Organic or not?
 

I'm wondering if anyone else is buying a lot of organic food and produce like I am? I buy organic anything that I consume raw (lettuce, spinach, fruits) unless it has a thick skin like banana or avocado. I don't touch apples or strawberries unless they are organic. Something about watching people harvest strawberries in hazmat suits really scared me and it's on the top of the top 10 list to buy organic. Organic dairy of course like eggs and milk I only buy organic. I buy organic frozen vegetables too and keep lots of frozen peas and green beans around at all times.

Also anything that grows in the ground I buy organic so potatoes, onions, carrots, celery must be organic. Other things are hard to find organic like tomatoes and most everything else is too expensive to buy organic but I try when I can.

Most things I buy for my toddler are organic too like his cereals and oatmeal and legumes. I cook from scratch at home and we don't do processed foods.

I never buy farm raised fish and when I can afford it I buy grass-fed beef. I only buy organic chicken because the non-organic chicken smells funny to me. I'm really lucky that I live in a neighborhood where I can walk to the grocery, farmers market, several vegetable markets, fish monger, italian specialty store, butcher, since I boycott large super mega stores.

I also walk to the market every day after reading the book "French Women Don't Get Fat" and it keeps me active and buying fresh food every day. Yes it's a little more expensive to shop like this but it keeps me eating fresh food and being active every day. I also like to cut spending in other areas.

It's kind of the norm around my area and within my circle of friends but I have gotten criticism from some that I waste my money on organic. I don't know, I figure I spend the money where I think it's important and cut back from things I don't need. A lot of this has to do with having a kid and wanting him to get full nutrition out of the small amount of food he eats. Any other organic freaks like me out there?

Count me into the organic freak club! ;) Hehehehe! I do my best to buy organic and it gets super pricey but I think that with food, you either pay now for healthy food or later for medical bills. I've read that organic produce contains more nutrition so aside from the pesticides, that's another advantage.
Another reason to buy organic is to avoid GMO's. We were not intended to mess with nature but companies like Monsanto have and do and they get away with it because of their power and mega $.

I get not doing it if you can't afford it. Hey, we all do the best we can. What baffles me are friends that I have who buy handbags for thousands of dollars (each!!!) and refuse to buy organic, even just for their kids.

My parents think organic foods are all a complete scam and maybe it is, but unless someone gives me some evidence of that fact, I'll keep wasting my money. ;)

I'm the same :) I buy organic everything when I can! Sometimes money doesn't let me get everything but I do my best. The hubby and I made a garden this year too so we're going to have lots of veggies this summer plus leftovers I'm sure that I'll be able to cook up and freeze!

I have a lot of criticism too about what I buy but too bad :P You're the one eating it and as long as you're happy with the choice then that's all that matters :)

I belong to an organic CSA which supplies me with fruit & vegetables 9 months out of the year. I love it!! This week was organic rhubarb, spinach, salad greens, basil, thyme, mushrooms, and rainbow chard.

Mostly organic here too, and working toward growing a lot of our own from heirloom seed. I am a bit of a food activist (kook, conspiracist, tinfoil hat, etc) and am pursuing a raw-milk source and evaluating the idea of raising chickens. Criticism doesn't bug me at all; people are entitled to have their own thoughts and some even learn eventually. ;)

Like you, I'm trying to raise a healthy kid with healthy skepticism for our advertisement- and profit-driven Standard American Diet and to appreciate time spent getting his hands dirty in the garden, and the glorious simplicity of whole foods.

Organic here, but with an understanding that "Big Agra" organic sometimes means very little. Grocery store organic eggs are a really good example - "cage free" usually doesn't mean what it sounds like it should. But we're loving our beyond-organic CSA share so far this year, even if I've got more radishes than I know what to do with. :)

Lately I'm more concerned with how what we put on our skin and what we live around can be much, much more toxic and dangerous than eating some non-organic food. No artificial perfumes in this house, most cleaners and things are the baking soda/vinegar-type homemade variety, and very minimal/carefully chosen cosmetics or other things that go on the skin. But trying to avoid chemicals can feel like such a battle.

