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Well, we just had a very BAD experience at the ASPCA in nyc. After reading some wonderful reviews online we headed out to meet some cats there and get some information about adoption. Our purpose was not to walk away with a cat but at least walk away with some information and get our 4yr old in a room with a cat (he's been fearful of all animals and we want to gently introduce him to the idea.)
So we went at the height of optimism, and were greeted very warmly by the staff there. I filled out all the paper work necessary and my son was very enthusiastic about meeting the cats. We were paired with a lady there who went over our paperwork and spoke with us about the process etc. We mentioned our needs and wants and asked questions about owning a cat. Everything was fine and good and then they led us into a room with a few cats. I watched for my son's reaction. He was smiling but was also apprehensive. One cat (let's call her Mitsy), approached us right away. There were other cats in the room, curious but uninvolved. She was climbing on me and was trying to climb on my son, and he was terrified. He didn't cry or scream or anything but he was trying to get away and hide behind me. Immediately this lady said "he's not ready." I tried to calm him and together we fed the cats. As the other cats approached Mitsy snarled at them. Mitsy continued to pursue my son and he continued to be frightened, he just wasn't ready for that level of interaction yet. Then Mitsy climbed high on cat walk and jumped on my shoulder from above. Then as we were leaving she was nipping at my son's ankles. The lady told me they would absolutely not let us adopt a cat because my son is not ready for one. She even asked "why do you even want a cat if he's so scared of them?" The whole ordeal p**** me off. We went all the way into the city, paid $12 in tolls and $15 in parking for this experience. After filling out all their forms and waiting around for 20 minutes we ended up spending 5 minutes with cats. The lady kept scolding my son because he wasn't whispering (trust me, he wasn't loud, he just speaks in the natural volume of a 4yr old) and she kept telling him to shush. Even while the cat was being aggressive with him. I don't need someone questioning me WHY I even want a cat if I have a kid who's afraid of them. The thing is that even though he's afraid he's also open to it. He wanted to feed them, he wanted to go in there, he wanted to look at more cats but she more or less threw us out. It almost seemed like she set us up on purpose with a highly aggressive cat. It was kind of humiliating to be rejected like that and I cried after we left. I felt poorly treated and my son even more so. What a waste of a perfectly good Saturday. |
To be honest, I understand the shelter's response.
Remember, their objective is to find forever homes for their animals. Placing an animal into a home with inexperienced animal owners, with a young, frightened child, is a recipe for disaster. The last thing they want is an animal returned to them petrified (or worse) due to an incident that happens in your care. Envisioning your child reacting out of fear and kicking the cat, is not hard to imagine. Plus, based on your description above, it doesn't sound the cat was "aggressive." Your child's behavior seems like it scared the cat into being defensive. You say that you "mentioned" your needs; I bet the woman you dealt with didn't understand the level of your child's fear. Bottom line is that they are not in the business of providing training animals to help your child get over his fear. I agree with her...wait until your son is a little older. It may be less stressful for all of you. I'm sorry you felt the money and time you invested was not worth the experience, but I think you may have learned more than you realize. Originally Posted by Palestrina: |
Oh dear. Hon, I know this was upsetting, but it's a mercy it happened now, rather than bringing a cat home and everything going horribly wrong. That wasn't an aggressive cat. That was a very friendly cat (and bear in mind how stressful the shelter environment is for cats - our cat was called "Hissy" in the shelter, she was so scared, and she's a total darling who cuddles with most of our guests) who got frightened and reacted in the natural way that cats do when they're under threat. Unfortunately, people who are scared of cats tend to do all the wrong things, thus upsetting the cat, who reacts defensively, which scares the human further, and it all snowballs. You got a good example today of just how fast it can snowball. In particular, if you avoid looking at a cat, it considers that to be good manners, which is why cats have an unnerving tendency to go straight for the human who is scared of the cat and trying to ignore it. If you move tentatively, the cat sees that as the movement of a prey animal and is likely to attack, especially if you hover a hand jerkily over their head, which they find particularly threatening and which so many people seem to think is a good type of approach. Sudden movements and loud noises will scare cats.
