I'm healthy, happy and despite what you might think, extremely intelligent. I've never EVER binged except maybe on an occasional holiday, but no more then the average person. You sure are saving me a whole lot of pain by talking down to me. Thank you. I'm so glad I stumbled upon such a supportive, caring group of people. Guess this is not the place for me.

Thank you for coming out and saying this....

And kaplods... Thank you for your very well thought out response on this as well...

This place is very supportive and caring. You aren't being talked down to and intelligence has nothing to do with this. What people have said is out of concern.

Regardless of whether or not you have binged in the past, this type of restrictive eating CAUSES binges. And not little ones either. It caused huge, out of control binges. I wish I had known that when I was younger. I likely wouldn't still be dealing with all of this if I had.

You may be healthy and happy now, but the point is that you won't stay that way if you keep this up. I've put myself through it multiple times and would really rather not have other people go through what I went through.

You have been given excellent advise from good people who have been there. You aren't being picked on, I promise. Stick around.

I also don't see anyone talking down to you. People are just sharing their own experiences so that you can benefit from it (or not, your choice).

If you think you can find a more supportive environment, then look on other sites, maybe you'll find one that fits your needs better. Just don't mistake agreement for support.

I've I've visited a tremendous number of weight loss support sites, and I've found 3FC to be the most supportive. If you want agreement, then there are many pro-Ana and pro Mia sites (sites that promote anorexic and bulemic practices) that will agree with you and tell you exactly what you want to hear (though even then, some folks are going to disagree with you and will tell you that you're eating too much and should only be eating one meal every seven days). If you want true support, which includes not only "yeah, that's a great idea," or at least "Yeah, do whatever you want" support, but also "Lordy, that's a terrible idea, and here's why" disagreement, then you come here or to another GOOD weight loss site.

Even if you want only agreement, you can usually get it here, just by saying "I don't want to hear from anyone who disagrees with me." Just be honest about what you want, because people HERE are going to try to help, and they're going to say what they think will help, even if means saying what they believe you don't want to hear. So be honest with yourself and with the group. Do you want honest opinions, or do you only want ONLY agreement and encouragement, and don't want to hear from people who've had bad experiences with what you're doing?

Because on a GOOD support site, you're going to get both. And not everyone is going to be right, but you can bet that they're trying to help, even if they think it might sting a little to do so.

I'm the last person to resort to what many here call "tough love," but when I do, it can come off a little more than blunt. I don't mean to be hurtful, I've just lost patience, or found it impossible to be truthful without being more direct than my usual uber-caring, considerate "Have you considered this possibility" norm. Or sometimes people just hit a "sore spot" or a "hot-button topic" or one of my "passionate" beliefs. In this case it's the latter. I am so convinced that starvation diets CAUSE more obesity than they cure, that I'm not going to sugar coat my experiences (well, actually I guess I did. What I REALLY think is more harsh than what I've written).

No one here thinks you're stupid. Many of us have just been where you are, and we're sharing our experiences, and if they sound hurtful, it's a reflection of the pain we received in learning the lesson the hard way. We want to SAVE you from the trauma we experienced. And if you hear more horror stories than praise, it's because that's the truth of it. There's far more failure in what you're doing than success or you'd be hearing a lot of folks saying "Ignore these other idiots, I've lost weight and kept it off for years eating this way."

If you don't hear that, it's because those people don't exist. And if you hear from one person who says that and 99 people who disagree with what you're doing, it's because the failure rate for what you're doing is 99%. Either way, if you choose to, you can benefit from the experience of reading the positve and negative responses.


I have every confidence that you are extremely intelligent or I wouldn't have bothered replying at all. I don't waste my time on idiots. If I respond to a post, it's because I think the person IS quite intellligent, or I don't bother. I'm here to get help and to give help when I can. In my experience 99% of 3FC members are intelligent and willing to help. Every piece of advice isn't necessarily 100% correct or applicable to everyone, but we're trying.

If you look at the other sites, you will find some that only give "great job" replies even if the person is deciding that the best way to lose weight is with a chainsaw. You'll also find sites where folks are much blunter and meaner. I've found 3FC to be nicely in the middle. People are willing to help, but not at the expense of the truth as they see it.