Our biggest eye-opener lately has been how toxic most furniture is, due to very poorly written flame re*tardant requirements that the tobacco industry of course mucked up. Some pretty nasty chemicals can be measured in your blood at really high levels - just from sitting on furniture!! And it's almost impossible to buy something like a couch that hasn't been doused in the stuff. It's so scary and so awful that a) these poisons are so pervasive and b) it feels almost futile/impossible to try to be an informed consumer and avoid them. The safe options are extremely rare and very expensive. Gah.

Back to the original question - no, I don't think spending money on organic is necessarily wasteful. Sounds like you're doing it right, OP! Sometimes people just automatically buy something that says "organic" and assume it's good, regardless of processed or whatever it is. You sound like a discerning mom!

Well I'm lucky in that we have a few grocery stores that specialize in organic produce (that is all they carry) and their prices aren't too much different than a normal grocery store non-organic. The prices are way above the asian grocery stores but I haven't been happy with produce in the past there so that is ok. I buy organic mostly because I like the grocery store and it may be a little pricier but it isn't outrageous.

Do you need to buy all organic produce? Not really. Does it hurt to do so? Not really. I don't buy any animal products so that isn't a concern of mine.

We don't buy organic.

I don't believe that organic offers much if any benefit over non organic. Granted I haven't spent a lot of time researching but the two big differences seem to be that organic means non GMO and that the pesticides used are not synthetic.

I think GMO is bad for several reasons but how it affects my health is not one of them.

I don't know that natural pesticides are any less dangerous than synthetic pesticides.

My friend eats only organic and one of his favorite products recently has been frozen organic berries from Costco. He is a little freaked out right now.

I'm not sure how much stock I put into the whole organic movement, but I generally don't buy it because I seriously can not afford to. I'd rather get a good amount of non-organic fresh produce so that I can eat fresh fruits and veggies every day than a small amount of organic produce and be stuck with starchy foods for the rest of the week.

As an aside, DH is a firm believer that organic foods taste better. We did a double blind taste test using organic vs non-organic bananas of the same ripeness, and we actually both picked the non-organic bananas as the better tasting ones. I've got to admit, I gave him a little bit of a hard time about it, but now we aren't spending as much on bananas ;)

Taste does have a lot to do with it and like you say, there is little difference in bananas because their thick skin does protect them somewhat. But you can't get me to drink non organic milk or berries, sorry. I definitely understand if people can't afford it. I can, but not because I'm rich - but because that's what I slate for good nutritious food and I do curb my spending in other areas. I don't give too much credence to brand name labels in clothes for example.

Let's be fair now, just because of this does not mean that ALL organic products are not safe. Lots of outbreaks have occured in things like melons, lettuce, spinach, peanut butter, all non-organic. A contamination has nothing to do with whether or not something is organic?

I only eat fresh berries, to tell the truth I'm not a fan of frozen berries but my son sure is. I put them in his oatmeal all the time.

Have you seen the documentary "In Organic We Trust"? It addresses the idea as to whether or not "organic" is healthier or not and also how it's used often as marketing technique among other issues... Definitely might be worth taking a look at... I found it pretty interesting...

Same here.

I also can't afford to buy organic. I have to cut corners ANYWAY just to afford the amount of fresh food we like to eat, which includes shopping at Aldi, PriceRite, Asian grocers, etc. Whenever I get a single item at Stop and Shop or another big name grocery, I'm shocked at the prices. A head of non-organic cabbage for $2.50? :?:

I am personally an organic, non gmo eater. I think the people that give you hassle over spending your money on organic may not be well educated on the subject. I have my research and my beliefs but I would suggest doing your own research on the matter. So when someone is trying to dispute your decision you will have knowledge on your side. There are many accredited studies and research groups dedicated to the effects of being organic. I think you will find that with research, you are making a good choice for yourself.
I would also research possible side effects caused by pesticides ... I'm sure you have heard of agent orange, which isn't used in the US anymore but it doesn't mean that it isn't being used on produce being imported from other countries.

Hope this helps! :)

Also, if you are shopping locally, sometimes it's a good idea to research why a farm may not be organic. Even if the farm doesn't use pesticides but they are within a certain distance from a farm that does use pesticides, they cannot be qualified to be organic. But if this is the case, the produce would not be absorbing the pesticides through the soil.
...just an additional thought for you.

