I was thinking the same thing when I posted Lena - somtimes these things take on a life of their own! LOL.

Getting back to the topic. Isn't there a way to celebrate a child's birthday without having food? Can't the parents instead bring little bags of those cheap little toys you find with the party hats and stuff? Wouldn't that be more fun for the kids since those toys last alot longer than a cupcake does? Or how about the class taking out a few minutes to play a game like Heads Up 7Up or Graveyard or something fun. I know that was the best part of birthday parties when I was in elementary school. Celebrations don't need to be all about the food.

What is a common theme on this board? I read all the time about people being worried about gaining weight because of some special occasion coming up. It doesn't matter if it's a holiday, birthday, anniversary, vacation, etc. Most of those have food as a main part of the occasion. Shouldn't it be more about coming together and actually celebrating something other than food? Change your attitude about this, and the cupcake issue won't be a big deal anymore.

As for the allergy issue... I think we could use a lesson on being conciderate for other people. Isn't that what is important, how we treat other people? If we treat them like they don't matter, then they will get the message. If we treat them with respect and caring, then they will feel good about themselves. It's obviously a touchy subject, but I think we need to stop being so dependent on food and start being kind to each other.

I could not agree with this statement more. In fact, it is exactly why I would I would be a considerate enough person to find a better compromise than having a food banned if it were my child with the allergy. Personally, I don't think the issue is our dependency on food or our lack of respect for one another. Instead, I think boils down to people taking a stance on any matter as if it were a black and white issue when it clearly isn't. Allergies, cupcakes, or any other conflict always has a middle ground solution as long as people are willing to work together rather than just telling each other what to do. The fact that we don't always agree as to what that middle ground is doesn't mean any one of us lacks caring or consideration for other people, especially those who may have special needs.

I hope my posts in this thread haven't made me come across as a person who wouldn't care about someone else's child if it meant an inconvience to me or my child. That couldn't be further than the truth.

Well, what am I to do this fall? My son is going to kindergarten and there is a boy in his class (he's in preschool with him now) that has a peanut allergy. We all avoid peanutty things and read labels like crazy for our snacks. BUT, my son has peanut butter and jelly for lunch EVERY DAY! He likes it and I give it to him...NSA peanut butter, SF blackberry jelly on WW bread. He just loves it. Other things he likes are spaghettios or other pasta, but that doesn't exactly pack well in lunch and they don't have a microwave in the lunchroom to heat it up and I've tried this in a thermos and it stinks to high heaven by the time lunch gets there.

So...

Is my son going to have to go without his favorite lunch food because of this boy with allergies? On the school menu, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are served every day...on white bread with sugary PB&J, so I'd make my son his own. BUT, is the whole school going to have to go without PB&J because of one boy? I, for one, would think that it would make the kid stand out more...I'm putting myself in the mother's shoes and think that I'd feel bad and talk to the school leadership about what my kid could do to not make the whole entire school change for my one kid. Know what I mean? Maybe he could eat with the teachers in the teacher's lounge? Make him feel special, not so much singled out. The kids would just accept that, but I would think that the other kids would be more resentful and look at him as the kid that banned peanut butter from school. I'm really thinking of how I would feel if that were my kid and not only would I be worried he'd be black listed, but I'd be so panick stricken that he'd come across a peanut thing that I think I'd have to home school him. I'm serious. I'm not saying that all kids with allergies should be home schooled, but I'd not want to take a chance. Or I'd come to school and eat lunch with him in the teacher's lounge...but I'd definitely take it as MY responsibility to be sure my kid is safe at school...not all the other moms'...I'd not want to put that responsibility on everyone else and...what of the mom or kid that DID expose the kid with the peanut allergy by accident...how are they supposed to feel? Let me tell ya...bringing in a peanut-free snack this year has been a real challenge. It's REALLY easy to miss on some things. One day I brought in apple slices and some sugar cookies in a bag. Well, the sugar cookies, I found out after I got them there, are exposed to peanuts! Chex mix...peanuts! About the only thing that was safe was fresh fruit (which I LOVE bringing in) and dairy products like Go-gurt and goldfish and pretzels. I don't know, but it's my opinion that a kid with an allergy like that IS different and DOES have a problem...trying to make him blend in like that is almost minimizing the severity of his problem. Having him stand out a bit and saying, "Okay...Johnny has to sit at this table...or the teacher's lounge...or is having lunch with mommy everyday...because he has an allergy to peanuts and its very serious...so he has to eat lunch differently than everyone else." Big deal, but no big deal, just the same. It would be a daily reminder that this Johnny has this allergy and that it serious and potentially deadly. I mean, we're not talking rash here...we're talking suffocation!! It SHOULD stand out and it SHOULD be reminded of every day when Johnny sits at his own table (or whatever precautions are taken) that he has this allergy. I don't think he'd be singled out this way, but people would learn to be more contientious of it instead of being made to forget about it...because that's when some peanut butter cookies are going to be brought in and everyone's going to forget, including Johnny, who's been made to feel like he's totally normal.

