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-   -   Intermittent Fasting (https://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/general-diet-plans-questions/210969-intermittent-fasting.html)

thistoo 04-04-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desiderata (Post 4280253)
How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals?

I'd say the biggest difference is that people who follow IF aren't 'starving' themselves. They're creating a calorie deficit, which is exactly what calorie counters and low carbers and everyone else here does, but it's a healthy calorie deficit.

I do two 24-hour fasts a week. I stop eating from dinner on Monday to dinner on Tuesday, and then I break my fast with a good dinner and usually a snack which comes to between 600 and 700 calories. Non-fast days I usually eat 1400-1600 calories. That means my daily average calorie intake is 1200 calories. I think anyone can agree that that's a healthy weight loss range for someone who's five feet tall.

I don't think skipping meals necessarily equates to 'disordered eating'. Your body doesn't care *when* you eat the calories. If you mean anorexics who skip meals specifically to keep their calories at an unhealthy level, I don't think it's the same at all.

ennay 04-04-2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desiderata (Post 4280253)
I've read research about the benefits of IF and pretty much practice it these days without really meaning trying... but here's one thing I keep wondering about:

How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals? I get that the intent is very different, but in practice, it just keeps striking me that IF is a sanitized, repackaged, and now-sanctioned version of a very old, common dieting behavior.

I realize that sounds kind of negative. Again, I'm aware of the research on how fasting promotes autophagy and other goodness, and I'm not averse to it. But maybe someone can help enlighten me -- isn't this an example of everything old is new again?

Well...for starters, unless you are talking starvation diets, part of the premise is that "skipping meals" is not automatically "unhealthy or disordered". The diet industry has jumped on the 5 meal bandwagon - doesnt necessarily mean it is better.

The problem on some of the old diets would be that fasting would go on for prolonged periods, not intermittently. My MIL grew up with the notion that dieting equalled "dont eat anything for as long as you can" and then when you do eat limit it to celery. That isnt what IF is. It is not a starvation diet.

For me - and this varies depending on what style of IF you do, it is just backing away from the current trend of "6 small meals" and reallocating those calories into 2 meals per day. I am so much happier eating 2 700-900 calorie meals than tiny meals.

For others they may still snack, just in a smaller window. Or in the E-S-E version they may have a few lower calorie days a week bracketed by normal or above calories. - basically calorie cycling except again, avoiding trying to divvy up the lowest calorie days into 5-6 segments.

I can see how it is not for everyone..but for me, I used to look at people who did calorie counting at 1200-1400 calories a day and just shake my head. I can NOT do that on the 5-6 meal a day plan. 150-200 calories for me is appetite STIMULATING not "preventing me from getting too hungry". Even 300-400 can often just trigger more hunger, not satisfaction. (and yes, I've tried every combo of carb/fat/protein)

The kicker for me is blood sugar control. I am pre-diabetic/insulin resistant and fell into the "eat frequently to help control blood sugar" trap. But when I would test my blood sugar what I found with frequent meals is I never got low. I often did not come anywhere close to a healthy "pre-meal" range I was just continually elevating my blood sugar. From 7 am to at least 3 hours after my last meal I was carrying around damagingly high blood sugar. On most days this means about 15 hours of damage

Now I DO get slightly larger spikes....but not as much larger as one would expect given a larger meal, but I spend much longer portions of my day in a healthy range AND I am training my body to not see 110-120 as "starvation starvation send in more sugar!!!!!" which is where I usually would be before meals on an eat frequently plan - or sometimes higher. Now, I have elevated blood sugar for about 2 hours after each of my 2 meals. Maybe 4-5 hours a day of elevated numbers, and MUCH less sensitivity to the composition of my meal. Fruit is no longer a death spiral waiting to happen.

Ija 04-04-2012 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ennay (Post 4280355)
For me - and this varies depending on what style of IF you do, it is just backing away from the current trend of "6 small meals" and reallocating those calories into 2 meals per day. I am so much happier eating 2 700-900 calorie meals than tiny meals.

This goes for me too --I like eating real, substantial meals, not 200-300 calorie snacks. I do the 16/8 method (I eat 3 meals between 1pm and 9pm, and that's it). I don't miss breakfast, and am not hungry in the morning. Although I'm not trying to lose weight, IF has helped tremendously with maintenance because I no longer obsess about food all the time, and I don't have to spend much time or energy planning a million small meals each day. Plus, when I eat, I get to really EAT... I cap off my night with a nice full meal (dinner is usually 1000 calories or so), and go to bed happy.

IF for life! :)

ValRock 04-04-2012 02:02 PM

For me, it's different, because I'm still eating a healthy number of calories. But instead of riding the blood sugar roller coaster all day, mine spikes while I'm asleep!

Beach Patrol 04-04-2012 02:16 PM

I do IF on weekends & any days off work (holidays, vacation, etc). Without all the blahblahblah, yaddayaddayadda of it all, it's basically a way to control caloric intake by portion control - because if you are fasting, even for just a specific amount of time, you are limiting "how much you eat."

I say "whatever works for you is the right thing to do" :D

krampus 04-04-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desiderata (Post 4280253)
How is IF different, in practice, from unhealthy disordered eating habits of skipping meals? I get that the intent is very different, but in practice, it just keeps striking me that IF is a sanitized, repackaged, and now-sanctioned version of a very old, common dieting behavior.

