day for two weeks, as much as I LOVE that meal! I just HAVE to have variety. I've always been a person who can't eat poorly for any length of time without craving the foods my body needs, and even when I eat very nourishing foods I have to have a wide variety of them as well.

But apparently not everyone is that way. Which was a revelation to me, I will admit.

Maven I agree with you wholeheartedly especially on this is not for everyone. The reason I believe it is for me is that this is was the "normal" for me until I was brainwashed into thinking that I had to eat 3 + meals a day. Which btw is how and when I started gaining weight and then ended up on the "diet" roller coaster.

Another thing I read today when looking at the IE book that really messed me up when I was following IE successfully. I was going llllooonnnggg periods of time without eating because I was not hungry. At that time I was on another IE website and I asked the question "how long can you go without eating on IE?" The answer derailed me. I was told that you could not go any longer than 5 hrs without eating. Of course now we are learning of people doing Intermittent Fasting who only eat during a 5 hr window. So their answer was not true for "all". If I had not listened to their warning, I might be thinner and happier with my eating now. There were lots of time when I was thin in my younger years eating only when hungry, I might go all day without eating and eat only one meal. Some days I needed a snack during the day before I ate my meal. Some days I might eat my meal around 5 or 6 and then there were days that I wasn't hungry until 9 or 10 at night. I just went with my hunger signals. I could sit with others while they ate and never eat a bite of food. I just enjoyed the fellowship with them. Strange thing is that I can still do that when eating with folks only because I get so busy with the conversation that I forget to eat more than a few bites. The next thing I know is that our meal is over and I just wasn't hungry for food, just desired the time with friends and family. I sure hope I can get back to living that way on a daily basis.

I agree to about eating the same thing at every meal until I'm sick of it. Now, I don't buy potato chips very often because I don't trust me with them. The reason being that there are times when I could sit and eat one whole huge bag at one sitting meal or snack... doesn't matter. However, there are other times that they could sit in the house and go stale. I just never know how they are going to affect me. However, I will get a bag of them if I really, really want them because I know better than to make them totally off limits. Same thing with nachos. So I make those a special treat when I go eat at Chili's or Wild Buffalo Wings and DH and I share an order.

For me IE is learning how to honor my hunger and then satisfy it. I realized this morning that I've been eating when I'm not hungry because I thought I needed to eat something. I'm going to work at changing that.

Love the conversations here as they really do help me and I hope it helps others as well.

Trish, I believe it's in the Intuitive Eating book by Tribole and Resch that they say you should not go more than 5 hours without eating. One of the MANY reasons I don't like that book.

And speaking of books, the one I mentioned above - Geneen Roth's book - oh, YUCK and double-YUCK. It was all about her. I found it totally useless and really just sort of skimmed over it. After I realized how bad it was I went to amazon and read a few reviews of her books, including the one-star ones. (I suspect her books are all pretty much the same). A lot of these reviews echoed my own thoughts - that the book was more about her, her friends, her MOTHER (who she apparently has serious issues with), and her workshop participants. These women (including Geneen) seem riddled with all sorts of issues. I couldn't relate at ALL.

I won't be reading any more of her books. What a total waste of time.

It's interesting that everyone here is saying that IE is not for everyone. So far what I'm understanding from reading the Overfed Head (finished it!) is that this is the normal way of eating, our ability to eat when we're hungry and stop when we're full is our birthright and this ability resides within us all, and the whole point of intuitive eating is to get back down to the basics of eating for hunger. Why is this not for everyone? I would say that no matter what "diet" anyone chooses to follow that the principle of eating when you're hungry and stopping when you're full still applies.

Even if one decides to limit their portions, or keep junk food out of the house, you can still enjoy your food and be satisfied with what's on your plate, I think that mindful eating plays a role in that. If you're on a diet and you look at your plate and think "this is all i'm allowed to eat" then of course you're going to feel unsatisfied.

Anyway, yesterday was a difficult day for 2 reasons. First there was no motion on the scale when I expected there would be. I took that pretty hard, and it shoved me into looking at my food choices over the weekend from a dieting perspective. It caused me to think "of course I didn't loose weight, I ate a donut! Sugar is evil, must cut carbs!" Secondly, I was surrounded by superbowl left overs, feeling a little down, and wanting a bit of an escape. I'm fully aware that I was reaching for food to fill an emptiness rather than a hunger and that issue will probably arise again.