Anyhow...my take on the original topic...cupcakes and school food. I HATE school food. I think it's horrendous what they slop together and call lunch. NO veggies, NO fruit unless it's disgustingly sugared down, LOADS of whites (flour and potatoes)...I used to let my daughter buy lunch every day when she was in first grade because she was very shy and I thought this was a nice way for her to break through a few shy things like having to talk to the cashier about money and to have to make a choice of what food she wanted...a little independence...but about half way through second grade, I started really taking notice of what food they dole out and started making her lunch every day. Today she took in Triscuits and cheese, strawberries and baby carrots with ranch dressing for dipping and a flavored water. Once in a while I let her buy, but I 99% make her lunch for her. Somedays she has a cheese sandwich with lettuce and mayo on WW bread and a banana or grapes..maybe a go-gurt or NSA applesauce or cottage cheese. You should see the pizza they sell...I swear the crust is a giant old sponge that was used to wash the dishes....totally disgusting. I mean, what's wrong iwth a little whole wheat here? Or fresh fruit? The milk is okay, but the first 1/2 pints to go are the strawberry and chocolate. Might as well give them all milkshakes!!

Okay...so I'll be out in the backyard, tied to a pole with my blindfold on so everyone that thinks I'm a jerk about the peanut allergy can shoot me. I've just been dealing with this first-hand with poor little McCade in my son's preschool and I"m really scared for him that he's going to come across something.

OH...and while I'm tied to the post waiting to be shot...just had to add that I think that once they get rid of all the soda machines and candy and fix the lunch food problem...that cupcakes for a treat would be WONDERFUL. I mean, I remember bringing in cupcakes for birthdays and I was so proud that it was MY day and I had cupcakes made my MY MOM and I was, like, the star for the day because I brought in cupcakes. I would hate to have that banned from the kids. BUt I understand, too...with the crapfest they serve for lunch and the fast-food mentality that only processed food is good on the run, cupcakes for birthdays seems to be adding salt to a gaping wound. In other words...I feel that the food served/sold at school is a much larger problem than the treats the kids bring in on their special day...or for Christmas or Halloween. All things are good in moderation, but with the junkfood for sale, it's not moderation, but adding to Mt. Crapola...ohterwise known as cafeteria food. JMHO...still waiting for the firing squad in my backyard...

I can see that spiraling WAY out of control, finance wise. A batch of cupcakes for 30 kids costs can be made cheaply, at home, for way less than $10.00, using cake mixes. Baking from scratch costs even less, probably less than $5.00 for the whole class. Granted, there may be parents that buy the cupcakes and pay more, but for the kids, the homemade and store-bought cupcakes are considered about the same, in my experience. Cupcakes are considered "the norm" for birthdays, so it minimizes some amount of the parental competitiveness.