You don't have to believe any of us, but do know that 99% of us are just trying to help, and possibly save you from some of the pain, heartache, and FAILURE that we've experienced.

Personally, I'm very science-based. All of my beliefs are based on medical research as filtered through my experience (I'm human so I do tend to "believe" the research that fits best with my experience, but I've also learned to re-evaluate my experience based on new science).

If you don't believe us, check out some of the research on these types of food plans. I didn't just decide that "it won't work for you, because it didn't work for me." I base my judgement on decades of formal science-based research (not trusting the book authors without going directly to the research article abstracts if not the actual research papers, as well as my own experience and that of all the people I've networked with over the years - researchers, professionals, doctors, dietitians, and people like me who've struggled with their weight).

If I knew ONE person who succeeded on a plan such as yours, I would have mentioned it. I've heard rumors of it working for a few men, but I've never met these men, and I've never heard of it succeeding for a woman. I've even seen many cases (including my own) in which it seemed to work tremendously, only to backfire explosively a few months or years down the road.

Crash dieting is ADDICTIVE for two very important reasons. One the "rush" of seeing the weight come off rapidly (or at least rapidly compared to more conservative methods), and secondly it releases addictive biochemicals.

One way in which crash dieting does this is by the actual damage that the diet is doing to your body. In response to this damage, the body releases endorphins. And at first, the endorphins outweigh the damage. The damage is so subtle (usually muscle being lost) you don't feel the pain of the damage, you only feel the rush of the endorphins. Much like a runner's high, the endorphins your body is using to address the damage is making you feel not just good, but "effing fantabulous."

When you feel that "fantabulous" it can be extremely difficult to hear "what you're doing is hurting you." You dismiss all criticisms, deciding that the critics don't know what they're talking about, or "they're just jealous or mean."

We're not. We've been there, and the crash is far, far worse than the endorphin high ever was... unfortunately the high is so great that it's very difficult to resist the temptation of experiencing that high again (Even though I firmly believe that crash diets are ineffective and virtually EVIL incarnate, I'm still tempted by them. I still remember and would love to achieve the drug-high of losing rapidly and getting those endorphins coursing through my body again). Even though I "know better" I will always be addicted to that high, and it would be so easy for me to get on that train-wreck of a rollercoaster again and again.

Crash diets are as addictive as heroine. You can bet that those of us who've been caught up in "chasing the dragon" are going to try to persuade others to avoid the trap of it.

You might be the exception. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible. You don't need to take offense at what we've said, or decide that what you're doing is wrong, but don't for a second think we're trying to hurt you. We want to help, and we see you going down a path we've gone down many times before with DISASTROUS consequences.

When I said "productive for you" about the 48 hr fasts, I meant productive for general you. I just wonder where you have gotten your information. Many of the other posters have addressed why it is not productive. All of the IF I have read about recommend fasting for anywhere from 14 to 24 hours and never more. Just curious...

I also wanted to add that not only have many of us been where you are, we've been EXACTLY where you are, and that includes feeling defensive and sometimes even hurt and angry when anyone challenged our choices.

We too thought that the critics were being harsh, judgemental and just plain WRONG about the wisdom of our choices. We thought they were jealous, mean, close-minded, and worse...

... because (as I already touched on) crash diets seem like such a GREAT idea in the short-term. And the endorphins and rush of seeing the short-term success (at least initially) overshadow the down side... until they eventually don't.

I don't want to belabor a point, and I think I probably made this point in my previous post, but I did want to be clear that it's not out of any negativity that we're saying this. We really are trying to spare you the pain and failure we experienced.

I feel sad and ashamed when I think back on all the people who tried to help spare me this lesson. Some of them I don't even remember their names, but I'd love to be able to go back and tell them each and every one of them "you were right, and I wish I had listened, and I'm sorry I accused you of trying to hurt me. I realize now you really were only trying to spare me a painful lesson."