Not to say that there weren't some good strides as well though, I didn't eat mindlessly although I did relax a bit and that's ok. If this is going to be a muscle that I strengthen it doesn't happen by doing continuous reps for days on end, one meal is not going to derail me. Dinner was eating mindfully and as long as I can get back on track I'm not willing to hate myself for not being perfect - that's a part of me I need to leave behind.

Ironically, the scale moved down today by half a pound.

Originally Posted by :
Why is this not for everyone?

I think it is. God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason.

Originally Posted by carolr3639:
I think it is. God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason.

Yey! I think that's where I'm headed with my experience here.

Hunger is a big concern for me. Or maybe that's not the right word, because hunger has meant a lot of things to me. It means loneliness, boredom, anxiety, stress, fear, doubt, emptiness. I hate to use the words "emotional eating" because there is something going on that is completely physiological and not at all emotional. Hunger is something I've been wanting to face for a long time. I've sort of known all along that hunger is the obstacle, it's the mountain that I need to make into a molehill.

For a while I've understood that facing the hunger is the big kahuna. It's what's going to make or break all of us. And all diets claim to stave off hunger. Quell the hunger, avoid the hunger, placate the hunger, tie us over until the next meal. High fiber diets claim that you'll feel fuller longer. High protein diets claim to keep hunger at bay. Low sugar diets claim to lower the hunger hormones. We're all skirting around the issue. We can't put a band aid on hunger. I don't want to avoid hunger. And I think that IE comes the closest to making peace with hunger. Naturally thin people understand hunger, they don't fear it, they don't avoid it. They experience it objectively but not emotionally.

I know that if I can get there, if I can learn how to live with hunger - I'm not talking starving here lol - then I can feel less scared of it. Mindful eating is almost Buddhist for me, it's about learning to find comfort within discomfort. It's about appreciating that discomfort for the vital role it plays in keeping us alive. I might be new to practicing IE, but I'm no fool. I know that calling it mindful eating, or thintuition or any marketing name is just a small way of explaining to myself that I need to stop eating for any reasons other than hunger. We live in a hungry world, hungry because some don't have enough to eat, hungry because those of us who have too much to eat are eating for the wrong reasons.

I wish I could go more than a few hours between meals. I tend to eat lightly these days, though, so I need to eat sooner. I would rather stop eating on the less than full side of satisfied than the more than full. I've seen naturally thin friends gorge on food before and not eat anything for 24 hours or so. I don't think I'm ready for that yet. I am enjoying the feeling of not being heavy with food. My body likes smaller meals more often I guess.

That's an interesting observation and assessment Locke. I'm still trying to figure that out. I don't like eating often but with IE I end up eating more frequently these days. I'd love to find a balance. There are some tricks I found while dieting that worked well that go against IE principles.

I'm continuing my skinny observations still. I thought today about something my mother says sometimes. She is one of those naturally thin eaters. She says often that she doesn't feel like eating much of ages not active. She'll say something like "I can't believe your father ate that huge bowl of spaghetti! He hasn't even done anything today!" So I know that to her food equals fuel and doesn't feel entitled to eat on less activity.

Wannabeskinny...about hunger....something about the feeling of deprivation goes right to the heart of all of us, I think. Any kind of deprivation, but hunger is the most crucial (next to breathing, I guess.) Just believing in abundance is counter-human, when we all have to struggle to survive in some way. But, if we can believe in abundance, I think we would be less anxious about a lot of things, hoping the food will be there when we need it, hoping there's enough "pretty" to go around so we're not stealing it from someone else, etc.

I am really struggling this month. I was doing so well for quite a while, but then after I got sick, everything started going downhill. I have such a hard time in the winter. This month, since Jan 1, it's been very difficult eating only when hungry and stopping when full. I had a New Year's party and probably drank too much, which I'm not used to. I think it messed up my system even more than it was from when I was sick. After that, I couldn't seem to stop eating. I've gained back all my weight, I'm sure. I don't weigh myself, so I can't prove it, but I can feel it. And the point is that I don't feel good physically or about myself when I'm like this.

I am now back to trying to eat mindfully and using mindfulness to evaluate my hunger level, but I'm finding that I'm getting tightness in my head - not quite a painful headache, but more like a squeezing sensation that doesn't want to go away, every time I feel a craving, but don't eat - when I'm not physically hungry. I truly don't think I'm hungry. It's almost like withdrawal...