I can just picture how different it would be if parents were bringing in treat bags for the kids. First of all, even if you filled the bags with a sticker and a superball, and the bag is 10 cents, the stickers are 5 cents each, and the superball is 20 cents, each bag is going to cost 35 cents to make, which puts you at a cost for 30 students of 10.50, already more than you would have spent on the cupcakes...and that is for a sticker and a superball. Now picture the kid whose parents don't have much money, whose birthday is being celebrated on the same day or same week as a child with a lot more money, whose bag has five stickers, two superballs, a pencil, and 3 of those little parachute men...it would reveal class differences MUCH more than two batches of cupcakes, even if the higher-income kid's family bought the cupcakes and they were a little bit prettier or better tasting.

I'm just thinking back to elementary school birthday parties, where what was in your gift bag was THE thing people talked about, and I remember kids getting openly mocked for having "cheap" bags. I never once remember anyone getting made fun of for having cheap cupcakes. So if we were going to move to some kind of system to celebrate that wasn't basically equal for everyone, we'd have to do it in a way that didn't result in kids getting made fun of because their parents didn't have as much money. I suppose a spending limit per bag would work, but honestly, so many parents cheat those, and its not like teachers are going to ask for the receipt.

When I interned in a 3rd grade classroom two years ago as a graduation requirement, it amazed me how much the students were aware of who was "poor", and how being classified that way was SO devastating for the kids.

On the topic of the debate, I think the answer lies more in eliminating junk from school-sponsored events, rather than birthday celebrations. I mean, its a lot easier for a school to mandate that a teacher not pass out candy, and that schools have movie days or other non-food or healthy food rewards for holidays, than to regulate what parents do and/or how they celebrate a kids special day. For our holiday or reward days in school, we always got to pick a movie and the teacher made airpopped popcorn for everyone, served in little popcorn bags. Sure we had the holiday parties with lots of bad food choices, but my teachers always provided good food choices too...veggies with dips, fruit salads, juice/water, etc. It was up to US to make the good food choices (and I KNOW that it is possible at home to teach your kids good food choices...look at the SO MANY parents on this board whose children turn down sweet goods because they've "had too much sugar today" or who crave veggies because their parents are demonstrating good habits). So I think a better solution would be to ensure that the cupcakes are really TREATS, rather than the norm, and still allow birthday celebrations to include them.

Of course, my viewpoint would require that schools actually take action on the foods available in their lunchrooms, making it healthier, so our kids aren't surrounded by junk - but I feel that THAT change would have much more of an impact on child health than removing the cupcakes that come 2 times a month...

On the allergy issue, my future father in law is deathly allergic to tropical fruit. He can't even be near it without having a severe allergic reaction. Should we ban pineapple and mango from his workplace? He'd had the allergy since he was a kid, and he has learned to be VERY vigilant about it, from a VERY young age...and of course he carries an epi-pen EVERYWHERE. I personally am really negatively affected by aspartame...it makes me basically violently ill for hours after I have even a sip of a diet soda, which made restaurants particularly risky back when I still drank soda, as there was the constant fear that the cups got mixed up or what have you. But if I was out to dinner with friends, and I planned to order a coke, I wouldn't expect all of them to not order diet coke in case there was a mixup...I'd just ask the waitress (or in the classroom case, the other students) to be particularly vigilant about not exposing me.

I agree that its one thing to ask for alternate snacks on a flight due to a severe allergy than to ask a class to not pack any peanut products for an entire year. One is a one-time thing that will affect those people for the length of the flight, the other is a 9-month committment. And heaven help the mother whose 5 year old goes into a "I won't eat anything but pbjs" phase...

Also on the "Severe Allergy" thing for one kid.

There is a condition known as "Congenital Insensitivity to Pain". Its very rare. These kids can't play outside like other kids, or do PE, because they literally don't feel any pain and can easily have life threatening injuries without knowing. Its very scary.