Of course, I don't have to go back and give that apology, because they all knew that already. I learned that the hard way too, when I apologized to some of my still-close friends and family who tried to share the lesson. When I apologized, virtually all of them said they understood because they'd been THERE too (and by there I mean accusing critics of being hurtful when they were only trying to help).

IF is ok for some people. I'm not going to lecture you. I'm going to tell you about what I used to do.

I would "fast" for 3-5 days at a time when I was your weight in high school. That was great, I lost about 25 lbs. It was great until I passed out. It was great until it wasn't.

Please, for your sake, just eat healthy. Please.

Ugh, I forgot about the passing out. I wish I could say that I "learned my lesson" the first time it happened (also in high school), but I just got more skilled at "dancing around" the passing out. Taking some precautions against passing out like always carrying food in my purse that I never ate until I was just about to pass out, but even that didn't always work (I passed out IN a church confessional in college, because I thought whipping out my granola bar during confession would insult the priest. Instead I scared the crap out of him by passing out. I was so embarassed, I even lied about the cause to the priest because I didn't want to admit I hadn't eaten. It was a hot summer day, and I blamed the heat and "nervousness," but I wasn't nervous or hot, I was just starved).

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

Kaplod:

I'm just tired. I'm so very tired of this battle I've been fighting since I was 8 years old.. and I do not need some person (not you) telling me that they gurantee I am going to binge. How disrespectful. Have they no tact at all? Surely there is a better way to reach out to people.

While I appriciate Kaplod, your experiences, please try to remember that sometimes people can still get hurt behind these screens. Because yes, I struggle every day. I will take your words of experience and study into consideration, but it takes a lot for many people to open up, even to strangers.

Please do not leave this site because of what feels like a negative thread. There are many great people here. The same people you are disagreeing with at the moment could be the same people you are laughing with in a different thread on another topic (this is coming from personal experience lol!)

I think what everyone here is trying to say, in various ways, is that this is not something that is sustainable. It is counter-productive to support someone who is doing something you feel is going to actually hurt them in the long run. The goal of this site is to encourage people to lose the weight in a healthy sustainable manner and aid those who are having difficulties. It is hard to hear some of this things, especially if what you are doing is working, but they are only telling you the truth from both personal experience and research. No one ever wants someone to fail so if they are telling you something isn't going to work, its not to hurt your feelings but to help you in the weight loss battle!

I have been with this site for around a year and the people I see still visiting, still losing weight and still keeping on track are the people who have committed to a healthy weight loss program. The people we do not see anymore are the ones doing 700 calories a day, only drinking shakes.. things like that. If you stay with this site, you truly increase your chances with success.

Anyways, enough with that. As others have said, you can easily gain 2 pounds in water weight. If I have a high sodium day, I will be roughly 3 pounds heavier the next day with a huge bloated belly (I go from not looking pregnant to looking 3 months pregnant.. its nuts!)

There is an huge Intermittent Fasting area on this site that provides many great details. I know several people who have had huge success with it. However, I know these people follow the small eating time bracket each day as opposed to not eating at all for several days. I think they always eat all of their calories (1200-1800) within a 2-4 hour time frame every day.

Why has JohnP not said anything in this thread? I feel like this is his area of "expertise"!

Believe me, I understand the struggle and the difficulties. We all do, because we've been there, and sometimes we don't use the best words, because we don't know what they are, and even if we did we wouldn't always use them, because we're human.

Some people are going to come across as whiny, angry, bossy, arrogant, judgemental, lazy, excuse-making... you name it, you're going to see it on this board and all the rest. Tact isn't everyone's best suit, and sometimes "tough love" really is what someone NEEDS to hear (maybe you're not that person, but it doesn't change the fact that no one here can guess what you need - you're going to find the same on all the boards).

If you're not strong enough to have a VERY thick skin when asking questions of strangers, then you may not be ready to be here. I'm trying to be gentle with this, but there's no way to say gently that if you care much about what strangers think of you, this is not the place to be (nor is the internet in general).

This is a public forum, and you're going to get every kind of response, and people are going to usually respond in the way THEY'VE found most helpful.