Totally agree. Organic or not - you can have something very bad happen with produce. That was my point, not that organic was unsafe.

Got any links? The limited research I've done says the opposite of what you're suggesting but I'm always interested in learning more. Also, you mention pesticides. Organic farming uses pesticides - they just use organic ones. I assume you're aware of this but your posts makes me question if you do, or not.

[/QUOTE] Got any links? The limited research I've done says the opposite of what you're suggesting but I'm always interested in learning more. Also, you mention pesticides. Organic farming uses pesticides - they just use organic ones. I assume you're aware of this but your posts makes me question if you do, or not.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I was misunderstood. I am not saying that there is any difference in the nutritional value between organic and non-organic. The difference is that we are ingesting poison with non-organic, and yes, organic farmers use natural organic pesticides which, from what we know now, are not harmful to us... But that could change with more research. In addition, the USDA doesn't place any limits on heavy metals, contamination of pcb's, bpa, and other synthetic chemicals and does nothing to address the environmental sources of pollution. Reasons like these are why I think people should do their own research, because there is never a defining answer. You just have to get all the information you can and decide for yourself. The absolute best food to eat, obviously, is from your own backyard but that is a high-maintenance leisure.

Oh, I have no links but there has been a lot of research under the mayoclinic, there are some good journals such as the "international journal of food sciences and nutrition", journal "food quality and preference", there are also some decent articles in the Wiley online library.

Hope this starts you off on some good reading. :D

Well organic doesn't mean 'no pesticides', it just means that the pesticides have to follow certain guidelines. So treat your organic food as you would any other food, wash it well.

I'm guessing the food I've gotten at asian markets is pesticide free because I've seen enough bugs in my food from there :) I don't shop there any more for other reasons but also the food quality started dropping in general.

The food industry is a cause particularly close to my heart. I take great interest in it. This TED talk touches is on one aspect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA Of course if you google TED talks about food you'll find dozens of great lectures about this sort of thing.

The movie Food Inc. was especially detrimental in opening my eyes to the food industry process.

yikes i eat a LOT of strawberries a day and not organic. they're costly. idk.....

The difference is that we are ingesting poison with non-organic, and yes, organic farmers use natural organic pesticides which, from what we know now, are not harmful to us... [/QUOTE]

With respect - organic pesticides are not harmful to us? This is far from true.

Your other points about the food industry are valid but actually have nothing to do with organic vs non organic.

[/quote]
With respect - organic pesticides are not harmful to us? This is far from true.

Your other points about the food industry are valid but actually have nothing to do with organic vs non organic.[/QUOTE]

You should look up actual pesticides. The difference between a pesticide such as agent orange (which is so poisoness it was used as a weapon during the Vietnam war, and the few veterans still alive are consistently suffering from a drawn out death), and a natural pesticide like pyrethrin which is derived from the pyrethrum plant IS the difference between non organic and organic when it comes to produce. Agent orange is not used by ANY farmers in the US today but we still import from countries that do. I didn't mean that natural pesticides cannot be harmful but there aren't really any conclusive studies. And when given the option between the two, it's obvious that natural is far better for the human body.

To be honest, I'm not longer interested in convincing people to choose organic (those who can afford it, of course). To me, it's a personal choice and it makes sense. I'm going to look up that documentary mentioned (In Organic We Trust) because it does sound interesting.

For example, I'm kind of amazed at how many lipsticks contain lead. There are no acceptable amounts of lead we should be exposed to and yet women put it on their lips on a regular basis. Same thing goes for anti-persperant. It contains aluminum as the active ingredient to prevent sweating. Aluminum is one of the worst known neurotoxins but we are all being assured that it's perfectly fine and safe.

Same goes for Gatorade having some horrid chemical and a little girl went on to prevent it from being used in this country. I'm not sure if it took effect yet or not because I wouldn't drink that stuff anyway, but it just goes to show you. Nobody is really looking out for us. We need to do what makes sense for us. It IS annoying and a bit of a battle to live with less toxins, but everyone should do what they think is right.

Sorry for my little rant.