I watched a special where one of these brave kids was being filmed at her school. YES she was separated, for her own safety. She also had to be checked by the nurse for injuries a couple times a day. She felt different. But she still had friends. She wasn't an outcast. And EVERYONE knew that you had to be gentler playing with her than you would with others, because she had a special medical condition. The teachers knew it, the students knew it, and she knew it. But they didn't put padding over the surface of the entire school so it wouldn't hurt her if she fell down.

I think everyone is really overreacting to how all of the children feel about "no peanut butter" at school. My daughter, for one, who likes peanut butter a lot, could care less. I think that the inconvenienced parents in most cases have much more issues with it than the children. When it was announced at her school-DD got into the car and mentioned it to me, handed me the paper about it-and that was that. The children are all getting along with each other, and this child just fine at my daughter's school no problem.

This kid isn't made fun of, or labeled as "the kid who got PB banned from school"...but if he had to sit and eat with the teachers in the lounge every day-you better bet he would have more problems fitting in then.

Lunch time for children in elementary school is one of their two main socializing times-that and recess. For a brand new kid in school, for instance, they can get through class time no problem-but recess and lunch is what is upsetting to them if they "don't have any friends" to sit with, or play with. Taking them out of the lunch room and isolating them would cause them much more problems socially-and single them out more than the food ban.

I am only speaking purely from experience here-since our school actually has a food ban because of a child with an extreme allergy. For those who do not or have not experienced a ban in your school, it really isn't as bad as it is being made out to be. It really isn't.

I don't think my point, personally, was whether it bothered the kids, but whether it was necessary or even for the better good of the class/school. I don't know that it is, but defer to you with the experience that it isn't an inconvenience to your own children, or probably most children. Does that mean its a good idea? I'm not sure...and I don't know if there is any way to BE sure on the topic-everyone has a different opinion.

i'm also an arguer by nature, so someone cyber-smack me if I get snippy :-)

There are also liability issues as far as the school is concerned. If they don't ban certain items and a child has an allergic reaction and the parents can prove that the school administration knew about their child's allergy and that they had asked them to issue a ban then the school administration/board may be held liable.

If you knew about the ban and still sent your child to school with the banned item and something happened then you may be facing a law suit from the affected child's parents. I can't imagine what it would be like to know you caused someone's illness or death because you didn't like the school's rules.

About the cupcakes - perhaps it is part of the fight against childhood obesity, a fear of an allergic reaction, liability or just inconvenient for the faculty to have multiple cake/party days and the interruption of class time for these things . . .

When I was a kid we didn't bring anything like that to school for our birthdays. You parents threw you a birthday party on the weekend. We also only gave out valentine cards - no candy. You got to wear your costume for Halloween but we didn't have a party and we a Christmas assembly for the whole school not a class party- plays were put on and the school choir sang - that's about it. I feel so deprived now!

Ditto!

Although the issue at hand is cupcakes and peanuts, that isn't really the basis of my argument. Aphil is right - I have not experienced a peanut ban so I am not directly impacted. I am, however, impacted by the general trend of catering to individuals who have a particular problem that isn't common amongst the masses. There have been instances similar to the peanut ban in my son's school. So, like it or not, I have the right to an opinion as to whether or not such things are an issue for me and my family.

I am rather surprise that there is even a town in America that celebrate children birthdays in school. In my back of the woods only kinder gardeners celebrated all 25 kids birthday in class. By the time I got into elementary birthday parties were not celebrated in class it is to many kids per class room to be celebrating birthdays and the most you got in class was a birthday song sung to you. Your celebrations was at home or having a weekend slumber party. Kids were aloud to pass out invitations to their weekend birthday / slumber party during lunch time.

I can't say I have anything against cupcakes. In my days we always had Friday Cupcake sales raising money for something, never knew or understand what but it was mandatory that by Friday the children bring cupcakes made from home or bought from the store or $2.00 for the cupcake sale. I guess $2.00 bought 6-12 cupcakes at the store back then. I don't even know if they do that anymore.

