Your opinions on how you rank a place to live:neighborhood, schools, house/land size
I posted a little while back that DH and I are looking to move. But we are truly torn on where to go.
Currently we live in what I consider a big house. 3 bd, 1 1/2 bth, living room and family room. Our property is a little over 1/3 acre, which is big for our neighborhood. This neighborhood used to one of the safest in the country, literally. It was #1 oh about 7 years back. Do to some "things" I will not elaborate on for reason of not wanting to side track this topic, our town is declining at quite a disturbing pace. The schools, once known state wide at having one of the best programs for special needs children (about 10 years ago) have declined at an even faster pace, and we have experienced this first hand. Our home that we bought 3 years ago has lost value, and when we sell it, considering that we paid under its value at that time but that we also did a full kitchen renovation, we will be lucky to break even. I dread sending my oldest to school here. He goes with some unsavory clientele and while he is safe (I think) it is quite the 3 ring circus of folks we prefer not to have our son in school with. The kids in our adjacent neighborhood (which used to be mostly older folks that owned their homes for many years) wander the streets unattended, ride their bikes through traffic with no helmets or parents in site. These kids are young, some my son's age, wandering about. I've met these kids (as they wander by our home) several times, and yet have never heard of them having parents. The kids are nice, but this is just not the family atmosphere I want my son growing up in. We are quickly becoming a neighborhood of unattended barking dogs left outside for hours, and petty break ins that are drug motivated. Many people are fleeing to neighboring communities, before it gets even harder to sell a home here.
So our dilemma is we only have so much we can spend on a home. Especially if our home does not sell for as much as we thought it would have when we bought it. So we are limited in where to go. Our original plan was to stay here, gain equity in the home, continue to save money, pay down debt, and move to home that fits our needs in a desirable town further from here. Moving in the spring means we are not in the position to do this.
Here's our options, I'm curious what you would do.
Move to neighboring town to the north, that has much better schools (right now). Homes are ok, definitely older with smaller property. Most of this town is in a flood zone (with serious Sandy damage) so it limits where we want to move. We do not want to take on a house that needs to be raised. This neighborhood is nice now, but most locals project it will decline as well once the current neighborhood we live in fills to the brim with problems and those problem spill over. Moving to this neighborhood ensures a nice school system now, but does not promise a future, and so moving again is likely. Also it is likely that house prices will decline in this town in years to come, not hold value or increase.
We are not people people. Living in a town that we will be up our neighbors rear will undoubtedly be an issue.
Move to other neighboring town to the south. This town's schools, while better than our current town, are not much better. This town is in a decline as well, and the same issues spilling into our town are causing issue in this one. With the mediocre school system and the house prices not holding value, this is not a long term move. We could easily get a bigger home and property here because its in the decline. The areas of this town that are nicer neighborhoods, people usually send their kids to the private school. Having 4 kids at $10,000 a year for each...there's no way we can do that. Our kids will have to go to public school. I have seriously thought about homeschooling because of this issue, but DH is not keen on the idea.
Or we can move into the neighborhood we wanted to originally, ONLY we'd be lucky to find a very poorly maintained house that will be quite small for our family. Even buying a home comparable to our current home in this neighborhood is not possible at all. The schools are very good though the town to the north seems to have the edge when it comes to schools. And this has the possibility of "up grading" in the future, in other words we can move in the future to a home that better suits our needs, while still staying in the same town and school district. The only issue is, until we sell our home we wont know if that's even possible (to buy in this town). Also to be honest DH and I are not happy about squeezing our family into a home that's even smaller or is falling apart. I think the bigger issue is falling apart. Even a well cared for 2 bedroom in this town can be out of our price range. The more affordable homes are hard to come by and not in good shape and often need tons of updating in term of oil heating or AC, or electrical work if the home is old enough. This town will likely hold or increase in home value.
It sounds like no matter where we move, we are going to be looking to move again in maybe 4-5 years. So there is the issue of a house not losing value. Also, it really upsets us that our kids are going to be starting a new school next year THEN again in a few years if we move again.
What would you do? Do we cram everyone into a tiny house that is in poor condition for better schools, or do we buy a decent (normal size, not falling apart, but SMALL property) home in a currently good neighborhood with good schools that will likely decline in the future? It seems like where ever we go, we don't want to stay there. Which is fine for DH and I but I hate switching the kids to another school again. We are really torn.
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 10-11-2014 at 03:32 PM.
If you move into a neighborhood that you know is almost certainly going to go down in any of the markers of life quality, in a few years you're going to be in a worse position than you are now. There is only one rule in real estate, location. You buy a small home in a solid neighborhood and downsize your life.
As someone who lives with no kids and lives in a 3 bedroom, 2.5 bath place, this is going to sound odd but I think there are many factors but size isn't really one of them for me. In my area, the place we chose was one of the smaller options without going into a condo. Houses around us are just huge and it was difficult to find a place that was in the location that we wanted but not a condo and not a huge house.
And as someone with no kids, I'd say that I'm not an expert but I know quite a few teachers and it seems that schools seem to matter less than things like parent involvement.