It's different because ideally IF = eating a normal amount of daily calories within your eating window - as opposed to eating, say, 1800 calories spread out over 3 meals and 3 snacks, you can eat 1800 calories in 2 bigger meals or 1800 calories in one huge meal.

JohnP 04-04-2012 02:31 PM

I would argue that skipping meals does not mean one has an eating disorder. You can have an eating disorder and eat 5x a day.

If you have an eating disorder, you have one. Skipping meals may or may not be a part of one's eating disorder.

Arctic Mama 04-04-2012 02:32 PM

Good explanations, everyone! I wish we could sticky some of these.

Sum38 04-04-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistoo (Post 4280257)
I'd say the biggest difference is that people who follow IF aren't 'starving' themselves. They're creating a calorie deficit, which is exactly what calorie counters and low carbers and everyone else here does, but it's a healthy calorie deficit.

I do two 24-hour fasts a week. I stop eating from dinner on Monday to dinner on Tuesday, and then I break my fast with a good dinner and usually a snack which comes to between 600 and 700 calories. Non-fast days I usually eat 1400-1600 calories. That means my daily average calorie intake is 1200 calories. I think anyone can agree that that's a healthy weight loss range for someone who's five feet tall.

I don't think skipping meals necessarily equates to 'disordered eating'. Your body doesn't care *when* you eat the calories. If you mean anorexics who skip meals specifically to keep their calories at an unhealthy level, I don't think it's the same at all.

Ditto :) i still eat 1200-1500 cal per day.

freelancemomma 04-04-2012 03:37 PM

I also dislike tiny portions, but IF wouldn't work for me because I get too hungry. My solution is to have one 500-to-600-calorie item per meal, rather than nibbles of several items. So for breakfast I'd rather have two bowls of cereal than one small bowl of cereal, a little yoghurt, a little fruit, some nuts, etc. For lunch I often have two small tortilla pizzas or a large pita bread with homemade dip, and for dinner I may have a huge bowl of stirfry or a bowl of fresh pasta with sauce. The nutrients don't always work out favourably on a given day, but over a week's time I think I get all the nutrients I need.

Freelance

banananutmuffin 04-04-2012 03:47 PM

IFing was the only way I managed to break through a plateau, and it's resulted in the biggest lose for me.

I am not regimented about it, though, because my social meal schedule varies each day.

About once a week I do a 20-24 hour fast. The other days, I may fast 14-18 hours, or I may not fast at all. I do typically skip breakfast, but often my dinner isn't until midnight, so I'm not exactly stretching into a long fast on those days.

I agree that having your eating under control first can be helpful.

IFing was hard initially, as I was under the habit of eating 4-5 times a day. I did get hungry. Eating a mostly paleo/primal diet has helped with that, as the protein and fat is satiating.

I also listen to my body. If I planned a fast that day, but my stomach is rumbling and I feel weak/lightheaded, then I will eat. Some days we just need more fuel for whatever reason, and I try to clue into what my body needs.

That said, IFing is simply a way for me to control my caloric intake. My "meals" when I ate 4-5 per day were simply way to large and didn't create a calorie deficit large enough to lead to weight loss. By IFing, I create that deficit.

A typical day for me would be to skip breakfast and lunch, then have a snack to break my fast. A little while later I'll have a dinner of meat/veggies, and possibly even a small snack before bed, depending on the time I eat dinner.

LockItUp 04-04-2012 04:01 PM

My husband has been doing IF forever, he's tried to explain it to me, but I understand it better now. You people speak my language! Maybe I will try it, because I'll tell ya, after 2 weeks now of 1200-1550 calories, my little meals are starting to seem so sad and small, whereas before they seemed fine. Probably because I'm working out quite a bit, my appitite seems to be increasing as the days pass. It'd be nice to eat like a really HUGE meal. I think I'll try this out and see how it works for me.

Sum38 04-04-2012 04:09 PM

LockItUp That was me! First of all; I have always hated bfast. ALWAYS! I ate it because I was told it was the right way to eat. -- Now I feel like I am freed and I can eat the way I want to eat. I love it. So I usually eat my first meal around 12 noon or 1 pm. AND I love big meals. So I usually pack 800 calories worth dinner stuff on.

Granted I am new on IF, but so far I have not gained any wight...yay me.... I feel amazing, and I am happy that I can eat the way it suits me.

Desiderata 04-05-2012 11:32 AM

Thanks, everyone, for explaining! I've been thinking about this since posting and I guess I'm struck that this is one of those deeply-engrained thought patterns for me. In my mind, skipping meals to save up calories for a bigger meal later is often indicative of disordered eating - and my brain's having a hard time dislodging that thought, even as I objectively see that it's not necessarily true. Cognitive bias, ladies and gents!

Like I said before, I essentially practice IF these days anyway, more for the supposed health benefits than for the calorie restricting. But I appreciate hearing everyone's perspectives.

banananutmuffin 04-05-2012 11:37 AM

Well, there are people with disordered eating patterns who DO skip meals and/or binge, so I can understand why you see it this way.

Honestly, IFing gives me a feeling of control about what I eat and when I eat it. Is that disordered? Maybe. But I kind of feel like as long as I'm not doing anything unhealthy to my body (i.e. major restriction or purging), then I'm in safe territory.


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