"With respect - organic pesticides are not harmful to us? This is far from true."

Got any articles/links?

My fiance works at an organic orchard...and he's never had to wear a hazmat suit to work.

In fact, the primary pesticide they use is made from dried Chrysanthemum heads. Far cry from DDT. lol The primary fertilizer they use is what I shall refer to as fish soup, basically decomposing fish. :)

I have children that are VERY synthetic chemical/flavoring/dye sensitive. Conventional berries give them hives. Organic ones do not.

Needless to say... we avoid GMOs like the plague and I buy organic whenever I can.

Big mega-farm organic is very different than small farm organic, and many organic pesticides are as dangerous or even more so than many non-organics. I'm convinced that small farm non-organic is far safer than mega-farm organics.

I suspect that mega-farm organic is marginally better than mega-farm non-organic, but that neither are better than small local farm products.

Whenever I can, I will buy small local over mega-farmed whenever I can. In the summer months, it's often even cheaper. I favor the Hmong vendors because they tend to favor traditional farming practices and grow heirloom varieties. You can see that they do not use pesticides, because you'll see where insects have nibbles here and there on leaves. I don't trust the local certified organic farms because there's no sign of my little taste-testers doing their job. I feel that if a bug won't eat it, maybe I shouldn't eat it.

I have read a lot of the comparison research and I'm convinced that the difference between mega-farm and small-farm is much greater than between organic and nonorganic, especially since many small farms would qualify for organic certification if they could afford to apply. Instead, the save themselves and their customers the expense.

I think the nutrition and health-risk difference between mega-farmed organic and standard mega-farmed produce is rarely worth the added expense. Small, local, certified organic is high quality, but very expensive. Whereas small, local, non-certified is often cheaper and of higher quality - and you can find organic grown without pesticides just by asking the vendors a few questions (and by using your eyes).

Another plus with local growers is they're often extremely proud of their growing and harvesting methods and will gladly discuss them. I started gravitating towards the asian vendors because (at least in my area) they're very proud of the fact that everything but the heartiest vegetables and fruit are picked the morning of market ( and you can usually tell).

For me local trumps certified organic every day. I'm not convinced though that mega-farm organic is any healthier than traditionally farmed mega-farm produce.

Good points! I totally agree. Monoculture factory farming is the big problem, here! We shop local farmers markets and use a CSA. Some of the things are not 'certified' organice, but don't cause my kids problems, either. I love being able to talk to the farmers about their produce. They are always so proud! It turns food buying into a whole different experience :).

I think if you liked "Food Inc." I think you would like "In Organic We Trust"... and a lot of it was filmed here in NYC... Some of it at farmers markets (Union Square... still one of my favorites), they also visit a school that is using organic ingredients in the school lunches, and a community garden in Brooklyn that grows organic vegetables and has paid internships for NYC high school kids... and the kids get to take home some of the vegetables they help grow... It was really nice to see...

"I'm convinced that small farm non-organic is far safer than mega-farm organics."
That's how I feel too. Safer and better for the environment as well.

"Whenever I can, I will buy small local over mega-farmed whenever I can. In the summer months, it's often even cheaper."
This has been my experience too. I mean, I won't sugar coat it, I'm pretty poor...my honey does work on an orchard after all, and I'm a student...not much money there! :) When it gets to be this time of year especially, it's cheaper for us to go to the farmer's market. If you buy a lot of meat, I can see how it would be more pricey...but produce is actually pretty dang cheap at our local market.

Hubby and I have friends who recently switched to organic-only and because of their tight budget, are eating fewer fruits and vegetables, than before they made the switch.

I think moving to all-organic is not a good choice if it forces one to eat fewer or a lesser variety of fruits and vegetables.

I believe that the benefits of plentiful and varied produce also trumps organic. If you have the choice between varied and plentiful produce and limited amount and variety of organic, plentiful and varied should win out. I think plenty of nonorganic mega-farm produce is probably better than eating little produce because you can't afford to buy organic or because local is too expensive. Buy the best that you can afford plenty of. If you can't afford plenty of small, local, organic, buy whatever allows you to eat a healthy quantity and variety of produce.