Having said that, we are still feeling the effects of the recession even though things are slowly improving. Chances are prices for homes in your target area are cheaper now than they will be in a few years. If your goal is to move, even though you have no equity where you are at now, it is probably still one of the best times to buy where you'd like to live.
If you move into a neighborhood that you know is almost certainly going to go down in any of the markers of life quality, in a few years you're going to be in a worse position than you are now. There is only one rule in real estate, location. You buy a small home in a solid neighborhood and downsize your life.
Absolutely, location is #1 priority especially if you plan to move again. You don't want to lose money. I know pretty large families that make it in smaller homes. The kids have to share a room with bunk beds but they make it work.
I'd love to be in a house again (I live in a 2 bedroom condo since 08) but I figure why get into another 30yr mortgage when at some point it will be just the two of us. In 10 years my son will be 22. I hate the thought of being an empty nester but it's inevitable. So we decided to stay put and save our money for retirement rather than put it into a higher mortgage for more space that eventually we won't need.
Go with the best school district, especially if there's a possibility down the road of getting into a larger house without changing schools. It's dicey to plan another move in 4 years because you may not be able to move when you want to (housing prices, the economy, the area, your own personal situation, etc.) & you could be stuck for ten years in the next house.
This is an incredibly hard decision, but the kids' welfare is most important. Not just better schools, but peers and role models you want them to have. Peace of mind.
We were faced with similar decisions. What happened (1) the first house in a changing area took years to sell. (2) We then overpaid for an older home in a good school district. It sometimes rankled we could have had a newer, bigger house cheaper, but it was the best decision. Never regretted it!
I don't have kids, nor plan to. When I buy in the next 3-4 years, it will be primarily location. Location is based on both rural/lack of neighbours (we're loners), and price. The more north we go, the cheaper and larger the property. Mind you, I don't work and my bf works from home, so we have that luxury of moving to hermit-land since we rarely leave the house and neither of us have friends/close family to visit. We are willing to downsize to a smaller house for the location we want, because we want to be on/near a large fishing lake.
My view is that you can always drive your kids to better schools, you can always make additions to your home, but you can't move your neighbours or improve your location without leaving. I personally would focus on the land/location, even if you do plan to move because you want a good re-sale value, plus you want to be happy for 5 years.
I would homeschool where you are now while you get finances and plans in order. That way, you are not rushed by a specific deadline and if/when you put them into school, it will be a single transition.
Biased because we homescool our four kids and love it.
GG, this is the first time I've had access to a "real" computer (read, has a keyboard) and I wanted to expand on my first post. You see, hubby and I are in EXACTLY the same position as yourself, except we are empty nesters. I bought my house over 20 years ago, I got it for $100k when it was listed for $110k and thought I got a good deal. There is a house literally three blocks down the street from mine, IDENTICAL in design, it has been sitting on the market for over seven months listed at $95k. This is the standard in this neighborhood. Basically, the market never recovered from the collapse. We are surrounded by foreclosures or properties short selling (tax records are very easy to search in this state) and the crime rate slowly is creeping up. The schools are cutting everything, the ratio of teachers to students is going down, and yet our taxes keep going up.
I've refinanced this property three times (dropped the interest twice, removed 1st husband from deed final time). It won't be paid off until 2033 and even if we are still alive we can't afford to live here because the taxes alone consume too much of our, by then, fixed income. We cannot afford to live here if my husband retires, period. And honestly, I didn't like it here much to begin with, I despise it now. I come home from vacation and am deeply saddened to see my house is still standing.
We know we have a house worth virtually nothing, despite the fact it has a new furnace, a new roof and a new outside sewer line. We also know in a few years when my husband retires we may very well be facing a situation where we walk away. I live in a really big rental with no landlord, that's how I look at it. We plan to buy another home first, it's going to have to be cheap, carry two mortgages while he's still working, then try to sell this house. We're going to wipe out my husband's retirement fund to pay off all debt and put the down payment on the new house. We have to move somewhere that we can afford to live out the rest of our lives and our choices are limited.
My point, I cannot emphasize it enough, do NOT buy in a neighborhood you know isn't going to be getting better! I had NO idea when I originally bought this house how badly the neighborhood would go down (I had a feeling, but ex husband was adamant about where he wanted to move and he thought it was a wonderful city to live). If the kids have to double up (or more) trust me, they'll live! I mean, my mother was born in 1936, she shared a bed with her sister, that was the norm once upon a time. How much stuff does a kid REALLY need?! Let's be realistic here. We over indulge our children in terms of space. When I moved out of my mother's home I think I had one garbage bag of clothes and maybe four document boxes of stuff, that's it.
Thank you all for your replies. It seems the resounding message is location.