Our cat is lovely with almost all humans, but a friend of my partner's is terrified of cats and always seems to end up with our cat having a go at her when she is visiting. So when I finally met this friend, I walked her through how to behave with cats, explaining why the wobbly hand hovering over the cat's head was the last thing to do. She changed her posture, held out her hand confidently and low, and the cat, who had been looking nervous and gearing herself up to defend herself, promptly went back to being her usual sweet self, rubbing herself gently against the hand to say hello. The friend was delighted! It was hard to do that with an adult, you wouldn't have had a hope of teaching a young child. If it's hard for adults to get behaving-around-cats right, it's far harder for young children. You should have left the room with him as soon as the shelter worker said he wasn't ready. I realise you were hoping the situation would improve, but if a cat experiences something as frightening as a child who is behaving in all the wrong ways and distressing it, you can't just solve the situation in twenty seconds by getting the child to be quieter. Their body language will continue to be all wrong, especially if they're being too loud for the cat to take. Yes, that might be normal volume for a four year old, but that doesn't mean it's an acceptable volume for a cat. I managed to startle my cat into arching her back today, simply because after she'd been begging for food I looked at her dish and squeaked in surprise, "You haven't even eaten your lunch!" And she knows me well and absolutely adores me. I just spoke a bit too loudly, frightened her, and since I know her and her little ways, I promptly apologised (life with a cat means a lot of being bossed around and a lot of grovelling!), gave her a cuddle, and all was forgiven. But even though I am her favourite human and we have extended cuddles every day, she can still change her mood with the usual speed of a cat, and give me a very gentle nip to tell me to stop petting her when she no longer wants it. If I were to ignore her "back off" signal (and the signals can be very subtle, a change in the set of the ears or different tail movements), I'd get a swipe, and I have had plenty of little scratches where I reacted a second too late. Again, that's normal cat behaviour, but it's the sort of thing that can backfire nastily with a child. I'm afraid the shelter worker was quite right to ask why you brought your son if he's so scared of cats. Unfortunately, it's not a problem you can treat by just introducing him to cats and hoping he'll understand how lovely they are. Optimism doesn't work for this one. He's far too young, and his natural behaviour isn't anywhere near what would make a cat comfortable. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him, he's being a normal four year old, it simply means that he's a child who isn't up to having a cat yet. Give him a year or so, perhaps, see how he is with other animals, and once he is no longer scared, introduce him to a friend's cat and teach him how to behave around cats. Once he has really learned how it works, and his relationship with a friend's cat is solid, try again. And possibly with dogs, who are easier to understand than cats. But please do not even dream of getting a cat now. The shelter really didn't do anything wrong. What you report is the actions of a good shelter, and I've have been horrified if they'd sent you home with a cat. It's their duty to protect the cats they have there, and if a child is upsetting the cats, of course they need to stop the situation, for everyone's sake! They also need to make sure the cat will go to a good home where everyone would be happy. As far as I know, that always involves asking the potential owner why they want a cat, whether the shelter worker has flagged up potential problems or not. They want to know if you have a garden, if the cat will be left alone all day, if the cat will be played with properly, if you are going to make sure it gets all the vet treatment it needs, give it the right sort of food, do a good job with the litterbox, to figure out if you are planning to breed from it (if it's not already neutered), they need to know all sorts of things. And if they have a child who is upsetting the cats, and they say to the adult "he's not ready", and the adult insists on keeping the child around the now-terrified cats, well, of course they asked you to leave. He was upsetting the cats and could have been badly bitten or scratched if they hadn't intervened. They were protecting him and you, you know. I realise it was a horrible experience for both of you, and I am sending you hugs. Sometimes these things do just go wrong. |
I don't think we did anything wrong. We went with the intention of meeting a cat. My son didn't yell, he didn't cry or scream. Yes he was afraid but he was also interested. He wanted to feed the cat. He was asking questions. This was his first interaction with a cat. How will he have experience with a cat if we don't expose him to it? I was there and the cat was too aggressive. We didn't get a chance to interact with the other cats, just this one. They could have mediated, they could have had us meet just one cat or a different cat. They didn't have to kick us out.