Personally, I don't find "tough love" very supportive, but I'm not hurt by seeing it, because I've been told by many here that it was the blunt, no-nonsense, and even tough and angry posts that got their attention and their motivation fired up. They may be giving you what THEY needed when they were in your spot. You can't fault folks for doing what worked for them.

So if you're not strong enough to face ANYTHING that someone might say, you might want to shore up that strength. I can't guarantee that you'll never be hurt by a comment people make here (or anywhere) - because there is never a guarantee of that whenever honest opinions are involved. Sometimes the truth hurts.

You need to be prepared for that here and on any weight loss site, because not everyone is going to agree with you and some people are going to believe that the path you've chosen is doomed to failure. I am one of those people, and while I don't want to hurt you emotionally, if it means you take me seriously I'm willing to hurt you emotionally to save you physically if I can - because I've destroyed my health and I know people who have died doing what you're doing. If my post helps you stop before you jeopardize your life and your health, I'll gladly accept the blame for your feelings being hurt.

I understand your desperation, and know where it comes from. I've been battling my weight and severe morbid obesity since KINDERGARTEN - that's more than 41 YEARS, and by the time I was 13, I was so tired of fighting the battle, so frustrated and desperate that even though I knew even then that it wasn't a "good" way to lose the weight, my mother and I (for she was as desperate about my weight as I was) agreed to amphetemine diet bills - in 8th grade! (I'd already been on dozens and dozens of crash diets by then).

Even when I KNEW for sure that the crash dieting was a recipe for failure - knowing that I ALWAYS gained more than I lost (and by always I mean HUNDREDS of attempts at crash dieting) - even though I knew that the ultimate price would probably be MORE weight gain - I still had to "take a chance" on the crash diet, because I didn't think slow, and sensible would or even COULD work for me. I was so wrong, but I didn't have the patience to give it a sustained effort. I was too panicked.

It's like those people who burn to death in a fire, because they're pushing against a door that opens inward. Every instinct says "push, and push harder" and they don't think to pull.

"Slow and gradual," was the one method I never could stick with, because I'd get too impatient and panicky about getting the weight off. I wanted it off yesterday (if I could survive the chain-saw method, I would have tried it).

I could take any pain or torture in the short term, if rapid weight loss was the potential reward. Every hair-brained scheme and stupid way to diet - I've done it - more than once, and more than a dozen time each in most cases (sometimes hundreds of times choosing the same path that failed the prior hundreds).

It's hard to believe that crash dieting isn't the best way to lose weight, because it IS the fastest. It's also the hardest to sustain. It's also so dangerous that no one should undertake it without a medical supervision (and yet almost everyone who does it, doesn't take that step. They don't even get a normal checkup first). And because of that, many people die or are seriously injured every year by crash dieting - from heart damage and cardiac arrest, hyponatremia, gallbladder issues, nd other illnesses and horrible side effects (hair loss isn't dangerous, but it sure is embarassing).

If crash dieting worked in even a small, but significant minority, you would be hearing that. You will find a few cases if you search hard enough, but for every success story, you'll hear thousands of failure stories, so which do you think is more likely?

This would be so easy to say if I were just trying to hurt you. I'd call you some nasty names (probably get kicked off of this site), insult your heritage or intelligence and that would be the end of it. Telling someone something they don't want to hear is gut-wrenching, especially when you suspect it's information that could save their life. I know where I'd be if I'd continued with the crash dieting, 200 lbs heavier or dead (and dead is probably more likely, because I was inches away from it, and even diagnosed with a terminal illness before I was willing to really go out on a limb and try the last thing on earth I wanted to try - healthy, sensible, slow weight loss).

Thank God I did, or I would STILL be fighting the hopeless battle, because biochemistry (especially neurochemistry) tries to prevent us from choosing starvation. It's much like holding you're breath. You can do it for a long time, but eventually your hindbrain forces you do what you don't want to do. You probably won't pass out and eat while unconscious, although people on starvation diets have sleepwalked to the kitchen and binged during their sleep only to find the wrappers in the morning. It's virtually impossible to fight biochemistry on this, and that's why the failure rate is so high.