RenewMe, I am exactly worried about what you are describing. If we were to stay in this house another 20 years we would undoubted lose value. The crime rate around here is going up and the schools systems down. I get scared because the area I live in used to be one of the nicest places to live! The other neighboring towns that are also in decline, trust me, no one would have ever thought this would happen here. Now though it is becoming a reality that these areas are going down. I worry that even the nice towns will someday fall to the same pattern. Even the very nice town that we hopefully can buy in (however in a small small home) is predominantly older people, not families. This town is being crowed in the shore areas with problems just being sown. It seems that ever since hurricane sandy, the once elite shore properties have lost value, not entirely, but there has definitely best a lose of market demand for many of those areas that say were upper middle class beach homes. Now those areas are seeing an influx of a vagrant population and increasing population that are creating an extra burden on the schools and community. So many of those homes were vacation houses for people, and those people, from what I understand were given nothing from FEMA because it was their second home. The population is changing basically. And so is the towns. Many people once their kids go off to college or move out are leaving our state, the high taxes, its so expensive to live here, and forget retiring here. This was once a place for growing families, but it seems that it no longer the case.
We will have 4 kids come spring. We have a 3 bedroom now, and we see nothing wrong with the kids sharing rooms. We currently have a family room which we call the extra living room and have commented on the absurdity of it. DH and I grew up very poor and living in apartments, sharing rooms...there were no dens or family rooms...We entertained the idea of the right 2 bdrm, if we could put up a wall and turn it into 3 rms. Unfortunately right now there seems to be the same 2-3 house on the market, and we hope after the holidays it will pick up.
We are nervous about selling our home. We are afraid we will lose money and we will have only been here 3 years by the time we sell. Also if our home sells for considerable less than we are expecting, we will not be able to more to the nice town, not even in a cardboard box. It will be completely out of our price range.
I think that is my biggest worry. If that happens that means we are stuck with either the currently declining town (that it a bit better than ours) with mediocre schools, or the other town with is ok right now with good schools but expected to follow suit and decline in the future since it boarders our current declining town. Either way we will end up moving again. Either way we risk losing money on the house we buy. But if we wait here until we are financially able to move to the nicest town (maybe 3-4 years) then we keep our kids in a declining school, live in a declining town, and keep losing money on the house.
Last edited by GlamourGirl827; 10-13-2014 at 05:36 PM.
You know in the situation you describe, renting sounds like a good option for a couple years. Since you expect that the areas will continue to decline, it might be wise to try to find a place to rent. Craigslist generally is a good place to go for home rentals but there are other places you can look as well.
I agree about the renting. My bf and I are currently renting a house, that, btw, has been on the market for THREE years and has no interest...we will rent for another 4 years until we have our downpayment saved and have the time to look for a place where we want to live permanently.
Renting can be pricier sometimes, but it might be a good idea.
I would homeschool where you are now while you get finances and plans in order. That way, you are not rushed by a specific deadline and if/when you put them into school, it will be a single transition.
Biased because we homescool our four kids and love it.
I think I might start a new thread on this because my interest in homeschooling comes from the district being awful but also my son particularly has very individual needs that the school flat out says they cannot address. He is highly gifted in reading and math and is well above grade level. They told me this in an effort to justify not giving him services in OT and speech, saying he doesn't need it if his reading and math are good. He has Aspergers so its not uncommon for these kids to be highly gifted in some areas and struggling in others. I will say I have heard a better district would do better at addressing his needs, but right now school is a waste of time for him. He says he hates it. I hate that school. But I'm terrified to homeschool. How well do those kids transfer back into public school if he decides to do that when he gets older? Do they have a fair shot at college? Can they sit for the SATs or other standardized tests? I have a lot of concerns.
I picked up this book from the library and never looked back. It is a "teenagers guide" but really about all ages and school from the start. http://www.amazon.com/The-Teenage-Li.../dp/0962959170
The teenage Liberation handbook: How to quit school and get a real life and education. By Grace Llewellyn
We started with an online public school at home but then discovered "unschooling" a type of homeschooling/parenting philosophy that is very respectful to children. Anyway, our oldest is 13 now and it's all we've done. We've absolutely loved the freedom and ability to take adventures whenever we want. The homeschooling community is booming and, via facebook groups, activities are available all the time.
Eta...I see we have the same combo: 3 boys and then a GIRL. You are going to love having your girl. It's a little surreal the first year.
I'll have to look into that, thank you. Its a very lightly thought idea right now. You didn't mention how your kids will transfer into a college from homeschooling? How do you show progress and grade point average? Is there still standardized tests that your kids have to sit for to satisfy state regulations?
I would love to allow my son to move forward from what they are doing now. He has said to me he should be in 3rd grade. And he should for reading and math, and he knows it. He is basically ignored because of his giftedness. Public school is all about the test scores, and as long as a student is not reflecting poorly on the school (bad scores) then actually challenging them does matter. The kids only need to put forth the bare minimum. Its pathetic really. He has so much more potential. Not to mention all the time wasted on stuff he knows would be better spent on writing and OT therapy, something he needs to improve on.
I hate the public school system, at least ours has been awful. I just don't want to ruin his chances to attend a great college and I'm afraid if I homeschooled, I'd do that. I don't know how much homeschooling is respected among universities.
Your opinions on how you rank a place to live:neighborhood, schools, house/land size
I think there are many factors but size isn't really one of them for me. In my area, the place we chose was one of the smaller options without going into a condo. Houses around us are just huge and it was difficult to find a place that was in the location that we wanted but not a condo and not a huge house.