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Originally Posted by Palestrina: For starters, think about how stressful it is for a cat to be in a shelter. It's probably equivalent to being suddenly put into a rough prison, and in many instances, straight after experiencing traumatic events too, or at the least, losing a loved one. It's a manageable level of stress if you understand cats, but it can make a huge difference if you don't. "My son didn't yell, he didn't cry or scream", you said. In context, that's a bit like saying, "Why are you threatened because I screamed at you and waved my fists in your face? I didn't have a weapon!" Screaming would have been absolutely horrific for a cat, and even talking loudly would have been upsetting. Look how I told you my cat responded earlier because I raised my voice very slightly. Cats like quiet. He was evidently making enough noise to upset the cat, and the shelter worker told you that repeatedly. I noticed that you were irritated by that, so I'm guessing that you didn't make your son lower his voice, and your feeling on edge won't have helped the atmosphere in the room (which the cat was carefully assessing). Of course he didn't mean anything by it. He's evidently a lively boy, and I'm sure he's a lovely kid. But children, by and large, are scary to cats. Young children are pretty noisy, bless them; I tend to find them draining, and I at least understand what's going on. I bet he was moving far too fast, for instance, and by that I mean far too fast according to a cat. As for meeting just one cat, maybe they didn't have a room available, or perhaps it was because they didn't realise how scared your son is, and thought that several cats at once would give you both a chance to meet several cats and see which one you got on with. The best thing to do in this situation is to move slowly and gently into the room, then sit on the floor, don't look at the cat, put a hand out on the floor, and apart from that, just sit and wait for them to come and investigate you. Some people hold out their glasses, so that the cat can sniff their scent from a safe distance away. If they feel safe - and if you are giving off any signals of fear, they will not feel safe - they will wander up, have a little sniff, think it over, and then perhaps rub themselves against you. Or sometimes they will back off again, and perhaps come back, perhaps not. You let them do that for a while, and then, depending on what you have been told about the cat, you may possibly try a confident but gentle pat or stroke, say on top of the head. Then you see how they react to that, for instance whether they purr or head-butt you, or even climb into your lap for a cuddle. And even that simple patting movement is easy to get wrong with a new cat! My friend S uses very different cat-petting techniques to me, because their cat J is still recovering from years of being bullied by her now-deceased brother, and J has to be wooed very carefully, with a strict and complex petting protocol, every single time S has a cuddle with her. With our cat, N, sometimes that is OK, and sometimes the movements are a bit too tentative and make her slightly nervous. N prefers more confident movements. But S is great at reading cat signals, and knows the second when to back off, so it's never gone wrong, and they've had quite a few little cuddles by now. Now, I can read N well enough that if I look at her and she's in the right mood, I can scoop her up (holding her correctly, of course) and ruffle the fur on her head and give her lots of kisses, and she nestles into me and gives happy little chirrups. I couldn't do that when I met her! If I ever meet S's cat, I am going to have to follow S's instructions very slowly and carefully, and I may not see her at all for the first few visits. You and your son don't know about cat signals. It was like meeting someone from another culture, where you don't know the language, and your guide book is instructing you to say, "I have a gun, and you'd better give me your money." Say that with a smile and they'll be even more freaked out, and you'll be peering at your guide book in bewilderment. You didn't have the right guide book for dealing with cats. You went by what should work with humans, possibly by what should work with dogs. It's a completely understandable mistake. As I said above, dogs are pretty intuitive to deal with, but cats just aren't, you have to learn their odd little ways. People who are used to dogs are often the worst offenders, for instance trying to rough-and-tumble with a cat (in a way that a labrador would adore) and getting scratched to bits for their pains. If a dog rolls on its back and wiggles its legs in the air, it probably wants a belly rub and will be very pleased to get it. If a cat does that, it's usually a defensive movement, where it's ready to attack. If you then break into its personal space and dare to touch its vulnerable belly, you may be permitted a couple of strokes and then you will probably find that you are being attacked. (Some cats are absolutely fine with this sort of belly rub, but they're in the minority, and it's never safe to assume that an unknown cat will like it.) I grew up with dogs, so I learned this the hard way when I met N! Now she will roll onto her back like that when we are playing, usually after we've been chasing each other around for a bit, and I get out the really big toy and she murders it happily for a minute, then dashes off to another designated killing spot and we repeat the whole process until I am out of breath. I don't let my hand get anywhere near her during these games, and I do not mistake them for cuddling sessions. Believe me, that was not an aggressive cat. No shelter worker would have introduced a nervous young child to anything other than a known friendly cat, because that is a very clear route to disaster for everyone, and they'd have to be a total sadist who didn't mind bleeding a lot and losing their job. The cat came towards you, she wanted to say hello (friendly!), and then she got startled and