I wish you the best really, but I'm not willing to do any more than I've done. It's too painful for me to watch someone self-destruct and refuse to see it (or at least acknowledge that there could be a problem). Lashing out at people trying to help is normal, and I can accept that, but I can't help where the help isn't wanted. You have every right to make any decision you want. I do suspect though that some day, maybe in a few years, you'll be exactly where I and other posters are - trying to deter someone from making this mistake out of fear and desperation. We all literally have been there, and most of us realize we have no idea how to stop it, so we try anything we can think of - even rudeness and meanness to "shake" sense into someone (I personally don't understand how or why that works, but I've seen it work, so I can't be too judgemental of it).

I've hurt myself trying to help others, and that's something I'm not willing to do, so this will probably be my last post in this thread. I wish you the best, really and hope you find a sustainable path that doesn't harm your mental or physical health. If you want to do this, at least do it right and get the medical supervision that can catch the deadliest of side effects before they become fatal.

You don't think everyone else understands what you're going through? A lot of us have been there or are there now. I understand too!

I know the feeling of desperation; I know the feeling of being overweight since childhood and just not knowing what to do to finally be thin. I remember being a kid and just wishing I could be thin like all of the other girls and the pain I went through growing up. Trust me, I know and we all understand.

However, everyone here is just trying to help you. They've been there. They've done unhealthy things out of desperation and they're just trying to stop someone else from doing the same. Nobody here has been disrespectful—on the contrary they've been quite caring! They don't want anything horrible to happen to you and they barely know you at all—that's caring!

I know it hurts because you want to believe that this works, but know that you'll just be doing more harm than good. Your plan not only isn't sustainable, it's bad for your health (both mentally and physically).

Trust me, we all struggle. I've been maintaining for nearly a year and I still struggle. It's a lifelong journey down a difficult path, but everyone here is willing and able to help.

Rikku-
Don't listen to them. I also struggled and every time I went close to eating the way I needed to for my body I was scared off by the "eat more / eat healthy" crew. Even though I knew it was wrong for me.

Finally after 20 wasted years I stopped listening, signed up for a medically supervised -- low calorie - plan and lost all the weight -- finally.

To this day, if I post that here I will get all kinds of scare tactics that are not true. People say "oh you lost heart muscle" um, no, sorry, had that checked. I mean how disrespectful (or in denial) to say something like that to someone who paid for a medical plan? I mean I actually paid to ensure nothing was wrong with my body and now have proof that nothing went wrong and STILL people post that something must be wrong with my body.
People will say eating X way is not good for you, even when I present them with the facts that my blood tests never moved. (except for improvements)

I wasted 20 years listening to armchair experts online. Thank god I finally stopped listening -- and although I am sure this post won't go over well - I hope people at least see the alternate view.

...I am a (daily) lurker on this site and I check out many threads and groups and it seems that 99% of the threads are people who are either trying to lose or maintain their weight and are supporting each other by providing each other advice gained through their personal experience, much like in this thread. I decided to pipe up because I have a tremendous amount of respect for these ladies who have given you some solid advice. They are not judging you or disrespecting you. Far from. Like sontaikle says they care: they care enough to take the time to share with you.

A good book on IF is Stop-Eat-Stop. I can appreciate that right now you're doing everything you can to drop as quickly as you can. You may be getting great results now (by the way how long have you been at this?), however in the long term, your body will fight back, and yes, it can very well mean through bingeing. ....**** I don't fast more than 16-18 hours maybe once a week and restrict calories by 3 - 400 cals/day and I have periodic 'mini binges'. I've been maintaining within 5lbs for 2 years and go for periods where I'm trying to diet down to lose the last ten pounds and because of how hard I train my body has a hard time dealing with any kind of deficit it seems (that I love food too much!!).

In any case...stick around. These ladies know what it takes to be successful. Not just for now, but for the long-term. You need to keep in mind that you need to find a way to lose weight that you can do forever, because maintenance is not much different that weight loss. ****, it can be even more challenging. So think LIFE LONG and think healthy.