I feel like I've been here a million times and wondering, is this going to go away? I'm feeling a little bit unsure of all of this. A few months ago, I felt so in control, but still, I look back and think I was secretly depriving myself, but I just wasn't admitting it. I don't want to feel deprived. I'm terrified of the pain.

Thing is, I'm not doing this to look good. I just want to feel good, and right now, I just don't. Overeating feels so gross to me. And I want to get back to my workouts, which always made me feel happier and more energized and capable.

I think my biggest problem is this issue of control. I don't want to control my food intake in the sense that I feel like it's an oppressiveness that I'll just end up rebelling against. If I can eat with kindness and self-compassion, devoid of control and power-tripping, then I should be okay. It's just finding that place has been difficult.

I remember years ago when I was in a diet group which had only 2 food plans to choose from. One was extremely strict with absolutely no starches allowed and the other one only allowed one slice of whole wheat toast with your breakfast. We were allowed only 3 meals a day and no snacks. I never really lost much weight, but I remember feeling like I was losing more than I was. Any way, one night a new lady came to our meeting. She had lost loads of weight and this was basically what she said...

"I know what I'm going to share with you is going to shock you and some of you probably aren't going to believe me. However, I have lost weight and I don't follow a diet. I eat anything I want to eat. If I want a banana split, I have a banana split. Now that may be the only thing I eat that day because that is all I wanted that day. But I eat whatever I want."

Well, we (even I who had stayed thin many years that way before gaining all the weight I was fighting to lose) all thought she must be crazy or lying. When I look back to what she said and how I ate when I was thin and every time that I successfully lost weight, I can only say in my defense is what Allen Carr says in his book; I had been brainwashed by "diets" into believing that was not possible and it was not healthy.

I agree with Carolr It really is for every, because God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason. Yes, I do believe we eat for nutrition to some extent but I also believe that God intends for us to enjoy what we eat as well as be satisfied. I also believe that if we were enjoying what we ate on a diet and being satisfied that there wouldn't be so many different diets out there. I think that was the point the woman who came to our meeting was trying to get across to us. The only thing I enjoyed about that diet was the eggs and bacon I had every morning. I felt cheated most of the time when I sat and ate salad, meat and non-starchy veggies while my family had the potatoes or rice I watched them enjoy. And I wasn't even losing any weight either. I actually felt like I was being punished/betrayed by my own body and didn't understand why. :?: And I tortured myself this way for years because I was afraid not to. Makes me wonder why I thought I had to do that.

No more. While I do like to count something at this time, today I am comparing WW pts with counting calories. I want to see what I'm really doing. So much easier to count calories if I'm going to count something than finding the pts on everything and a whole lot cheaper. Also I think it will be easier to do IE with calorie counting.

Great conversation girls. I am 70 yrs old trying to learn how to go back to eating the way I did growing up and a few yrs in my 20s when I was thin. My hope is that you girls will be able to learn this in your younger years so you can enjoy your life better.

Have a great day.

Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny:
For a while I've understood that facing the hunger is the big kahuna. It's what's going to make or break all of us. And all diets claim to stave off hunger. Quell the hunger, avoid the hunger, placate the hunger, tie us over until the next meal. High fiber diets claim that you'll feel fuller longer. High protein diets claim to keep hunger at bay. Low sugar diets claim to lower the hunger hormones. We're all skirting around the issue. We can't put a band aid on hunger. I don't want to avoid hunger. And I think that IE comes the closest to making peace with hunger. Naturally thin people understand hunger, they don't fear it, they don't avoid it. They experience it objectively but not emotionally.

One of the most important things that IE has taught me is that hunger is not an emergency. Whenever I dieted, I was either hungry or afraid of getting hungry. I don't fear hunger any more because I can eat whatever I feel is necessary to stop it.

When I say IE is not for everyone, it's not because I don't think everyone is capable of eating mindfully or intuitively; it's that in order to be able to make peace with food in their lives, people have to be in the proper mindset. They have to want to be able to eat intuitively more than they want to lose weight, for one thing. The weight loss, if any, will occur naturally once they become more in tune with their bodies.

Originally Posted by carolr3639:
I think it is. God gave us hunger and fullness for a reason.

I agree. I wonder why some people don't see it.