defensive. And only mildly defensive. This is what a terrified, angry cat does: The ears are flattened against the head. The pupils dilate. The tail is a dead giveaway, it may be lashing furiously, or flattened in terror against the floor, and/or with all its fur standing out like a bottle brush. The cat will back away as far as it can, watching intently. Or sometimes it will be frozen, and then pounce. There will be horrible noises: hissing, huffing, growling, yowling. When the cat attacks, it may leap into the air. There will be painful biting and scratching, perhaps terrified flailing. Typically, they grab hold of you with their front legs and bunny kick with their back claws. It is noisy, it is violent, it is extremely distressing for both the cat and the human. And it builds up with clear warning signs, although it may still escalate surprisingly quickly. If the human panics or tries to fight back, it gets a lot worse. There are awful stories of what can happen here, such as someone throwing the cat against a wall. These incidents don't appear out of nowhere, although if the human is clueless about cats and has been doing all the wrong things without realising it, it may seem like it. They have a clear build-up, perhaps starting with something like a cat with undiagnosed arthritis being touched in a way that hurts them a great deal. Cats aren't malicious. These things happen because of misunderstandings building up, and fear. Go back and read my other post explaining exactly what you did wrong and why the shelter worker pulled you out and didn't introduce you to other cats (that was her mediating). It was not the fault of the cat. It would have gone just as badly with another cat. It could have been a lot worse, in fact. Some shelter kitties have been through some very unpleasant stuff, and are pretty scared of humans and/or other cats. In those cases, shelters will arrange fostering when they can, and will be very careful about who adopts the cat, making sure it's someone with a high level of experience and the right kind of environment for the cat. And then go and relax somewhere and try not to think about cats while you let this settle down in your head! I know it's a disappointment, but he won't be four forever. And maybe you'll find another type of pet is simply a better fit for your family, and you will all be much happier. Or maybe he'll grow into it, and you'll all learn how to speak Cat. |
You didn't do anything wrong. Actually, after working in the vet industry for 10 years, you did ALL of the right things.:hug:
Shelters, rescues, foster homes, etc., do fill a need, and do help animals, and we do need them. I live in a small rural place, one lady involved with our local rescue is great, love her. We help her out, donate, she helps us out. The other lady, has taken money raised for the local shelter, and spent it on pets, from her home town, 2000 miles away. I know those pets need help, but she is telling one great big fib, to our local people. Problem arises, when, no matter how well intentioned, they are not educated, in animal behavior, and medical care, and the "truth" about owning a pet. Cats can be a bit more tricky than a dog, takes more patience. Cats are different. Don't give up, just take what you have learned so far, and be positive. It will work out. If anyone would like a spayed and declawed in the front, "white" kitty, with one green eye and one blue eye, laid back and calm, holler! She is hanging with me, looking for a forever home. I will keep her, but really needs a home with more time.:D |
Declawed? Oh, the poor thing. It's illegal in my country, and should be worldwide, as it's a horrendous practice involving amputating part of the toes and causing the animal enormous distress. It often causes health and behavioural problems as well. I know of people who deliberately adopt declawed kitties, not because they approave of that appalling practice, but because those cats need extra special care and they know they can provide for a potentially disabled cat. Is she also deaf on the side with the blue eye?
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Palestrina, I agree what has been said and that shelters are looking to protect their animals and they have a lot of experience with various types of adopters. They don't like to adopt out animals and then see them back in only a couple weeks. It lessens their chances of having a forever home and also moves them up the line to euthanasia quicker.
I would look at local rescues in your area and look at your petsmarts and petcos to see when they have adoption events. Our petsmart has a cat adoption event every week on Saturdays. |
Just to be clear, I'm not upset that we weren't handed a pet. I'm not upset she told us we weren't ready yet. I'm fully open to the process of learning the ropes and going about this the right way. I'm upset that it is suggested that we were out to do something wrong or to hurt anyone or that our reasons for wanting a pet are not acceptable. If our expectations were off that is no reflection of me as a person. Believe me when I tell you I was a lot more upset by this than anyone else, cat and son included. I won't be made to feel like I was a bad person. I may not talk cat yet but I'm fully versed in human and I know a jerk when I see one.
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I don't think you did anything wrong but it could also be that the people are especially jaded. I know humane societies use a lot of unpaid volunteers and these people often see stuff that you don't. Like when we went to go pick up our cat, a lady was returning a kitten that she didn't want. She had accidentally poked the cats eye out. Things like that happen all the time where people adopt pets with best of intentions but bring them back quickly, lessening their chances or even bring them back in worse shape. If you see that day in and day out, you may become jaded as well but the goal overall should be to adopt the pets out to those that are committed to them and will take care of them for the long haul.