I haven't read through the whole thread but organic here, especially local, is insanely expensive....I often go to farmer's markets here when I have the money because I want to support local growers and I love the produce but holy cow!

last weekend I spent $22 at the market and came home with a tiny bag of cherries, 3 peaches, 2 apples and 2 oranges....the cherries were $9-something per pound :(

Pick a link.

I'd really like to learn more about this so a good science based links are always appreciated. It's like any subject - people have their own strong biases and tend not to be fair in their assessments because of it and being fair minded doesn't get web hits. Poloarizing views get ranked higher on searches...

I think that Kaplod's says it best (again) that it's more about large scale vs local and sustainable than organic vs synthetic materials used.

I've done a lot of reading and thinking about this issue. I came to the same conclusion as John -- that are biases on either side drive so much of it and it is VERY difficult to get good information. It's the same for GMO foods if you ask me...

When I first got into gardening I wanted to go organic and began looking at organic pesicides/fungicides. It was hard to get the kind of information I wanted about the dangers of each type. I eventually decided that for my own garden I would use NO pesticides of any kind because the organic pesticides do have consequences. Let the bugs have some!

And I don't buy only organic produce. I'm just not convinced that the value outweighs the costs in many ways.

But I do look more and more toward humanely raised chickens for my eggs, and cows for my milk and moving more toward buying meat that is raised more humanely. Here I think I might get more value for my money. For instance, I don't want to eat chickens raised their whole lives in a stressful environment...

I also agree that local and known sources of food may be better in the long run than a label like "organic" that doesn't necessarily mean I know how the food was actually treated.

Here in NY farmers markets can get expensive. Even in the summer I cannot afford tomatoes from the farmers market. I mean, 4 tomatoes for $10????

People will end up doing what's important to them and if I can afford to buy organic then why not?

I buy as much locally grown food as I can in the summer at farmers markets. I don't know if this is really so much about my own health as it is about family tradition and supporting my community, however. Farmers markets are just a way of life around here. I also get a lot of produce from the gardens of my family. I'm working on one for myself next year.

Also, luckily, one of the local supermarkets here sells some locally grown produce. My other produce, however? I don't buy it organic at the supermarket. I've not found what I feel is a very clear answer to the question of its health benefits, and I feel like some of it may be some hype. So, I just don't do it. Plus, I want to be able to afford an array of fruits and veggies.

I do believe in buying some typically processed foods that are organic. For example - tortilla chips. I regularly buy blue corn organic tortilla chips. They're not much more money, and I feel much better looking at the ingredients list.

I try to support local, small companies. To me personally, the economic and political issues of big business v small outweigh other considerations. I have not been in a Walmart in well over 10 years. We grow, can and freeze a lot of produce, hit the local farmers' markets weekly, and grocery shop at locally owned markets (the main one is an 8 store local chain). The decisions on what we buy and where we shop are probably as varied as everyone on this forum!

All of this. Too much in life to worry about and not enough budget for it to make sense for us. We all die of something, and if pesticides do me in they can put on my tombstone that I died of salad overdose :carrot:

Last I checked ricin, cyanide, and hemlock are all plant based, too. Doesn't make them less toxic. Logical fallacies abound here - the poison is the dose, not the substance, and that goes for ALL substances including water and oxygen.

I get all my produce from a "beyond organic" farm. I know the farming practices of the people that run the operation (they are a client of mine, as well as good friends now), and I trust them the most. I want my food to be non-GMO and pesticide-free, and that's what they do at the farm. They do some companion planting and grow things that are more pest-resistant. I also share in a communal garden with some other friends so I can have more veggies to preserve as much of my share as I can for off-season meals. Additionally, there are a lot of fruit trees on my parents' property that I can have. The rest of my produce I buy with at least the organic label. Yes, I'm spending more, but I don't care to support big-Agra if I can support it.

I am blessed to live in Central California. I can source all sorts of organic stuff fairly locally: nuts, dairy, soy-free eggs and poultry, grass-fed meats, fruits.

I do have wild-caught fish plus grass-fed meats and fats shipped to me. This is where I spend more money for my family's diet. I don't spend money on a lot of other stuff. I live simply but eat well.