I think the whole birthday things should be held at home instead of schools.
That would cut down the extra calorie in eating a whole lot of cup cakes in schools.

I however would not ban them from Christmas party oops I mean Winter Celebration ( we can't call it Christmas here anymore) or to have cupcakes for any other holiday ( if we have any of them to celebrate that is left in school anymore)

Touche, Lena.

Brandi, we should.. I wish we could and would!

Even of those that are allergic to notes though, there will be even fewer that are so extremely allergic as to not be able to even be in the same room with nuts (not talking about the class clown ). But I still do not see how they can't break lunch up into two groups. There is always more than one class eating lunch, so why not have those with nuts go across the hall to "Mrs. Smith's" class, and those allergic, over to "Mrs. Jone's" class during the eating period.

I was telling my husband about this discussion BTW, and he brought up his "addiction"...smoking. I used to but gave it up for lent. Nahhh, I just gave it up cause it wasn't good for me, and it was getting too expensive. But he is permitted to carry cigarettes onto the plane. He's just not allowed to smoke them. He could "eat" them...if he wanted. But smoking them puts their fumes out into the plane. Besides, they're bad for a "majority" of people...ie: everyone. But what we're talking about here is telling people they can't even carry a bag of nuts on in their luggage, or take a bag in on their carry-on to eat themselves on the plane.

If I had a severely allergic child and the passenger next to me brought in their own nuts, I'd explain the situation. If they didn't want to be compassionate and not eat them til they got off the plane, I'd ask the stewardess to move us to another seat and explain the reasoning. They would accomodate us. I would not ask that they ban nuts for everyone in the future because of one guy who refused to hold off on his snack of choice.

Just celebrated my birthday yesterday. It was spent with birthday cards and spending time with my parents and grandparents...grandma and I share a birthday. Oh, and my daughter and her husband mowed their yard for her as a present. I think it's the first time my family didn't celebrate something without food. They're constantly looking for reasons to run out and eat. I think because my parents were sick, it kinda put a damper on eating out this time though.

Exactly how I feel. I wouldn't mind asking that the SCHOOL strike such foods from THEIR menu, such as having the airlines strike it from theirs. But I'm not comfortable with telling everyone who attends that school that they have to strike it from their lunch menu as well, read all labels before they bring anything in that might contain nuts, just so they don't mistakenly bring something they weren't aware of having nuts in it. It's just going overboard IMO.

Couldn't agree more. To try and get everyone around to conform means that little Johnny is going to be in for a rude awakening when he gets out into the real world and there is no ban in his office, on the subway, in the cafe down the street....

But that's your child. Someone else's may react differently, and then their parent is going to have a difficult bout on their hands explaining why they can't have a PB&J sandwich for lunch. It also opens so much up. Like was mentioned about the guy with the tropical fruit allergy, or the girl who got hurt falling down and not knowing she was hurt. Where does it end? When does the banning stop? There are people acting negatively towards just this banning now...whether it be the students or the parents. They're not "just fine" with it. It is the parents who may find the PB&J the easiest to store, prepare and pack. And that may be what's upsetting to some. But when the kid enters the school with the tropical fruit allergy, do they start this all over again? Eventually we'll all be eating powdered meals made from all organic known non-allergy producing foods thoroughly processed and cleansed of any and all bad particles.....ick.

And this is just one school. How many follow. When does it start becoming a bad idea? How many do have to have a problem with it before that happens?

This is where this become impossible. Now they'd be asking that all parents take the time to copiously study all ingredients on everything they send their child to school with for fear of being sued because someone else's child had a problem. And yet that sick child's family was aware of this problem and they did not coach their child well enough to be sure that they didn't take a bite out of this other child's food, or get near to the other child's lunch they brought from home knowing that they had no clue what it contained and that if it contained something they were severely allergic too, they could have a reaction.