Having said that, I will also say that the cat you encountered was fairly normal. I will say that cats are very invasive. I have one cat that will drink out of my water or my soy milk/soy yogurt if she can get the chance. Both cats like to follow me or my husband around. If I go into a room and shut the door, I will have meowing and paws under the door. When we had a shower curtain on our bath tub, one of my cats would sit on the lip of the bathtub while we took our shower, she still sometimes waits for us outside the shower. Some people have reported that their cats sleep on their head or their chest, my cats prefer the feet. Sometimes when sitting in a chair, we'll have the cats paws laying on our shoulders. When we didn't have 2 cats, our first cat would stalk us in that she would hide behind corners and then 'attack' which consisted of running up to us fast, grabbing our ankles, then running away. We also had a cat tree near the door (for a while) where she would 'attack' my hair every day when I got home from work. Once we got a second cat, they would play attack each other so that stopped. Cats are predators though so this play attack is pretty normal. We can't keep blinds closed as both cats will bat at them until we open up the blinds. Also, they will often meow at the windows to have us open up the windows. I love my cats, but I will say based on your sons reaction and the encounter with the cat, I do agree that it might not be a good fit for you at the moment. I would almost steer you towards a rabbit for a pet as I think that might be a better fit. |
Originally Posted by nelie: |
I also suggest going to a shelter.
If you get a kitten be ready to go through the fun that comes with that! A lot of scratching and getting into trouble. After about 2 years I feel like they calm down a little bit. Older cats are great too. I suggest a lot of scratching posts put around the house. I notice my catch only scratches the furniture when I move her posts when I vacuum and forget to put them back in their places. I have a tabby and she doesn't shed that much. It picks up a little before summer and before winter. If she lays on clothes they may get a little hairy but for the most part they are fine and so is the furniture. My parents have white cats that don't really have long hair but they shed like crazy. I am not sure what kind of cats they are. |
Originally Posted by nelie: I'm not deterred, it might take a while but we'll work things out and get a cat at some point even if it's not right now. My little boy is the most important thing to me, he may be a little nervous now but that does not mean that he does not deserve to have the opportunity to learn about cats and have a family pet. I have learned that cat people can be really really mean. |
Again, I think that may be why a rescue may be better for you than the ASPCA but sometimes people in the shelter can be funny or even some rescues. My concern, again for you and your son is that any cat may be a bit too curious for your son. I say this as I have a cat clawing and climbing on me right now. Cats are very willful and although they have a reputation for being solitary, they aren't really.
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Hey, Palestrina, I think your family did everything right! I also think the shelter did the right thing too. Sounds to me like the problem was just with that particular worker and how she communicated...
I mean you guys were willing, patient and had the right idea. She also got you out when it was needed and recognized bad signs. She knew her stuff. From what you described, that was not a very aggressive cat unfortunately :( but others already talked about this so I don't need to say anything else. How this woman communicated the information she had and the things she knew seemed the biggest problem. She should have said things like "Oh dear, maybe this is enough for a while but this is a great first start." Or "These are some good efforts, but try this instead...". She was treating you like a cat expert and getting mad at you for things you didn't know instead of having more sympathy. It could have been an off day for her and she's probably had lots of bad experiences, so I have sympathy for her. But I totally get what you mean. A comment like " Why did you even bring him here" in my opinion was unnecessary and rude. There were so many better ways to word that, even other suggestions she could have made to make it more positive. I also applaud the effort you have put into this. Adopting a cat from a shelter is not easy for you or the cats. But you are doing this the best way you know how!!! Don't give up if you want this, and take all the time your son needs. My little sister was the same with animals at first too... Now she loves them at six years old (even though she doesn't have a pet of her own). Your son was doing what all young kids do, the cat was doing what all cats do, and the worker could have said a good effort to both you and the cat instead of accusing you! You are already doing a better job than me by seeking out a shelter cat, something my husband and I won't be bale to do when we can get a pet. Due to his allergies, and the allergies of my entire family, we will have to get a very specific hypoallergenic cat from a breeder. A reputable breeder and not a kitten mill from a store, but a breeder never the less. We won't be helping the same way you are, so you have my applause. |
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